Capturing TV - should I deinterlace before burning to DVD?

[lchiu7]

I capture quite a bit from TV using either a DC10+ and Hauppauge WinTV PCI card. I capture in 720x576 (PAL) in MJPEG format using PIC. I have noticed that if I just encode the resulting avi file to mpeg2 with no post processing and burn to DVD when played on my DVD players to a TV, I can see interlace problems during movement (wavy lines etc.) Not sure why given the output device is interlaced (no such lines when playing either the mpeg2 file or the burnt DVD on my PC using PowerDVD).

Have experimented with deinterlacing the video before burning using either the option in Mainconcept or using a virtualdub filter and framserving to MC and it seems to do the trick but it's a tedious process.

Any other things I could try? Should an interlaced video file need to be deinterlaced before being authored to DVD?

Thanks

[Swan]

Any other things I could try? Should an interlaced video file need to be deinterlaced before being authored to DVD?

Since you capture at 720 x 576 PAL interlaced and plan to put the material on DVD, you should not deinterlace. It will degrade quality, especially if what you captured was originally shot interlaced, meaning it's not a movie where the conversion from film to TV-broadcastlable material was made through 25 fps speedup, so both fields contain the same info.
So generally, no, do not ever deinterlace for DVD, it will ruin your material.

The fact that you see interlace lines on the authored DVD puzzles me. The only times I've seen that is if I acidentally resize the 576 resolution (anything below 576 does not maincontain interlace).
It could also perhaps be a problem with Mjpeg codec you're using, the way it encodes the interlaced video may be bad (if it slaps the two field together to one frame) or something like that would explain why you see the two fields as one on the TV.. Can you try to capture using a different codec, like HUFFYuv and encode that to Mpeg-2 and put on DVD? For testing purposes?

/Maria

[avih]

swan, good to see u again :)

[Arachnotron]

I may be completely off, but doesn't the DC10+ have a problem with swapping fields?

[scharfis_brain]

I've seen some DC10 - Drivers only be able to capping cropped PAL, meaning having only 760x540.

Thus, the encoder will resize 540 to 576 making interlacing visible as moving weaves on TV!

[henasau]

Hi Swan,
I am capturing from an old VHS-C and video 8 tapes and then converting to a DVD to play on a standard DVD/Tv setup.
I am capturing Pal 720x576 and then resizing to 521x384 to get 4:3 ratio.
Is your answer in the previous post still relevant for my scenario?
I think it is. I just would like to make sure.

Thanks

Henryk

[bb]

Originally posted by lchiu7
[...]Should an interlaced video file need to be deinterlaced before being authored to DVD?[...]
1. Make sure you have 576 vertical resolution. If you need to resize vertically, you have to separate the fields, resize the fields, then weave again (can be done in AviSynth).
2. If the source is originally progressive (e.g. Hollywood films), then you should remove the phase-shift, if present (preferrably using the Telecide filter from Donald Graft's Decomb package). Encode as progressive MPEG-2 in this case.
3. If the source is truly interlaced, you can either deinterlace and encode as progressive MPEG-2 (losing quality), or encode interlaced MPEG-2 (preferrable, at least for DVD; low bitrate encodings such as SVCD may be better with the deinterlacing approach).

bb

[bb]

Originally posted by henasau
[...]I am capturing from an old VHS-C and video 8 tapes and then converting to a DVD to play on a standard DVD/Tv setup.
I am capturing Pal 720x576 and then resizing to 521x384 to get 4:3 ratio.[...]
Why do you resize to 521x384, and how do you play this weird resolution on your DVD player? I assume you resize back to 720x576 before encoding to MPEG-2.

As your source is probably interlaced, you should not deinterlace, but encode interlaced instead. Make sure you set the field order correctly.

bb

[henasau]

Sorry my mistake 521x384 is typo mistake in fact I resize it to 512x384
to get 4:3 standard TV ratio and this is my final resize.

Captured Hufyuw Avi I am encoding with VirtualDub 1.5.1.0/ Frame Server
and TMPGenc combination to mpeg2.

Is this correct?



Henryk

[Swan]

@ avih Thanks! Good to see you too.. ;)
@ Henryk
Yes, this is relevant for you also. Ass BB pointed out: *Do not resize* from 720 x 576 when making DVD, there's no point in doing so. If you touch the 576 resolution, your Mpeg-2 video will no longer be interlaced (a resolution of 576 is required to support interlace). And besides, why resize when 720 x 576 is already DVD-compliant and will give you a perfect AR from your source material, unless your capturing device screws up something.
There's no reason to resize, it will only increase the time it takes from VHS to DVD, your project will take longer from start to finish. 512 x 384 is not DVD compliant, so I don't understand how you can put your encoded video on a DVD.

[henasau]

I followed capture/conversion guide from this site.
Obviously I become confused somwhere on the line.
I tried to maintain 4:3 = 1.33 ascpect ratio.
720x576 is 1.25 ratio ???
The way I did is perhapse correct
for DVD's played on the computer screen. :confused:

There's no reason to resize, it will only increase the time it takes from VHS to DVD, your project will take longer from start to finish. 512 x 384 is not DVD compliant,

I have to crop my video from 720x576 to 709x570 to get rid off all the black lines. After that I will resize it back to 720x576 using precise bicubic.
Am I going to have the the same problems as discribed above and loose quality.

Henryk

[bb]

Originally posted by Swan
[...]If you touch the 576 resolution, your Mpeg-2 video will no longer be interlaced (a resolution of 576 is required to support interlace).[...]
In fact it is possible to resize to different resolutions while keeping the interlaced structure. To achieve that you need to separate the fields, resize on field basis, then weave together again. Of course the problem remains that resolutions other than 576 (except for 1/4 D1) are not PAL DVD compliant.

@henasau:
720x576 will be resized during playback, either to a 4:3 or to a 16:9 aspect ratio - provided that you use a software DVD player. In Windows Media player with an MPEG-2 DirectShow filter you most probably won't get a correctly resized playback.

If you burn your 512x384 MPEG-2 file to a DVD video disc, your authoring / burning program will reencode the file, which costs much time and degrades quality. Which authoring / burning program do you use?

If you burn a 512x384 MPEG-2 file on a DVD data disc (DVD-ROM format), then most DVD players will refuse to play your video. There are some players out there that support arbitrary MPEG-2 file playback, though, e.g. Cyberhome CH-402.

Regarding the cropping: If you want to crop vertical black bars, it's best to capture in a higher resolution, so that you don't need to upscale. I use 768x576, crop, then downscale to 720x576.

bb

[henasau]

Which authoring / burning program do you use?
Nero 6

Other problem I am having is the picture quality
I just captured small clip from my VHS-C tape.
To capture the video I play my VHS=C tapes on the standard VHS VCR using the tape converter/adapter.
I captured with VirtualVCR using recommended resolution 768x576.
I just published three consecutive pictures on the web
http://www.abcembroidery.com.au/storage/capture.htm
Problem shows as kind of wobbly lines or stair case(in horizontal lines)
Problem shows the most in all vertical lines.
As example look at the window in the middle on the ground floor.
What can cause this kind problem.

Henryk

[Kika]

I use 768x576, crop, then downscale to 720x576

Autsch / Ouch

Then it's better to use 704x576 and letterboxing it to 720x576 without any resizing.
Or, if you need to crop horizontaly, use 768x576, crop, then downscale to 704x576.

The AR of 704x576 is equal to 768x576
The AR of 720x576 is equal to 786x576

[Inc]

@Ichiu7

Beside a 7134 Philips Card I also got a DC30 which is handled by a DC10 driver.
The driver ONLY permits non cropped PAL as 768x576, 384x576 or 384x288 ... smaller resoluitons do come from wrong PAL croppig settings in the driver, so don't do that.

I never had a field issue when using the DC Card, but maybe you did set your DECODING mjpeg codec wrong (as the DC Cards do have a mjpeg hardware codec)?? So Whichcodec do u use for decoding? Pic Video?(this one got an option for swapping the fields, but I never had to use it)