wierd problem with picture quality

[rancho1]

hi guys,
this thing is driving me nuts. i just made copys of the whole season 3 of the x-files. i used dvd2svd and the picture quality is outstanding as usuall. anyway than i started with the forth season x-files and the quality droped down to, well let me just call it trash. everytime something is moving in the picture you can see only ugly little compression squars. than i thought maybe try another encoder. so i switch from CCE 2.67.00.23 to CCE 2.67.00.11. nothing changend. same with all the other encoders CCE 2.5, Tmpeg, Procoder. the picture always looks like sh**t. than i turned off the second audiochannel (dropt down the quality of the first audiochannel to 128) and the subtitles. (by the way the of the 3. season was still great wiht 2 audiochannels and 2 subs) anyway i decreased the bitrate between 2200-2530kb/sec used 4pass for encoding with CCE 2.66. CCE 2.67 and all the other CCE's i mentions before but nothing changed the picture quality.

I'm realy kind of lost here. it must have something to do with this season, because i tried again one episode of season 3 and everything was fine. even when i copy a movie to svcd the quality is great. only season 4 of that x-files stuff causes trouble.

so what could be the problem? i spend already so much time with it, that i kind of asked myself if i realy still like x-files that much. :-)

thanks guys

here is the log file of my last try:

WNASPI32.DLL 4.6.0.1021
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 12:17:08
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
- K:\XFILES_DISC1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
- K:\XFILES_DISC1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
- K:\XFILES_DISC1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 12:17:12
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[K:\x-files\1\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[K:\XFILES_DISC1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob,K:\XFILES_DISC1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob]
Framerate: 25000
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 12:18:44
- Free on drive H: 468.70 mb
- Free on drive K: 25980.85 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: -104 ms
Framerate: 25000
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 12:20:39
- Free on drive H: 468.70 mb
- Free on drive K: 25917.11 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Encoding Audio. Filename: K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "K:\x-files\1\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "K:\x-files\1\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -ota( -d -104 ) -2lame( -e -b 128 -m s )
Audio conversion of K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 12:25:29
- Free on drive H: 468.70 mb
- Free on drive K: 25874.73 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
Finished converting pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 12:25:38
- Free on drive H: 468.70 mb
- Free on drive K: 25873.94 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 833937188
AudioSectors: 45111164
VideoPAPO: 12219336
ScanOffsetBytes: 83302
SeqAligningBytes: 5294279
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 0.00
PureMPEGStream: 771229102.93
Seconds: 2781.72
CalcMPEGStream: 771229102.93
Frames: 69418
CDSize: 800.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 795.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 69418
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 4
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: Multipass VBR
Min. bitrate: 2200
Max. bitrate: 2530
Avg. Bitrate: 2217
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("H:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1\Mpeg2dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("K:\x-files\1\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
BicubicResize(480,576,0.0,0.6)
Import("K:\x-files\1\ResampleAudio.avs")
ResampleAudio(44100)
ConvertToYUY2()
----AVS End----

Closing program
CCE Max Speed: 0.000
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 16:16:49
- Free on drive H: 468.69 mb
- Free on drive K: 25123.11 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 16:16:51
- Free on drive H: 468.69 mb
- Free on drive K: 25123.11 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "K:\x-files\1\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 16:16:55
- Free on drive H: 468.69 mb
- Free on drive K: 25123.07 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 16:16:58
- Free on drive H: 468.69 mb
- Free on drive K: 25123.07 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "K:\x-files\1\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 16:21:00
- Free on drive H: 468.69 mb
- Free on drive K: 24330.96 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: K:\x-files\1\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2774.424 seconds K:\x-files\1\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 16:21:39
- Free on drive H: 468.69 mb
- Free on drive K: 24330.96 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 12

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --verbose --cue-file="K:\x-files\1\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue" --bin-file="K:\x-files\1\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "K:\x-files\1\VCDXBU~1.XML"
Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 16:25:01
- Free on drive H: 468.69 mb
- Free on drive K: 23527.95 mb
- Conversion done!
--------------------------------------------------------

[Vespers]

rancho1
I am no expert by any means but 2 things out of your log file jump out at me.

PictureSectors: 0.00
CCE Max Speed: 0.000

I typically use D2sRoba for all my encoding now so my logs look a bit different than yours.
Have you tried ripping the vobs using vstrip or DVDDecrypter and then running DVD2SVCD from file mode? Hopefully one or more of the experts here can shed more light on this for you. Best of luck..........

[Nick]

@Vespers
Firstly, from the log file I think DVD2SVCD was being used in File mode. Which makes me wonder what was used to rip the files.
Secondly for some reason you posted your reply as a separate thread! I assume this was an error and have merged the threads accordingly.

@Rancho1
Firstly a very warm welcome to the forum. A fine effort for a first post might I say. Clearly you took the trouble to read the rules and stickies.
Secondly I am going to move this post to basic - this is essentially a problem post and so really belongs in the basic forum. At any rate the basic forum gets more traffic so you will probably get more help there.
Thirdly what did you use to rip the files? Is there any reason why you didn't use internal routines? If not please give them a try. DVD2SVCD tends to work better with its internal ripper than external ones.
Finally the only thing I see in the logfile (other than Vespers spotted) is that your minimum bitrate is set quite high - only 17 below the average bitrate calculated to fill the disc. With vbr encoding bits are saved from low motion scenes to allow increased bitrate to be used in high motion scenes. If you are only allowing the bitrate to drop 17 kbps below the average, there will be barely any spare bits available to do this. You almost might as well be encoding CBR! I would significantly lower your min bitrate setting to, say 500. This will save lots of bits on low motion scenes and allow the bitrate to "max out" in these scenes where quality is poor.
It will have a grave effect on encoding time but if that's a problem have a look at the D2SRoBa plugin. There's a FAQ in the basic forum.

[Vespers]

Nick
Thanks for fixing the thread, I was crossreading from three different threads and I guess I goofed when posting.

[scharfis_brain]

hm.. the PAL-TV version of the X-Files was a lousy NTSC->PAL conversion with blendfields.
Maybe the DVD is the same like the PAL-TV Version.
This means it is interlaced.
Because of this 2 to 3 Mbps are totally insufficient for encoding.

[rancho1]

thanx guys,
for your reply. well i guess i will answer in some points to make it easier.
1. Ripping:
i'm using dvd decrypter because of some reason the internal dvd ripper of dvd2svcd is not working for me anymore. i don't know why but since couple of weeks dvd2svcd stops to respond when is hit the conversion button. i just can see the window "Analysing Video, please wait..." and then i can wait for days for days and nothing happens. i tried different versions and even on my second OS i have installed on my computer, but for some reason the internal ripping is not working, not even with vstrip.

2. Encoding:
fist of all i like the bitrate a little bit higher because sometime if realy nothing is moving in the picture in the ecodingrate is only 500 the picture looks more like a freeze than a acutally video or dvd picture. but that log file i gave you was just the one to figure out if anything changes if i turn the settings this high, but nothing did. the picture still looked creepy. so let me rephrase that the quality was the same with - max bitrate: 2530 min bitrate: 500 compared to the Max. bitrate: 2530 Min. bitrate: 2200. nothing changed at all.

3. Deinterlacing
seems that scharfis_brain made a point here. usually i just leave the Deinterlace menu just to no deinterlace and everything works fine, but last time i changed it to Telecide (PAL) and the picture quality looks now a bit better. I'm thinking even to live with it.
anyway i looked trough the files and for me it seems the picture is interlaced. oviously they have to make a change from NTSC to PAL (did i mentioned that i'm from a PAL country? and the dvds are also PAL) but what kind of idots are working there and encoding the dvds, because i just did a check and it seems to be i have the same problems with season one of the x-files. so how can it be that i don't have problems with season two and three, but one and four just suck. are those companys testing there equipment or what? by the way, even if 2 to 3Mbps are quite low for a dvd, the other seasons must be the same, because there are also 4 episodes on one dvd, so that can't be the problem, or am i wrong?
so I'm trying now Blendfields and lets see if something changes.

4. new question
is there any program out there like g-spot that lets me figure out if the dvd is interlaced ot progressive?

thanx again and see you later, rancho1


just to make it complete here is the log file again of my last try

WNASPI32.DLL 4.6.0.1021
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 17:05:56
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
- K:\XFILES_DISC1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
- K:\XFILES_DISC1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
- K:\XFILES_DISC1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 17:05:58
- Analyzing subtitles
--------------------------------------------------------
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x22 Language: Español
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x21 Language: Deutsch
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x20 Language: English
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x23 Language: English

Executing subtitle selection/verification.
Subtitle selection/verification accepted.
2 subtitle streams selected.
Saving Subtitles ini file
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 17:06:28
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: P4/SSE2

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[K:\x-files\1\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[K:\XFILES_DISC1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob,K:\XFILES_DISC1\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob]
Framerate: 25000
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 17:08:07
- Free on drive H: 469.65 mb
- Free on drive K: 27994.93 mb
- Extracting the subtitles.
--------------------------------------------------------

Subtitle extraction finished. Extracted these subtitles:
SVCD Stream no: 1 Language: Deutsch Num. of subs: 550
SVCD Stream no: 2 Language: English Num. of subs: 506

Saving Subtitles ini file
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 17:12:56
- Free on drive H: 469.65 mb
- Free on drive K: 27983.12 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Found AC3 stream id: 0x81
Filename: K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_2.ac3
Audio1 delay: -104 ms
Audio2 delay: -88 ms
Framerate: 25000
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 17:15:09
- Free on drive H: 469.65 mb
- Free on drive K: 27855.82 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Encoding Audio. Filename: K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "K:\x-files\1\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "K:\x-files\1\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -ota( -d -104 ) -2lame( -e -b 160 -m s )
Audio conversion of K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.


Encoding Audio. Filename: K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_2.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_2.ac3" -output "K:\x-files\1\Encoded_audio_2.mp2" -logfile "K:\x-files\1\Encoded_audio_2.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -ota( -d -88 ) -2lame( -e -b 160 -m s )
Audio conversion of K:\x-files\1\Extracted_audio_2.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 17:24:36
- Free on drive H: 469.65 mb
- Free on drive K: 27749.89 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
Finished converting pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 17:24:45
- Free on drive H: 469.65 mb
- Free on drive K: 27749.09 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 833937188
AudioSectors: 112774424
VideoPAPO: 11171196
ScanOffsetBytes: 83302
SeqAligningBytes: 5294279
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 5156956
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 0.00
PureMPEGStream: 699457026.93
Seconds: 2781.72
CalcMPEGStream: 699457026.93
Frames: 69418
CDSize: 800.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 789.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 69418
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 3
Image Quality: 23
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: Multipass VBR
Min. bitrate: 2200
Max. bitrate: 2530
Avg. Bitrate: 2011
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("H:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
LoadPlugin("H:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1\INVERS~1\decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("K:\x-files\1\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
Telecide()
BicubicResize(480,576,0.0,0.6)
Import("K:\x-files\1\ResampleAudio.avs")
ResampleAudio(44100)
ConvertToYUY2()
----AVS End----

Closing program
CCE Max Speed: 0.000
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 21:12:46
- Free on drive H: 469.65 mb
- Free on drive K: 27062.65 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 21:12:49
- Free on drive H: 469.64 mb
- Free on drive K: 27062.65 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "K:\x-files\1\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 21:12:53
- Free on drive H: 469.64 mb
- Free on drive K: 27062.61 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 21:12:55
- Free on drive H: 469.64 mb
- Free on drive K: 27062.61 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 789 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "K:\x-files\1\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 21:18:15
- Free on drive H: 469.65 mb
- Free on drive K: 26273.82 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: K:\x-files\1\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2757.936 seconds K:\x-files\1\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing finished.

Saving Subtitle Timecodes.
SVCD subtitles.
Length of K:\x-files\1\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2757
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 21:18:53
- Free on drive H: 469.65 mb
- Free on drive K: 26272.22 mb
- Multiplexing CVD Subtitles
--------------------------------------------------------
Muxing Deutsch subtitles, CD 1
Muxing English subtitles, CD 1
Executing SubMux. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\WinSubMux\WinSubMux.exe" "K:\x-files\1\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg" -l "K:\x-files\1\sub\SubLog1.txt" -s0 -C "K:\x-files\1\sub\de1-1.sub" "K:\x-files\1\bbMPEG_Muxed_File-subbed00.mpg" -s1 -C "K:\x-files\1\sub\en2-1.sub"
Muxing subtitles finished
--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 21:21:06
- Free on drive H: 469.65 mb
- Free on drive K: 25478.81 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 12

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"H:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --verbose --cue-file="K:\x-files\1\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue" --bin-file="K:\x-files\1\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "K:\x-files\1\VCDXBU~1.XML"
Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 24.01.2004 21:24:06
- Free on drive H: 469.65 mb
- Free on drive K: 24674.39 mb
- Conversion done!
--------------------------------------------------------

[ralphthedog]

If you preview the vob files in DVD2AVI it will tell you if it's interlaced or progressive.

Do you actually have combing type interlaced artifacts in your encoded stuff, or when you click the preview button in DVD2SVCD? If you do you can always try "keep interlaced" and an interlaced template in CCE 2.67. Might make it even harder to compress though?!


Maybe you should consider trying to use a few avisynth filters (internal or plugins) to help with compression?

Try using Bilinear resize instead of Bicubic too.

[scharfis_brain]

did i mentioned that i'm from a PAL country?
I just looked for your vertical resolution, to determine wether you are using NTSC or PAL, hehe

there are serveral techniques to convert NTSC to PAL.
the one is for lazy guys, it totally messes up Film parts of a NTSC-Source when converted to PAL
the other is a intelligent one, which does a Inverse Telcine and then a PAL-Speedup so the resulting PAL Video has no interlacing.

I'ts like the german Episodes of Enterprise.
the First Season was Progressive and had a very nice crisp picture
(maybe a conversion from HDTV 24p)
but the 2nd Season was totally interlaced due to a stupid NTSC -> PAL conversion. ALso to picture was blurry and then sharpened after that process. Nearly unwatchable....