6ch WMV audio -> 6ch wav/ac3

[Buffman]

Hi folks,

I've been spending a great deal of time on this - I'm hoping all of the expertise in this forum might finally be able to solve my problems! =)

I have a non-DRM WMV file with 6ch WMAudio, and I'm trying to extract the audio and encode it to ac3 so I can play DD on my external receiver.

I initially went to use Graphedit and file dest to extract the audio to a 6ch wav file. However, I noticed a big problem with "WMAudio Decoder DMO". Even though the source is 6ch, it was using the wrong pin sub-type and outputting it as 2ch audio! As far as I know, there isn't a way to specify specific pins in graphedit. If I play the file in ZoomPlayer, I'm able to view the graph it's using and noticed it using a different pin sub-type for "WMAudio Decoder DMO" and it's playing 5.1/6ch audio. I've also verified this effect on multiple computers.

...SO with no luck with graphedit I started looking around and came across FOOBAR 2000. I was very excited when I found that it supported conversion of wma to 6ch wav. I got it working, but when it converted my audio I ended up with a 4.34gb 6ch wav file that was only 7minutes 9seconds. (The source file is 4gb wmv movie ~2hours long. - The extracted audio size (4.34gb) was about what I expected for 2 full hours). Why it cut it at ~7minutes I have no clue (and it seems no one else does either). This occured with FOOBAR 2000 v.7.7 and v.8b9

I've tried a lot of other apps out there, but none supports wma/wmv --> 6ch wav (most are limited to 2ch).

I'm assuming that there are others who've converted 6ch wma/wmv audio to wav...


I'd greatly appreciate *ANY* help!!

Thanks!!

[KpeX]

I haven't ever tried this myself, but -

For the graphedit method, is there any way of configuring the decoder for six channel output?

How are you determining the length of the wav produced by foobar?

[Buffman]

Nope, I tried all the settings/options in graphedit. Unfortunately, there aren't any options available when you right click "WMAudio Decoder DMO". I was wondering if there are other WMA audio decoders out there that might be configurable, I did some searchign around but had no luck. It's most likey due to MS's DRM...

Anyhow, I was able to verify the wav was only 7 minutes 9 seconds long by playing it back in foobar 2000, soft encode, and a couple other sound apps. I was hoping it was just a glitch in the file, but it doesnt' appear to be (although it's still possible).

Bleh, still stuck :(

[KpeX]

I would almost think that the wav is correct due to the file size - try fixing the wav with besplit (http://besplit.doom9.org). An example commandline is

BeSplit -core( -input c:\track.wav -prefix c:\track.wav -type wav -fix )

[Buffman]

Okay, so I just tried using BeSplit and came across a problem (I think). I'm assuming it's a problem because I had this exact same problem when using BeSweet to encode wav->ac3.

When I ran BeSplit, it finished instantaneously reporting success. However, all I ended up with is a 8.48kb file.

Here's the BeSplit output -

BeSplit v0.82 by DSPguru.
--------------------------

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSplit -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : f:\001 Shrek1440_6500.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output Prefix : f:\001 Shrek1440_6500.wav
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:00:00:010] | Writing f:\001 Shrek1440_6500.wav01.wav
[00:00:00:010] +---------------------
[00:00:00:010] Operation Completed !
[00:00:00:000] <-- Process Duration

This exact same thing happened when I used BeSweet/ac3machine to encode an ac3 file. I then attempted to upgrade to the latest beta BeSweet only to find out that ac3 encoding has been removed, so I just abandoned the idea of getting it to work.

...So I'm starting to think that either the WAV file has somethign wrong with it, or maybe it's FOOBAR just doing a bad job at the conversion. Since FOOBAR is the only app/method I've found to extract the wav file, it looks like i'm stuck again. Any other ideas to try to fix the wav file?

Btw, I've verified the source wmv audio doesn't have any problems with it - so i'm sure the source isn't the problem...

[Buffman]

So I think I've finally got it working...

The source was 24bit so I was trying to keep the wav at 24bit as well. As soon as I dropped it down to 16bit, everything is working the way it should be.

Thanks a lot for all your help/suggestions KpeX!

[KpeX]

Originally posted by Buffman
So I think I've finally got it working...

The source was 24bit so I was trying to keep the wav at 24bit as well. As soon as I dropped it down to 16bit, everything is working the way it should be.

Thanks a lot for all your help/suggestions KpeX! Interesting. So just for clarity ( and future searches ), you used foobar to get a working six channel wav ?

[Buffman]

Yep -

In fact after spending a lot of time searching Foobar's the only tool/method of converting 6 channel wmv audio (wma) to a 6ch wav file.

I'm kinda surprised that not too many people have done this before, but i'm glad at least one tool worked! As to why I had problems with 24bit I have no clue, but i'm just happy to get it working...

[Mitchjs]

how do i get it to save 6 wav

when i do convert

it makes 1 file

mitch

[Mitchjs]

ok, i see the wav is a 6 channel wav, what is the order of channels from a wma to the wav save?

mitch

[LigH]

We had the same question in the german doom9 / Gleitz forum a while ago. My conclusion was, the DMO decoder probably always decodes only to 2-channel (e.g. ProLogic) audio. If you found that foobar2000 will decode it to 6-channel WAV, I'll have to check that, too...
__

UPDATE:

foobar2000 0.8.1, Special edition, was not able to write a 6-channel wave, the output contained only 2 channels. :confused:

[bond]

Originally posted by LigH
My conclusion was, the DMO decoder probably always decodes only to 2-channel (e.g. ProLogic) audio. afaik the dmo decoder outputs automatically to stereo if the system is not winxp (or win2000)

thank you billy! i will now run and buy myself a brand new winxp because of that!

[LigH]

This is Windows 2000, and here is a 8 channel soundcard (TerraTec EWS88 MT).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Buffman
Yep -

In fact after spending a lot of time searching Foobar's the only tool/method of converting 6 channel wmv audio (wma) to a 6ch wav file.

I'm kinda surprised that not too many people have done this before, but i'm glad at least one tool worked! As to why I had problems with 24bit I have no clue, but i'm just happy to get it working... Yes, Foobar2000 is damned flexible tool!

Cheers

[ramicio]

uhh how in the world do you work this foobar thing? i have a wma that's 5.1 channel i want to try to make dts (i have a dts encoder.) cant it output discrete channels and not just one single wav? pleas help.

[Mitchjs]

use foobar to make a 6ch wav
then use besweet to split the 6ch wav to 6 wavs


mitch

[ramicio]

but i have no idea how to even use this foobar thing. it's confusing, which usually means it's a good program. oh, and for one, i split the audio from this video, and made it a wma. it's wm9 audio if that has anything to do with anything.

[LigH]

Could someone please check, if decoding to 6 channels is not possible up to Windows 2000, only from Windows XP? I don't know even one person who has both OS running in parallel.

[ramicio]

this just won't work. i don't know how to use this program, and it looks like it's just a media file player to me. whenever i do hit run conversion, it gives an error. wtf

[LigH]

Originally posted by ramicio
whenever i do hit run conversion, it gives an error. wtf
So would you be so kind as to tell us - which error? (Please quote word by word.)

[Buffman]

I've just seen some activity on this thread...

I'm using WinXP, but I cant' imagine that there's a limitation with Windows 2000. If you folks need some help with foobar (I admit it is confusing at first) let me know. I'll be happy to assist as much as I can.

If you're getting errors, please post what errors you're getting and what steps you're taking to duplicate these errors. Without any info, it's really hard to help. (I know it's really easy to bitch when you get errors, but if you want it working then bitching doesn't help at all).

[LigH]

No error messages for me - the DMO decoder just decodes only with 2 channels (ProLogic compatible, though), and reports only 2 channels.

[JnZ]

Originally posted by Buffman

When I ran BeSplit, it finished instantaneously reporting success. However, all I ended up with is a 8.48kb file..........


BeSweet can operate with 16-bit WAVes smaller than 2GB, but if you use 32-bit float WAVe, BeSweet opens Waves over 4GB barier.
In Foobar 2000, set 32-bit float (about 2h audio have over 8GB in WAVe format), and then you may it convert to AC3 in BeSweet. But i don't know right channel order.

[tiki4]

Originally posted by LigH
No error messages for me - the DMO decoder just decodes only with 2 channels (ProLogic compatible, though), and reports only 2 channels.

If I remember correctly there was once a discussion somewhere in XviD or new formats forum about that subject. Some guys even dived into registry to find out what's going wrong and where the problem is. I think the result so far is simply: the codecs for decoding WMA9PRO are the same on W2K and XP, but somehow the decoder only allows 6 channel output on Windows XP. Dunno why M$ made this restriction, but possibly it's just another way to sell more copies of XP.

AFAIK you are limited to stereo only output in Graphedit as well. It's somewhat great news that foobar2000 can unlock the DMO to output 6 channel WAV.

Cheers,

tiki4

P.S. I will try to determine the channel order.

[JnZ]

I will try to determine the channel order.

I found right way to convert 6ch WMA (WMV) to AC3.

1) Convert WMA (WMV) via Foobar 2000 to 6ch, 32-bit float WAVe.
(BeSweet opens WAVes > 2G, that have 32-bits only)
2) Convert this WAVe via BeSweet to six 1ch WAVes.
Syntax> BeSweet -core( -input "d:\6ch.wav" -output "d:\mono.wav" -6ch )
This will generate six WAVes: monoFL.wav, monoC.wav, monoLR.wav, monoSL.wav, monoSR.wav, monoLFE.wav)
3) Write small *.mux file eg. mono.mux, which contains this lines:
monoFL.wav
monoC.wav
monoFR.wav
monoSL.wav
monoSR.wav
monoLFE.wav
Note: Lines must be exactly like this, to keep the right channel order.
4) Convert mono.mux via BeSweet to AC3.
Syntax>BeSweet -core( -input "d:\mono.mux" -output "d:\audio.ac3" ) -ac3enc( -b 448 )
Note: Set the biterate of AC3, as You want (-b 448 switch).

And after that, you get 5.1 AC3 with right channel order.

N-Joy.

[tiki4]

Thanks JnZ for your work. Highly appreciated.

tiki4

[pelmen]

ah, hopefully this is the answer to my post asking for help to convert asf to ac3/6wavs. (afaik ASF and WMA are identical, just asf is the older naming convention).

something that strikes me about the 5.1ch ASFs i have recently gotten (first time i've encountered multichannel ASF) that doesn't seem clear to me from the posts is whether or not multichannel asf files are two channel audio or 6 discrete channels? like dolby surround/pro logic are 2 channel signals which process and decode at the output (amplifier) stage into the extra channels whereas dolby digital keeps each channel seperate in the files. the multichannel asf loads fine into all sorts of 2 channel only apps which leads me to think its the same sort of multichannel that pro logic is. it would also explain why people aren't seeing 6 discrete channels in the apps they use as the multichannel ASF/WMA audio streams only have two discrete channels. Which means we need a software decoder to properly decode the 6 channels. Also leads me to think that the Win2K/XP issues being reported might have another factor involved: the version of windows media player and codecs installed.

will give the above method a try tonight on the ASFs i've got and see how it goes anyway.

[JnZ]

I think, that Microsoft supports only few types of soundcards like SB Audigy 2, and on other types 6ch soundcards plays only 2ch DD. Or maybe is a small error in the DMO decoder?....who knows. But Foobar 2000 can extract all six channels from 6ch WMA (WMV) correctly.

[tiki4]

To my knowledge ASF and WMV/WMA are the same containers, just some restrictions apply to WMV like only one video and audio stream, but please correct me if I'm wrong here. Nevertheless, tools that can read ASF usually also read WMV.

WMA is discrete multichannel if the codec is WMA9PRO 5.1. The thing is M$ has locked the decoder so that only Windows Media Player 9 or higher - running on Windows XP - decodes to 6 discrete channels. Otherwise automatic downmixing to stereo is performed.

Cheers,

tiki4

[katjarella]

Hello JnZ,
Trailer Windows Media Surround Test (720p) (http://www.cinenow.com/us/vobtrailer.php3/id,77/)
Sound format : Windows Media Audio 9 Professional, 384 kbps, 48 kHz, 5.1 channel 24 bit
Video format : Windows Media Video 9 Professional, 1280 x 720, 5384 Kbits/s

foobar2000 v0.8.3 Info:
samplerate = 48000
channels = 6
codec = Windows Media Audio V9
bitrate = 5426
--------------------
408000 samples @ 48000Hz

----------------------------------------------
wmv-surroundtest_720p.wmv > foobar2000 > Convert > WAV (PCM32bit floating-Point) > wmv-surroundtest_720p.wav > BeSweet > mono*.wav

in mono.wavFL.wav I hear: FL, C, SL & LFE.
in mono.wavFR.wav I hear: FR, C, SR & LFE.
and mono.wavC.wav, mono.wavLFE.wav & mono.wavS*.wav: Silence.

Unfortunately it does not function under W2K.

[JnZ]

Originally posted by katjarella
Unfortunately it does not function under W2K.

First time, try to test, if 6ch WAVe plays on your system correctly.
Download some suround test e.g. from microsoft:http://download.microsoft.com/download/winmediatech40/Utility/1.0/W98NT42KMeXP/EN-US/6channel.exe (about 560kB)
This package include 6ch WAVe and 6ch WMA.

Test their 6ch WAVe test on your soundcard. On my soundcard (nForce 2 SoundStorm) WAVe sounds from all channel ok, but included WMA plays only stereo.

If WAVe won't play right from all channels, error is in soundcard setting or speaker connection. If all is ok, then try step 2: Convert 6ch WMA test via Foobar 2000 to WAVe, and plays this WAVe on Your system. You will see...

I tested convert WMA 6ch test from Microsoft and convert to AC3 5.1, and everything is OK. So in next step I convert The Fifth Element 720p.wmv to XviD, sound to AC3 5.1, and every works fine too. I have WinXP Pro with SP2 installed.

[katjarella]

Originally posted by JnZ
First time, try to test, if 6ch WAVe plays on your system correctly.

my System:
Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional (SP4)
Sound : Creative SB Live! 5.1 Sound Card
Speeker Settings: 5.1 Surround Sound

The 6Channel WAVfile plays perfectly.
That do not convert with Foobar2000 functioned. (6_Channel_ID.wma & wmv-surroundtest_720p.wmv)
------------------------------------------

New Testsystem : "Microsoft Virtual PC" !!!
Microsoft Windows XP Professional ( Service Pack 2 )
Sound : Sound Blaster 16
Speeker Settings: 5.1 Surround Sound

The 6Channel WAVfile does not play correctly.
That convert with Foobar2000+Beesweet functioned however perfectly.(6_Channel_ID.wma & wmv-surroundtest_720p.wmv)
Miracle over miracles.

[krazyklown]

Ok guys, I registered so I can ask you something. I've done everything that you guys have said but it wont work for me. I've spent months looking for a solution for this but i cant get it
to work. Please, can one of you people give me instructions from beggining to end on how you do this? I'd highly appreiciate it.
-Thanx

Oh and I wanna know what versions you have of the software you use.
The Foobar 2000 thing doesnt do a thing but says "conversion failed"
after everything i do to it. It's hard.

[krazyklown]

INFO (CORE) : startup time: 90 ms
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.

I tell ya. Nothing works. I am using that 6_Channel_ID.wma track, I have tryed everything in the options menu in Foobar 2000, the latest one and the "Special Edition" but this program wont do what it's told. Yes I tryed converting it in 6ch WAVe 32bit (single-file) it just says ERROR.
BeSweet GUI cannot start on my Windows XP (does my OS matter?),
WIll Foobar run properly on WIndows XP?
I wish i could show you the options I put for Foobar 2000, but i dont know where to upload images to. I'll probably find a way.
Did Ramicio have an XP? I dont know if the OS matters but Buffman has Win2000 and he got through this ok.
IT's driving me insane. I cant find the solution.

[JnZ]

Originally posted by krazyklown
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.


Hi, guys! I check this forum after months, and what I see?

So I think, that You, guys, don't have installed WMV9 runtimes correctly or something...
1)In first step You try to play WMV in win, if plays correctly.
2) Then try to open and play in Foobar 2000.
3) Try to convert to 32bit float WAVe.
4) Convert WAVe to six separate mono WAVes.
5) Convert 6 WAVes to AC3

In my conversion, I use Foobar 2000 v0.8.3 Special.

[krazyklown]

I tryed reinstalling Windows Media 9, still stuck.
DO I have to put all of the WM9 files in the Foobar directory? OH and I have a SoundBlaster Audigy 2 Platinum, if that makes it easier to solve.
AM I doing anything wrong in this pic?
http://www.geocities.com/david.vaz@sbcglobal.net/1a.txt

[krazyklown]

anyone know?

[JnZ]

Originally posted by krazyklown
AM I doing anything wrong in this pic?

Why do You use DSP? Some filters? Maybe error is there...
Try without DSP first...

[krazyklown]

didnt make a difference. WHat settings do you have it on?
Someone should make a guide for this

[krazyklown]

hello?

[krazyklown]

AH HA! I found the problem! I DIDNT HAVE foo_wma.dll!!!
Geez that whole time I didnt know I had a missing DLL. Thanx anyways, guys. :)

Edit: copy this link to the address bar
http://www.geocities.com/escapesjunkyard/foo_wma.zip

[freaky_00]

I have used Windows Media Stream Editor to extract both audio tracks of my german TOTAL RECALL SE WMV HD. Now I have 2 multichannel wma files and foobar will not play them. WMP can play the files perfectly!!! I don't even understand what you guys did to extract these files!!! If I try to run the conversion (of the 6channel.exe wma posted before) foobar says:

INFO (CORE) : startup time: 78 ms
ERROR (foo_diskwriter) : Conversion failed.

I have installed foobar2000 v.0.8.3 Special BECAUSE I need to convert wma to ac3 too. I already have made an xvid of the video but still need the audio. Could someone explain step by step what they have done.

@krazyklown
About the wma plugin foobar says:

INFO (CORE) : startup time: 110 ms
ERROR (CORE) : Failed to load DLL: foo_wma_ansi.dll, reason: Wrong version number; this component appears to have been built with outdated version of foobar2000 SDK and needs to be recompiled with newer version in order to load; please contact author of this component to obtain an updated version of this component.
ERROR (CORE) : Failed to load DLL: foo_wma_unicode.dll, reason: Wrong version number; this component appears to have been built with outdated version of foobar2000 SDK and needs to be recompiled with newer version in order to load; please contact author of this component to obtain an updated version of this component.


Could you please help me? Does anyone know of an alterate tool which can do the conversion???

[stephanV]

did you get foobar from here --> http://www.saunalahti.fi/cse/foobar2000.php (special installer)

make you sure you enable WMA input, when installing...

if the files wont play in foobar, they certainly wont convert.

[JnZ]

Yes, as StephanV says, You guys, must have Foobar 2000 Special, with WMA plugin. First, try to play WMV in Foobar 2000, if audio plays, then all ok, and You may try conversion.

[freaky_00]

Well I downloaded it from www.foobar2000.org!!! Thanks but I don't like this friggin installer!!! This piece of crap doesn't install all input and output filters automatically!?!

Now I just need A LOT of empty space on my drives!!!

[freaky_00]

I use WinXP Pro and the 6channel wav foobar creates has the correct channel order. Just to be sure I will still use JnZ's method!!!

[[)370|\|470!2]

Damn. Does not work 4 me. Each conversion ends up w/ 8gB(when set to 32float)
or 4 gB(when set to fixed) and the length of it is 1min 34sec each time. Wma is 48kHz 24bit 5.1 2.05hrs long. Arrrgh

[tebasuna51]

You can demux this 4 GB wav_6_chan (16 bits) in 6 mono wav 2.05 hrs long with Tranzcode_GUI.

In the wav header there are a field four bytes long for the size, for a six channel, 16 bits, 48 KHz only permit 124 min. Foobar2000 put in this field the excess over 124 min. (other software stop the counter in 124 min.) then you have more than 125 min. in the wav.

In Tranzcode_GUI open the wav like DTSWAV(*.wav). It admit also PCM WAV

Edit: For the 8 GB (32 bits float) you can try the same program (if you need more quality and the WMA is 24 bits) but I don't test it.

[[)370|\|470!2]

Kewl. Charming. Didn't tried it w/ 24bit tho - lack of diskspace. 10q m8! :goodpost:

[DreckSoft]

I tried to convert a 6ch WMA to 6ch WAV and I can confim it won't work with Win2k. Same Foobar2000 config works with XP Pro. Maybe one day someone can remove this restriction from the WMAPro decoder... (fuck M$ - I won't install SpywareOS on my PC just to decode 5.1 WMA)