New VP6 codec - 6.0.9.2

[MfA]

I probably wont get an answer to this ... but Im curious, do you guys think predicting from past frames only can be made just as efficient as a scheme which uses bidirectional prediction? (Intuitively I would agree.) For H264 it was shown forward prediction only could not tie with bidirectional prediction, no matter how many reference frames were used ... is this because of inefficiencies in the temporal coding of motion (which with bidirectional coding can use direct mode) and/or of occlusion/innovation regions?

[Teegedeck]

@Pamel: Could you please post this in the XviD-forum with a more detailed description of your setup?

[ookzDVD]

@On2Tech,

I would like to ask you : 1 kilo = 1000 or 1024 ?

Why you use kilobytes/s not kilobits/s, I think kbits/s is more
common.

Next...

Is there any BIG different between "Good Quality" and "Best Quality"
for the 2-nd pass method ?



Thanks.

[yedo1]

I am using VP6 for streaming in NSV format.
I think the configure of VP6 is not simple like wmv or RV9.
I have some question about configure.I can't understand some setting.

Why Do I need specifie Peak Bitrate?
at configure Window advanced>streaming parameter
there is peak bitrate setting(%) but I already spacifie target bitrate at the outside of codec(in NSV nsvenc will do).
Why do I need specifies twice? There in no setting like this at wmv or RV.

[C0mPr355]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
@On2Tech,

I would like to ask you : 1 kilo = 1000 or 1024 ?

Why you use kilobytes/s not kilobits/s, I think kbits/s is more
common.

Next...

Is there any BIG different between "Good Quality" and "Best Quality"
for the 2-nd pass method ?



Thanks.

KB is only used mainly because of the Virtual Dub interface. It uses KB rather than kb to calculate bitrate. This has nothing to do with our codec. (I believe we use the 1024 style kb).

As far as "Good Quality" is concerned (on2tech can answer this more technically than I, but I will give you a general idea) it is akin to the normal setting (although not two-pass) of the older single pass compressor. In other words the compressor will attempt to compress the footage in the best possible way as close to real time as possible. The "Best Quality" setting attempts to compress the footage as best as possible without regards to time. So if you are in a hurry then use good quality, if not then use best. Again, we are still working on tweaking the two pass to make it better (both time wise and quality wise).

[gino25]

I' ve a problem

When i compress a video the output file i very big.

I change the bitrate in vbudmod, but the size doesn' t change.

How can i set the correct bitrate?

[Tommy Carrot]

Originally posted by gino25
I' ve a problem

When i compress a video the output file i very big.

I change the bitrate in vbudmod, but the size doesn' t change.

How can i set the correct bitrate?

It's in kbyte/s, not kbit/s. Divide the wished bitrate with 8.

[gino25]

Oh ok thank you very much

[GolovachLena]

Originally posted by On2Tech
VP6 has no forward prediction, plus a keyframe is entirely self contained.

Is any stats reader planned? If not, could you describe a bit format of stats file of the codec?

[Sirber]

@on2tech

can we use the codec for home uses whitout any restriction?

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by Sirber
@on2tech

can we use the codec for home uses whitout any restriction?

If by home use you mean personal non-commercial uses than I think the answer is yes. For completeness sake here's a link to our license:

VP6 License (http://www.on2.com/duckutils/duck_license.php3?class=vp6)

If there's any question about a specific use please contact info@on2.com..

[dimzon]

2 On2Tech

Any comments about vp6 AVI and EVD Player compatibility?
If I create AVI with vp6 video (current codec version) and mp3 audio and burn it on CD-R or DVD-R it will play on EVD Player in future?

May be You know...

[slavickas]

Originally posted by On2Tech
If by home use you mean personal non-commercial uses than I think the answer is yes. For completeness sake here's a link to our license:

VP6 License (http://www.on2.com/duckutils/duck_license.php3?class=vp6)

If there's any question about a specific use please contact info@on2.com..

>6. install more than one copy of the Software (other than the one >permitted archival copy) or run multiple instances of the Software >on a single computer; or

weird license :D
if i ran 2 instances of vdub with vp6 encoding, i'll violate license??? :rolleyes:

[Sirber]

I did an encode (at 380kbps :D) to test against RealVideo 9 and both are very simmilar. I'll post the source, the rmvb and the mkv.

Source: [ANBU-AonE]Naruto 64.avi (DX50,MP3)

RV9 settings:
450kbps (inc 64kbps) RV9
2-pass
DropDupe @ 1
EHQ 65/85

VP6 Settings:
48KBps (external 64kbps vorbis) VP91
2-pass - Best quality
max KF: 750
all defaults + Spacial Resempling

Here's what I see:

Good for RV9:
* Constant level of detail
Bad for RV9:
* Keep most source artefacts
* Strange motion sometimes

Good for VP6:
* Clean overal image (With full PP)
Bad for VP6:
* Blured edges
* Some muskito noise around edges
* Quality level change in low motion scenes
* Strange motion sometimes (looks like framedrop)

I'll have 3 clip ready for download tomorrow. The source is still unlicensed so it's ok to download it.

[Bulletproof]

Originally posted by Sirber
Bad for VP6:
* Blured edges

You put spatial resampling on, thats to be expected.


* Some muskito noise around edges


DivX source isn't exactly the best thing to test with since it suffers from mosquito noise around edges.


* Quality level change in low motion scenes


I haven't seen this, but what you might be seeing is a missed keyframe, and once that keyframe is missed the subsequent frames suffer too. It also could be the bitrate cutoff that saves bitrates for high motion areas. You also set the keyframes 750 frames apart, that is a pretty wide gap.


* Strange motion sometimes (looks like framedrop)


Maybe you had temporal resampling on too?

[Sirber]

Temporal resempling is by default, so I used it. For the clips, it will take longer to have them on the web server. I will return to work in 5 days.

[DevilsChild]

Hi,

I was encoding the movie "Vertical Limit" with VP61 and noticed a few "shit frames" near the beginning of the video:

http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/blc2004/image.jpg

These weird blocks are present in 5 consecutive frames (6485-6489), then stop when the key-frame kicks in.

Created avisynth with GKnot:
-Neutral Bicubic resize to 640x336
-Used undot.dll and mpeg2dec3.dll

Settings:
-Target Datarate = 183 KB/s
-Force Keyframe (in VirtualDubMod) = 99999
-VBR
-Progressive
-Auto Keyframe ON
-Max Frames BTW Keys = 120

Two Pass, First Pass
-Undershoot = 90%
-Min Quant = 1, Max Quant = 10
-Temporal and Spatial Resampling OFF

Two Pass, Second Pass
-Same as first pass
-Variability = 40%
-Min Section = 80%
-Max Section = 300%


The only thing I could think of is, maybe I set the quantizers wrong? I was playing around with the max quantizer to see what would happen, though I don't know how quantizers work...

[Sirber]

-Force Keyframe (in VirtualDubMod) = 99999

this might be the problem...

[DevilsChild]

Originally posted by Sirber
-Force Keyframe (in VirtualDubMod) = 99999

this might be the problem...

Nah, that just disables the auto-keyframe in VDubMod, as recommended in the VP6 "User's Guide".

I encoded the film a second time with the exact same settings and didn't notice any bad frames. Guess it was just a freak occurence...

[Sirber]

Can you post some screenshot?

[DevilsChild]

I put a screenshot in my original post.

Here's a link:
http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/blc2004/image.jpg

[Sirber]

what I meant was some screenshot(s) of your movie, good screenshots :)

[Sagittaire]

It's a bug but not very best setting ...

Two Pass, Second Pass
-Same as first pass
-Variability = 40%
-Min Section = 80%
-Max Section = 300%

default setting are better ...

Two Pass, Second Pass
-Same as first pass
-Variability = 70%
-Min Section = 40%
-Max Section = 400%

[slavickas]

maybe it's possible to download older build while problem with generating badframes.stt persists? :confused: