Encoding MiniDV to MPEG1 - Settings

[Lula]

Hi,

I would appreciate advice on the best settings for encoding to MPEG1.

SOURCE MATERIAL : MiniDV shot with Sony Mini-DV DCR PC9 .

CAPTURE AND EDITING : Video has been capture using a Pinnacle Studio DV capture card with firewire port, as 720x480 AVI. Editing has been conducted with Pinnacle Studio.

MY GOAL : Have the video burned as MPEG1 on CD-R as part of a multimedia presentation. This will only be run on PC running Windows.
My goal is to have a "normal window" view for video as 384x288. And an option for "full screen" which could be something like 640x480.

QUESTIONS :

A - So, to watch this video exclusively on computer, should I have to deinterlace, even for 384x288 ?

B - What do you normally (for MPEG1 encoding) use for :
1 - Aspect ratio, on Video Tab
2 - Field order, on Advanced Tab
3 - Source Aspect Ratio, on Advanced Tab
4 - Video Arrange Method, on Advanced Tab
5 - Deinterlace Method, on Advanced Tab
6 - Clip frame ( do you go from captured 720x480 to final 384x288 with or without clipping the video)
7 - Arrange Setting on Clip Frame, on Advanced Tab
8 - GOP structure
9 - Quantize matrix setting and options enabled
10 - Audio settings on Audio Tab
11 - Stream type on System Tab

Thank's in advance for any help.

[LeonMcNichol]

Answers:

A) I believe MPEG1 cannot have interlaced material, so deinterlacing will have to be done.

B) If it's just computer playback, use vbr and probably keep the settings pretty standard to vcd, just changing to vbr.

[r6d2]

@Lula,

These guides may be useful:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32197
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60392

If it's going to be played only on a PPT, then you can use whatever codec you have installed, you're not restricted to MPEG-1.

If you want to have two different sizes, you can encode twice or encode just the bigger one and let the PC do the resizing to the smaller one at playback time.

@LeonMcNichol,

AFAIK, what MPEG-1 does not support is Pulldown. MPEG-1 NTSC is always interlaced.

[scharfis_brain]

btw. 4:3 - resolution is about 704x480 (711x486)
this mean, you have to crop 8 pixels left AND right and then you can resize to 640x480,384x288 (352x288)

resizing 720x480 directly to 640x480 will result in a slightly false AspectRatio

[Lula]

@r6d2 : Thank's for the links. One of them is for DVD (Mpeg2), which is not my case. I use a Multimedia Authoring package and video will be part of the multimedia presentation. It will be burned on CD-R (some 200 copies will be distributed) and played ONLY on computers ( NOT on DVD players ). I use MPEG1 since it delivers good quality with reasonable file size and is compatible with the vast majority of PC's running Windows, without the need to install codecs on user's computer.

Do I have to deinterlace the video shot with Sony MiniDV, for the above purpose ?

Yes, I plan to encode just to the bigger size ( 640x480 maybe ). My multimedia authoring software has an internal video player that can resize to 384x288 without any problem (in fact, this will be the initial size that the video will be presented, with an option to show it at the bigger size ).

What is the maximum video bitrate that can be used, which will not face problems with CD-ROM drive speed capabilities ? have heard that 1200 would be a limit, since beyond that, only the newest CD-ROM drives could read the CD-R without dropping frames or stutering .

@scharfis_brain : yes, this is something which I have read about (the square and rectangular pixel stuff) but have never quite figured out. As mentioned, my project will only be shown on computers, and ran from CD-R . I captured the video at 720x480 (this is NOT 4:3). I would like to have it as 640x480 and 384x288 (these are 4:3). You mention 704x480 as close to 4:3 (I don't understand ?). Can you detail that ?

Someone has suggested to set frame rate to 10 fps, as to have smaller file size. I am not so worried about file size anyway. The videos are not long on this project. But wouldn't 10 fps deliver worst quality ?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Lula
I use MPEG1 since it delivers good quality with reasonable file size and is compatible with the vast majority of PC's running Windows, without the need to install codecs on user's computer.
I don't know which codecs come with a fresh install of Windows, but if your goal is portability, you could use standard AVIs (if such a thing exists) ;)
Do I have to deinterlace the video shot with Sony MiniDV, for the above purpose ?
IMHO, no, you don't, but several DV experts (I'm not one of them), suggest you should.

Aspect ratios/pixel ratios are difficult to grasp, but a good advice is to use a resizer tool which does the job and does it well, like FitCD.
What is the maximum video bitrate that can be used, which will not face problems with CD-ROM drive speed capabilities ?
CDs which are 2x, which are old and seldom available, support about up to 2756 (Audio+Video). 4x will cope easily with 5000, so this should not be an issue.
You mention 704x480 as close to 4:3 (I don't understand ?). Can you detail that ?
If you really want to learn about it, I suggest this guide (http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/conversion/).
Someone has suggested to set frame rate to 10 fps, as to have smaller file size. I am not so worried about file size anyway.
You should not go for less than 24 fps so the eye can see fluent motion.

If size is not an issue, use a quality based encoding mode and don't worry about setting the BR.

[scharfis_brain]

You should not go for less than 24 fps so the eye can see fluent motion.
But only when dealing with 24p source. every unfractional framerate-conversion will introduce stuttering and jerkyness.

Since DV-Video is interlaced 60i, you have to settle with a fractional framerate like 30, 20, 15 or 10 fps.
all of them need deinterlacing.

when you want to use 24fps without stuttering, you have to interpolate /blend every second frame out of 2 nearby ones.

This can be done with convert60ito24p
http://home.arcor.de/scharfis_brain/60ito24p.html

[r6d2]

@scharfis_brain,

Very interesting filter indeed. :thanks:

Perhaps you can get me out of my ignorance on this matter: if DV is 60i, it seems to be suggested to deinterlace. But according to this (http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm) guide, regarding pure interlaced DVD sources, it says "Deinterlace only as a last resort, because of the quality hit you'll take".

I know that DV is not a DVD source, but doesn't this apply to DV too?

What if you use just interlaced resizing, ala FitCD? Shouldn't the oputput be cleaner and keep the most detail?

For instance, for a given DVD source, FitCD says:
BilinearResize(432,338,15,0,690,480)
AddBorders(24,64,24,78)
And with interlaced resizing, it says:
SeparateFields()
BilinearResize(432,169,15,0,690,240).Weave()
AddBorders(24,70,24,72)
What do you think? May this apply to DV too?

[Lula]

@r6d2 and scharfis_brain,

Thank's for your help.

When you quote what is said on that guide "Deinterlace only as a last resort, because of the quality hit you'll take", does that suggest a quality loss ?

The interlaced effect that I see is pretty much how it is shown here :
http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm#InterlacingDeinterlacing

I never used FitCD, I am just using TMPGEnc's Deinterlace ( with Even-Odd Field (Field) option ). Would that be the correct choice ?

but if your goal is portability, you could use standard AVIs (if such a thing exists)

Yes, portability is the main goal, but AVIs will yield huge file size, which will not fit on a MiniCD ( 190 Mbytes ), so I do have to compress to Mpeg1 ( don't want to use DivX and mess with installing codecs on user's computer ).

What is the maximum video bitrate that can be used, which will not face problems with CD-ROM drive speed capabilities ?
CDs which are 2x, which are old and seldom available, support about up to 2756 (Audio+Video). 4x will cope easily with 5000, so this should not be an issue.


Sorry, I should have also mentioned CPU usage. I don't want to raise too much the bitrate so as to make it too CPU intensive, causing mid spec computers to play the video kind of jerky (sorry for my english). What would be the limiting value in order to avoid this behaviour and still have a nice quality for 384x288 (mainly) and 640x480 (if possible) ?

btw. 4:3 - resolution is about 704x480 (711x486)this mean, you have to crop 8 pixels left AND right and then you can resize to 640x480,384x288 (352x288)

resizing 720x480 directly to 640x480 will result in a slightly false AspectRatio

OK, so I am using TMPGEnc's Clip Frame with the 8 pixels on left and right as you suggested. As for Arrange Setting ( Arrage Method ) which option should be used ( I went for Full Screen, although there are 3 of those full screen settings) ?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Lula
When you quote what is said on that guide "Deinterlace only as a last resort, because of the quality hit you'll take", does that suggest a quality loss ?
Yes.

The interlaced effect that I see is pretty much how it is shown here
Deinterlacing is never perfect. That's why if I were you I'd try interlaced resizing with FitCD.
Yes, portability is the main goal, but AVIs will yield huge file size
AVI is just a container, you can have any codec there. Some codecs compress better than MPEG-1, if size is a limitation. You have to do a trade off there.
Sorry, I should have also mentioned CPU usage. I don't want to raise too much the bitrate so as to make it too CPU intensive
BR, caeteris paribus, depends on frame size. If you want to have 640x480, a BR of about 4Kbps may be needed.
OK, so I am using TMPGEnc's Clip Frame with the 8 pixels on left and right as you suggested. As for Arrange Setting ( Arrage Method ) which option should be used ( I went for Full Screen, although there are 3 of those full screen settings) ?
Try FitCD. You'll be glad you did.

P.S.: About your PM, :readrule:

[scharfis_brain]

Originally posted by r6d2
P.S.: About your PM, :readrule:

dito... :rolleyes: