Forced subs in Alien (or any special edition DVD)

[hrg27]

Hi

As you know some DVDs have the feature that you can select to show a subtitle that pops up in parts of the movie that are director's cut or deleted scenes, something like "SPECIAL EDITION".

"Alien" has this feature and when you activate this mark-up in menu you can see it in those scenes.
Stream ID for these subs are 0x28 and 0x29. So what I did was I imported the English subs (0x20,0x21) as normal and tossed 6 dummy subtitles for other languages (which I didnot want) in Scenarist and then imported the "SPECIAL EDITION" subs. Therefore they would have the same ID in authored VOB files.

Now in my backup DVD, I can turn on this feature on menu and it will show the "SPECIAL EDITION" but if I try to show the English subs as well then none of them shows up and I end up with nothing as subtitle.
Even turning the English subs on while watching does not bring either of them back.

I should mention that since I used DIF4U for ripping, the forced-sub flag was automatically on for 0x28 and 0x29.

Has anyone tried this type of authoring before with any success ?

any help is appreciated.

Thanks
hrg27

[jel]

hmmm...dont actually have that movie but to clarify
you can select to show a subtitle that pops up in parts of the movie that are director's cut or deleted scenes,
are you saying that if you select "special edition" some subpics appear, that when you select them (press enter on your remote when you see them), they take you to 'deleted scenes', 'makings of' etc?
if so then your dealing with Button Over Video and thats a whole new ballgame :sly:

[hrg27]

No, it is not a button over video.
I can go to root menu of DVD and turn on the marker. then in the movie whenever it is a special scene included by director I will see a subtitle reading "SPECIAL EDITION" on the lower right corner of the screen for the period of that chapter and then it disappeares. No linking or jumping is involved.

[jel]

aaarrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh C#$^^$#$P!
just lost the 'longwinded' reply i had typed that explained all about forced subs etc cos our server went down...oh well.

concise version instead.:rolleyes:

your getting your Stream IDs mixed up with your Steams required
for example
0x20, 0x21 is substream 1, with one 'widescreen' the other 'letterboxed, so...
what you should try is .....
import english subs to substream 1
create '3' dummy substreams then
import your 'special edition' subs into substream 5.
set all substreams to 'W' and 'L' and it should work
let me know
j

[hrg27]

I am very sorry jel,
I updated my email address in the forum and it screwed my account and I could not post anything. Finallay after 8 days someone read my emails and activated my account :scared:

Back to the topic...
As you know DIF4U creates 2 folders for W and L subtitles.
When you are saying that I should import English subtitles, how should I do it ? Shall I just go ahead and import those two folders by using Scenarist's sub import dialoge using 2 different lines in that dialoge window or there is another way ?

Thanks

[jel]

no worries,
okay, well i made myself another coffee (its early morning-for me-and i am not really functioning yet :D ) so here goes.
lets start stream by stream.

0x20, 0x21 is substream 1, with one 'widescreen' the other 'letterboxed, so in the track editor, create substream 1 by adding new subtitle (while your at it create substream 2 as well).
then go to import subtitles and select stream 1 and navigate to your subs folder, and select the VTS_0*_VSUB_P1A1-00 sst file (or your applicable first subs).
then select the second stream and select the VTS_0*_VSUB_P1A1-00 "forced" sst file.
and import.

when its finished processing, use the second stream as your guide to alter any subs in the first stream to "forced". obviously if there are no subs in the second stream there are no forced subs required for substream 1.when your finished delete substream 2.

note: make sure substream 1 is set to both 'W' and 'L'

create '3' dummy substreams for substream 2, 3, and 4.

create substream 5 and 6 and (with the same steps you did for substream 1) import your 'special edition' subs into substream 5, and the associated "forced" subs into substream 6. adjust any subs in 5 to forced as required, and delete substream 6.
set substream 5 to 'W' and 'L'

note: you may have to change the substream settings for this track to 'custom' in the scenario editor....for a description read this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69011 it also contains some advice about NOT copying the audio and subpicture tables in ifoupdate.

hope that helps (and makes sense)
j

[hrg27]

Thanks for extensive guide, I will follow it and let you know what happened

[hrg27]

OK,

What happens to VTS_0*_VSUB_P1A1-01 (or VTS_02_VSUB_V001-01, in my case because it is a VOB-ID project) folders ?
Don't we need to import them to Scenarist for Letterbox subs ?

This is what I did:

Go to Settings->Track Stream Settings and click the + sign twice to generate 2 sub-streams. Then I clicked the "import subtitle" icon and followed what you said.
I have not compiled the project yet because it has 65 Tracks and I don't want to redo :confused: it, so O don't know if it will work out or not.

I create dummy subs as follows:
I write a small sst file which will have just one bmp file and its duration will be very short and then I import it 3 times.
Is this OK ?

Can I just create 3 substreams (using the + sign in Settings menu) and then NOT assign any sst to them ?
hrg27

[jel]

okay...well if you want a different way to go that has proven success with a vobid project (and because i am currently at work i cant check everything i have told you) you could reacreate your subs like 69mws did in this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68632 which basically states creating a substream for each aspect (W & L) seperately, so in this case you would have 10 substreams with corresponding id's set to W and L.
sorry i couldnt be more definitive but sometimes it helps to have the program in front of you :rolleyes:

[hrg27]

Thanks for the help

I think I will follow the latter strategy.

I will create 2xN substreams in Scenarist and Import corresponding folders to each stream.
I will manually set the language name as well as W or L buttons(either W or L, but not both).
And at the end (if my eyes can still see after doing this for 65 tracks :scared: ) I will NOT select "Copy Language" in IfoUpdate.

[jel]

i suggest several glasses of the beverage of your choice while undertaking this effort :D
and good luck with it all.
sorry i couldnt have been more help but i am simply not confident enough to tell you that my method would be 100% sucessful for what you are doing (although it has worked many times on 'pgc' projects i have tried)
the important thing to keep track of is correctly setting the required "forced subs" in each stream. you can check which subs are forced in the .sst files.
anyways, good luck and please post back with your results.
j

[hrg27]

the important thing to keep track of is correctly setting the required "forced subs" in each stream.

Since this is a VOB-ID project, I almost do not need to track the forced subs. Because those VOB-IDs which have "SPECIAL EDITION" sub, they are detected as forced by DIF4U, and the ones that don't have "SPECIAL EDITION", their 0x26, 0x27 is simply an empty forced sub. Therefore it is always forced for the last subtitle stream.

suggest several glasses of the beverage of your choice while undertaking this effort

I will start with wine, and probabely end up with Vodka ;)

Thanks :thanks:

And I will post back the results, maybe in one week :D