23.976 > 25 fps conversion

[Adz]

OK, I converted an AVI to (PAL)DVD using tmpgenc, and alls well, got it onto dvd playing fine on standalone. However I reallynotice the frame rate conversion when watching and it drives me mad. The source is 23.976 fps, and obviously the output is PAL 25fps. I'm guessing a duplicate frame is introduced every second.

Another way I've seen of doing this is to run the movie a little faster, so no extra frames are inserted, it also means the audio runs a little fast too.

Is there a way in tmpgenc to do this? Or do i need to change the duration of the audio using an audio app and change the frame rate of the avi to match? (so I have a 25fps AVI file).

I'd obvioulsy like to be able to use tmpgenc jus so there is no extra step when converting AVI's to DVD.

TIA.

[jojo15]

Normally you shouldn't notice the framerate conversion..
maybe it's something else,
which settings did you use?

[Adz]

I do notice it, and technically I should too :)

I'm currently playing about trying to change the framerate of the audio using besweet.

[Kika]

You can do this with TMPGEnc. Just activate "Do not frame rate conversion" in Settings -> Advanced.

For the Audio-Part i use WaveLab. It is doing the SpeedUp and changes the Pitch of the Audio-File.

[jojo15]

Using BeSweet to change the audio's framerate is a good idea..

[Kika]

No, it isn't. What you get after BeSweet is a Audio-Part which is De-Pitched by 4% (shifted to higher Frequncies). This Way of Sound-Convertion is imho a very lame Way.

[amirlsm]

TMPGenc is not a good framerate converter and you WILL notice the video jitter on a standalone DVD player.

I suggest two solutions:

1. Do not convert the framerate. Burn an "NTSC film" DVD (use TMPG DVD Author). Every avarage standalone player would play NTSC DVD with very good quality on a PAL TV using it's built-in NTSC->PAL hardware conversion.

or

2. Use a software package like Canopus ProCoder to do the framerate conversion. It does the conversion better than TMPEG but you will still notice the jitter in fast action frames.

I have tried both solutions and am now using the first (no conversion).

[Adz]

Is there a profile template for DVD NTSC Film? I am using tmgenc plus, and I only have an option for dvd > ntsc/pal and 3 modes, normal, low res, and 16:9 :) No option for ntsc film :S

[Kika]

@amirlsm

For 23.976 -> 25 FpS there's no need to do a Framerate-Conversion. It will produce jerky playback.
The only(!) correct way to convert such Videos is to do a PAL-SpeedUp, and that's something, ProCoder can't do, TMPGEnc can.

[Adz]

Well, I just tried creating an NTSC disc, and when I chose my 23.976fps source, it picked it up as Film, which I guess is what want :)

So thanks for the advice, I had totally forgot about the film standard and was presuming I should convert to PAL, doh :P

Thanks :)

[Adz]

Right, more probs :(

as mentioned before the source is 23.976fps, converted to DVD ntsc film...

now, the video is playing way too fast, when i've authored the m2v (which plays ok) and the wav into a vob (then it doesnt).

Any ideas? I think it's playing about 30% too fast :S

[Adz]

Originally posted by Kika
@amirlsm

For 23.976 -> 25 FpS there's no need to do a Framerate-Conversion. It will produce jerky playback.
The only(!) correct way to convert such Videos is to do a PAL-SpeedUp, and that's something, ProCoder can't do, TMPGEnc can.

It can do a pal speedup? with audio speedup? from what I've seen if I speed up the video, the audio goes out of sync, couldnt find a way to sort it other than convert the audio before hand to the right length :S

[Adz]

speedup seemed to be caused by ifoedit, using dvd author it worked fine...

Is there a way to do it successfully with ifoedit? I find dvd author slower at creating vobs :S (fussy arent i) :)

[amirlsm]

Sorry for not giving a full answer
1. "NTCS film" works for VCD and SVCD, not DVD.

2. I have uesd TMPG for NTSC film (23.97)-> PAL (25) and for NTSC (29.97)->PAL (25) conversion and the audio was just fine. I did not however produce a separate video an audio files - I have used TMPG to creat an MPG stream with no sync problems.

3. Still, the jerky video was notisable on a standalone player.

[Kika]

@Adz

Didn't you read what i wrote?
TMPGEnc is able to do a propper SpeedUp - for the Videopart!
For Audio, use an other Program. The Way with BeSweet produces a pitched Sound, a good WAVE-Editor will produce a only accelerated Sound with no pitching.

Oh, BTW: NTSC Film (23.976) is a valid format for DVDs.

[RB]

Originally posted by Kika
@Adz
Oh, BTW: NTSC Film (23.976) is a valid format for DVDs.
Uhm, but you still need to apply 3:2 pulldown which makes it 29.97 fps effectively.

[Kika]

but you still need to apply 3:2 pulldown which makes it 29.97 fps effectively.

No, not if you'r using TMPGEnc with the correct Settings:

Encode mode: 3:2 pulldown when playback
Frame rate: 23.976 fps (internally 29.97 fps)

[RB]

OK, so TMPGEnc adds the RFF flags by itself, good. I just wanted to point out that "NTSC Film (23.976) is a valid format for DVDs" is not entirely correct. NTSC is specified as 29.97 fps.

[northern]

Kika is correct. I have done several FILM -> PAL conversions. And indeed in TMPGEnc you have to select ""Do not frame rate conversion". This feeds the AVI at constant 24FPS speed to TMPGEnc which then creates 25FPS output. Now the video plays 4% faster than audio but that can be solved as Kika had said.

This is how (at least few years ago) most of the films were transferred to the TV audience i.e. the 4% speed up.

If you want to make an NTSC version of a FILM you indeed have to use that 3:2 pulldown as FILM is not supported as such in DVD format.