Problems with MP4Creator/MP4UI

[K-Dash]

Is anyone experiencing problems with the new XviD beta3 file in a MP4 container? I can't seem to have it load properly in either MP4UI or MP4creator.

edit: changed thread title

[bond]

1) as this topic doesnt belong to the mp4menu thread i splitted it

2) :readfaq: mp4creator/mp4ui cant handle b-frames right when muxing to mp4 - dont use it!
use the 3ivx mp4 muxer instead

[symonjfox]

Hi, I noticed the same problem as K-Dash had.
I have to say that beta 2 worked well with Mp4ui and Mp4creator (0.9x).

Now, with beta3, I always get the NOT ISMA COMPILANT error (with or without Packed Bitstream). In the beginning, I didn't pay much attention, and I kept these files, they played correctly. Now I found an error that bores me. I can't seek on the file, else it freezes 3ivx decoder or Nero Digital decoder.

Then I read this topic and I want to try to demux and remux these files using Graphedit.

The result works well, except that when I try to seek, it seems that the player try to decode anything before the point I want to reach, so in a big file, it takes several minutes before reaching the right point.

[bond]

symonjfox,
did you try to en/disable the "use frame accurate seeking" in the 3ivx splitter, maybe that causes the seeking troubles!?

[symonjfox]

I tried to disable it. Nothing has changed. :(

Xvid beta 3 is the problem! I tried to mux an old dev3 xvid to mp4, and another Xvid beta 2, no problems.

My settings:
704,576 anamorpic 16:9, No packed bitstream, 2 pass, Qpel, VHQ4, Chroma motion. Everything else at default.

The problems is shown also with other settings (eg. No Qpel, or MPEG quant ...).

I've no time to test today, Can anybody test if anamorphic encode is the matter? or Xvid itself is the matter?

PS: Also Nero Digital Decoder had this problem while playback ...

[shitowax]

Sounds like keyframes info are lost when remuxing ... I'm gonna do some tests with the 3ivx muxer and xvid beta 3.

Originally posted by symonjfox
I tried to disable it. Nothing has changed. :(

Xvid beta 3 is the problem! I tried to mux an old dev3 xvid to mp4, and another Xvid beta 2, no problems.

My settings:
704,576 anamorpic 16:9, No packed bitstream, 2 pass, Qpel, VHQ4, Chroma motion. Everything else at default.

The problems is shown also with other settings (eg. No Qpel, or MPEG quant ...).

I've no time to test today, Can anybody test if anamorphic encode is the matter? or Xvid itself is the matter?

PS: Also Nero Digital Decoder had this problem while playback ...

[symonjfox]

Originally posted by shitowax
Sounds like keyframes info are lost when remuxing ... I'm gonna do some tests with the 3ivx muxer and xvid beta 3.
I think the problem is in the ISMA compilance (the problem that mp4ui shows me), because if I turn it off it works (with this kind of bug in seeking).

Now I'm testing with a Divx5 file in MP4 to see the difference. I think that the matter is Xvid b3 itself.
Divx test works!
It sounds strange that nobody else noticed this trouble ...
Once I thought it was a kind of software problem, but after a refresh of my winxp ... and some testing ...

[Drachir]

Ich have the same problem when I use mp4creator ( versio 1.0 Linux ) with XviD 1Beta3 (avidemux2/1B-frame).

I can't seek in the file with:

3ivx DShow filter
xine/mplayer

I can seek with:

VLC 7.0
Fraunhofer IIS MPEG-4 Player

I would like to repair this file but a demux/remux with Graphedit/3ivx muxer dont help.

[Stux]

If someone can post a link to a small file which exhibits the problem (or PM) or email a small clip to bugs@3ivx.com we'll try and take a look to see what's up.

Thankyou.

[Phobos]

maybe doom9 should update the mp4 guide to warn about b-frames... so is this a 3ivX problem or Xvid problem???

edit: well i read a little more thoroughly and it seems its xvid fault, would anybod post a link for xvid 1.0 b2 binaries?? i want some working mp4s FAST you know ;)

[Koepi]

The problem is muxing with mp4ui. Use the 3ivx muxer in graphedit to create your mp4 file and everything will work just fine.

(MP4UI isn't bugfree, you know...).

Regards
Koepi

[Phobos]

thnx a lot koepi

[symonjfox]

Originally posted by Koepi
The problem is muxing with mp4ui. Use the 3ivx muxer in graphedit to create your mp4 file and everything will work just fine.

(MP4UI isn't bugfree, you know...).

Regards
Koepi Tested!
I forgot to post in this thread ;) :D

[Phobos]

im afraid not, i suxxesfuly (LOL :D ) muxed my movie via 3ivx and graphedit and osmo4 shows a very stuttery movie :rolleyes:

[Koepi]

Phobos:

known issue between libavcodec/ffdshow and xvid's packed bitstream with more than 1 bframe enabled.

Koepi

[Phobos]

i didnt use packet bitstream...

it plays well with ffdshow, it stutters in osmo!!

[bond]

tough osmo4 is the most advanced systems 2d player (supported content wise) its still in early alpha stage

phobos, if you have problems with osmo4 the best is surely to make a bug report on the gpac sf page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/gpac/, cause only that way jeanlf can make osmo4 more stable

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yep it's a shame that XviD encodes don't work with MP4UI!

I just tried running an DivX5.1.1 encode thru the DivX5.0.2 MP4 file creator and MP4UI had no problems at all with it!

It's a pity you can't run XviD encodes thru' it as well.

Cheers



EDIT: It's also a shame there's not a tool like MP4UI for .avi containered encodes... If there was we could call it aviUI ;)

[Phobos]

dvd2mp4 gui is also in gpacs source code, i would compile it but its too dificult for me, it would be cool if anybody could do that and maybe rarewarez would host it :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

I realise that this thread is principally about XviD and MP4UI. However, I did not feel it appropriate to start a new thread about this.....

Anyway, I've just generated some more DivX5.0.2 tests using both Lame Mp3 audio and Radium Mp3 audio.

Is there any reason why an Radium Mp3 audio stream can be 'extracted' as a .bin file and play ok in say, MPC. But an Lame Mp3 audio stream cannot?

In fact all my DivX5.0.2/Lame(v0.9.0)-3.92 Stable encodes don't produce 'stable' audio in an MP4 container at all!

I wonder if there is another, newer version of Lame that possibly could?

Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Is there any reason why an Radium Mp3 audio stream can be 'extracted' as a .bin file and play ok in say, MPC. But an Lame Mp3 audio stream cannot?hm interesting, but i dont see a reason why to extract a mp3 stream to a .bin file anyways

In fact all my DivX5.0.2/Lame(v0.9.0)-3.92 Stable encodes don't produce 'stable' audio in an MP4 container at all!hm even if you try to mux with the latest 3ivx muxer?

Originally posted by Phobos
dvd2mp4 gui is also in gpacs source codereally? i didnt find it but maybe i am just too blind :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
hm interesting, but i dont see a reason why to extract a mp3 stream to a .bin file anyways True, but it was the only way I could think of to check the stability of Mp3 audio streams within an MP4 container!

Already it seems apparent that Lame Mp3 audio streams do not work in an Mp4 container but Radium Mp3 audio streams do!

After all, we would not want users blaming the container, when it's the codecs fault!

Originally posted by bond
hm even if you try to mux with the latest 3ivx muxer? I have not tried the 3viX muxer. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to pay for this application?

Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I have not tried the 3viX muxer. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to pay for this application?nope its free
btw i didnt had problems muxing lame into mp4 with 3ivx

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
nope its free
btw i didnt had problems muxing lame into mp4 with 3ivx
Hi bond,

Can you confirm which version of Lame are you using?
Does the file sound OK when played back in say, MPC?
What tools are you using to mux Mp4 with 3viX?

Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Can you confirm which version of Lame are you using?hm i guess it was lame 3.93 tough i doubt that lame is buggy
i guess the problem is mp4ui

Does the file sound OK when played back in say, MPC?yep

What tools are you using to mux Mp4 with 3viX?graphedit
you will find a link to it and to a guide in the mp4 faq

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks for the info bond.

I've just installed Lame ACM (v3.95.1) and the same problem persists!

When I generate an DivX5.1.1 .avi encode with the Lame audio codec at 128kbps. It will play fine in both software and hardware players.

However, when I run it through DivX's (v5.0.2) 'MP4 Creator' the audio becomes fragmented.

But when I do the same using Radium audio codec, everything works well!

With regard to graphedit, I must admit I have not used this tool at all yet.... I will have to give it a go!

Cheers

[bond]

plz forget this divx502 mp4 muxer, dont use it with avi files with b-frames!!! the output is borked!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
plz forget this divx502 mp4 muxer, dont use it with avi files with b-frames!!! the output is borked! Agreed,

I tend to stay away from using B-frames, GMC and Qpel in my encodes anyway (apart from testing). As doing often creates too many variables!

Have you had any luck with mp4UI 1.0 Alpha 1?

Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Have you had any luck with mp4UI 1.0 Alpha 1?nope, i didnt even get a response to my bugreport on sf :(

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
nope, i didnt even get a response to my bugreport on sf :( Me neither!

[bond]

there is a new mp4ui version out (alpha2) but not on sourceforge

grap it here (http://www.mediacruiser.de/mp4UI/)

try it with this one

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks bond,

This versions installer is around 50% larger than previous versions so lets hope there's even more stuff in it.

Already I have found that it's now possible to extract 2Ch and 6Ch audio streams from Recode2 encodes and save them as .aac instead of .bin

Very useful

[Matthaeus]

Confirmed! Cannot seek in XviD (1.0rc1) encoded video after muxed into an MP4 (I haven't used B-frames, qpel and GMC). I've tried the "old" XviD dep-avi-3 and it worked fine with all mp4 multiplexers (MP4UI 1.0alpha2, mp4creator60 1.0, 3ivx). The problem is that I've already encoded a movie using 1.0rc1. What should I do? Should I re-encode it with dev-api-3?

[symonjfox]

Originally posted by Matthaeus
Confirmed! Cannot seek in XviD (1.0rc1) encoded video after muxed into an MP4 (I haven't used B-frames, qpel and GMC). I've tried the "old" XviD dep-avi-3 and it worked fine with all mp4 multiplexers (MP4UI 1.0alpha2, mp4creator60 1.0, 3ivx). The problem is that I've already encoded a movie using 1.0rc1. What should I do? Should I re-encode it with dev-api-3? As said in other topics, try 3ivx media muxer!
Just download & install 3ivx filters, then use graphedit to mux audio and video.

[yakima]

i experience some weird problems with mp4 / xvid rc1 (2 b-vop, not packed, closed gov, no gmc, no qpel) as well which did NOT occur with an june 2003 or so dev.build by koepi (same settings).

for once, muxed w/ mp4creator 0.9.9, seeking takes hours, i.e. about 10 sec per minute, using 3ivx dec, envivio or quicktime (it is the qt codec!).
muxed w/ graphedit, seeking works, but playback in quicktime is choppy like hell.

i have always used qt to check mp4 files, as it seems to be the one most restrictive without that being due to alpha/beta-ness

so the question to the knowledgeable out there: what does the 3ivx muxer do that fixes seeking? i mean, i do NOT use packed bitstream ...
and the next question: why the choppy playback in qt when muxed with the 3ivx-muxer (which does not occur w mp4creator)?

btw.: files were encoded with different versions of vdmod, 1.5.4.1 among them, and when i open the avi in vdm and step back and forth between keyframes, the displayed frame for a particular key frame (number) changes ... is that due to not using "packed bitstream" - or is this something that could help explain observed behavior?

something else is weird: back in mpeg4ip 0.9.9, there was this mp4error writecountedstringtoolong if muxing xvid video with audio (same as having to check "not isma compliant" in mp4ui to make it work). there was a fix/workaround by bill may having to do with header length (vosh or vol, i don't remember). so: if i use the fixed version of mpeg4ip 0.9.9 (or the 1.0rc1), quicktime will say that the video is corrupt; if i use the orig. 0.9.9, the video will play in qt, but i cannot add audio.

question then: were there changes to the vosh/vol headers in xvid 1rc1 that could account for this behavior?
of course, this does not happen with 3ivx muxer, but that seems due to 3ivx changing headers (they are full of "3ivx", and even qt without the 3ivx codec says vid type: 3ivx)

any help would be very much appreciated - needless to say: the pc is fast enough, frame accurate seeking in 3ivx is disabled, qt high qual. doesn't change things, and: i have done some tests with differing bframe settings. and as previous posts indicate: this seems all about using bframes (i did not test without bframes)

i can do some more tests, only thing is: broken seeking is only visible in longer clips and that takes time - so i don't want to test without an idea of what could be wrong ...

however: thanx to all developers, i wouldn't worry bout all these issues if i did not like xvid & mp4 ...

[Koepi]

MP4Creator / MP4UI aren't bugfree pieces of software. Thy simply can't handle recent xvid builds properly. This is a known issue. You may bug the coders of these tools, if they plan to fix that :)

Regards
Koepi

[yakima]

well, of course, and that is why i never use mp4ui (too buggy) - but there were fixes in mp4creator to make xvid mp4 muxing work ...
aside from mp4creator problems i wonder:
- why could xvid playback in qt using 3ivxmuxer/graphedit be choppy & stuttering, while if using mp4creator it is not?
- why do these issues occur in xvid 1.0rc1 while they did not occur in earlier dev. builds?

regards,
yakima

[shitowax]

I dunno if that helps but:
- when you install 3ivx, it installs the 3ivx video codec for QT that overloads the Apple MPEG-4 video decoder. If you want to disable that, just remove the 3ivx file in c:\windows\system32\quicktime.
- The Apple MPEG-4 video codec doesn't decode B-frames it simply drops them ... A movie containing B-frames not played looks like shoppy.
- The Apple MPEG-4 postprocessing is especially slow on a PC.
- The 3ivx muxer does A LOT of thing to try fixing all the broken bitstream one can find around. It does even try to optimize the storage of VOPs using VFR. This option can be disable in the muxer property page (NVOP compression).

[yakima]

thanks for your reply.
i have to say: i can't reproduce the jerking playback in qt anymore (there is still another file that i might try later, but that could have been a bad encode).
i am still wondering what the 3ivx muxer does in contrast to mp4creator which fixes seeking - it even works with all options off. anyhow, this really seems an issue for the mpeg4ip forum.

so the bottomline is (as it was many posts earlier):
use graphedit to mux mp4

sorry folks! and to the devs: keep up the great work!

[SeeMoreDigital]

There's a lot of helpful information in this thread which I can't help feeling would be useful not only to XviD users but to all Mpeg4 coders!

Would it be too much to ask for the thread title to be changed slightly?

Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Would it be too much to ask for the thread title to be changed slightly?make a suggestion, i didnt follow the discussion :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

I would have thought something like 'Problems with MP4Creator/MP4UI' would do!

It would be nice to get a response from K-Dash. But since starting the thread, he/she has gone a bit quite. :confused:

[bond]

there is a new mp4ui version out (beta2)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
there is a new mp4ui version out (beta2)

Just tried the new version and.....

It still can't extract 'export' .aac streams from an .mp4 container in a format that MediaPlayer Classic likes.

And I'm still confused as to why v0.95a could do this. And none of the new versions can.

What ever happened to the saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it"!

Cheers

[yakima]

ok, thanx to bill may and some testing, i finally have an idea of what the problem is if muxing xvid1.0rc1 using mp4creator 1.0:

1. according to bill may, xvid is inserting the user data field (indicated by 00 00 01 B2) AFTER the VOL instead of before or not at all (so the b2 comes after the b5 which to the don't know nothing eye (me) seems wrong ..). if you manually change that, the file is muxed without problems and qt or others play it fine.

2. if you use the xvid profile setting AS@L5 and mux in mp4creator, the resulting mp4 will have bad troubles seeking.
--- EDIT --- (of course i was wrong)
somehow the decoders don't like that profile setting (it seems to appear before each keyframe, does it?), and profile override in mp4creator doesn't resolve that (it does change things, but the file looks really different)

btw: the 3ivx muxer by default overrides (ignores?) the xvid profile setting, even if AS@L5 was chosen, the resulting mp4 will display Simple@L3 -- and the resulting file has no seek problems

so, the bottomline is: using mp4creator works fine IF:
(a) the user data field is not after the VOL
(b) profile level was not set during encoding

i will have a look at the xvid source and see if i can find a working fix for the user data thing ... but maybe someone with more knowledge could give a hand (or her/his opinion regarding the right order of headers ..?)

EDIT: ok, think i found the relevant spot where the userdata field is entered. it is bitstream.c, starting (in rc2 at least) at line 1268. as i am not sure where and how to move it, i just commented the divx_id and xvid_id out. the resulting xvid encodes don't have the user data field and can be muxed with mp4creator without a problem.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Why is MP4UI is so fussy!

I'm no software programmer but I think it's a little weird that I can mux Mpeg4 video and 6Ch AAC streams into an AVI or MKV container (using a tool like AVI-Mux) but I cant do the same with MP4UI

OK I understand that the video stream must be compliant and that video b-frames, GMC and Qpel may confuse the application. But why does it throw a wobbly with Nero Recode2 MP4 contained streams!

Also, why is it that when I run an audio / video encode thru' MP4UI and extract the video stream - leaving an audio only MP4 - I'm sometimes unable to put the video stream back into the container?

I hope these issues can be sorted out. As it promises to be a great tool.

Cheers

[bond]

guys, if you have bug reports or feature requests you will have to go to sourceforge and make your reports there: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mp4ui! afaik the author isnt a member of doom9 so i am not sure if he will read your reports here

well even better than that would be to make him join doom9 of course :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yep,

You're right. But I found that my email's to trybe@gmx.net and mbrenner@users.sourceforge.net went unanswered!

Maybe if we all send him emails with offers to join Doom9 he might take us up on it...

...I mean. Who in their right mind does'nt want to join Doom9.

Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Following on from the various posts I've made. I've finally been able to use MP4UI to create the following: -

An 720x576 16:9 anamorphic switching XviD video stream. With 1No 6Ch, and 2No 2Ch AAC LC streams.

And yes, when the encode is run thru' Nero's ShowTime player it opens up at the correct aspect ratio!

PS: 3viX 16:9 anamorphic streams work too.

Great, I'm a very happy chappie!


EDIT: I've just run the encodes thru' my Xcard (set to 16:9 TV out) to my 16:9 TV and they also open up at the correct aspect ratio

I am an incredibly happy chappie now!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Is there any particlar reason why, when you 'export' a video stream (that you know is XviD) out of an MP4 container using MP4UI. The exported video stream is always identified as being DivX4.x.x?

Cheers