ISO Plays fine but after burn main movie is jumpy

[jed]

After encoding Pulp Fiction using the Big 3 it plays fine from the ISO but after i burn it the main movie is Jerky. Any Ideas?

[gooki]

bad media, bitrate to high, or it's a de-interlacing issue.

[jel]

have to agree with gooki on this one but it might help if you post some more details, ie:

*did you check the file in dvd2avi for any interlacing artifacts?
*what settings did you use to encode the main movie?
*what media did you use to burn with?
*is this an isolated case or has it occured with other backups made using the big3?

[jed]

Media is fine been using it for months no probs.
Big3 is fine down about 10 no probs so far.
I think it is too do with file in dvd2avi for any interlacing artifacts, how do i check that, which file do i open?

[jed]

I demuxed using DOITFAST4U then I played the M2V file of the main movie using Media player and it looks fine too me!

[jel]

open the same file in dvd2avi and advance through until you find a scene with action in it and see if there is any signs of interlacing.
failing that....no idea....incorrect field order?....does happen continually throughout the film or only in certain places?....is the main movie "seamlessly branched" with any special features?...

[jed]

THis might seem like a dump question but how do i play that file in dvd2avi i opened dvd2avi from the doiffast4u dir and opened the m2v file but i can't get it too play

[jel]

its not 'play' per se, more advancement through frames. use the slider to move to a point in the movie, then click on the > keys to move forward and backward.

[jed]

don't know what i'm doing wrong but it's just black?

[jed]

forget that last post. i figured it out.
there are lots of blacks lines through the picture so i asume that is interlacing.
All dvd's i do are PAL so i've asumed this for all dvd i do and in DOCCE4U i've change the templated so that progresive is unticked and alternat is ticked. Shouldn't that get around the interlacing problem or should i be putting this in my avisynth file

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DoItFast4U\new.avs\decomb.dll")
FieldDeinterlace(blend=false)

and would interlacing explain why the main movie is jumpy because it looks nothing like the interlacing problem i can see in dvd2avi?

[jel]

...it all depends on the dvd in question.
the majority of dvds i have found that the main movie is progressive, with the majority of the extras being interlaced.
i usually check everything in dvd2avi prior to encoding.
the settings i use in DoCCE4U (...and not everyone will agree)
is if its progressive, only select progressive.
and if it is interlaced, only select alternate scan.
all other options are deselected.
i tried de-interlacing but i wasnt happy with the results.

[jed]

Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 720*576
Aspect ratio: 16:9 Generic
Framerate: 25.00
Nom. bitrate: 9780000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 10
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Field
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Interlaced

That is what bitrate says for the main movie and it's the same for the extra's what would you tick in DOCCE4U.
I ticked
Top Field First
and Alternat.

What does scan type: ZigZag mean should i tick something else for that?

[Matthew]

Sounds suspiciously like wrong field order (most likely have enabled upper field first in CCE or offset line=1). You can swap the field order of the m2v losslessly using restream or pulldown.

[jel]

matthew was too quick for me :D
i was going to say the same thing....bitrate viewer *usually* gets PAL sources incorrect....there are a lot of threads on this subject

[jed]

Mathew do you mean i shouldn't have Top Field First ticked in DOCEE4U?
And if this is my problem why is the sio fine and i can only see the problem on my external player?

[Matthew]

I don't think it that is bitrate viewer is wrong, rather it is CCE's options being rather unintuitive. The source is no doubt top field first, but checking "upper field first" (or offset line=1 in 2.66+) is designed to change a bottom field first source into top field first.

Checking this option for top field first source does the reverse - it changes your material into bottom field first.

But CCE always outputs video with TFF flag, so you now have a BFF video stream which is flagged as TFF. The solution is to only check the option when source is BFF (or not check it at all, and change to BFF when required using restream or pulldown).

Change your m2v to BFF using restream or pulldown and then burn on an RW, it should be okay in your player.

And AFAIK, incorrect field order flag only results in jerkiness on a standalone player (or maybe also when using tvout as well, dunno).

[jed]

Hate to sound dumb, but you've kind of lost me there.
From what you've said shouldn't i just have to leave Top Feild Fist unticked in docce4u you and run that through as normal?
I've never had too use restream or pulldown befor

[jel]

you could do that but then you would have to encode again.
what matthew is suggesting is to use 'restream' or 'pulldown' to change the field order of your already encoded file...to save you all that encoding time again.
i found an intersesting thread on determining tff/bff order here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64838&highlight=bff)
and another thread (with explanations by matthew) on determining interlaced sources
here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37310&highlight=interlaced+dvd2avi)

and restream is avaliable here (http://shh.dvdboard.de/restream.html)

[jed]

I don't mind encoding again, i'm trying to figure out how i should do my pal projects for the future.
Am i correct in saying the only thing i should have ticked in DoCCE4u for an interlaced pal is Alternate? (Untick Top Field First and Progresive scan)
I will read those post thanks jel

[Matthew]

Originally posted by jed
From what you've said shouldn't i just have to leave Top Feild Fist unticked in docce4u you and run that through as normal?

Well I don't use docce4u, but IF the "top field first" button enables "upper field first" then leave it unchecked. Re-encoding with upper field first unchecked should result in good output. Of course, you should also have progressive unchecked and alternate scan enabled as well.

[Matthew]

Originally posted by jed
Am i correct in saying the only thing i should have ticked in DoCCE4u for an interlaced pal is Alternate? (Untick Top Field First and Progresive scan)

Yes, except if bitrate viewer reports

"Field topfirst: No"

Then you should check the "upper field first" box in CCE (or top field first in docce4u).

BTW if you don't trust bitrate viewer you can also check using vobedit...it reports the value for each i-frame...

[jed]

Thank you very much, that's were i was confused, if Bitrae viewer said "Field topfirst: Yes" i though that ment you had to tick Top Feild First so i had it the wrong way around. I will reencode using those setting over the weekend and post back with my results.
Thanks Again.

[jed]

Just wanted to end this post by saying after changing my docce4u settings so that only Alternate Scan is selected Pulp Fiction worked fine. Which i will be watching tomorrow night on my new projector! Thanks you everyone for you help yet again!