cce 266 and N/M=5 problem

[jorel]

i'm loading a simple .avs script in CCE 2660107 and
the default value of N/M is 5.
after i encode a movie,
i take the .mpv with or without pulldown and load in tmpgencdvdauthor and got:

the video gop is too long!
for a standard dvd it is necessary that the gop fulfill the following condition:
max 36 fields (18 frames) (ntsc format only)
max 30 fields (15 frames) (pal format only)

using N/M=4 i don't have problems but i have doubts:

all the guides that i read and after days searching in the forum,
i see that N/M=4 is used in CCE 250 .
i don't see anybody that is using or any guide recommend to
change the value to 4 if you is using the 266 or new versions.
and i all foruns that i ask, everybody that have 266 version don't have
any problem using N/M=5.

i have CCE250 and works perfect with all
dvd2avi projects used in CCE266 . (all versions are trials)

please,
all hints and help are welcome.
my sources are ntsc, and i try using movies and animes...
just the same problem,no matter the source.

thanks in advance!
:)

[Kedirekin]

What do you have M set to? The defactor standard is 3.

4/5 will give GOPs that are 20 pictures long, which is too long. 4/4 (16 pictures) would meet the standard, but it just sounds so wrong. 3/5 and 3/4 are the only settings I've ever used.

[jorel]

Originally posted by Kedirekin
What do you have M set to? The defactor standard is 3.

4/5 will give GOPs that are 20 pictures long, which is too long. 4/4 (16 pictures) would meet the standard, but it just sounds so wrong. 3/5 and 3/4 are the only settings I've ever used.

i was unclear in the post, see more details:

i'm using "video seting mode" MPEG2(ES,One-pass VBR
with Q=(from 15 to 40), min=300, max=5000 :
M=3, N/M=5 and SEQ header to 1 in CCE266 i have the problems posted and
M=3, N/M=4 and SEQ header to 1 in CCE250 or 266 and don't have problems.
--->i don't know why CCE266 give me problems using N/M=5!

from the doom9's guide "Getting the best out of CCE" :
"Set the N/M parameter for the GOP sequence to 4 and leave M to the default of 3 or your authoring program will complain. Also make sure that SEQ header is set to every 1 GOP and leave the other two options unchecked."
but seems only for CCE250!
i don't find nobody using N/M=5 in 266 with problems!
i don't change anything more, only the N/M to 4,
the remainders adjusts are (seems) "default".

do you see something wrong in the adjusts?
thanks again (and for the hints too)
:)

<edited>
i was forgoten:
using version 250 in dvd2svcd works perfect
but don't with 266 version!
:confused:

[Kedirekin]

Sorry, but I haven't used 2.66.

Does 2.66 provide a graphical representation of the GOP? For example, 2.5 displays IBBPBBPBBPBB at the top of the GOP dialog. If it does, you might want to count how many pictures your setting corresponds to. Perhaps the meaning of N/M or M changed from 2.5 to 2.66 - not likely I know, but worth checking.

Anyone familiar with 2.66 have any ideas?

[jorel]

ok Kedirekin...checking...

i did a screenshot (print screen) from each version.
just the same in 2.50 and 2.66 with N=3,N/M=5 and SEQ header 1 .

Gop sequence /IBBPBBPBBPBBPBB/IBBPBBPBBPE
M=3
N/M=5
SEQ header. every 1 GOP(s)


changing only N/M=4 in 2.66 version show differents "values":

Gop sequence /IBBPBBPBBPBB/IBBPBBPBBPBB/IE

do you see something wrong ?

[Kedirekin]

No I don't see anything wrong. I count 15 pictures with 3/5.

If I had to guess at this point, I'd say it must either be you can't use 3/5 for a pulldown stream, or that TMPG DVDAuthor has a bug. In either case, if it were me I'd just stick with 3/4 for 24fps video.

It's strange that you don't get the same error messages when you encode with 2.5 though.

[jorel]

Originally posted by Kedirekin
No I don't see anything wrong. I count 15 pictures with 3/5.

If I had to guess at this point, I'd say it must either be you can't use 3/5 for a pulldown stream, or that TMPG DVDAuthor has a bug. In either case, if it were me I'd just stick with 3/4 for 24fps video.

It's strange that you don't get the same error messages when you encode with 2.5 though.

oh..i see (i think):
i'm trying to understand the sequences of B and P in the "Gop sequence".
i'm reading the cce pdf but your first phrase in this post have more "light" for me
that the complicated explanations in the cce pdf.
but i'm not sure if i understood the sequences.

seems that you can guess and guess right:
i did a dvd2avi project.
my source is (from dvd2avi statistics window) :
aspect radio 16:9
frame rate 29,970
video type film
frame type progressive

then forced film was used but
i'm not using the cce pulldown.
if needed, i did a .bat file using the sample from doom9 guide:
pulldown D:\dvd\1.mpv D:\dvd\1.m2v
and is saved as pulldown.bat...just double click and the pulldown is done.
a question:
can i stay using 3/4 if my source is ntsc 29,970 like this source?

about the error message:
yes, really strange cos using version 2.5
(that i have for more than a year)
works fine, never give me any problem.
i'm trying the 2.66 version cos is faster
and i'm afraid to download the 2.67 trial
(if i find it somewhere)and get the same error.

thanks in advance again Kedirekin, you are helping me a lot!

:)

[Kedirekin]

When you use FORCE FILM in DVD2AVI, you effectively change the framerate to 23.976 fps. The 'video type FILM' in the dvd2avi stats window means the underlying video stream is really 23.976 fps and it has RFF (repeat first field) flags to make it play back at 29.97 fps. It's hard to explain, but to put FORCE FILM into words - 'ignore any pulldown RFF flags in video stream, and on portions of the video with no RFF flags decimate 1 frame in every 5'.

When you run pulldown.exe, you are effectively doing the opposite. pulldown.exe inserts RFF flags to effectively change the video framerate from 23.976 fps to 29.97 fps. It doesn't change the actual number of frames (pictures) in the underlying stream, but players (and apparently TMPG DVDAuthor) treat it as if there were more.

Since using FORCE FILM effectively changes the framerate to 23.976 fps, I'd say it is appropriate to use 3/4. In truth, you should be able to use 3/4 or 3/5 no matter what the framerate - except of course the DVDAuthor is giving you grief.

[jorel]

Kedirekin,
i knew that forced film change the framerate to 23.976 fps.
the remainder details i knew too but not so deep like you posted!

and you wrote :
"It doesn't change the actual number of frames (pictures) in the underlying stream, but players (and apparently TMPG DVDAuthor) treat it as if there were more."
and
" Since using FORCE FILM effectively changes the framerate to 23.976 fps, I'd say it is appropriate to use 3/4. In truth, you should be able to use 3/4 or 3/5 no matter what the framerate - except of course the DVDAuthor is giving you grief."

are you a chess champion?
checkmate!
:)
you got the king and his kingdom.

thank you very much Kedirekin, you're great!
:D