Scenarist and (incorrect /impossible ?) audio connection of ac3

[rca29]

I'm trying to backup a DVD concert that is a multi-angle dvd.
I think i followed all the rules, but i keep getting the error about an audio gap on Scenarist.

I tried everything that i could think of, but i'm starting to believe that it can't be done with DoItFast4You or DVD decrypter.
Why ?
If i try to demux by VOB ID in the stream processing mode of DVD decrypter, i get the following delay values:

VOB ID1 = 0 ms delay
VOB ID2 = -104 ms delay

As discussed on another thread, DoItFast4You cuts or adds frames to the audio track in order to 'fix' the delay values, but as this only cuts or adds audio frames, we can only have an 0 ms delay if it is a multiple of 32ms on Dolby Digital (which is NOT the case), meaning that we will have incorrect audio files leading to audio gaps and this problem.

So, how is it possible to eliminate this audio gap error in scenarist or any ripping / demuxing program ?

Is there any other way to backup the disc keeping multiangles (Besides DVDShrink ? ;) )


Here's the 'roadmap':

VTS overview:

Menu attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)
Audio 1: Not Specified (Dolby AC-3) 2ch 48Kbps DRC
SubPicture 1: Not Specified (2-bit rle )

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)
Audio 1: Not Specified (Dolby AC-3) 2ch 48Kbps DRC (ID: 0x80)
Audio 2: Not Specified (Dolby AC-3) 6ch 48Kbps DRC (ID: 0x81)
Audio 3: Not Specified (DTS ) 5ch 48Kbps DRC (ID: 0x8a)
SubPicture 1: Not Specified (2-bit rle ) (ID: 0x21,0x22)

PGC_1 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 1] [02:47:45.02 / 25 fps] (Programs: 14) (Cells: 71) (uses VOB-IDs: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/ 1] : time: 00:02:52.01 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:02:52.01] [Frames: 4301]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id: 1/ 2] : time: 00:08:52.12 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:11:44.13] [Frames: 17613]
[Cell 03] [V/C Id: 2/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:56.04 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:12:40.17] [Frames: 19017]
[Cell 04] [V/C Id: 3/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:56.04 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:12:40.17] [Frames: 19017]
[Cell 05] [V/C Id: 4/ 1] : time: 00:00:21.21 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:13:02.13] [Frames: 19563]
[Cell 06] [V/C Id: 5/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:44.05 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:13:46.18] [Frames: 20668]
[Cell 07] [V/C Id: 6/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:44.05 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:13:46.18] [Frames: 20668]
[Cell 08] [V/C Id: 7/ 1] : time: 00:09:38.06 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:23:24.24] [Frames: 35124]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 09] [V/C Id: 7/ 2] : time: 00:05:47.22 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:29:12.21] [Frames: 43821]
[Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 10] [V/C Id: 7/ 3] : time: 00:02:31.08 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:31:44.04] [Frames: 47604]
[Cell 11] [V/C Id: 8/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:17.17 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:32:01.21] [Frames: 48046]
[Cell 12] [V/C Id: 9/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:17.17 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:32:01.21] [Frames: 48046]
[Cell 13] [V/C Id: 10/ 1] : time: 00:00:09.09 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:32:11.05] [Frames: 48280]
[Cell 14] [V/C Id: 11/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:09.09 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:32:20.14] [Frames: 48514]
[Cell 15] [V/C Id: 12/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:09.09 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:32:20.14] [Frames: 48514]
[Cell 16] [V/C Id: 13/ 1] : time: 00:02:47.11 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:35:08.00] [Frames: 52700]
[Ch 05] [Pg 05] [Cell 17] [V/C Id: 13/ 2] : time: 00:03:26.11 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:38:34.11] [Frames: 57861]
[Cell 18] [V/C Id: 14/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:32.06 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:39:06.17] [Frames: 58667]
[Cell 19] [V/C Id: 15/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:32.06 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:39:06.17] [Frames: 58667]
[Cell 20] [V/C Id: 16/ 1] : time: 00:08:25.11 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:47:32.03] [Frames: 71303]
[Ch 06] [Pg 06] [Cell 21] [V/C Id: 16/ 2] : time: 00:03:39.24 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:51:12.02] [Frames: 76802]
[Cell 22] [V/C Id: 17/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:15.15 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:51:27.17] [Frames: 77192]
[Cell 23] [V/C Id: 18/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:15.15 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:51:27.17] [Frames: 77192]
[Cell 24] [V/C Id: 19/ 1] : time: 00:00:53.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:52:21.06] [Frames: 78531]
[Cell 25] [V/C Id: 20/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:19.19 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:52:41.00] [Frames: 79025]
[Cell 26] [V/C Id: 21/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:19.19 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:52:41.00] [Frames: 79025]
[Cell 27] [V/C Id: 22/ 1] : time: 00:00:30.04 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:53:11.04] [Frames: 79779]
[Cell 28] [V/C Id: 23/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:15.15 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:53:26.19] [Frames: 80169]
[Cell 29] [V/C Id: 24/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:15.15 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:53:26.19] [Frames: 80169]
[Cell 30] [V/C Id: 25/ 1] : time: 00:02:26.16 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:55:53.10] [Frames: 83835]
[Cell 31] [V/C Id: 26/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:01:57.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:57:50.23] [Frames: 86773]
[Cell 32] [V/C Id: 27/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:01:57.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:57:50.23] [Frames: 86773]
[Cell 33] [V/C Id: 28/ 1] : time: 00:00:05.05 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:57:56.03] [Frames: 86903]
[Cell 34] [V/C Id: 29/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:14.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:58:10.17] [Frames: 87267]
[Cell 35] [V/C Id: 30/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:14.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:58:10.17] [Frames: 87267]
[Cell 36] [V/C Id: 31/ 1] : time: 00:13:42.03 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:11:52.20] [Frames: 107820]
[Ch 07] [Pg 07] [Cell 37] [V/C Id: 31/ 2] : time: 00:07:26.10 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:19:19.05] [Frames: 118980]
[Ch 08] [Pg 08] [Cell 38] [V/C Id: 31/ 3] : time: 00:06:50.20 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:26:10.00] [Frames: 129250]
[Cell 39] [V/C Id: 32/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:06:37.20 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:32:47.20] [Frames: 139195]
[Ch 09] [Pg 09] [Cell 40] [V/C Id: 32/ 2] : time: 00:00:40.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:33:28.09] [Frames: 140209]
[Cell 41] [V/C Id: 33/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:14.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:33:42.23] [Frames: 140573]
[Cell 42] [V/C Id: 34/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:14.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:33:42.23] [Frames: 140573]
[Cell 43] [V/C Id: 35/ 1] : time: 00:02:54.05 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:36:37.03] [Frames: 144928]
[Cell 44] [V/C Id: 36/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:13.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:36:50.16] [Frames: 145266]
[Cell 45] [V/C Id: 37/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:13.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:36:50.16] [Frames: 145266]
[Cell 46] [V/C Id: 38/ 1] : time: 00:00:10.10 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:37:01.01] [Frames: 145526]
[Cell 47] [V/C Id: 39/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:13.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:37:14.14] [Frames: 145864]
[Cell 48] [V/C Id: 40/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:13.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:37:14.14] [Frames: 145864]
[Cell 49] [V/C Id: 41/ 1] : time: 00:00:20.20 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:37:35.09] [Frames: 146384]
[Cell 50] [V/C Id: 42/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:17.04 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:37:52.13] [Frames: 146813]
[Cell 51] [V/C Id: 43/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:17.04 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:37:52.13] [Frames: 146813]
[Cell 52] [V/C Id: 44/ 1] : time: 00:01:18.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:39:11.01] [Frames: 148776]
[Cell 53] [V/C Id: 45/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:43.17 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:39:54.18] [Frames: 149868]
[Cell 54] [V/C Id: 46/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:43.17 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:39:54.18] [Frames: 149868]
[Cell 55] [V/C Id: 47/ 1] : time: 00:01:14.09 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:41:09.02] [Frames: 151727]
[Ch 10] [Pg 10] [Cell 56] [V/C Id: 47/ 2] : time: 00:00:22.09 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:41:31.11] [Frames: 152286]
[Cell 57] [V/C Id: 48/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:01:47.03 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:43:18.14] [Frames: 154964]
[Cell 58] [V/C Id: 49/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:01:47.03 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:43:18.14] [Frames: 154964]
[Cell 59] [V/C Id: 50/ 1] : time: 00:01:19.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:44:38.03] [Frames: 156953]
[Cell 60] [V/C Id: 51/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:40.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:45:18.17] [Frames: 157967]
[Cell 61] [V/C Id: 52/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:40.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:45:18.17] [Frames: 157967]
[Cell 62] [V/C Id: 53/ 1] : time: 00:05:05.19 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:50:24.11] [Frames: 165611]
[Cell 63] [V/C Id: 54/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:44.05 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:51:08.16] [Frames: 166716]
[Cell 64] [V/C Id: 55/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:44.05 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:51:08.16] [Frames: 166716]
[Cell 65] [V/C Id: 56/ 1] : time: 00:03:04.15 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:54:13.06] [Frames: 171331]
[Ch 11] [Pg 11] [Cell 66] [V/C Id: 56/ 2] : time: 00:30:07.00 / 25 fps [Pos: 02:24:20.06] [Frames: 216506]
[Ch 12] [Pg 12] [Cell 67] [V/C Id: 56/ 3] : time: 00:09:19.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 02:33:39.19] [Frames: 230494]
[Ch 13] [Pg 13] [Cell 68] [V/C Id: 56/ 4] : time: 00:06:06.02 / 25 fps [Pos: 02:39:45.21] [Frames: 239646]
[Ch 14] [Pg 14] [Cell 69] [V/C Id: 56/ 5] : time: 00:06:16.12 / 25 fps [Pos: 02:46:02.08] [Frames: 249058]
[Cell 70] [V/C Id: 57/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:01:42.19 / 25 fps [Pos: 02:47:45.02] [Frames: 251627]
[Cell 71] [V/C Id: 58/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:01:42.19 / 25 fps [Pos: 02:47:45.02] [Frames: 251627]

[RB]

Do not "correct" the audio delays when you split by VobID. The delays are perfectly normal in this case. This should fix the Scenarist issue.

Also, this kind of movie is probably easier to reauthor in Maestro because you don't have to create a track for each VobID.

[rca29]

Thanks for your answer.

I tried unchecking the "correct audio delays", but the result is about the same... :(

A question about Maestro authoring:

If you take a look, the multi-angle sections of a movie starts in cell points (in between Chapters).
How can i reautor this (cell) layout in Maestro ?

[RB]

OK, ignore my post above. You can do this in Scenarist without demuxing the audio by VobId. I'm describing how to do this manually because I'm not (yet) using DoItFast4U. Maybe it can save you a few of the steps, below. Note, this is a bit advanced stuff in a long post and I'm assuming you have a little more than basic knowledge about IFOUpdate, CCE and the structure of a DVD/IFO in general.

I assume that this VTS (title) has only a single PGC and that the angles are seamless, that is, share the same audio and subtitles. If it has multiple PGCs, the chapter extraction needs to be done differently. If the angles are not seamless we indeed need to demux the audio by VobId (I doubt this is the case with this concert DVD).

First, get the latest IFOUpdate 0.78 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58897&perpage=20&pagenumber=2#post421970). Fire it up, set Mode to "Adjusted Cell Mode" and load the IFO for your VTS. Important: from the Options menu, check "Ignore Angle Cells" (currently there's a bug in IFOUpdate, see this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58897&perpage=20&pagenumber=2#post422163)). Click File - Save Chapter Files, tick "Adjusted Mode Chapter Files" and "Chaps for VOBID Authoring (.CHP)", save the chapter files.

Now, demux your desired audio track(s) for this PGC, you do not need to split the audio by VobID, just the video. In DVDDecrypter, select IFO Mode and make sure File Splitting is set to 1 GB. Select the PGC - Angle 1, switch to the Stream Processing tab, uncheck everything but the desired audio track(s) and make sure they are set to "Demux". Let DVDDecrypter demux the audio. Now do the same for the video, but change File Splitting to "By VobID" in the IFO Mode settings first. In Stream processing, you may uncheck everything but the video stream because you already demuxed the audio.

Now comes the tedious part of running DVD2AVI over all the 58 VobID VOBs DVDDecrypter ripped to your hard drive to create the necessary .D2V files. You can set Audio Output Method to "Disable" in DVD2AVI because you already demuxed the audio. Also make sure you use Donald Graft's fixed DVD2AVI and Mpeg2Dec3.dll (http://neuron2.net/fixd2v/decodefix.html) because your frame counts have to be exact for this multiangle project.

Create the AVISynth .AVS scripts for all the D2V's. Make sure you have AVIsynth 2.53 (http://cultact-server.novi.dk/kpo/avisynth/avs_cvs.html) installed and dropped Donald Graft's Mpeg2Dec3.dll mentioned above into the AVISynth plugin directory (usually C:\Program Files\AVISynth 2.5\plugins). Example .AVS script (VTS_01_VOBID_001_1.AVS):
Mpeg2Source("E:\Movie\VTS_01\VTS_01_VOBID_001_1.d2v")
ConvertToYUY2(Interlaced=False)
AddAudio()
Change the Interlaced parameter to "True" if your video is interlaced. For the AddAudio() script item, check the CCE FAQ, Q14.1 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53770) (you have to create an AddAudio.avsi script in the AVISynth plugin directory).

Now load all the AVS scripts into CCE and set your bitrates and other parameters. You need to take special care of the VobIDs that make up the angles (VobIDs 2,3,5,6,8,9,11,12 etc.). For these you have to check "Close all GOPs" and "Restrict auto I frame insertion" (CCE 2.50) or simply check "DVD video multiangle" (CCE 2.66+). Also set the max. bitrate here to 8000 minus audio bitrate(s) minus some "safety". So if you have one 384 kbps AC3 track, set max. bitrate to 7500. From the Scenarist help file:The combined bit rate of video, audio, and subpicture data must not exceed 8.0 Mbps per angle stream. This bit-rate ceiling can decrease by as much as 1.2 Mbps as the number of video angles increases.Finally, make sure that "Add sequence end code" is checked for all Angle 2 VobIds and only for the last VobId in Angle 1 (VobId 57 in your case).

Save the ECL file (you'll need EclCCE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46664) if you're using a trial version of CCE 2.66+) and open it in Notepad. For the VobIds that have more than one cell, you have to instruct CCE to insert I-Frames at the cell locations so the scene locations can be set correctly in the Scenarist step later on. Looking at the original IFO, we can see that this is the case for VobIds 1, 7, 13, 16 etc. Locate the [file] sections for these VobIds in the .ECL file and paste the chapter points from the corresponding CCE-VOBID_0x.TXT file that IFOUpdate created when saving chapter files at the end of that section. For example, for VobId 1:
[file]
name=E:\Movie\VTS_01\VTS_01_VOBID_001_1.avs
type=0
frame_first=0
frame_last=17613
encode_first=0
encode_last=17613
chapter=0:
chapter=4301:Save the updated ECL file, load it back into CCE and encode.

When CCE has finished encoding all the assets, now it's time for the Scenarist step. My SceneImport (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68706) utility for Scenarist will be very helpful here, so you may want to get it first. In Scenarist, switch to Data Editor and from the menu, select "New - Multi-File Data...". Use the Add... button to add the encoded MPVs for just the VobIds that are Angle 1 or "by itself" (no angle) in the order they appear in the IFO. So, your file list needs to look like this in the end:
E:\Movie\VTS_01\VTS_01_VOBID_001_1.MPV
E:\Movie\VTS_01\VTS_01_VOBID_002_1.MPV
E:\Movie\VTS_01\VTS_01_VOBID_004_1.MPV
E:\Movie\VTS_01\VTS_01_VOBID_005_1.MPV
E:\Movie\VTS_01\VTS_01_VOBID_007_1.MPV
...
E:\Movie\VTS_01\VTS_01_VOBID_056_1.MPV
E:\Movie\VTS_01\VTS_01_VOBID_057_1.MPVThen import the remaining MPVs for Angle 2 VobIds as individual data (just drag and drop them into the Scenarist Data Editor). Also import your demuxed AC3 audio.

Now switch to Track Editor and create a track from the Multi-File Data "joined MPV" Scenarist has created for you. Add audio and subpicture stream(s) as necessary and drag in your AC3 audio stream(s). Now import the chapters (scenes) we saved from IFOUpdate above. If using SceneImport as recommended, select "Tools - Import Chapter..." from the Menu while in Track Editor and open the ADJUSTED_MAESTRO.CHP chapter file (I know it sounds misleading but that's what we need). When done, add the second video angle to the track (Menu - New - Angle or use the toolbar).

Now for another tricky and tedious task, dragging and dropping the Angle 2 data MPVs that you imported as individual data to the second angle in the appropriate places. For example, you drag the video asset for VobId 3 (Cell 04/Angle 2 in the original IFO) over the second angle stream so that the mouse pointer is inside the 3rd scene and drop it there. It will automatically "snap" there. Just follow the IFO layout and drag and drop the remaining Angle 2 video assets. In the end, it should look like this in Scenarist:
Video +----------+----------+-------------+----------+-------------+ +----------+-------------+
| "Joined" | | | | | | | |
+----------+----------+-------------+----------+-------------+ ....... +----------+-------------+
Angle 1 | | VOBID_003_1 | | VOBID_006_1 | | | VOBID_058_1 |
| +-------------+ +-------------+ | +-------------+

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
| | | | | | |
Scene Scene Scene Scene Scene Scene
I hope I could make it clear, should be pretty intuitive if you just follow the IFO.

Now in Scenario Editor, if you have too much time :), you can of course recreate the layout exactly as in the original IFO by dragging over every single scene as either a program or cell of a program as specified in the IFO and then use IFOUpdate in Standard Mode. But IFOUpdate's Adjusted Cell Mode will save us this additional tedious task. So just drag and drop the entire track onto the title folder and let Scenarist create the DVD files.

Now do the usual IFOUpdate step, but again make sure Mode is set to "Adjusted Cell Mode". Important: from the Options menu again, uncheck "Ignore Angle Cells" (we checked it before, see above) before updating the IFO.

Congratulations, you have successfully reauthored this really advanced DVD structure! :)

BTW, this is pretty much the way it works in Maestro, but until recently I didn't know such "mixed angle mode" was possible in Scenarist, too.

[rca29]

First of all, thanks a lot for all your work explaining it.
I do have more than basic knowledge about the tools and the DVD structure, otherwise i would be real scared with your explanation :)
To be honest with you, i only used DoItFast4You 2 times, as i like to understand all the steps envolved in every project (It's part of the fun, isn't it ? ;) ), and the best way to acomplish that is by doing every steps of the process.

I will try your method, it really makes sense.

Thanks a lot for your help

[RB]

Just a small update to this small guide.

If you have a movie that has a lot of (relatively short) multiangle parts and only a few (relatively short) non-multiangle parts inbetween, it may be not optimal, qualitywise, to encode all these short VobIds separately as outlined above. Reason is that VBR encoding cannot make use of it's full power here because it only has access to short clips as opposed to the entire movie so bitrate distribution cannot be optimal.

I just had this case with "Die Another Day" which is also (non-seamless) multiangle. I too ended up with 58 VobIds to reencode and my average bitrate was 3495. There were several relatively short multiangle sequences (i.e the hovercraft) that looked really bad because well, CCE had only 3495 avg. for a short, high-motion clip.

So what I did was simply reencoding the whole PGC (ripped Angle 1 with DVDDecrypter) in one big piece and reencoded only the Angle 2 VobIds separately and quality was much better. Now instead of doing the "Multi-File-Data" import thing you simply import the big MPV for PGC Angle 1, everything else stays the same.

Of course, you'll now have to use "Close All GOPs" and "Restrict Auto I-Farme Insertion" for the whole Angle 1 part but you have to make sure CCE still sets I-Frames where the original cells start. Use the "CCE Cell Information" file DVDDecrypter can generate in IFO mode for this, paste it's contents at the end of the ECL file as described above. Note, this requires at least CCE-SP 2.67.00.13 because only from this version on it is "enabled to set chapter points for DVD multiangle video" (previous versions will simply ignore the chapter list).

Then use this same file with SceneImport 1.1 to import the corresponding scenes into the track. For optimal quality, you'll also want to make sure you use the same GOP lenght as in the original (12 in this case). Of course, Closing all GOPs and disabling scene change detection means a loss in quality too, but I seriously didn't notice any artifacts and it definitely looked much better.

[rca29]

I didn´t have time to try this method, but in the meantime i found out that i can only go one way on this = Split by 2 dvd-r ! :(

The reason for this is that i have about 168 minutes of movie + a few minutes of multi-angles + the original menus.
Acording to my calculations i have to encode it at an average bitrate of 2450 kbit/s !! As you know, this is a VERY LOW bitrate, even more considering that we are talking about a music concert (movie concert = a movie 99% filled with high action parts...) .
I hate to split backup's, and i've only done it 1 time (on more than 100 dvd backup's), but i guess that there isn't any encoder on world that could do an acceptable quality at this bitrate, with closed gop, Restrict Auto I-Farme Insertion and all...

But i will save this guide, as i'm sure i'm gonna need it one day ;)

Thank you a Lot

[RB]

I see, and it's probably interlaced so even more difficult.

Anyway, another note in case anyone wants to follow this "mixed angle" method.

When doing this for "Die Another Day", I stumbled across what I think is a bug in Scenarist 2.7.

Like I said, I encoded the whole main video in one big piece with the "DVD Video Multiangle" option and set the appropriate chapter points in the CCE 2.67.00.23 ECL according to the original cells, then encoded the Angle 2 VobIds separately, again with "DVD Video Multiangle" checked and using the same GOP length so everything lines up. Imported the scenes from the DVDDecrypter CCE Cell Info file and dragged over the Angle MPVs to snap into the appropriate scenes. Recreated the layout exactly, everything fine so far.

However, during muxing it kept failing at one particular multi-angle part, complaining that the length of the angle video was one frame less than the main video. I took a look at the GOP structure in BitrateViewer and of course, the main and the angle video had exactly the same length and GOP structure where Scenarist reported they didn't match.

I finally tracked it down to the fact that the last GOP of the main video in the (non-multiangle) scene preceding this multiangle scene had only one frame (single I-Frame, which is perfectly valid). I.e.:

Main IPBPBBPBBPBB IPBPBBPBBPBB I IPBPBBPBBPBB IPBPBBPBBPBB ...
|
Angle 1 IPBPBBPBBPBB IPBPBBPBBPBB ...
|
|
| Scene

Obviously Scenarist got confused about this and counted this I-Frame to the following (multiangle) scene, hence the unsolvable frame count mismatch. I solved it simply by moving the scene start time one GOP forward (so the previous GOP would be no longer only a single frame) and cutting one GOP from the beginning of the angle video. Now the muxing suceeded.

[Trahald]

I have a question.. my naivety is probably due to the fact that my only exposure to a real dvd authoring package has been scenarist. When i look at pro-dvd ifo's , many have frequent vobid # changes (with some cell # changes in between) . Now in scenarist, the only way to do this (at least afaik) is to have multiple tracks. my question is, are they laying one single track and setting flags on whatever authoring application they are using to change the vobid? (with scenarist you would just end up with one vobid with tons of cellids by using a single track)

the vobid # changes dont correspond to the chapters and/or cell changes at all so that wouldnt be it. And im not necessarily referring to angle or multy story projects. average run of the mill dvds use from ~5 - 45 vobids(some of the non-run-of-the-mills go up to the 90's)

thanks

[RB]

I think it simply depends on the authoring package used, for reauthoring, it really doesn't matter whether you recreate the exact order of VobIds. You only need to make sure of course that depending on the IFOUpdate mode used, all the cells are in the right place in the expected order.

Most professional DVDs I have seen have a VobId change at the layer break, but as you noted, there are others that use even more VobIds. I have even seen two or three that used only a single VobId throughout the whole PGC, across the dual-layer break. Anyway, it's just something interesting to see, not something that matters.

[Trahald]

Yeah... IfoUpdate is great that way.. i guess more what I was having a problem with is the WHY of it.. there must be some practical reason for the vobid numbers to increment.. or maybe not.

It is either a side-effect of something they are doing. Or they are intentionally going back and incrementing them. Either way, just wondering the why of it. Might be one of lifes mysteries

[Alanoll]

Obviously Scenarist got confused about this and counted this I-Frame to the following (multiangle) scene, hence the unsolvable frame count mismatch. I solved it simply by moving the scene start time one GOP forward (so the previous GOP would be no longer only a single frame) and cutting one GOP from the beginning of the angle video. Now the muxing suceeded.

how did you do this?

I've never actually used Adjusted Mode, but after read this I'm inclined to try, especially this "Scenarist trick" you have. Never even heard that it could be done that way. I only knew of the creating multiple tracks and then have an Angle added to them.

How is it possible to add an angle to part of the video that's one large piece? (I don't have Scenarist on this computer, so I can't really check) Perhaps there is a guide? Or is it included in the FInding Nemo one?

[RB]

Originally posted by Alanoll
how did you do this?

Well, I actually deleted the scene and created a new scene at the old timecode plus 15 frames (the GOP size). I then used Trim() in the AVS script for the Angle video to cut 15 frames at the start and reencoded it.

Originally posted by Alanoll

How is it possible to add an angle to part of the video that's one large piece? (I don't have Scenarist on this computer, so I can't really check) Perhaps there is a guide? Or is it included in the FInding Nemo one?
No, no guide for that AFAIK. But it's really simple, just create the "large piece" track (your main video), import the scenes. Add the angle and drag and drop the video assets for angle 2 into the scenes (cells) that have additional angles, drag over the angle stream and drop there, that is. Maybe a picture makes it clearer:
http://home.t-online.de/home/340044300675/nemo.gif
I did Finding Nemo this way too, as you can see. If you want to try this way of (manual!) authoring, you can probably make use of
http://home.t-online.de/home/340044300675/rip.zip It's what I use to demux my DVDs for manual reauthoring, saves me a lot of work. Feel free to try it.

[GZZ]

I might have missed something in this guide, but can anyone tell me why I have to add Chapter point to CCE, when I can just insert chapters in scenarist and then compile. Does it have any effect to have the same chapter point in both CCE (when I encode the file) and in Scenarist when I compile my project??


What are the effect since RB do it, normally I just encode 1 long PGC and then import it and add chapters...?????

[RB]

You add "chapter points" in CCE so you can recreate the original cell/chapter durations exactly. Authoring packages can set chapter points only at I-Frames and setting a "chapter point" in CCE just forces CCE to insert an I-Frame at that very location so you can be sure when you later add chapters in Scenarist, they will be spot on.

[GZZ]

ok didn't know that, but very useful information, though I never had any problems with chapters in just scenarist I will try out your ide.

[GZZ]

I tried your metode RB and I can't get it working as I hope fore. I´m doing Starwars EP1 - PAL. It got 5 angels for the opening text...

What I did was Ripped Angel 1 in dvddecrypter (ifomode) as 1 big file and then ripped just the Angel 2,3,4,5 out as a file for each angel...


Encoded Angel 1,2,3,4,5 in CCE, with a Chapter at each Cell point and had the DVD Multiangle check in CCE (using CCE 2.67.0.23) for all 5 angels...


I then imported the files:

Angel 1 Contains VOBID 1,2,7,8 (hole movie without angel 2,3,4,5)
Angel 2 contains VobID 3 and so on

in Scenarist editor I pulled the first Cell Chapter from Angel 1 to PGC1, then I wanted to pul the second file with 4 angels in it (2,3,4,5) to PGC1, so I chapter 2, with 4 cells (Angels), but then it gives me this error:


Error Scene<p01_c001_Angel_2-t-scn> and <p01-t-scn> <VTS_1(VTS Title Domain)> would be connected Seamlessly but the following conditions are illegal:
Error Logically Adjacent is No.(see DVD Book VI3-85)




Structure of the IFO file, if it can help you:


PGC_1 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 1] [02:10:43.21 / 25 fps] (Programs: 51) (Cells: 79) (uses VOB-IDs: 1,2,3,4,5,6,2,3,4,5,6,7,8)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/ 1] : time: 00:00:19.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:00:19.13] [Frames: 488] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id: 2/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:01:28.02 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:47.15] [Frames: 2690] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/yes/ no]
[Cell 03] [V/C Id: 3/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:01:28.02 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:47.15] [Frames: 2690] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/yes/ no]
[Cell 04] [V/C Id: 4/ 1] (Angle 3): time: 00:01:28.02 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:47.15] [Frames: 2690] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/yes/ no]
[Cell 05] [V/C Id: 5/ 1] (Angle 4): time: 00:01:28.02 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:47.15] [Frames: 2690] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/yes/ no]
[Cell 06] [V/C Id: 6/ 1] (Angle 5): time: 00:01:28.02 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:47.15] [Frames: 2690] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/yes/ no]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 07] [V/C Id: 2/ 2] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:06.23 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:54.13] [Frames: 2863] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/ no/ no]
[Cell 08] [V/C Id: 3/ 2] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:06.23 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:54.13] [Frames: 2863] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/ no/ no]
[Cell 09] [V/C Id: 4/ 2] (Angle 3): time: 00:00:06.23 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:54.13] [Frames: 2863] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/ no/ no]
[Cell 10] [V/C Id: 5/ 2] (Angle 4): time: 00:00:06.23 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:54.13] [Frames: 2863] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/ no/ no]
[Cell 11] [V/C Id: 6/ 2] (Angle 5): time: 00:00:06.23 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:01:54.13] [Frames: 2863] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/yes/ no/ no]
[Cell 12] [V/C Id: 7/ 1] : time: 00:05:40.14 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:07:35.02] [Frames: 11377] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/yes/ no]
[Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 13] [V/C Id: 7/ 2] : time: 00:01:55.17 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:09:30.19] [Frames: 14269] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]
[Ch 05] [Pg 05] [Cell 14] [V/C Id: 7/ 3] : time: 00:00:07.10 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:09:38.04] [Frames: 14454] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]
[Cell 15] [V/C Id: 7/ 4] : time: 00:01:12.00 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:10:50.04] [Frames: 16254] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]
[Ch 06] [Pg 06] [Cell 16] [V/C Id: 7/ 5] : time: 00:02:00.07 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:12:50.11] [Frames: 19261] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]
[Ch 07] [Pg 07] [Cell 17] [V/C Id: 7/ 6] : time: 00:01:22.03 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:14:12.14] [Frames: 21314] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]
[Ch 08] [Pg 08] [Cell 18] [V/C Id: 7/ 7] : time: 00:02:18.03 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:16:30.17] [Frames: 24767] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]
[Ch 09] [Pg 09] [Cell 19] [V/C Id: 7/ 8] : time: 00:03:18.16 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:19:49.08] [Frames: 29733] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]
[Ch 10] [Pg 10] [Cell 20] [V/C Id: 7/ 9] : time: 00:00:39.06 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:20:28.14] [Frames: 30714] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]



Do you have solution for me or do I have to split it by vobID instead ???


GZZ

[GZZ]

When I do like RB did with Finding Nemo, just doing Starwars EP1 I get this error message in Scenarist when I try to compile my project...



Info Interleaving VOB, Block No 2
Error ERROR in Interleaving.
Error ERROR in making ILVU.
The PTSs are different at ILVU#92 in CELL#1 between angles.
Error Dvd_ilv : Reconfig Vobset Tree Error
Error Terminated Interleaving (test10-p01-t_t.vob).
Error Start PTS of ILVUs in each angle are deferent. The encoding paremeters should be same between angles.
Error Interleave is failed.
Error Multiplexing failed, Track "p01-t"

Error MuxFromDB:MuxVTS failed
Error Multiplex failed
Error DVD Video files could not be created


My project have 1 large piece of video (angel 1) and then I have 4 angels attached to it, where I have added angel 2,3,4 and 5...it all works fine, but when I try to compile my project it fail...

I don't know what the problem are, but does anyone know a solution for this problem...?????

GZZ