(post renamed) audio files and remux/ authoring with ReJig

[James Kiehl]

Folks,

First off, thatnks for all the help so far. I've done my reading, and I think i have a very basic knowledge of what the deal is. Here's the thing:

I have a home movie of a firends band that someone else produced into a dvd. I would like to add another sound source to the video and either tear out the original or mix it way down (and use it to synch up). I have two different problems.

1) When i use dvdecryptor to extract the VOB files, everything looks OK. When i use tmpgenc to demultiplex, everything still looks OK. When i go to remultiplex the video stream to mpg so i can edit it with my Roxio movie creator, the process will run, but the resulting video will produce an error message of "unsupported or corrupted file".
Same thing when i remultiplex it into mpeg with the native audio. What could be going wrong?

2) the new audio source is tracked out into songs, and although i can merge them, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to synch a file that isn't the EXACT length of the video.

Thanks everyone, hope this helps someone else, too...
Jim

[Amnon82]

I think we need more information about the source we're dealing here.
Is it PAL, or NTSC.
What is the Audiotype? AC3, PCM or MP2?
Try Rejig for demuxing Your movies.

Start ReJig.
Choose filemode
Add the first VOB-file. (All other will added by ReJig).
Select the stream You want to demux.
Demux the other streams.

Remux the M2V-file with the new audiostream. You can also use ReJig for this. IFOEdit is also usefull. With it You can author DVDs or get information about the source we're dealing here.

I hope this helps You.

[Dimmer]

@James Kiehl
Welcome to the forums.

1) Seems like you're doing a lot of extra steps, especially if you want to keep the video track intact. For one thing, I wouldn't expect a home movie to be encrypted, so there is no need for DVD Decrypter. Instead, I suggest you open VTS_01_1.VOB in VobEdit (ReJig will do, too) right from the DVD, click Demux, check Demux all Video and Demux all Audio, and save the output to HDD. It will rip and demux entire titleset at once. Repeat this only if you have other VTS_0x_1.VOB files on the disc, i.e. more than one titleset.

If you just want to replace a sound track, there is no need to load the files into Movie Creator or other video editor.

2) You'll have to trim your new sound track to the exact length of the video and sync it manually, otherwise how would you expect it to work. Try cutting out little pieces from the beginning or the end of the sound track to get it in sync. If it helps, you can cut the video track into songs using MPEG Tools - Merge&Cut in TMPGEnc and sync each song separately. Then merge the soundtrack and mux it with the original video if your desired output is an MPEG file.

If you intend to make a new DVD, a professional authoring program like Scenarist could make your job easier, even though the program itself might seem hard to learn. There you could add more than one sound file to a video track including tiny pieces of silence if required to fill up the space when audio is shorter than video. In this case, you can work with one long video track. If the sound is longer than video, the program will trim it down. In the latter situation, I'd suggest splitting the video into separate tracks for each song.

Good luck

[James Kiehl]

Originally posted by dimmer
@James Kiehl
Welcome to the forums.


2) You'll have to trim your new sound track to the exact length of the video and sync it manually, otherwise how would you expect it to work.
Good luck

I was actually hoping for a visual editor to see the waveform and video, so i could lay song by song over the video chunks which are probably 8-10 songs without having to merge the audio files. I read that DVD lab allows unlimited additional audio, so i thought that might work to add the tracks just the way i have 'em and insert silence where need be.

I was also hoping for a time-travelling hovercraft and backstage laminates to GD Summer tour 1974, but that's probably asking just a bit too much.

Thnaks again,
Jim

[Dimmer]

Not sure about visual audio/video editor, but here's an idea. If both of your sound tracks are different mixes of the same audio, you can open the old track and the first song of the new track in separate windows of an audio editor that displays waveform. Sync them according to the waveform and add the silence if needed. Then add the second song at the very end of the first one, and go on until you make the second track exactly the same length as the first one.

One program that could do this is Nero WaveEditor that comes with Nero. It allows you to cut and paste sound fragments and insert more than one audio file.

It's true you can add both of your sound tracks to DVD and switch between them using Audio button on the remote.

[James Kiehl]

Dimmer,

That is a great idea. I have all the stuff i need to do that on my desktop right now. Thanks a bunch. Even though i can do that, i probably would not have thought of exactly that anytime soon.

Thanks,
J----

[Dimmer]

You're welcome, glad I could help.

[James Kiehl]

OK, not out of the woods just yet.

I tried opening the vob files from the G: drive (DVD burner)in ReJig. It automatically adds the others like you said. WHen i try to demux, nothing happens.

OK, so i copy the DVD files to my HDD cuz, like you said, they are not protected since they are a home movie. I then use ReJig, add the files, and demux. I get a pcm file. I then use BeSweet to convert pcm to wav. It looks like it works, but the resulting wave files are incredibly noisy with a faint audio track.

OK, so i try BeSweet from VOB to Wav directly, but when i add the file as input, and choose an output, nothing happens.

Can anybody please help me out some more here? I'm beginning to feel like i'm missing something huge.

Thanks,
Jim

[Dimmer]

Yes, the thing you're missing is that PCM and .wav is the same thing. You don't need to convert them. No need for BeSweet.

I suggested VobEdit over ReJig because ReJig has too many options that may confuse you. In VobEdit, you just open the first VOB file VTS_01_1.VOB and click Demux to get all the video and audio streams at once rather than one by one. In case you have VTS_01_0.VOB on your disc, that's a menu, you'll have to deal with it separately. If you don't have a menu, you can later re-author your DVD by putting the streams back together using ReJig or IfoEdit.

[James Kiehl]

OK, thanks again. Since last time i was here, i was able to do this:

1) Drag the .vob files onto my HD,no extraction needed.
2)Use tmpgenc. Choose MPEG options. choose de-mux and actually see all the streams (ie not simple demux option). I had to browse for the file and choose "display all types" as vob's do not show up by default.
3) Double click on the audio file and demux it as ac3.
4) use BeSweet to go ac3 to wav.


Now I can use my audio editor (Audacity) to load the .wav file from the original video section, overlay each individual song aligning it with the original track, mute the original track (except for gaps in the original) and re-mux (i hope) with tmpgenc.

OK, almost there, but i'm interested in your solution from the last post.

-"PCM and wav are the same" but none of my audio editors will load PCM and they all load wavs.

Any help there?

Thanks again, I hope someone could follow this and learn something, too.

-Jim

[Dimmer]

Originally posted by James Kiehl
-"PCM and wav are the same" but none of my audio editors will load PCM and they all load wavs.Where did you come across the word PCM? Maybe you misread something. PCM stands for Pulse Code Modulation, which is a type of audio encoding, and .wav is a common extension for the files of that kind. Same as Dolby Digital is an audio encoding standard and .ac3 is a file name extension.

Be careful with TMPGEnc since in can handle only one VOB file at a time. You can demux with it successfully if you have only one VOB on the disk, VTS_01_1.VOB. Otherwise, you'll have to use VobEdit or ReJig to demux the VOBs.

You positively won't be able to re-create VOB by simply muxing it in TMPGEnc. For that, you'll have to re-author the DVD. IfoEdit or ReJig are most simple programs for this task, as well as TMPGEnc DVD Author.

[James Kiehl]

Hmmmmmm.



PCM was the file extension on the file after demuxing. That's where i came across that.


As for tmpgenc, i was able to demux 4 vob files from the same disc, so maybe you are familiar with an older version or something.

As for re-muxing, if the audio is the same length as before, and only a single track, wont the menu still recognize the vob? I don't see why re-authoring makes a difference, but i'd appreciate the help.

Jim

[Dimmer]

That's right actually, ReJig demuxes PCM stream into the file with .pcm extension that doesn't play like a normal .wav and can't be used as is to re-create the DVD. Maybe someone else could clarify that or you can search the forums. VobEdit demuxes PCM stream into a regular .wav file.

Not sure whether you're still talking about the same DVD since you have suddenly found an AC3 audio there.

As for the rest, you've got a lot of reading to do. Didn't you notice, for example, that after you demuxed 4 VOBs in TMPEnc you ended up with 4 pairs of audio/video files and wouldn't you rather have your entire video and audio each in a single file? When you're demuxing in TMPGEnc, you must have noticed a private stream; it's not a junk, it's what makes DVD different from a simple MPEG file.

So, I suggest you first try to make at least one DVD with one video and one audio track. Once you've done that, try authoring a DVD with two selectable audio tracks. That's a whole new ballpark since no cheap software would allow you to do that, only serious at least semi-professional programs and freeware like IfoEdit. When you succeed at that, it would be time to get back to your original project. And when doing your research and experimenting, remember that authoring is what you should be focusing your efforts on.

[James Kiehl]

Right. Authoring. Now that i can deal with the audio, I am ready.

"you've got a lot of reading to do" about what, specifically?

I didn't state clearly...the pcm was from rejig, and the ac3 was from the tmpegenc. Don't ask me why they are different.

"Didn't you notice, for example, that after you demuxed 4 VOBs in TMPEnc you ended up with 4 pairs of audio/video files and wouldn't you rather have your entire video and audio each in a single file? When you're demuxing in TMPGEnc, you must have noticed a private stream; it's not a junk, it's what makes DVD different from a simple MPEG file. "

Yeah... that's what demuxing is, right? You must be suggesting that it would be nicer to merge the vido, audio all together. I can do that, i think, with tmpgenc. Not sure what i'm supposed to gain from this one. Can you explain? Or are you just trying to imply that a vob is a combination of audio and vido? I get that.

I don't want two selectable audio tracks. I just want to mix the two i've got with my audio editing program and remux as one video and one audio together. That is within the scope of the stuff I have aready done. The only catch is that once i have several re-muxed vob files i need to author. Not a huge deal, right?

I know this is complicated, but it is not rocket science. Thanks for the help so far.

[Dimmer]

I believe it would be good for you to learn a bit about DVD structure and authoring. To get you started, here's a nice link (http://www.dvd-replica.com/DVD/index.php), besides this site of course.

Okay, if you open your VOB in TMPGEnc in De-multiplex window, it will show you type and birate or your audio, as well as video.

VOB files are more than just audio and video. Do me a favor, demux your VTS_01_1.VOB with VobEdit, check out the results, and let me know if you feel the difference. So far, you don't have any re-muxed VOBs, you have re-muxed MPEG files. In most cases, it's a waste of time to re-mux them since the authoring program will do this for you properly anyway. I suggest you trying TMPGEnc DVD Author, it's a very simple to use yet reliable authoring program.

And you totally right, if you just want to have one audio track, it's not a rocket science, and it's not at all complicated.

[James Kiehl]

OK, man, I appreciate all the help.

Gimme a break, though. Just tell me what you want me to see. I didn't "feel" any difference. I understand that a VOB includes audio and video. If there is more, just tell me what you think i should know, cuz de-multiplexing is splitting audio and video.

As for remuxing not ususally being appropriate, why do all of these programs offer it? Who uses that?

Finally, I don't have a re-muxed anything yet. I have not merged the audio yet, so I haven't even tried it.

[Dimmer]

Originally posted by James Kiehl
I understand that a VOB includes audio and video. If there is more, just tell me what you think i should know, cuz de-multiplexing is splitting audio and video.

As for remuxing not ususally being appropriate, why do all of these programs offer it? Who uses that?

Finally, I don't have a re-muxed anything yet. I have not merged the audio yet, so I haven't even tried it.Correction - de-multiplexing is splitting streams, which in VOB files could be audio, video, subtiles, and more. Re-muxing in TMPGEnc is very useful if you want to make an MPEG file to watch it on your computer, but it won't help if you want to author a DVD. Without going deep into details of DVD architecture, I can just tell you that if you rename .mpg file to .vob and put in on a DVD, it won't work. As a side note, there are many cheep players like Apex that would play any file on any non-standard disc; they would open a simple browser where you can select files and press on them just like in Windows explorer. Such discs would not qualify as DVD-Video.

Anyway, if you demuxed each VOB separately in TMPGEnc, each file would end at a random position, in the middle of the song or anywhere else. Moreover, if you still manage to sync and mux them separately, there is a chance that audio will go out of sync after you merge them back together. I'm suggesting demuxing with VobEdit so you'd have only one pair of audio/video files to work with rather than performing the same process four times for each VOB.

And what I'm saying is that you should go ahead and try creating a DVD, everything will become more clear to you.

[James Kiehl]

Great. Thanks for the clarification, i truly appreciate it. Well, I'm off to do some authoring, so let's leave this one rest for a while until i dream up some more challenges.

Dimmer, thanks a bunch. I'm still a newbie, but this puts me quantum leaps ahead of where i was two weeks ago.

-Jim

[James Kiehl]

Folks,

OK, Thanks for all the help so far. Here is the story in a nutshell ().

Here it is in words:

I have demuxed the audio stream successfully. I have converted it to a wav succesfully. I have used a multitrack editor to make it sound like i want while retaining the original length of the audio track.

Two problems (probably just one problem twice).

1.) I used BeSweet to convert from wav to ac3, and it transcodes and i can see from the dos window that it is working and the pop up error report says that the conversion is successful. When i hit the "Play AC3" button, nothing happens. No error, no lockup, nothing is happening. So i can't actually listen to the resulting file to check it.

2.) I tried re-authoring with ReJig, and i was able to use the ac3 once and the wav source one (single audio track, only) and get a vob that will play from my HDD, but in both cases the sound is nothing more than intermittent pulses of static.

Can someone help me out here? I'm so close........

Thanks!
Jim

[killingspree]

do you have ac3 filters installed?

anyway, you can definitely play an ac3 file by opening it in powerdvd or windvd, by just dragging and dropping it!

about 2): well, i've never used ReJig so i can't really tell, but actually it doesn't make sense arguing about it before you do not even know if the resulting ac3 file is working at all!

cheers
steVe

[James Kiehl]

should i have the filters, or not? i don't think i have them, unless i could have them and not have known about it.

thanks...

[Dimmer]

Here's an idea. If you positively can't make AC-3, encode to MP2 (MPEG-1 Layer 2) instead. It will be just as good (or as bad) in terms of quality if you use the same bitrate, usually 192 or 224 kbps for stereo. There are many programs for that besides BeSweet, such as TMPGEnc. You won't have problems playing it with any software player.

[killingspree]

Originally posted by James Kiehl
should i have the filters, or not? i don't think i have them, unless i could have them and not have known about it.


well if you have any software dvd player installed you should have at least some.

have you tried dragging and dropping?

other method: download ac3filter 0.70b (http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Filters/ac3filter_0_70b.exe) (if the link doesn't work because of the anti- leeching software, go to doom9.org > downloads and search for ac3filter!)

cheers
steVe

[James Kiehl]

OK, i can try another format, but that stilll doesn't so much for my authoring problem.

I have a music file that i can listen to in wav format, so for problem # 2 it isn't a matter of having it in a listenable form, but rather getting the authoring program right.

Thanks,
J----


By the way... i did try dragging and dropping, but it did not work.

[Dimmer]

You have to try authoring with another audio format first (preferably wav or at least mp2). If ReJig doesn't work for you, try IfoEdit - the process almost the same. If you authored a DVD with a playable audio file and it still doesn't sound right with both ReJig and IfoEdit, only then it would mean you have authoring issues.

[James Kiehl]

OK, here's the scoop. I finally used IFOedit and was able to successfully merge the audio and video. It was very simple, actually, and the whole process, now that i have done it once, is not outrageously hard. Unless you have never done it.


Thanks for the help so far. One question, probably for Dimmer.

Is there an advantage to using ac3 vs wav for my source audio? In this particular case, it is stereo two track. What other times is it preferable? (I guess what I'm really asking is for some insight on general audio stuff). Link 'em if you got 'em..

Peace folks, thanks again for all the help.

J----

[Dimmer]

Originally posted by James Kiehl
Is there an advantage to using ac3 vs wav for my source audio? In this particular case, it is stereo two track. What other times is it preferable? (I guess what I'm really asking is for some insight on general audio stuff). Link 'em if you got 'em..Yes, there is one major advantage - AC-3 takes much less space than .wav. Also, standard .wav can only be stereo while AC-3 could be up to 6 channels. However, AC-3 is a lossy compression while .wav is an untouched original audio.

[James Kiehl]

Thanks. The lossy part is what i wanted to confirm. have you been a music taper in the past? or do you know about audio compression from some other route?


Anyway, thanks again to everyone, esp Dimmer.

Jim

[Dimmer]

@James Kiehl
You're welcome.

Yeah, I liked taping music in the old days. Now I can't even imagine how poor the sound-to-noise ratio was on all those analogue recordings. Anyway, when it comes to sound quality, there is one more intermediate option between wav and AC-3: DTS, which takes half the space of a .wav file while carrying six channels. Again, lossy compression. DTS soundtrack is considered a must-have for a good concert DVD. There is not many DTS encoders around though.

[Malcolm]

Originally posted by Dimmer
That's right actually, ReJig demuxes PCM stream into the file with .pcm extension that doesn't play like a normal .wav and can't be used as is to re-create the DVD. Maybe someone else could clarify that or you can search the forums. VobEdit demuxes PCM stream into a regular .wav file.

I haven't checked, but i'm pretty sure that the .pcm files are the raw PCM data without the WAV header. Just as MP3 files consists of the raw MP3 data. And yes, MP3s can be stored in .wav files.
There are tools that can add WAV headers to .mp3 files and also to strip the WAV headers off.
There are also audio editors that can open raw PCM files. Cool Edit for example.
Maybe there are also some tools which can add WAV headers to .pcm files!?

Greetings,
Malcolm

[James Kiehl]

OK, here's the deal.

I am trying to get the opportunity to film a local band. I think i will have a few cameras to get the video. My problem is the audio. Now that i know about ac3 and DTS, i need to figure out how to capture the sound in multi-track format. We can get a stereo source from the soundboard OK, and do a stereo (although it's pretty much mono) audience recording. This could serve as enough to edit into seperate channels, but i probably have access to the soundboard all the way, if i can figure out what to use to capture different channels of the board.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

-Jim