OGG in AVI, a definitive answer please?

[Swin]

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the best place to post but here goes.

Is there an answer to whether OGG audio file can be placed in AVI containers? From what I have read the answers have ranged from: -

- Yes, AVI supports OGG Audio fine, there is a widely used ACM filter for it.
- No, OGG can't be place within AVI files.
- Yes and No, OGG can be placed in AVI files, but they ten don't work properly, scanning will cause Audio/Synch errors due to the only program that is known to be able to do this (Nandub) writes bad header info (from the doc at MPlayer).

Well I think these answers cover all posibilities, so which is it?

Swin

[Koepi]

For now your 3rd option is correct.

alexnoe is investigating that matter and will (hopefully) come up with a proper solution (his ideas sound promising, but Ingo Ralf Blum didn't make it in 1 1/2 years of hard work, so it might be impossible to have vorbis properly multiplexed into avi so the playback works without hassles).

Regards
Koepi

[Tuning]

The truth is ogg muxing to avi is still corrupt (or b0rked). That is some way you can do muxing using different tools out there, but the final avi will not be playable at all (seeking will not work). So ogg muxing to avi is not recommended at the moment. alexnoe (author of AVI mux Gui) is trying hard to make it possible in the right way.

So untill it happens, ogg muxing in avi is not possible.:(

[bilu]

Answered here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=412393
Koepi wrote:
> Vorbis in AVI will be _very_ hard to achieve properly, the
> bitstream format (OGG) is simply very weird. [...]

Pamel wrote:
> [...] Its a combination of Variable Bitrate AND Variable
> Framerate because not only are all of the packets
> different sizes, they also each contain a different number
> of samples.

AlexNoe wrote:
> [...] And no, it is not similar to AAC. AAC has a constant
> frame duration within one file, Vorbis does not.

Bilu

[Atamido]

Originally posted by Koepi
it might be impossible to have vorbis properly multiplexed into avi so the playback works without hassles It IS impossible to properly mux Vorbis into AVI. However, Alexnoe may be able to get it to work (IE, mux it in such a way that it will play back properly). Although, it should be noted that this is more of an excersize in technical prowess than practicality.

[bond]

yeah, lets see if alex finds a nice way to put vorbis in .avi :)

btw its not OGG audio, its VORBIS audio!
vorbis is the audio codec, like aac, mp3, wma9...
ogg is the container format (in which vorbis audio can be stored, but also other formats - "OGM"), like avi, mkv, mp4, mov...

[alexnoe]

I'm not planning to put OGG into AVI: Although it definitely would work (I would just make OGG packets of equal duration!) if done properly, it would have hilarious overhead: 28+x bytes per page. To allow proper splitting, such a page should be not longer than 2 video frames, better would be only 1 (meaning something like 0.5 bytes overhead per millisecond), or should be a divisor of the keyframe interval (i.e. if you have a keyframe interval of 2 seconds, you could of course make packets of 0.5 or 1 second without b0rking splitting)

I've thought a bit about Vorbis in AVI, and I think some framing is required, i.e. it will need one more filter, like DTS-in-AVI does, to replay. I hope Gabest is going to help with that when the time has come. I guess that I will make OGG pages, but stripe the leading 27 bytes away. This gives an acceptable amount of overhead and could hopefully be replayed. We'll see.

[saratoga]

Originally posted by bond
yeah, lets see if alex finds a nice way to put vorbis in .avi :)

btw its not OGG audio, its VORBIS audio!
vorbis is the audio codec, like aac, mp3, wma9...
ogg is the container format (in which vorbis audio can be stored, but also other formats - "OGM"), like avi, mkv, mp4, mov...

Last time i checked the encoder was called oggenc. Maybe you could explain to the Xiph people that they're confused as well?

Or just let it go.

[robUx4]

Don't worry they also confused between Ogg and Vorbis when they designed both. That's why they are so related ;) (the container needs the codec to be understood)

[KpeX]

Originally posted by saratoga
Last time i checked the encoder was called oggenc. Maybe you could explain to the Xiph people that they're confused as well?


http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=17072

bond is correct. But the xiph people already know they're confused (http://wiki.xiph.org/VorbisToolsTodo) and plan to fix it.

[saratoga]

Originally posted by KpeX
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=17072

bond is correct. But the xiph people already know they're confused (http://wiki.xiph.org/VorbisToolsTodo) and plan to fix it.

Ha! I stand corrected then.

[HarryM]

On www.hydrogenaudio.org is announces true-CBR feature for Ogg Vorbis.

In connection with this case is any change in 'Ogg Vorbis in AVI'?