DVB outside of Europe

[Doom9]

I know DVB is not only limited to Europe but in which countries outside of Europe is it frequently used? I'm especially interested in areas where HDTV is already available. How "big" is DVB for standard resolution digital broadcast for instance in the US, over both cable and satellite?

[DrP]

Australia is in the process of converting FTA to DVB-t. Many areas get at least 1 channel in SD, lots of out of the way areas get nothing in digital yet. The capital cities (sigh) get everything in SD and HD with MPA and AC3 audio.

[MrDarcy]

At www.dvb.org you can find worldwide adoption maps for:

DVB-S (http://www.dvb.org/graphics/internal/WAM-DVB-S.png)
DVB-C (http://www.dvb.org/graphics/internal/WAM-DVB-C.png)
DVB-T (http://www.dvb.org/graphics/internal/WAM-DVB-T.png)

[Herske]

Check out lyngsat and the satellites for other countries except Europe.

You'll find that most countries except USA, Japan and a few more ( 3 or 4) use DVB.

DishNetwork broadcasts HDTV using DVB, but with a different modulation, IIRC.


PS. About those maps: DSS in South America is limited to one package: DirecTV.

[vio]

Autralia again,
Most capital cities get a couple of HDTV channels. Where I live three are 1080i (one mostly upconverted), and 2 are 576p. And they usually only show real 1080i during primetime, the rest is just a demo loop or upconverted. The rest of the channels are SDTV (576i). Current laws do not alow for a single station to broadcast different programs at once, even though they have several channels being broadcast. During the Rugby world cup one the had 3 channels dedicated to it ie, normal, without commentary, and a stats channel. This I believe was the first (and only) multicast. Of course plans are for the Olympics are for something similar, but I dont think I'll be able to switch between the track and field to something like soccer if its on at the same time. And its already confirmed that it will be pillarboxed, yay effecive resolution of 'HDTV' ~ 512x384.

There are also a couple of program guide and service channels but nobody pays attention to them.

Regional areas get SDTV, and maybe one mainly upconverted HDTV depending on where you are. And of course more remote areas still dont get anything watchable.

All DVB-t here is in 16:9 ratio, still a large number of programs are in pillarboxed 4:3, most new shows are in 16:9. I have a 4:3 TV so it makes little difference.

And as DrP said they are currently in the process of getting rid of analog FTA, sometime soon like 2006, still a long way to go.

[Doom9]

hmm.. DVB-C and Opencable in the US? I thought they had ATSC (which is listed for the US in the DVB-T map). Are those maps correct? And does anybody know the difference between DVB-S and DVB-S & Hughes DSS?

[Herske]

DSS (proprietary and non public standard) is slightly different from DVB, enough to make them totally incompatible.

DSS' packet size is 127 bytes as opposed to 188, different FEC rates, different table structure.

Some decent public info at: http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg/#dss

[A|]

Originally posted by Herske
DishNetwork broadcasts HDTV using DVB, but with a different modulation, IIRC.

ALL of DishNetwork and Bell ExpressVu's signals are standard dvb. While there is a defacto standard for modulation in dvb-s (qpsk), dishnet uses 8psk for all but a few hd channels. All of the SD and a couple of the HD chans, and all but one transponder of BEV, are transmited in using DVB-S over qpsk modulation.

This info won't help you out a whole lot, as dishnet/bev will not auth any cam but their own for decryption of the signal. This leaves us in North America with a handfull of free to air signals and a nice selection of free to air radio stations on these sats.

Most of the Programing on KU band in north america is DVB-S. Most of it is niche market (read religious and ethnic) and backhaul signals.

While it might not be the DVB haven that Europe is, there is still alot of material that one in north america with a dish as small as 18" and a $100 pci card can play with. There is just something cool about being able to get into the guts of the underlying data stream.

For anyone that has a DVB card and hasn't seen this program, I highly recomend TSReader. It is a program that gets you closest to the bits of a stream without getting out your hex editor.
http://www.coolstf.com/tsreader/index.html

[slicemaster102]

So technically a Dish subscriber could receive Dish content over a DVB PCI card. All they would need is the appropriate CAM module (and a PCI DVB card that has a CI ‘PC Card’ slot) and their Dish access card, right?

Signed,
Slice

[Doom9]

@slicemaster: you'd still need to have a card that supports the non standard signal modulation. It was mentioned in another thread that there is hardware that can theoretically handle all modulation schemes (and thus be compatible with DVB-S/C/T) but I've yet to see this exposed in an available product.

[slicemaster102]

First off, I’m new to this satellite TV stuff so be patient.
What is modulation? What is the standard DVB modulation type and what does Dish Network use? Why?

Could you give me a link to that thread you mentioned?

Thanks,
Slice

P.S. I know DVB-S and DVB-T are the DVB standard for DVB broadcasts from Satellite and Terrestrial sources respectively. What is DVB-C and what is it used for? I think I read something on it, is it the DVB standard for Digital Cable networks?

[Doom9]

well.. considering that the info is right before your eyes (A I's post and the stickies in this forum: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75876) I wonder why you're asking. Could it be that you expect someone to serve you whatever you require on a silver platter? Sorry if I come off as hostile here but if you have a lot of info in the very same thread on the very same page I don't think I'm asking too much if I expect you to read that and follow the links provided.

[slicemaster102]

Sorry Doom9, I already ready read that, I thought you were talking about a different thread.

Originally posted by A|
ALL of DishNetwork and Bell ExpressVu's signals are standard dvb. While there is a defacto standard for modulation in dvb-s (qpsk), dishnet uses 8psk for all but a few hd channels. All of the SD and a couple of the HD chans, and all but one transponder of BEV, are transmited in using DVB-S over qpsk modulation.

QPSK is DVB-S' standard modulation is it not? And according to A| Dish Network uses QPSK, so what’s the problem besides the condition access issues that could be salved with the appropriate CI module (CAM) and Dish subscription access card (smartcard)?

Signed,
Slice

[Doom9]

dishnet uses 8psk for all but a few hd channels.DVB-S uses QPSK... quadrature phase shift keying isn't the same as 8 level phase shift keying.

the most info I've ever seen about dish network comes from a link from right this thread: http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg/#dss

[slicemaster102]

Originally posted by Doom9
DVB-S uses QPSK... quadrature phase shift keying isn't the same as 8 level phase shift keying.

the most info I've ever seen about dish network comes from a link from right this thread: http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg/#dss

Now that this is clarified I understand.
Anyways, I have been exploring Broadcom’s website (BroadCom manufactures many different PHY level products for the communications industry) and I found that they manufacture a number of universal DVB, DCII, and DirecTV (DSS) compatible tuners that support many modulation types (QPSK, 8PSK, and 16QAM). Why have no PCI tuner manufactures utilized these chipsets for the ultimate in compatibility?

Signed,
Slice

And Example of some of these chipsets is the BCM3440, BCM4201, and the BCM4500

[slicemaster102]

!!NEW!! DVB-S2 to support five modulation types!
It seems that the new DVB-S2 standard will officially support more then one modulation type. Unlike its earlier brother, DVB-S, which only officially supported QPSK. DVB-S2 will officially support five modulation modes, these being BPSK, QPSK, 8PSK, 16APSK, and 32APSK. From what I understand, when the next generation of tuner cards come out supporting the DVB-S2 standard then we should be able to watch our Dish Network television on our computer.

Anyways it seems that Dish Network is broadcasting its DVB-S signal with 8PSK so technically you could say they are using a ghetto-rigged version of DVB-S2. So in all likely hood we should be able to tune in Dish Network with a DVB-S2 compatible tuner, right?

Signed,
Slice

[Doom9]

I suspect that DVB-S2 will be more than just about new modulation types, but I haven't studied the specs yet. Also, as far as I know DISH went online before the DVB standard was finalized (but I wouldn't bet on that.. ).

Either way, you asked a good question as to why cards are limited to a certain modulation scheme and standard. Quite frankly, I've been asking that myself and I don't really have a definitive answer. There are a few possibilities I can imagine: the hardware that handles all types is more expensive than single format chips, so due to the price difference manufacturers chose simpler chipsets. It could also be that the R&D cost for a card that can handle any type of DVB would be higher than the current cards, that driver development would somehow be more time-consuming (but I suspect it would be the inverse actually since you'd only have one product rather than 3), or maybe it's simply a marketing decision, allowing you to sell two cards to a guy who has DVB-S and DVB-T, or wants to switch from one DVB standard to another. Or maybe they think people would get confused seeing DVB-S/-T/-C on a card box or would choose the wrong mode when installing the card software.

Unfortunately, at this time I lack the time required to dig into the multiple digital TV standards there are in the US (mostly.. it's a real shame that we not only have to worry about 3 global standards (DVB, ATSC and ISDB) but also on a couple of proprietary technologies like Digicypher II, DSS, etc) but I think google could help you to some really useful specs that you can compare to the DVB specs available right here in the forum. And if you do, please share your findings so that I can put them in an FAQ and nobody else will have to do his/her own research.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Doom9
Either way, you asked a good question as to why cards are limited to a certain modulation scheme and standard. Quite frankly, I've been asking that myself and I don't really have a definitive answer.... Or maybe they think people would get confused seeing DVB-S/-T/-C on a card box or would choose the wrong mode when installing the card software. Personally I think it's just another way to screw prospective customers for more money!

Having a set top box, USB or PCI card that could receive the three main types of digital TV would be the 'holy-grail' of all devices. And I don't think it would be any more or less confusing for the customer... the devices should be capable of auto detecting the incoming signal anyway!


Cheers