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View Full Version : Abyss SE Seamless Branching Cheat Sheet


Trahald
9th February 2004, 07:11
Well.. soon what i am about to type may be obsolete with features that will someday be added to dvddecrypter and sceneaid being finalized. but i figure.. heck with it.. in the mean while i'll type up this cheat sheet

so here goes

The Abyss SE NTSC-- cheat sheet --

Abyss is a seamless branching aka Seamless multi-story disk. You have the option to play the theatrical version or to play the special edition. It saves space by using common vobids for both versions but unique parts come with separate vobids which are weaved together to provide seamless playback. Scenarist doesnt support this, but what we are going to make will play nearly seamlessly on most standalones (perfect on softwareplayers).. so you may notice a small pause. It has no real extras (just slideshows in the menus).

1. Fire up doitfast4u. It will tag 2 of the 4 main movie PGCs. We already know we need to do vobid for seamless branching dvds so we pick Demux by vobid.

2. Make sure you use dvd2avidg version. Its in the avseditor options. important when doing vobid demux

3. Setup your normal options. dont have it linked to encode, though. just prepare the assets. Hit doit

4. Hopefully you are a vip contributor because vobid and subs are slow as heck on the stable version. Beta is lightning fast. Proceed when its done

5. All the vobids have different audio delays so we have to fix that. This step will be easier when hopefully dvddecrypter gives the delays on vobid demux. Currently it does not. For now.. i did this:
a. Start up DvdDecrypter. Switch to File Mode. I used a different directory than my doif4u files. In settings under file mode, make sure split by vobid is set to on. select the main vts vobs (vts_04_x.vob except vts_04_0.vob) and decrypt.
b. Make a script similar to this one line and put it in a batch file 'for %%x in (*.VOB ) do dvd2avicli -FO=0 -CS=2 -TN=0 -DD=2 -IF[%%x] -OF[%%x] -exit' (i got this from OxP's seamless branching guide. i put a copy of dvd2avicli into my drive path (c:\windows) so i wouldnt have to use the path in the script. ) execute the .bat(batch file) .. it will demux all your audios (2 in this case) for every vobid and include the delay value (it also makes .d2v files but we arent going to use them). Again make sure we are doing this part in a separate folder from your doitfast4u files.
c. run ac3correcter (in the dif4u install dir) on every ac3 file. i did the t01 (stream 1 or x80) first, then used a batch renamer to add the x80 so i would be able to tell it was the first stream. then i did the t02 (stream 2 or x81) files and also renamed them
d. now you have audio files with the delays taken out

6. Now make a cce vobid chapter file using ifoupdate, the non-film option(also make scenarist vobid chapter files while your there, we'll need them later). load your ccedata.txt into batchccews. then load the corresponding cce chapter file for each vobid and update each one. then encode.

7. then wait

8. Heres the second part that will be better in the future. for now we will have to build the scenarist script manually. In the future, scenaid will do it for us.
a. Open a new scenarist project(open scenarist using RB's Sceneimport. Defaults are fine, just make sure you set default to drop frame in the menu (as mentioned in the t2 guide). also set vts sets to 4 when it asks.
b. drop all your video assets onto the track editor. right click the yellow folder at the top of the track list and pick sort by name. then add your audios (the ac3 delay corrected ones, not the ones doitfast4u made) to all your tracks(vobids). also load in your corresponding vobid chapter files using import chapter menu option.
c. Right click your vts4 folder in the scenario editor and hit make title. make 4 total. Refering to your ifo lay your first 2 pgcs (title 1 and title2) refer liberally to OxP's T2 guide. you basically lay the tracks in vobid order going back and forth between the 2 titles.. you have to lay them in number order (in other words dont lay vobid 6 before you lay vobid 5.) oxps guide explains more. once your done you can lay title3 and 4 one at a time since scenarist now knows the vobid order we want.
d. now import all of your 3 subs to each corresponding vobid(track)
e. i have a 720x480 bmp picture file that i use for certain scenarist projects. make one with mspaint and drop that onto your other 3 vts set folders in the scenario editor. you wont be using those vts sets.. they are just place holders.
f. compile

9. Now just copying your vts4 vob files into your doitf4u video_ts folder. ifoupdate (normal mode and dont copy sub tables) and your done

notes: Dont deselect the audios in doitfast4u. Even though we dont use the ones it makes, we need it to factor in the size into its final calculations. Using the dvd2avicli to make the ac3's still results in perfect synced audio (without correcting the delays the sound is waaayy off on many of the vobids)

RB
9th February 2004, 15:29
There's an easier way to reencode seamlessly branched PGCs.

As you suggested, rip in file mode and split by VobId. Identify the VobIds that make up the seamlessly branched PGCs and load them into DVD2AVI in VobId order. Create the D2V project, demuxing all audio tracks as well. Encode the whole thing. The CCE and Scenarist chapter files will be a problem because you'll have to create them manually, you'll need a chapter for every cell.

To rip subtitles, you'll have to use SubRip (it will automatically load the split-by-VobId VOBs) because VobSub can only work with PGCs.

Then import the M2V and AC3s into Scenarist, create the single track from it, import chapters. Now in Scenario Editor, recreate the layout by dragging scenes from the track into the proper PGCs/programs.

RB
9th February 2004, 20:28
Or, as I think about it, an even easier way that keeps seamless playback at least for one version of the movie.

Again rip in file mode and split by VobId. Create two directories, one for the version that you want to playback seamlessly and one for the other version. Move the VobIds and the IFO for your desired seamless version into the first directory and rename them to VTS_0X_Y.VOB (Y counting up from 1) so VsRip can work with them. Run DVD2AVI and VsRip over these VOBs, encode as normal.

Create a subdirectory for each VobId that your seamless version doesn't have in the second directory, move each of those VobIds and the IFO into the appropriate subdirectory, rename to VTS_0X_1.VOB (again for VsRip compatibility). Run VsRip and DVD2AVI separately for each of these VOBs. In VsRip make sure you select the PGC that has the VobId the renamed VOB actually represents and select just that VobId. Encode.

In both cases just let DVD2AVI extract the audio. Use IFOUpdate to get chapter files, make sure to check "Chaps for VobId authoring". Use the PGC0x file for your seamless version and the VobId-0x files for the VobId encodes.

At the Scenarist step you now have a large track for your seamless version and several smaller ones that belong to the other version. Import the appropriate chapter files. Use the large track to create the PGC for your seamless version. Now recreate the PGC for the other version by dragging over scenes from either the large or the smaller tracks, just as the original IFO is structured.

Eyes`Only
9th February 2004, 20:46
not sure how i understand your use of the word, 'easier' :)

RB
9th February 2004, 20:56
Uh, point taken :). Surely not something for beginners and I didn't go into every detail. But something that could be easily automated by DoItFast4U. Anyway the Scenarist step is really easier as you can recreate at least one title by simply dragging over an entire track (unless chapters have multiple cells...)

Eyes`Only
9th February 2004, 21:09
True, it would be a bit easier for that one track, even though I'm sure chapters will have multiple cells, I can't remember a title that didn't. Hopefully, sceneaid will get more stable and reliable and all these issues will be behind us though, at least, that's how i'm envisioning the near future.

D3s7
9th February 2004, 22:10
<shrug>

i just did this one the other day w/ Sceneaid... that sure was "easier" for me :D

Eyes`Only
9th February 2004, 23:36
yeah well.. you use your non-released beta builds so that's not fair!

Trahald
10th February 2004, 02:55
@d3s7 & eyes yeah, really! ;)

well.. i like both ideas, #2 is really good.. id probably do the SE that way. i was trying to stay within the parameters of big 3 where all i would have to do in the future is add sceneaid to replace step 8 and a newer dvddecrypter to replace step 5. Good stuff, though. I know some people have been struggling with seamless branch, so this will give them some good ideas as to where to go with it.

D3s7
10th February 2004, 13:08
Originally posted by Eyes`Only
yeah well.. you use your non-released beta builds so that's not fair!

Actually I used last build that's on the website...

matus2003
21st February 2004, 13:24
Hello D3s7.

Thanks for the work you are doing with ScenAid. Can you help me please? I am writing this here, because I have problem backing up Abyss SE R2. Since you wrote you succeed with ScenAid on Abyss, I also gave it a try.

MY PROBLEM: WHEN PLAYING MY BACKUP DVD I HAVE SLIGHT STOP ON EVERY CHANGE OF VOBID. VOBID IS CHANGING, PICTURE STOPS FOR ABOUT 1/2 SEC., THAN CONTINUE. THIS IS PRETTY ANNOYING, AFTER SO MUCH TIME AND EFFORT.

Plese, can you give me advice, how to eliminate this problem? Thanks in advance.

How I did my backup:

1) NuMenu on menu to compress (by the way, I have problems with aspect ratio on compressed menus when playing on my standalone, but I see some remarks on this on forum)
2) DoItFast4U, Demux by VobID
3) since I don't have latest beta of DIF4U, I created d2v manually for all 65 VOBID with DVD2AVIdg
4) manual set of avs scripts (with kind help from RB, thanks), encoding (5 pass 2270 ABR)
5) SceneAid - problems with subs when authoring, so I give it a try without subs and then manually import all subs in Scenarist. Then it went OK.

jel
21st February 2004, 14:42
@ matus2003
congratulations on manually reauthoring such a complex title.
unfortunately i do not believe that the 'slight stop' you are experiencing can be solved, as it is a symptom of your dvd player and how it reacts to the way scenarist authors 'seamlessly branched' titles.
i would bet that if you played the same disk on a pc software player (eg windvd, or powerdvd) you would not see the same 'pause'

Trahald
21st February 2004, 16:15
this is a fun title to do. kudos for doing all that extra manual work.

yeah. ive been searching for an alternative. it really bugs me about the seamless branching. we prepare the assetts as if scenarist can actually do seamless branching. but really were almost better off doing it as rb said and making one seamless pgc of the feature your most likely to watch and then throw the extra vobids for the other feature on the end (ie author your first choice of pgc first in scenarist with all [SM] links.. then author the second pgc which will have [NSM] non seamless links.. although if you watch the second version i would imagine its would be bit more of a delay since it would have to jump a little further to get to those vobids then back again, but your favorite version will play seamlessly

i will continue my search for a way to do it.. and also pray there is a scenarist released that supports seamless branching *multistory* (they planned to do it and there are even greyed icons in 2.6 for extra stories but it never was coded in :( )
its still not there as of 3.0

matus2003
21st February 2004, 16:57
to jel:
If you'd bet, you'd loose. :) At least on my WinDVD Platinium it is the same - slight pause when changing VOBID's.

To trahald:
Yes, it was fun, but I'd expect proper output from all the fun :)

So you think it's not possible to avoid this when authoring seamless branching in Scenarist by vobID's? I am very disappointed.
If it is so, than I have doubt about reauthoring the seamless titles: and to solve it as you are suggesting (one version OK and other worse) than I'd prefer to
1 - keep only prefered version - why waisting the disc space on content that will not play good ???
2 - split on 2 DVDs - when backup both versions, than both versions should play good.

But I believe there is way how to do this. D3s7 wrote he was doing this title, he was even reporting the NuMenu bug regarding the menu in Abyss, so I am wondering if he has the same bug, or if his backup is OK. I'll be glad to hear his opinion on the subject. After all, it was his post here, that encouraged me to do this title with SceneAid ;)

influenza
21st February 2004, 17:16
Well I must say it surprises me that a software player, when playing from the HD (?) shows pauses. I never experienced this behaviour not on my standalone nor on the PC.

matus2003
21st February 2004, 19:17
The problem was when played from disc, but I tried it after your reply, and it's the same when played from HDD.

BUT THE HELL WITH IT:
When checking and comparing the newly authored with original, I noticed the problem (or I suppose this is the problem...)

In PGC structure on original DVD almost every Cell is like:
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/1] (I1Vu) : time:..

But on my authored DVD it is almost everywhere:
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/1] Layer Br.: time:..

I suppose this could be a tough one to play smoothly. I'll try to fix it and see.

influenza
21st February 2004, 19:39
yes that the difference between seamless branching (true seamless branching) and the way you authored it.

I would expect that caching would solve this problem.

matus2003
22nd February 2004, 08:47
influenza:
Can you give me advice, please? Because I set in IfoEdit all the "Cell type (Angle)" to 8, the Layer Br. is out, but still the same problem.

Should I rewrite all values due to original ifo? Because on original DVD the values vary from 6 (only the first one) to 14. Do you think change of these values could somehow help the playback?
Sorry to bother you, but I was looking for some info, and what I find is your theread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69897&highlight=caching As far I can understand the info, that slight pause on VOBID change is something impossible to avoid when reauthoring seamless branching in Scenarist, am I right?

I am wondering if D3s7 had the same problem...

influenza
22nd February 2004, 09:31
I never done the abyss so I really don't know.

I theory there would be a slight pause yes, this should be overcome by the caching a player would do. Obviously yours doesn't, don't think you can do anything about it.

Better ask d3s7 and trahald if they experienced any pauses on their disc.

matus2003
22nd February 2004, 09:53
to influenza:

Thanks anyway.

I am waiting for D3s7 reaction, because he did Abyss, and succesfully I suppose, regarding his reaction in this thread. He's probably bussy now, so I'll wait if he'll shows up.

influenza
22nd February 2004, 10:32
He's probably a sleep )