lossless codec for VFW and Quicktime?

[hanfrunz]

Hello,

i'm looking for a lossless video-codec that works for VFW and Quicktime. The only solution i found is to im-/export PNGs or TIFFs. There is a PNG-codec in QT, but it can not import files encoded with corePNG. Huffy would be my favourite, but there is no QT-version :(

any ideas?

hanfrunz

[LigH]

The only shareable lossless format may be the uncompressed one (either "BMP" or "none", not really sure about that).

There are other probably shareable, but not lossless codecs; but maybe not so lossy with high bitrates. E.g. DV may not be enough?

[hanfrunz]

Hi LigH,
no DV is not enough... It's possible to take a mjpeg codec (Matrox or PICvideo) with high bitrates. I tried the lossless-setting in the matrox-codec, but quicktime can't read it, only if there is compression :(
Another problem is that all the solutions i have found (png, tiff, etc.) only work in RBG. YUY2 would also be nice. Has anybody here ever codec a QT-component? Maybe it's possible to port Huffy...

hanfrunz

[LigH]

Most probablynot! How much do you think would someone have to pay for being allowed to use the QuickTime SDK to build a QuickTime codec? Too much...

I tried to search with Google for "quicktime vfw portable lossless codecs", but without success; maybe you have more luck in spotting a useful site, or in finding a better search phrase?!

[hanfrunz]

mmh are you sure, how much does it cost? Maybe it's not that expensive and a couple of forum users could spent a little money and one of the gurus codes it? Or maybe it's for free, if the codec is freeware.
Maybe...

hanfrunz

[hanfrunz]

Hello,
i found a very interesting project on sourceforge:

qtcomponents (http://qtcomponents.sourceforge.net/)

maybe that's a point to start.

hanfrunz

[LigH]

"MNG" is something like "Motion-PNG", probably comparable with the technology inside CorePNG (but most probably not with the bitstream); "Animation Shop" (an additional tool in Paint Shop Pro) shall support this format as pure file, but not inside AVI.
__

There is a QuickTime 6 SDK for Windows (ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/QT6SDK_Win.hqx) available (stored as BinHex archive: *.hqx; you may need the "Aladdin StuffIt Expander (ftp://ftp.aladdinsys.com/pub/)" to decompress that, if no usual packers support that). I'll try to look throug it, if there is anything included that looks like a codec skeleton...

[hanfrunz]

Hi LigH,

there're some samples here:

apple-samples (http://developer.apple.com/samplecode/Sample_Code/QuickTime.htm)

[LigH]

Yes - thank you for this hint.

There is an Example Codec (http://developer.apple.com/samplecode/Sample_Code/QuickTime/Codecs/ExampleCodec.htm) skeleton.

I know that some people are reviewing the HuffYUV codec (e.g. discuss problems like such that some people cannot capture with version 0.2.2 anymore). Now that examples are freely available, it should not be su hard for experienced coders anymore to make a QuickTime codec version of their VfW codecs.

I just wonder what people like sh0dan or ChristianHJW now think about the possibilities...

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by LigH I just wonder what people like sh0dan or ChristianHJW now think about the possibilities... MOV/Quicktime is a competing multimedia framework to matroska/Gstreamer, so pls dont. expect me to push the coding of QT codecs ;) ....

[hanfrunz]

@ChristianHJW

That's true, but how should users of avid nle's for example get their data to matroska, if there's no lossless-codec that the windowsworld can open? :sly:

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by hanfrunz @ChristianHJW
That's true, but how should users of avid nle's for example get their data to matroska, if there's no lossless-codec that the windowsworld can open? :sly:

The goal is to make gstreamer the first real x-platform multimedia platform, available for Windows, Linux and MaxOSX. The 'codecs' for gstreamer are called 'plugins' , and can be ported also, so that they will be available for all supported platforms.

Again, this is the goal, but we need much more help from the community to achieve this. As always, we know we have to launch 'something basic that works' , like a simple encoder tool with avisynth input, a FFMPEG or XviD encoder and some working output modules ( MKV, OGM, MP4 ) to raise the interest of the community in what we are doing ...... but thats nothing new, we know that people tend to underestimate what a small group of dedicated people can do, and in their spare time, that why currently everybody goes MP4, until they will recognize how wrong they were to help the MPAA to enlarge their power ;) ....

[LigH]

And how far is this goal away, dear Christian? Next Month? Next Year? ...

And how long may it take to port a codec meanwhile?

If people may decide between "better" and "soon available", what would they prefer? I would not bet a cent on either side...

[wave]

what about alparysoft lossless codec?
it works in real time and they have both dshow and vfw versions.
as i remember there was a discussion abt its imperfections, i should say guys released new versions on-the-fly.... nd lately, though time-lagged, new version showed up compressing in realtime...
why not e-mailing to them with request of qt-version ??

[LigH]

They have a VfW version? That's rather new to me - when I heard about this one, the only had a DS codec.

But I'm afraid that this one may not be freeware? ... Ah, it is, but they want registration?! Nah, to be able to send me SPAM... No, thanks.

[wave]

Originally posted by LigH
They have a VfW version? That's rather new to me - when I heard about this one, the only had a DS codec.

But I'm afraid that this one may not be freeware? ... Ah, it is, but they want registration?! Nah, to be able to send me SPAM... No, thanks.

As I known, this codec is freeware for noncommercial purposes.
as for spam i'm sure it's not worth being scared of it :-) being registered at their forum i got just three press-releases during 3 months'period...

[LigH]

Okay, nothing to be too scared about; but already I have a good choice of many loslessly compressing codecs for VfW (HuffYUV, VBLE, LOCO, FFV1, CorePNG, ...), most of them even are available as source, so I won't really need a registered codec only as one more of so many. If it will be available for QuickTime once, then maybe...

[bond]

just stumbled over this too

actually i would need a lossless or uncompressed video format which works on both, any windows platform (vfw, dshow or whatever) and quicktime

any idea? :(

[Manao]

H264 lossless ? If QT supports it ( which alas, i doubt )

[bond]

H264 lossless ? If QT supports it ( which alas, i doubt )nope doesnt

[LigH]

AFAIK, QuickTime can be read via DirectShow if one of the "wrapper" filters by CyberLink (contained in the QT Alternative package), or Nero Digital.

Previous versions of QuickTime Pro Player were able to export AVIs with any QuickTime video codec. The latest version I have (6.5.2) restricts the codec selection down to a few, and here I found only one really lossless export format (video codec "None" - creates AVIs with FourCC "DIB "), but unfortunately it stored the wrong bit depth (24 vs. 32 bits per sample). :(

So, well - maybe better test DirectShowSource with a QT-DS wrapper filter.

Or another way: Try TMPGEnc Xpress 3 for reading QT movies, it might be able to export AVIs, too.

[bond]

well my problem is actually not about getting qt stuff to work on windows, but about getting my .vob resized and cropped into qt7 and encode there with its avc encoder

[Elias]

If I use lossless for QT, I use uncompressed RGB. That's the only one that works to my knowledge in QT.

[Sharktooth]

Consider not using QT at all and you will find a better and more cross-platform solution...

[Elias]

Consider not using QT at all and you will find a better and more cross-platform solution...Agreed.

[bond]

If I use lossless for QT, I use uncompressed RGB. That's the only one that works to my knowledge in QT.do you know how its possible to create such a file from a vob?

[SeeMoreDigital]

do you know how its possible to create such a file from a vob?Provided you have the necessary "QuickTimeMPEG2.qtx" component installed, it's certainly possible to load MPEG-2 (within .VOB .MPG and .M2V) into QT7

So far only been successful at getting QT7 to recognise the MPEG-2 element of the .VOB file, not the AC3 element..... as I think you need an AC3 component... Which I don't have.... yet ;)


Cheers

[bond]

i need to trim and resize the mpeg-2 video stream with lanczos resize, i doubt qt can do this

[bond]

ok thx to bullitB i found two solutions:

1) the sheervideo video lossless video codec is supported on both windows and quicktime
its available here (http://www.bitjazz.com/sheervideo/)

2) YUY2 in .avi is supported in quicktime 7 and can be produced via virtualdub 1.6.x (via the video -> color depth -> output format YUY2 option)

[LigH]

Another alternative way to 2:

AviSynth: ConvertToYUY2; VirtualDub(Mod): Video=DirectStreamCopy, Save as AVI

[bond]

Another alternative way to 2:

AviSynth: ConvertToYUY2; VirtualDub(Mod): Video=DirectStreamCopy, Save as AVIi think this outputs rgb by default!

[LigH]

"Video: Direct Stream Copy" outputs exactly the input, without any intervention by VirtualDub - if YUY2 comes in, YUY2 goes out. (Discovered this accidently once...)

A conversion to RGB would only be necessary for displaying the video in a preview panel, but while dubbing in DSC mode, there is no preview.

[bond]

"Video: Direct Stream Copy" outputs exactly the input, without any intervention by VirtualDub - if YUY2 comes in, YUY2 goes out. (Discovered this accidently once...)

A conversion to RGB would only be necessary for displaying the video in a preview panel, but while dubbing in DSC mode, there is no preview.strange, than why does virtualdub offer the option to choose the output format, which is set to rgb by default

might be that with some codecs it will feed them with what they need (eg what comes in), but are you sure this is also the case if you output real raw video?

[stephanV]

Method proposed by LigH will certainly work. Direct stream copy is what it says. if you do DSC on compressed video it wont turn it magically in RGB either right?

Color Depth is greyed out with DSC BTW.

[bond]

ah i overread the "direct stream copy", my method works with "full processing mode"

[LigH]

Be careful with "16 bit" in FPM -- you might get "High Color" RGB! :D

[Inventive Software]

Consider not using QT at all and you will find a better and more cross-platform solution...

Agreed. Use ffdshow and VirtualDub. Lossless PNG and HuffYUV are supported.

Why use QT? It ain't really suitable period.

[LigH]

Does AviSynth for MacOS exist?! ;)

Furthermore - if I remember right, bond wanted to compare a QT codec with others.

[bond]

indeed LigH :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Furthermore - if I remember right, bond wanted to compare a QT codec with others.Well for starters it takes much longer for QT7 to generate a comparable AVC encode than Nero or x264... and there's no option to include bit-stream AR signalling...


Cheers

[Steve56]

SheerVideo could be a good solution! They are also in the making of a SheerVideo Codec that works outside of QuickTime on the PC – as an AVI codec!

Steve56

[LigH]

Then this may become one of the first cross-platform codecs, where the usual "header exchanger" tools might be all you need to "convert" your files.

[Elias]

do you know how its possible to create such a file from a vob?Well, I used to do it in a very inconvenient way. I encoded everything like normal with GordianKnot, but instead of chosing XviD/mp3 as output codecs, I chose uncompressed RGB and PCM sound, then encoded to avi, and then opened the avi in QuickTime and re-encoded it to MPEG-4. It takes up huge amount of space doing it like this. I only did it with short files.

[SeeMoreDigital]

... I chose uncompressed RGB and PCM sound, then encoded to avi, and then opened the avi in QuickTime and re-encoded it to MPEG-4. It takes up huge amount of space doing it like this. I only did it with short files.If you install the MPEG-2 plug-in for QuickTime you wont have to do this. You can go straight from MPEG-2 in .VOB, .MPG or .M2V to what-ever formats QuickTime offers.... However, the plug-in can't read AC3 audio!


Cheers

[Elias]

If you install the MPEG-2 plug-in for QuickTime you wont have to do this. You can go straight from MPEG-2 in .VOB, .MPG or .M2V to what-ever formats QuickTime offers.... However, the plug-in can't read AC3 audio!Not only can it not read/encode AC3 audio, QuickTime has pretty bad resize filters. No thanks, I prefer my encoding with VirtualDub/BeSweet/MP4Box.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Not only can it not read/encode AC3 audio, QuickTime has pretty bad resize filters. No thanks, I prefer my encoding with VirtualDub/BeSweet/MP4Box.Absolutely!

[Inventive Software]

Here Here!

[bond]

2) YUY2 in .avi is supported in quicktime 7 and can be produced via virtualdub 1.6.x (via the video -> color depth -> output format YUY2 option)this was a little bit incomplete, as qt doesnt understand the "YUY2" fourcc virtualdub/m$ uses for yuy2 in avi

after converting your .avs to a yuy2 .avi you need to change the fourcc from "YUY2" to "yuvs" and qt will handle it nicely

note that the fourcc changer coming with xvid doesnt handle big avi files (eg 3 gb) so you might need to do this with a hexeditor