Need your help for a Anime-backup

[nanogate]

Hi there!
I'm going to rip a Anime-OVA-DVD.
So far so good the first 3 Episodes are really nice aimed at a total-zize of 175MB.
But the fourth Ep is a bit different coz there is a scene about 12 seconds and XviD gave them 10.000-12.000 kbps but the quality isnt really satisfying <--(I'm sure that i wrote it wrong). its preety much i think and you can notice a little noice in dark areas in the rest of the episode.
So what would you recommend for me?
I thought of a dirrerent zone-weight for the *criticalscene* to improve the bits of the whole movie a lot.
But I'm not sure if this will be ok.
I think when i increase the size to 233 the problem will have gone but then it wont fit on a cd.
By the way this is my script (I tried to remember it).

#start
Tweak(sat=1.2)
IT(fps=24,ref="top",blend=false,Dimode=2)
Crop(4,12,-8,0)
Trim(cant remember,cant remember)
Undot()
Awarpsharp(10,3,cant remember,cant remember)
Asharp(1.45,2.5,0.25,hqbf=true)
Convolution3d(1,11,15,11,15,0)
LanczosResize(640,480)
Dup(threshold=1.08,copy=true,blend=false,maxcopies=20)
Undot()
#end

I dont know if this is it but i think its almost so.
If you think some filters are bad or you know better settings pleaz tell.

[Leak]

Originally posted by nanogate
Hi there!
I'm going to rip a Anime-OVA-DVD.
So far so good the first 3 Episodes are really nice aimed at a total-zize of 175MB.

Ugh... I sure hope you mean 175MB *per episode* here...

Anyway, is the DVD really so awfully mastered that it needs that much filtering? Which show is it, by the way? And exactly what XviD settings are you using?

Also, how about burning it all to an 800MB CD-R and just using the 233MB file? (NB: I'm sizing my IVTCed anime encodes to fit on a DVD-R and until now I've always managed to do that... :))

np: Leftfield - Melt (Leftism)

[nanogate]

Ugh... I sure hope you mean 175MB *per episode* here...
Yes each episode

XviD settings are:

quant type h.263
adaptive quant =on
Qpel =on
BVOPs =on
(Max 2
quant 1.50
offset 1)
(othet stuff off)

Pixel shape 4:3

Discard firstpass=on
full qually first pass=off

Secpass settings:

Iframeboost=0%
Iframes closerthan 1 are reduced by 30%
Max overflow improvement=50%
Max overflow degradation=50%
High bitrate scenes =0%
low bitratescenes=0%
Overflow degradation strenght=10%

1 Zone: weight=1.0 -c

Motion search precicion=6
VHQ=4
Chroma motion=on
I-Frame interval=240
Cartoon mode=on

All quantizers 2-31
Trellis quantization=on

I think thats enough ^^


Also, how about burning it all to an 800MB CD-R and just using the 233MB file?

That would be fine i think. :)
But to be honest i would like to keep it 175Mb because i usually use 700mb cd.

Which show is it, by the way?
Its Hunter x Hunter Greed Island (i hope you meant that otherwise i didnt know what show means):confused:

[Teegedeck]

Well, one thing for sure doesn't belong in an Anime-encode: adaptive quantization. It doesn't look good with large, uniformously coloured areas.

As for the filtering, I agree with Leak. How about just removing a little noise? Of course this is just my personal taste (and some would strongly disagree), but overfiltering, and especially using the dup-filter, makes Anime look like a flash-animation. Which it isn't.


Iframeboost=0%
Iframes closerthan 1 are reduced by 30%
Max overflow improvement=50%
Max overflow degradation=50%

This doesn't sound good at all. Is there any good reason you're not using the defaults? I cannot imagine that I would use such unorthodox settings without making absolutely sure that they look better than what most people use.

Your use of B-frames is absolutely OK. (sic!)

Good luck with your encoding!

Tee

[Leak]

Originally posted by nanogate
Its Hunter x Hunter Greed Island (i hope you meant that otherwise i didnt know what show means):confused:

Nah, that's exactly what I meant - I was just curious if it was a show I'd encoded myself, but that's not one of them.

(Then again, I'd really like people who are posting screenshots to mention which show they're from, in case the series looks interesting... :))

Alas, I don't think I can help you much here, as my encodes of Last Exile disc 1 came out beautifully at 170MB target size - even the race episode that's got a lot of computer animation.

Exactly how does the encode look bad? Could you post a screenshot?

np: Metamatics - Byeway (Clan) (From Death To Passwords Where You're A Paper Aeroplane)

[crusty]

nanogate, could you describe the problematic scene, possible posting a few screenshots?

Teegedeck:
This doesn't sound good at all. Is there any good reason you're not using the defaults? I cannot imagine that I would use such unorthodox settings without making absolutely sure that they look better than what most people use.
They may be unorthodox, but apart from that I cannot see what's particularly wrong with them. Offcourse I do hope nanogate tried the defaults first.... :)

I would only set "Iframeboost=0%" higher than zero.

If the problematic scene starts off bad, and degrades only slightly, setting I frame boost higher might give better results.

You also might want to keep "Max overflow improvement" at default.

Using a 'more-weight zone' for the problematic scene might help, as you already suggested. Try it out.

[nanogate]

Sorry for being late but i'm not often online.

I finished all eps and did what you suggested.

In my problem i made a 0.15 weight-zone and it turned out in good quality.

I also changed my settings a little i removed one undot and lowered the convolution3d settings.

In xvid i turned off Afaptive quant and changed settings a little:
Max overflow improvement=5%
Max overflow degradation=5%
it looks a little better and I used the old settings because my hero 1 cd-rip wasnt that good with default settings so i thaught that would be the reason.
Semms like I have to test more.

Thank you for the advises :)

[Chainmax]

While we're at it, what do you guys think about QPel in cartoon/anime encodes? Good idea, bad idea or depends on the case?

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by Chainmax
While we're at it, what do you guys think about QPel in cartoon/anime encodes? Good idea, bad idea or depends on the case?
Its very subjective. BTW i dont use it. But i still use adaptive quantization with no problems.

some screens (Cowboy bebop):

http://ebola.gamersrevolt.it/cap01.png
http://ebola.gamersrevolt.it/cap02.png
http://ebola.gamersrevolt.it/cap03.png
http://ebola.gamersrevolt.it/cap04.png
http://ebola.gamersrevolt.it/cap05.png
http://ebola.gamersrevolt.it/cap06.png

NOTE: Average bitrate is 804kbps. I dont use sharpening filters when the source is not good, and this one (italian distribuition) is definatly not good...

Originally posted by Teegedek
Well, one thing for sure doesn't belong in an Anime-encode: adaptive quantization. It doesn't look good with large, uniformously coloured areas.
Are you sure? look at the screenshots.

[Chainmax]

Damn! Those screenshots look good.
About QPel, it's supposed to make a sharper picture, right? I guess that a sharpening filter can do it in a more appropriate fashion, at least for anime/cartoons.

Originally posted by Teegedek :
Well, one thing for sure doesn't belong in an Anime-encode: adaptive quantization. It doesn't look good with large, uniformously coloured areas.
How so? And what exactly do you mean by "using the dup-filter, makes Anime look like a flash-animation"? If you use a low threshold (like 1 or less), there shouldn't be that many duplicates, right?

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by Chainmax
Damn! Those screenshots look good.
About QPel, it's supposed to make a sharper picture, right? I guess that a sharpening filter can do it in a more appropriate fashion, at least for anime/cartoons.
Well QPel should preserve more details. The result is a sharper and more detailed image, but sometimes it doesnt look good and has possible negative drawbacks with standalone players.

Originally posted by Chainmax

How so? And what exactly do you mean by "using the dup-filter, makes Anime look like a flash-animation"? If you use a low threshold (like 1 or less), there shouldn't be that many duplicates, right?
Adaptive quantization tends to remove bits where details are less visible for the human eye so the codec could raise the bitrate in critical situations where more bits are needed. That works well for movies, but is not designed to work with anime or cartoons. However i still use it for them and you can see the result in those screenies.

[Joe Fenton]

Don't use cartoon mode on anime like GI. Cartoon mode is for CARTOONS like yogi bear or the Powerpuff Girls - no background, heavy lines, and flat coloring.

I don't use QPel on anime either. It doesn't seem to make a difference on or off, so I leave it off.

If your source is a good DVD or DTV, you don't need anything more than ITC and resizing. DOing all kinds of filtering and sharpening can actually make the encoding worse in many cases.

[jk888]

Is there a good matricies for anime encodes?

[malkion]

H263 is good enough for anime encodes. If not, I can also recommend the 3 HVS matrice.

[Chainmax]

It's kind of strange that this forum has so many anime/cartoon encoders and no one has felt the need to make a custom matrix for that kind of source material, isn't it?

[port66]

whats 2pass... download my settings on the below url. lil clip if you ever encoded the matrix, should be understandable

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by Chainmax
It's kind of strange that this forum has so many anime/cartoon encoders and no one has felt the need to make a custom matrix for that kind of source material, isn't it?
That's because there are existing matrices that work really good for anime/cartoons. For example H.263 and 6of9.

[Teegedeck]

@port66:

Thanks for contributing dedicated 1-pass settings, but excuse that I feel some comments on your post might be necessary:

1) Please write complete sentences, you're hardly comprehendable.

2) Please don't lure people into downloading and installing REG-files with settings that you haven't explained here; spell them out so everyone has a chance to evaluate them.

[nanogate]

By the way I accidentally used cartoon-mode for my backup of LotR - The fellowship of the Rings (2CD).
But the final was suprisingly good :)

[jang0]

Got a small question:

There is a "CG-Animation" matrix (bundled with xvid) and furthermore 2 different "Kika Trickfilm" matrices (hi and lo). Aren't those specialized anime matrices?

Or do you rather recommend H263?

[lordadmira]

Quarter Pel does it's best effect on credits. Credits that degrade or smear out without qpel will sharpen up dramatically and stay together with qpel active. It has the same effect on any text in the video. Text will be more readable. But if you don't have any/many qpel benefiting structures in ur video it'll just waste bits.

[lordadmira]

Originally posted by nanogate
By the way I accidentally used cartoon-mode for my backup of LotR - The fellowship of the Rings (2CD). But the final was suprisingly good :)
That's because cartoon mode doesn't do anything yet. :D

[lordadmira]

Originally posted by jang0
There is a "CG-Animation" matrix (bundled with xvid) and furthermore 2 different "Kika Trickfilm" matrices (hi and lo). Aren't those specialized anime matrices?
I used CG-Animation matrix once and it did seem to give a little better picture at a little lower data rate.

[RadicalEd]

Originally posted by lordadmira
That's because cartoon mode doesn't do anything yet. :D

Yeah it does :|

[sysKin]

Originally posted by lordadmira
That's because cartoon mode doesn't do anything yet. :D Sure it does...:confused:

[edit]lol I was late - by a couple of seconds ;p

[RadicalEd]

RadicalEd's post time:
22:30

sysKin's post time:
22:30

Not even that much, lol.


I think what he might have been mistakenly referencing was my post on detect_static_motion's apparent state of disuse here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=470192#post470192).

[lordadmira]

Well sort of. Another way of saying it is that cartoon mode doesn't do any non-useless things yet.