Are there any decent free 'Popup Killers'? (And other web site related stuff)

[SeeMoreDigital]

I don't know about you guys, but over the last couple of months I've noticed a lot more 'pop ups' appearing than before!

Are there any decent free 'Popup Killers'?

Cheers


EDIT: Title change

[avih]

yes.
it's called Mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org). it has an email client and irc client as well.
if you're interested in a lean and mean browser only, i would recommend Firefox (http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/) (Mozilla's 'little brother'). that's what i'm currently using, and have used during the last year. best browser on earth imho.

here are the reasons (http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/why/) u should use one of them.

enjoy.

[snowcrash]

Just get the Google Toobar for IE. The popup blocking works very well.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks avih,

I'm a Win Explorer user - sorry about that. And I don't fancy changing browsers!

Cheers

[Angelus]

or if your a mozilla/netscape user, you can get the google search bar too. Got this from the March 2, 2004 PC Mag:

http://googlebar.mozdev.org/index.html

also if you want a standalone one, try:

www.panicware.com

[wmansir]

I hear Google bar might be spyware, but I can't recall if it was a credible source so don't take my word for it.

Anyway, I use Avant browser. It's a IE overlay (like MyIE) that gives a bunch of features (like popup blocking, tabbed interface, google-like bar, Flash blocker, ect) while maintaining IE compatibility and your bookmarks, cookies, saved pwds and all the other junk that makes switching to a new browser a pain.

However it is buggy on some systems, so I can't give it a full recommendation. But I can recommend people give it a try and see how they like it.

[SoonUDie]

I've been using pop-up stopper for years.
http://www.panicware.com/product_psfree.html

Hold down control to allow popups.

[jernst]

The problem with most of these popup blockers is that they even block popups that shouldn't be blocked (for example if you click on a link that opens a webpage in a popup).
So I agree with avih; imho Mozilla - apart from being the best browser I ever used being on windows or linux - has an excellent popup blocker feature that doesn't have the problem described before.

I "don't fancy changing browsers" as well and I only use Mozilla (the only time I use ie is to go on windowsupdate.com) and having a xyz toolbar that tracks the websites I'm browsing and eats some more ram and bandwidth is not an option for me.

On another related topic, the mail client is excellent too and blocks 99% of the spam I'm getting automatically (and you don't get affected by all the security issues you get with ie or outlook)

[communist]

Using something different than IE (-> Opera / Mozilla / Firebird) will also extremely decrease the amount of spyware you get installed without question via IE ;)

[KpeX]

I don't know why anyone wouldn't use Firefox/Mozilla. I don't even remember what popups look like. Plus tabbed browsing, managed downloads, many other things right out of the box...

[Kedirekin]

For what it's worth, I use POW (http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/network/pow.htm) by AnalogX. It's small and simple, but completely manual (if you like that sort of thing).

[Doobie]

I've tried a number of popup blockers. Most of them don't work well. For example, they let the window open then they close it, or they block popups I want. But, the popup blocker on the Google tool bar works great. The downside of the Google tool bar is that it talks with Google whenever it wants to.

The next version of IE will have a built-in popup blocker.

But, we've gotten to the point when you need a flash blocker as well. Google doesn't do that. But, there have been a few suggested alternatives that work.

[mrbass]

Originally posted by Doobie
But, the popup blocker on the Google tool bar works great. The downside of the Google tool bar is that it talks with Google whenever it wants to.

Don't know about you but I never enabled the 'advanced features' and it never contacts google. It's your choice which is clearly laid out during the installation..no trickery involved.

[trapvector]

I'll second the Pop-Up Stopper. It's called Pop-Up Stopper Free Edition. I've had no problems at all. Available from PanicWare.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Doobie

The next version of IE will have a built-in popup blocker.

I hear this rumor alot. Any solid evidence of this? And any inkling of how long it will be delayed by the surfacing and subsequent flood of exploits of the Windows NT source code? I suspect that since it has been delayed as long as it has it may soon be delayed indefinatly as Microsoft goes into crisis mode trying to "fix" all the "features" they have hidden all these years. And if the cookie blocker in IE is any indication I have very low expectations for IE's popup blocker. And think about this. Pop-up ads are one of the biggest outlets for online advertising. Second only to spam. And while spammers have no recourse pop-ups no matter how loathe do. How many are going to cry out in outrage when the defacto browser pushed by Microsoft comes default bundled with this functionality. I suspect MS will try to circumvent this saying that they will have it disabled by default and make it dificult to find for the majority of users. Why would netscape take a browser as their base that offered excelent pop-up blocking and remove it? Simple. Because AOL like MSN has partners who rely on pop-ups.

Originally posted by Doobie

But, we've gotten to the point when you need a flash blocker as well. Google doesn't do that. But, there have been a few suggested alternatives that work.

Mozilla adblock is king. With it I have no pop-ups, no banner ads(text, flash, or otherwise), and next to no spam thanks to Mozilla/thunderbird. I feel like I have been transported back to the net of 1993/1994 but with the content of today!

Mozilla is not perfect. But that is being addressed. I am dumbfounded given the alternatives that people who are aware of them even slightly refuse to release their death grip on IE. Everywhere I go my copy of firebird/firefox goes with me. I absolutely refuse to use IE unless I am accessing windowsupdate. Security and feature wise using IE is downright stupid IMHO. On that note the recent IE5 exploit that doom9 posted on the news page is a prime example. A prime example of stupid programming. And if they did something that stupid in something so simple what does that do for your confidence about the rest of the system. But what is scarrier is that while it is generally accepted that this only effects IE 5 > is that this can't be proven. It simply does not have the same immediate result in IE6. But that does not mean that it is not there. What's scarry though is that several major sites still on average have about 35+% visiting through IE5!

Bender - And even though the computer was off and unplugged, an image stayed on the screen. It was... the Windows logo!
Fry - Pfff... that's not scary!
Bender - It is if you're a laserprinter!

I know I am not the only Futurama fan here. :D

[sysKin]

Just wanted to add my vote for mozilla (/firefox). Apart from being the best web browser I've seen, its popup killer is simply perfect and never failed me in any way (apart form obvious things, like blocking a popup that I didn't want to block. But even then two clicks solve this popup forever, even windows reinstall doesn't kill configuration).

If you stick with IE, make sure this is because of good reasons, not because MS *made you* have IE installed.

Radek

[avih]

SeeMoreDigital, i generally don't like pushing ppl to do something they don't want to. afterall, it's their decision. however, in this case, i would like to ask u to at least give it a try.

use firefox for a week. use the tabs (middle-mouse-button on links), watch how the pop-up-blocking works, install some extensions (http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/main.php/Firefox) (interesting ones include All-In-One-Gestures (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/marc.boullet/ext/extensions-en.html), Ad-Block (http://adblock.mozdev.org/), Flash-Click-To-View (http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/flashclick), Google-Bar (http://googlebar.mozdev.org/) (although u don't really need it, searching google is built into the browser itself) and SmoothWheel (http://smoothwheel.mozdev.org) (ok, i'm biased with this one ;)). u even have IE-View (http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/ieview) which allows to view a specific link in IE).

then when someone ask u to use firefox u may answer 'tried that, didn't like it, thx." instead of saying you're just satisfied with IE (and you're not, you obviously need external tools to 'complement' IE's functionality).

it's really a good browser, and that's even without mentionning all the security related stuff. i really think that you'll have a much better online experience with firefox, than u have with IE.

do give it a try.
cheers
avih

[sysKin]

Originally posted by avih
use firefox for a week. use the tabs (middle-mouse-button on links), watch how the pop-up-blocking works, install some extensions (http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/main.php/Firefox) (interesting ones include All-In-One-Gestures (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/marc.boullet/ext/extensions-en.html), Ad-Block (http://adblock.mozdev.org/), Flash-Click-To-View (http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/flashclick), Google-Bar (http://googlebar.mozdev.org/) (although u don't really need it, searching google is built into the browser itself) and SmoothWheel (http://smoothwheel.mozdev.org) (ok, i'm biased with this one ;)). u even have IE-View (http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/ieview) which allows to view a specific link in IE).Nice collection, didn't know about Flash-Click and it looks very useful. I would like to add Tabbrowser Extensions (http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/tbe) which lets you, among other things, redirect all target=_blank links to open new tab instead of new window when clicked with left mouse button, by javascript etc. HUGE configuration included. BTW, one can even keep popups enabled with this because popups just open new, harmless tabs and load in background.

Radek

[snowcrash]

Well, it sure is a Mozilla love-fest in here isn't it?

Let me tell you one thing you can't do with Mozilla that you can with IE. In IE you can move around, rearrange, customize the toolbars as you see fit. For example, I can take the Address bar and put it in the empty space next to the Menu bar. Can't do that with Mozilla/Firefox.

As for the tabbed browsing, well that's not much different from having multiple windows now is it? It's just my "tabs" are on the bottom toolbar, giving me even more area for the actual web content. And instead of using Ctrl-Tab to switch between tabs, I use Alt-Tab to switch between windows. The functionality is the same either way.

[avih]

Originally posted by snowcrash
...Let me tell you one thing you can't do with Mozilla that you can with IE. In IE you can move around, rearrange, customize the toolbars as you see fit. For example, I can take the Address bar and put it in the empty space next to the Menu bar. Can't do that with Mozilla/Firefox.
wrong. firefox does that. right-click on any of the toolbar icons and select 'customize'.

Originally posted by snowcrash
As for the tabbed browsing, well that's not much different from having multiple windows now is it? It's just my "tabs" are on the bottom toolbar, giving me even more area for the actual web content. And instead of using Ctrl-Tab to switch between tabs, I use Alt-Tab to switch between windows. The functionality is the same either way. could be, but u won't know untill u've tried. it turns out that most ppl find the tabs to be one of the best features of mozilla/firefox. and most ppl that use mozilla/firefox know how to arrange their desktops properly. and that includes using the task-bar.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks for all the info you guys.

After reading all the posts in this thread it would seem changing browsers would be advantageous. And being able to see Neo Neko's avatar properly is an opportunity too good to miss!

So I'm going to do as avih suggested and install firefox.

I shall ofcourse let you all know how I get on.

Thanks again


EDIT:
OK then. I'm now using Firefox. However I've checked out my website and it does not look the same as it did with IE.... There's bits missing!

Needless to say I created the site with Front Page....

I guess I'm in for more abuse now!

Cheers

[sysKin]

Originally posted by snowcrash
As for the tabbed browsing, well that's not much different from having multiple windows now is it? It's just my "tabs" are on the bottom toolbar, giving me even more area for the actual web content. And instead of using Ctrl-Tab to switch between tabs, I use Alt-Tab to switch between windows. The functionality is the same either way. I don't agree. If you open new window, this window gets focus and opens on top, so you need extra clicking to go back to your original window and click some more. Tabs open in background.

There is more of course, such as bookmarking a set of tabs, having a set of tabs as your homepage, or a simple ability to undo closing a tab (with tabbrowser extensions).

Also, do you really like having your regular taskbar full of browser windows?

Radek

[avih]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
... EDIT:
OK then. I'm now using Firefox. However I've checked out my website and it does not look the same as it did with IE.... There's bits missing!

Needless to say I created the site with Front Page....

I guess I'm in for more abuse now!
Cheers
on the contrary.
you took the red pill, welcome to the desert of the real ;)

now there's no way back. unless, of course, u sell yourself to Mr. M$ Smith, and put back into the matrix. but would u really want that? ;)

[snowcrash]

nm

[sysKin]

Originally posted by avih
now there's no way back.Yes avih, this is the worst aspect of mozilla. You can't go back. Whan I'm at uni, I actually walk quite a bit just to go to a computer room with macs, because I have real user account there and I have firebird installed. Even with only one mouse button, it's still easier for me to browse there...

Drawing mousegestures or middle-clicking on IE looks pathetic...

:)Radek

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by avih
on the contrary.
you took the red pill, welcome to the desert of the real ;)

now there's no way back. unless, of course, u sell yourself to Mr. M$ Smith, and put back into the matrix. but would u really want that? ;) How true...

Anyway, after a little bit of fiddling about I've worked out what the problem was and my web site looks okay now.

Looks like IE will get dumped

Oh, and it's so nice to see Neo Neko's avatar!

Cheers

[communist]

Originally posted by snowcrash

As for the tabbed browsing, well that's not much different from having multiple windows now is it? It's just my "tabs" are on the bottom toolbar, giving me even more area for the actual web content. And instead of using Ctrl-Tab to switch between tabs, I use Alt-Tab to switch between windows. The functionality is the same either way.
There is a big difference between cluttering the taskbar with loads of IE-intances and tabbed browsing. I found out that multiple instances of IE eat up way more memory than the same amount of tabs in firefix / Mozilla.
10 (different) Tabs in firefox ~ 28MB
10 (different) IE windows ~ 38MB

+You can surf forums a hell lot faster using gestures to open multiple threads :)
Also the fact you have a totally different surfing behaviour -> I just keep opening tabs in the background and read them later without leaving the first tab and loosing focus :cool:

[avih]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
...Looks like IE will get dumped...
Good. another convert ;) welcome to the club.

ps.
don't forget to still test your web pages with IE, afterall, there are many more ppl that haven't seen the light. yet.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by avih
...don't forget to still test your web pages with IE, afterall, there are many more ppl that haven't seen the light. yet. Yea, for some reason the grid background in my web pages disappeared when they were being viewed with Firefox!

Sorted now though...

[KpeX]

Originally posted by sysKin
I would like to add Tabbrowser Extensions (http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/tbe) which lets you, among other things, redirect all target=_blank links to open new tab instead of new window when clicked with left mouse button, by javascript etc. HUGE configuration included. BTW, one can even keep popups enabled with this because popups just open new, harmless tabs and load in background. Very nice, thanks sysKin, I hadn't seen this one yet. Firefox gets even sweeter :).

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by communist
There is a big difference between cluttering the taskbar with loads of IE-intances and tabbed browsing. I found out that multiple instances of IE eat up way more memory than the same amount of tabs in firefix / Mozilla.
10 (different) Tabs in firefox ~ 28MB
10 (different) IE windows ~ 38MB

+You can surf forums a hell lot faster using gestures to open multiple threads :)
Also the fact you have a totally different surfing behaviour -> I just keep opening tabs in the background and read them later without leaving the first tab and loosing focus :cool:

Yes I would like to second that. Tabbed browsing saves on memory. Granted there are interfaces to IE that allow rudamentary tab interfaces. Just not like firebird. It takes some getting used to. But once you do it is hard to go back. On the few occasions I find myself forced to use IE I have to force myself to not use mouse guestures. People look funny at me. Also I would like to recomend the optimoz tweaks. You can load your bookmarks in the sidebar like IE. But this extension makes the bar extend or retract if your mouse is close to the left edge. It roxors if you have a large list of links with a deep heirarchy!

Also to whomever said that firefoxe's toolbars are not that configurable. Not only is that false. It is rediculously false. It is not as simple perhaps as the basic drag and drop positioning of IE. But with some XML, Javascript, and CSS knowledge you can code browser chrome to make your own custom and completely unique browser interface. It is a bit more complex but alot more powerfull.

[Doobie]

Are there no Opera users here? It works well.

In reference to the suggested Panicware Pop-Up Stopper, the website says "ads are blocked, or closed quickly." I hate popup blockers that work by closing the windows. They shouldn't allow the windows to open in the first place. And, they should never block a popup that is caused by clicking on a link.

Anyway, I've just downloaded Firefox. I had avoided Mozilla in the past because it was so bloated and otherwise rough. But, I'll give it another try.

[avih]

what'dya think? ;)

http://smoothwheel.mozdev.org/firefox_red_pill_2.png (http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox)

[wmansir]

Well with all the glowing reviews here I'm giving Firefox a try. But So far I'm unimpressed.

1. It's going to take a lot of work to get it up to what Avant does out of the box. I understand it's part of the lean-mean default config and also due to the fact that it is so custumizable, but I shouldn't have to put this much work into a setup.

2. It has some annoying qurks. For instance, it's a tabbed browswer, but by default when you click on a link that opens in a new window, it opens a second instance instead of a new tab.

3. It's buggy. Yes I said buggy. Perhaps it is just the exts. I have had it installed all of 20 minutes and I have run into 1 major bug and a couple of minor ones. Like:

a. I tried installing the Tabbrowser extension, but when I restarted Firefox all I got was the Tabbrowser extension "about box", which did nothing when I clicked OK, the only button. I killed Firefox.exe and tried again with the same results. I restarted my comp, no go. So I tried again and hit Alt-F4, which closed the box and lauched the browser. I had to do this again several times when trying to configure the plugin. Finally I got sick of it and uninstalled the plugin.

b. I installed the all-in-one mouse gestures ext. When I just went to highlight something on a webpage I found I couldn't because it thought I was doing a mouse gesture. Perhaps I have to use my middle button or something. The only problme is Firefox doesn't seem to recognize my middle button.

c. I went into the ext. options to disable the mouse gesture plugin. Which I appeared to do. I didn't get any messages about having to restart, but I guess I must have to because the plugin is still active even though it is disabled in the CP. It gave me 2-3 messages about having to restart for every ext when I installed them, but didn't give me one when I disabled one.

4. I know you guys said you can custumize the toolbar and to some extent you can. But how about letting me put the tab bar at the bottom of the window? I much prefer Avant's custumization setup.

I don't mean to bash this browser, and I'm going to give it more time, both to set it up further and to get use to it. I haven't looked at all the plugins yet and I'm sure some can address these issues I have.

ps. this is really just a nitpick, but I don't liek the way the cursor seems to highlight half of the last letter as I type. I like to be able to see the letters as I type them.

pps. Sorry if there are a lot of misspellings in this post, but IEspell ovbiously doens't work with Firefox.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Is there an 'spell checker' you can intergrate into Firefox?

Me carnt spewl vewy wewl...

[wmansir]

I thought there would have been an extension, but it doesn't look that simple.

Try this (http://www.dennis.ca/weblog/archives/000420.php).

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by wmansir
Well with all the glowing reviews here I'm giving Firefox a try. But So far I'm unimpressed.

1. It's going to take a lot of work to get it up to what Avant does out of the box. I understand it's part of the lean-mean default config and also due to the fact that it is so custumizable, but I shouldn't have to put this much work into a setup.

Well that is your oppinion. And there is nothing wrong with that. You simply desire the exact thing you have grown acustom to. Thing is that Mozilla/Firefox is trying to target a much larger audience than Avant does. So it has to be a bit more generic in it's defaults. Anything to radical to start of with and you could disenfranchise alot of people.

Originally posted by wmansir
2. It has some annoying qurks. For instance, it's a tabbed browswer, but by default when you click on a link that opens in a new window, it opens a second instance instead of a new tab.

First and foremoset it is a browser. A browser that offeres tabed browsing functionality or the traditional multiwindow experience. Again they go with tradition. They offer the power but don't want to scare people off first thing. They are trying to keep migration woes to a minimum. And then when people are ready they can step up to the next level.

Originally posted by wmansir
3. It's buggy. Yes I said buggy. Perhaps it is just the exts. I have had it installed all of 20 minutes and I have run into 1 major bug and a couple of minor ones. Like:

a. I tried installing the Tabbrowser extension, but when I restarted Firefox all I got was the Tabbrowser extension "about box", which did nothing when I clicked OK, the only button. I killed Firefox.exe and tried again with the same results. I restarted my comp, no go. So I tried again and hit Alt-F4, which closed the box and lauched the browser. I had to do this again several times when trying to configure the plugin. Finally I got sick of it and uninstalled the plugin.

Personally I don't use the tabbed browsing extensions myself. But I have never seen any other extension or the app itself behave that way under Windows, Mac, Linux, BSD, or BeOS. I will try installing that extention later though and see what happens.

Originally posted by wmansir
b. I installed the all-in-one mouse gestures ext. When I just went to highlight something on a webpage I found I couldn't because it thought I was doing a mouse gesture. Perhaps I have to use my middle button or something. The only problme is Firefox doesn't seem to recognize my middle button.

It thinks you are doing a mouse guesture. But it will select at the same time. Do your selection and then keep the mouse still for a second or so while still holding the mouse button. The guesture will cancel and the selection will remain. Also under the extensions section in the options dialog you are able to configure mouse guesture sensitivity and key combos to eliminate this if it annoys you. Also you can turn on the mouse trail which draws the mouse guesture as you make it. Rather spiffy if I say so myself.

Originally posted by wmansir
c. I went into the ext. options to disable the mouse gesture plugin. Which I appeared to do. I didn't get any messages about having to restart, but I guess I must have to because the plugin is still active even though it is disabled in the CP. It gave me 2-3 messages about having to restart for every ext when I installed them, but didn't give me one when I disabled one.

Most people are going to install more than they remove. The multiple warnings come from some plugins installing in the browser heirarchy and the user profiles. You get a warning or more for each. Granted we would be just as well off with one. But they have time to iron that out before 1.0. Unfortunatly to keep things cross platform and similarly functional you have to exit and restart the browser application. Reminds me of the good ole Windows NT days. "You mouse has moved. You must restart for the changes to take effect." But it is a rather minimal annoyance since I know what extensions I want and after they are installed I never have to deal with it again save for the odd theme or two. But phusion is nice and slick.

Originally posted by wmansir
4. I know you guys said you can custumize the toolbar and to some extent you can. But how about letting me put the tab bar at the bottom of the window? I much prefer Avant's custumization setup.

Well there is no drag and drop type solution for this. It would be very hard to do in a cross platform manner. It should however be trivial with a little HTML knowledge to go in and edit the chrome files so that all chrome shows at the bottom below the page or just the tabs, or just the menues, or just the URL bar, or just the bookmarks bar, etc. And once you edit it you can share your custom chrome file with others who desire the same thing. But having all that stuff on the bottom is quite a detour from standard brower fair and could put the learning curve to high for many beginners. Take comfort and know that it is there though. Perhaps I will give it a try when I get the time to do that sort of thing.

Originally posted by wmansir
pps. Sorry if there are a lot of misspellings in this post, but IEspell ovbiously doens't work with Firefox.

Actually you give yourself to little credit. If there were any mispellings they were so minor I did not notice any of them. I believe there are alternatives like IEspell for mozilla. In fact I know it is still floating around somewhere. But there was a menu extension that would translate your text into other languages for you as well. Mind you it was a machine translation.

[snowcrash]

After all the hype here, I decided to give Firefox another try. It's definately a nice browser and the tabbed browsing is a nice convenience.

But now I want to respond to the person who said it was "stupid" for anyone to use IE and not Mozilla. Let me tell you why someone might want to stick with IE. One word. COMPATIBILITY.

After surfing around for a couple hours in Firefox I discovered several pages that did not draw properly. Some of the drawing errors were quite drastic. And there were a couple cases where navigation did not work properly, ie. click on a link and go nowhere (was not due to pop-up blocking either).

This stuff doesn't surprise me, since these days web designers concentrate their efforts on optimizing their content for IE, the most prevalent browser. Many web stes do not test their content properly for Netscape/Mozilla.

So there you go. Some of us choose to use IE because it's the most compatible browser out there and almost always shows web content as it was supposed to be seen. Please don't call us STUPID for making that choice.

[avih]

snowcrash, fair enough. it's your choice. u're correct with most of your points. many designers only test their pages on IE. if you use IE you'll have the highest percentage of "correctly" rendered pages. you may choose to call it compatibility if u wish so.

regarding the 'stupid' issue, Neo Neko was not referring to IE users when saying 'stupid'. u may want to re-read his post.

however, acting according to these issues ties you, and the other users of IE to MS products (front page, word-html-exports, IE, etc). and practically requires u to use the whole range of MS products. u may find that convinient at 1st, but you're already in MS' pocket. and that's a bad place to be at.

what MS does wrong is that its products in general, and specifically IE doesn't conform to standards. they invent their own standards, and prevent interoperability with other platforms/applications. so you're locked down.

mozilla and firefox are way more standard complient than any version of IE. they behave identically on all platforms according to the web standards. so when you buy a PDA, or switch OS, or use a web-on-tv set-top-box, the pages will look the same. but that happens ONLY if the web sites are standard complient and not IE specific. OR if all of these products are from MS as well. would u want that?

the bottom line is that i think that as a consumer, u should be worried that web sites are designed for IE only, instead of for web standards. not all platforms have activeX. not all platforms support VBscript, etc.

and if that's not enough, consider all the security holes of IE/OE, and the fact that regardless of the holes, 99% of virus writers target these products. this alone should be enough for you.

it's your choice. choose what u think is best. i know i'm satisfied with my selection.

cheers
avih

ps. regarding the 'prevailing browser' issue. correct, but changing. according to this (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp) report, IE counts at about 85%, Gecko based (Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox) counts at about 11%. the balance is changing.

[sysKin]

Originally posted by wmansir
3. It's buggy. Yes I said buggy. Perhaps it is just the exts. I have had it installed all of 20 minutes and I have run into 1 major bug and a couple of minor ones.Unfortunately, extensions are behind in development of firefox. This version is quite new, and most extensions have not been updated.

If you want to make sure all extensions work, you should use old good mozilla rather than firefox (version 0.8 starts with 0 for a reason...).

As for having tabbar on bottom (or left or right), tabbrowser does that (again). I'm sorry to hear it didn't work. I'm pretty sure it doesn't work for some firefox users, I visit their irc channel from time to time...

Radek

[Christos]

I desided a long time ago to change my default browser and went through the whole prosses of searching and evaluating alternatives.
I tried both mozilla and firebird (now firefox) and I liked them, espesially firefox.
But I have to say they can't beat Opera.
It has the best things of both by default (no need for plug-ins) and many more.
In fact opera was the first browser to introduce mouse gestures and one of the first to introduce tabbed browsing.
If you all want to be objective just give it a try before questioning me... Link (http://www.opera.com/products/)
I know its not open source and I really hope the day will come soon that the firefox project will be completed and I am sure it will be the best browser...
But until then Opera is the one.

P.S. : Anyone has one of nokia's newest mobile phones?
Opera is the default browser...

[wmansir]

But phusion is nice and slick. That's the one I installed!

Thanks for the detailed response Neo Neko. I agree some of my criticisms were because I wanted it to do things I was accustom to, preferably in a way I was accustom to.

Just a couple of quick points. I can understand defaulting 'new window' links to a new instance, but at least make it an option to default 'new window' links to new tabs. In general, the amount of settings under the options page, excluding extensions, is very underwhelming. But I did find an extension which would let me set this behavior. Also, regarding the mouse gestures, perhaps it's a buggy install, but when left clicking and dragging the mouse no selection is made. You are right in that if I pause before releasing the button the gesture is aborted.

Just so I'm not seen as totally negative I want to say there are aspects I like. The extensions system for one. This system looks great, even with the problems I had I can appreciate it's design. I understand it is meant to address many of the issues I have with the default config, but I also find it unreasonable that I should have to install an addon in order to get a "search" button next to the search bar, which I just did. or having an extension to disable auto-complete. I think that is in options, or it should be. Damn, there I go negative again. think positive, think positive Adblock is a great extension. Others are good too. I'm still checking them out.

There are other things I like, most due to extensions. But it's getting late so I may finish this post up tomorrow.

Edit: I wanted to add that there are a few nice little features I like also. Like the "view Selection Source" options, or the "Copy image location". These are very useful. In fact I just used the latter option to make a great contribution to this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71361). :)

[gldblade]

a. I tried installing the Tabbrowser extension, but when I restarted Firefox all I got was the Tabbrowser extension "about box", which did nothing when I clicked OK, the only button. I killed Firefox.exe and tried again with the same results. I restarted my comp, no go. So I tried again and hit Alt-F4, which closed the box and lauched the browser. I had to do this again several times when trying to configure the plugin. Finally I got sick of it and uninstalled the plugin. The reason is that you're supposed to go to Edit->Preferences->Tabbed Browsing to configure Tabbrowser Extension.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by snowcrash
After all the hype here, I decided to give Firefox another try. It's definately a nice browser and the tabbed browsing is a nice convenience.

But now I want to respond to the person who said it was "stupid" for anyone to use IE and not Mozilla. Let me tell you why someone might want to stick with IE. One word. COMPATIBILITY.

Well that is nice and all. But unfortunatly no one said that. What "I" said with admitted fervor and zeal was that it was in my oppinion stupid to favor IE when someone was aware of alternatives. Especially in the sense of security. I did not say that everyone "must" use mozilla. Make no mistake I "LIKE" mozilla. But opera is also quite nice. Also Khtml based layout systems like Konqueror and Safari are very respectable. And I still often find uses for lynx.

Originally posted by snowcrash
After surfing around for a couple hours in Firefox I discovered several pages that did not draw properly. Some of the drawing errors were quite drastic. And there were a couple cases where navigation did not work properly, ie. click on a link and go nowhere (was not due to pop-up blocking either).

This stuff doesn't surprise me, since these days web designers concentrate their efforts on optimizing their content for IE, the most prevalent browser. Many web stes do not test their content properly for Netscape/Mozilla.

The funny thing about IE being the most compatablie is that it is actually the least compatable. But in reality for every one of your "so called" mozilla incompatable pages I could bring out one or more perfectly valid HTML pages that IE renders wholly incorrectly. All you have to do is follow open standards to design incompatable pages. Google for "complex spiral demo". Just don't view it in IE.

Originally posted by snowcrash
So there you go. Some of us choose to use IE because it's the most compatible browser out there and almost always shows web content as it was supposed to be seen.

Well there are "HUNDREDS" of pages on doom9's site alone where IE renders incorrectly. :devil: You percieve what you percieve. That does not mean that you are correct. In my day to day use of the web it is truly a noteworthy occasion when I find pages that Mozilla can't display correctly. And I do check from time to time. Even though doom9's frontpage does not render the same in IE as it does in Mozilla, mozilla does not render it wrong. Just different. Speaking of which I still have to package the files and get them over to doom9 so IE will render the page the same as Mozilla. I nearly lost them when Windows destroyed a HD or two. Thank goodness for backups and *NIX boxes.

Originally posted by snowcrash
Please don't call us STUPID for making that choice.

You can make whatever choices you like. But you can't expect everyone to think that they are inteligent. It's a two way street I admit. People are alone because they think they are. Followers are a dime a dozen. Actually more like a penny a 10^99. So be a leader. By saying that I will just settle and use option X because developers are to lazy to do their job and develop for X and Y is saying that you don't want a choice. And while this only speaks to those who are web enthusiasts it is analogus to something that all of us digital video enthusiasts hold most dear. Our rights to "our" digital media and how they are being trampled. Not speaking out means they will only get trampled more. Just as not using better browsers means that pages will be less likely to be designed better.

Having a knowledge of retail I can say with some certainty that the addage that "the customer is always right" is almost always wrong anymore. But that does not mean that there are not legitimate complaints and reasons to complain. Even if IE is your favorite browser and you never want to switch you should at this point be getting everyone you can to use something other than IE. Because it is the only way that Microsoft will bother to develop IE anymore. And that is if you are lucky enough to find someone at Microsoft who still knows how IE works or how to develop it. If IE is anything like SMB then the developer group has been disbanded for about 7 years and they have had two interns actively assigned the duty of patching the old code as vulnerabilities get raised. Because IE has not been actively developed since 1998. By being complacent you are doing a disservice to yourself and everyone else. Whether or not you think you are. Don't just say we "should" do this and that. Lets get out and do it. Whether it is telling Microsoft to get off their thumbs and develop their products or telling IP whores where they can stick their DRM and to let their congressmen have a paid day off from lobbying on their behalf. By not exercising our rights it is as if we are saying we don't want them. And that is something I don't want. So don't claim compatability as a defense for IE. ;) Happy browsing. And no hard feelings.

[wmansir]

I just thought I would update this by saying I got Tabbrowser extensions to work, for a little while at least. The problem is I uninstalled 'all-in-one' mouse gestures, because it wasn't allowing me to select text, and it nuked most of my extensions. Of the dozen I have installed only Google bar and Download Status bar are still working. I've decided to give up on .8 and am going to try .7, so I haven't given up all hope.

Edit: After setting up Firebird 0.7 for a little while I'm beginning to come around. MUCH smoother than the unstable Firefox 0.8. I had to reinstall from scratch since my profile was hosed from 0.8, but Tabbrowser Ext. is working fine and I got spellcheck installed (though that is a little flaky, but I like the interface better than IEspell). I still don't know if I will switch, but I'm closer than I was yesterday.

[lapin]

I'd like to cast one more vote for Opera here, as Christos said it was one of the first (if the not the first browser) to include mouse gesture and tabs.

I don't like tabs, but multiple instance of opera and mouse gesture does it for me... it does it really well.

Opening a new window in the background with one click, closing with a mouse gesture... i'm hooked to this way of surfing the net, i'll simply never go back.

[Uli]

I don't want to participate in this 'holy war' of opinions for/against any paticular browser. But the question was:
"Are there any decent free Popup Killers"
The answer: YES!

Try proxomitron http://www.proxomitron.info (albeight discontinued)
or privoxy http://www.privoxy.org
or webwasher http://www.webwasher.com

those three utils are highly configurable and even have their on message boards. They can not only fight popups but also malicious html code, Active Xshit, javascript and other nasty stuff. Although i'm not really an IE6 enthusiast, i can recommend the combination of IE6 with any of the above products in combination with e. g. kerio personal firewall. With this combination i never got a virus or a dialer or other netdirt.

just my 2 Euro/100

greetz, Uli

[stax76]

agreed with tab browsing is the most important feature. Imho pressing Ctrl and clicking on a link which will open the link in a new tab in the background is essential for a serious browser. Shift is opening a new window btw. It's a lot easier than the context menu when you have to open a large amount of links like a links collection, image galleries etc. Another plus is the browser supports extensions, I din't search for neat extensions yet, the only one I'm using atm. is for sorting the bookmarks alphabetically

[Sirber]

If you use IE, you can use Google's toolbar. It's free and works well :)

[communist]

Originally posted by Dolemite
Imho pressing Ctrl and clicking on a link which will open the link in a new tab in the background is essential for a serious browser. Shift is opening a new window btw. It's a lot easier than the context menu when you have to open a large amount of links like a links collection, image galleries etc. Another plus is the browser supports extensions, I din't search for neat extensions yet, the only one I'm using atm. is for sorting the bookmarks alphabetically
Having a 3 button mouse (scroll wheel) makes it even better :D