DVDStripper creating dead links, is this common?

[FredThompson]

I've registered DVDStripper and completely expect it will be helpful in a lot of cases. However, It seems to frequently create a dead result such that removing portions of the source yield a disc with a gap. Usually, this means removing nag screens, previews, etc. with the intent of quickly getting to the main menu doesn't work. It's as if the linkage which should drive the player to the main menu is busted. Hitting the key or function to load the main menu will work and things are fine after that.

For example, removing static elements from VIDEO_VTS with DVDStripper tends to yield a dead result. I don't mean removing a VOB set, I mean portions within the VIDEO_VOB. If there are, say, 3 or 4 elements in the sequence of this VOB and 2 or 3 are chosen for removal, the output has been dead. Instead, playback should proceed as if they never existed.

Is this the common experience? Granted, DVDStripper is just now at a version of 0.2.0 so is nothing close to a 1.0 stability product.

Additionally, I've noticed that running DVDStripper on DVDFabbed files in an attempt to remove content results in the DVDFab "change disc" message being removed and the last VOB having a few goofy almost-null frames appended. It also seems to take forever, as if the entire file set is being re-processed. 2Cool's guides show how to very simply remove a single-PGC set in a few seconds. DVDSplitter screws with a lot more of the structure. Why is this? Is it poor design or some kind of one-size-fits-all approach?

[jhmac]

DVDSplitter? Never heard of this program! But you should check out DVDStripper, I have backed up over 15 DVDs with the help of this great little program it works for me and many others...

[FredThompson]

Whoops, I meant DVDStripper.

[ablindog]

I've been using DVDStripper since it's release, on over 3 dozen of my collection. On 3 different back-ups I removed something from the original that caused what you refer to. So easilly enough I redid them until I got the result that I wanted.

Great program for us IfoEditaphobics, especially when used with Menuedit and DVDShrink. :cool:

HR

[FredThompson]

What do you mean you "redid" them?

[ablindog]

Originally posted by FredThompson
What do you mean you "redid" them?

DVDStripper automatically backs itself up when it completes. If you haven't edited and saved button screens in the menu with MenuEdit then everything is still there and I just redo it and add back in things I can live with until I find that which caused the glitch.

HR

[Arianos]

uhm.... what's the point of repeating here something that you already posted on the DVDStripper forum and already got PLENTY of answers and help there?
http://www.dvdrbase.com/showthread.php?t=35213
Plus,as ablindog pointed out, if you mess something, you can always re-process till you do it right.
Plus, the author of the program has already given you a temporary solution:
"..your temporary solution is to use DVDStripper first and DVDFAB afterwards so it can alter the structure whichever way it does with the stripped DVD. ...."
Plus you say in your first post here "...It seems to frequently create a dead result such that removing portions of the source yield a disc with a gap..." yet on that thread you mention only one DVD, or DVDs that you have used DVDFab on them beforehand :)
To me the answer is quite obvious, and MackemX pointed it to you already:
" .. One way to check (the validity of files created with DVDFab) is to load a DVDFab DVD into DVDShrink 3.0 Beta 5 and see of it picks up the VOB as a title or unreferenced material. Let me know please as I would like to know if there's a simple solution. ..."
To which suggestion, you never answered back (in fact, I was following that thread, and was curious myself :) )

[FredThompson]

Are you trying to be argumentive or are you confused?Originally posted by Arianos
uhm.... what's the point of repeating here something that you already posted on the DVDStripper forum and already got PLENTY of answers and help there? This is a different issue and a different set of people.Plus,as ablindog pointed out, if you mess something, you can always re-process till you do it right.The question is about DVDSplitter creating bad product, not me making an improper choice.Plus, the author of the program has already given you a temporary solution:
"..your temporary solution is to use DVDStripper first and DVDFAB afterwards so it can alter the structure whichever way it does with the stripped DVD. ...."Wrong, again. DVDSplitter is creating broken output.Plus you say in your first post here "...It seems to frequently create a dead result such that removing portions of the source yield a disc with a gap..." yet on that thread you mention only one DVD, or DVDs that you have used DVDFab on them beforehand :)Any belief that the totality of my actions is entirely chronicled in a thread on another board which you chose to associate with this thread is entirely your mistake. DVDFab is mentioned at the bottom of this post and is not a prerequisite to the first part of this post. The word, "additionally" delineates a new, related topic.

I see how the thread title is inappropriate and have changed it. As I was typing the initial post of this thread, I realized part of the question was more suited for the ifo/vob editing area and altered the plan of this post. I should have changed the thread title. Sorry. I've also elaborated on the first post.
To me the answer is quite obvious, and MackemX pointed it to you already:
" .. One way to check (the validity of files created with DVDFab) is to load a DVDFab DVD into DVDShrink 3.0 Beta 5 and see of it picks up the VOB as a title or unreferenced material. Let me know please as I would like to know if there's a simple solution. ..."
To which suggestion, you never answered back (in fact, I was following that thread, and was curious myself :) ) See comment about that my life and activities are not entirely chronicled in a thread on another board. The question is not the validity of DVDFab files. It never was. The issue, as clearly stated above, is DVDSplitter creating broken chains. That has nothing to do with DVDFab. I only use DVDShrink in very rare circumstances. If MackemX or you wish to test this scenario, test it yourself. I wasn't obligated to do so, especially at that particular moment.

[2COOL]

@FredThompson

Sorry I don't have an answer for you but just wanted to point out that you posted "DVDSplitter" all over your last post. Just wanted to tell you that. ;)

[FredThompson]

Oops. Dunno why I'm doing that, must be exhausted.Been talking about muxing problems for hte past couple of days in a different forum.

[MackemX]

@FredThompson

I have asked questions and offered suggestions over at the DVDStripper forum and I'm still waiting for some feedback on your issues as I do not yet have the time to split a DVD for myself. I thought you may have missed my post with one question as it was a big post as I had no feedback :(. How can I help you if you won't load the files into DVDShrink, which will take you all of a few minutes?. It's impossible to recreate people's errors for a few reasons :( and that's why I hoped you would try it. If you don't I can't help you as much as I could if you help me also. It's very hard to troubleshoot someone's issues without certain information

One way to check is to load a DVDFab DVD into DVDShrink 3.0 Beta 5 and see of it picks up the VOB as a title or unreferenced material or something else. Let me know please as I would like to know if there's a simple solution. If you don't see it then see if it's at the end of the movie title
if you feed DVDStripper a DVD produced from another program. not just DVDFab, then you cannot be sure that the DVD structure is 100% valid. With very intensive testing I have noticed a few DVD related programs that make mistakes when generating IFO's, some obvious but some very hard to trace and surprising but I won't say which ones as I fear a flame war ;). Even DVDStripper has bugs I'm aware of and probably some I'm not, yet people haven't noticed some but which software is perfect anyway? :). I will try to identify the cause of the bugs (not just DVDStripper) and I guess I love troubleshooting :D

and another post I asked where the DVD was stoppping
http://www.dvdrbase.com/showthread.php?t=35220

[FredThompson]

I have asked questions and offered suggestions over at the DVDStripper forum and I'm still waiting for some feedback on your issues as I do not yet have the time to split a DVD for myself.Does that statement seem as ridiculous/incomprehensible (putting it mildly) to you as it does to me? It's been a couple of weeks and you don't have the time to split a DVD although you'll accept money and provide tech support for a program which you've created to do this?!?!

Now, to the actual topic:

I offered to provide an IFO, straight from a source disc, which wasn't being handled properly and was told that isn't appropriate. I'd already told you the problem wasn't just happening with DVDFabbed source. When I mentioned the title, your reply was that you can't help with commercial source.

There's no need to run a straight rip through DVDShrink to test the validity of the files. The DVD plays, period. Even if the original data somehow violates strict DVD standards, it does play. Again, this is raw source, not DVDFabbed stuff.

I've done nothing to prevent you access to the data which DVDStripper 0.2.0 isn't handling properly. The disc in question is at my sister's house and I'm not there now. Nor have I been for the past week and a half. I've been out of the continent on a business trip.

All I did was select a nag screen from VIDEO_TS for deletion. The resultant files, after DVDSplitter worked them over, would start then abort before the main menu. It was as if the DVD had finished. This happened with hardware players and PowerDVD. I nulled that segment manually with IfoEdit and things worked fine. My guess is some combination of factors led DVDSplitter to glitch or there is an unexpected set of data which DVDSplitter doesn't handle properly. IIRC, the same thing happened with the second original disc from the same title as well.

Yes, I didn't see your reply from yesterday.

[FredThompson]

I've just run DVDShrink on a DVDFabbed output and the structure is recognized as valid. However, that's an entirely different circumstance than what I'm trying to describe/query in this thread. Will replly back in the DVDSPlitter forum.

[MackemX]

firstly I will ask you to please change your tone of your posts towards me as I don't really appreciate it but I will still try to help you regardless. What do you mean it's been a couple of weeks?. You only posted this issue on December 20th, less than 48 hours ago, and you got a reply just after 2 hours and every reply since has been as quick as I could

I pointed you to the link which states I do not offer support on copyrighted material. That doesn't mean I still cannot help you with some of your issues

my point is that there is not enough time to deal with every individual problem. That's why I sometimes ask the user to help by trying things I would as it is much quicker for them as they have the files and it's impossible for me to recreate the issue sometimes. Some users have helped me immensly (thankyou :D) and helped me solve the issues far quicker and easier than if I'd done it by myself

I asked you to try the DVD that DVDFab produced through DVDShrink as that is one of the first things I would try. It shouldn't take you that long but how can I help you to test it? Apart from spending a few hours on it myself, which sadly I don't have at the minute, I also don't have the DVD so it's very difficult for me to test

a DVD still may play even if it's non compliant as it all depends on the player used. If you try it in a fussier player such as some of the Sony's then it will refuse to play the DVD claiming it's a dirty disc. PowerDVD is very leniant when it comes to playing DVD's

IIRC you have an issue that the Insert Disc 2 vob goes missing and this is the DVD I want you to load into DVDShrink
(http://www.dvdrbase.com/showthread.php?t=35213

you also have an issue saying that 2nd DVD doesn't play after splitting(http://www.dvdrbase.com/showthread.php?t=35220) which I can also help with

p.s. it's DVDStripper not DVDSplitter

[MackemX]

Originally posted by FredThompson
I"ve just run DVDShrink on a DVDFabbed output and it's valid. However, that's an entirely different circumstance than what I'm trying to describe/query in this thread. Will replly back in the DVDSPlitter forum.

I know this is not the same issue as this hanging player issue but you have 2 issues. I linked them in my last post and you have posted just before I had :)

with the other issue I was wanting to know where the DVDFab VOB is located so I could see how DVDFab works when inserting a graphic

this hanging issue can temporarily overcome by changing the first play in the VIDEO_TS IFO until I isolate your issue and offer a permanent solution

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by MackemX
firstly I will ask you to please change your tone of your posts towards me as I don't really appreciate it but I will still try to help you regardless. What do you mean it's been a couple of weeks?. You only posted this issue on December 20th, less than 48 hours ago, and you got a reply just after 2 hours and every reply since has been as quick as I could.I felt the same way about the posts from Arianos and you. Reading your second post, I see why you are confused. I was talking about posts on the DVDSplitter board from a couple of weeks ago. If you look at it from that perspective, and you know by now I've been traveling, it sure seemed insulting to be told I was delaying you. Make sense?

Yes, I don't want to squabble, either.I pointed you to the link which states I do not offer support on copyrighted material. That doesn't mean I still cannot help you with some of your issues.Yes, I know. The point was if the IFO itself has a structure which is breaking DVDSplitter, you'd need to see that data to find the aberant cause.

Again, I think the confusion of you thinking about my post from last night and me thinking about a couple of weeks ago helped to create a little mess.a DVD still may play even if it's non compliant as it all depends on the player used. If you try it in a fussier player such as some of the Sony's then it will refuse to play the DVD claiming it's a dirty disc. PowerDVD is very leniant when it comes to playing DVD'sThere are some other things which the spec dictates and players seem to ignore. The RFF is a good example. Yes, staying as compliant as possible is desired. You are completely correct.IIRC you have an issue that the Insert Disc 2 vob goes missing and this is the DVD I want you to load into DVDShrink
(http://www.dvdrbase.com/showthread.php?t=35213

you also have an issue saying that 2nd DVD doesn't play after splitting(http://www.dvdrbase.com/showthread.php?t=35220) which I can also help with

p.s. it's DVDStripper not DVDSplitter I'm creating a new set of test data as I've already manually edited the first set and burned it. All that is at my sister's house. Even so, until I have access to her original discs, it's not that likely I can reconstruct the situation. I can, however, work on gathering info for you wrt DVDFab's "change disc" VOB. I'd like to move that discussion back over to the DVDStripper forum. This post was intended to see if other people have had the problem of no getting to the main menu after removing nag screens from the VIDEO_VTS. Reading it now, the whole thread is a mess. I'll start another one to ask just that question.

Yeah, I know about the name. I've been chatting about muxing a lot lately and that combined with lack of sleep, trying to adjust to a 7 hour time difference, coming back from 3+ weeks of travel and the urgency of shipping stuff out tomorrow when I'd really prefer to sleep the day away has me all in a (non-Gordian) knot. I'm not trying to be difficult.

[MackemX]

your 1st post is on 20th December, have I missed something as I don't see any previous posts from you on the forum :confused:

you aren't delaying me in any way :), it's just you can help to get an answer a lot quicker by doing a bit of troubleshooting for me. At the minute you cannot as you do not have the discs but when you do it will help

I do know that some DVD's can be problematic but I have solutions to most of the ones I'm aware of. Some have been fixed in DS updates but some are yet to be fixed :( but I do know what is causing the issues in the ones that haven't been fixed so all is not lost :)

I may have a solution to this problem real soon if I can get a few things sorted first as it will fix this issue straight away but I may also fix it now with your help ;)

[FredThompson]

Hmmm...you're right. I'm all screwed up. Have taken four or five naps today trying to reset my internal clock. I would have sworn we discussed this problem in November before I left. I know we chatted about the hardware ID thing. That sure changes the entire situation. Well, please accept my apologies. You, too, Arianos.

If I can re-create the problems, I'll let you know. From what I see, it is somewhat common to have a slew of play-once-on-disc-start items, both true video and all-black sections. This is where most of the problems were happening. IIRC, Spruce was used to author the set I had problems with a while ago.

Do you the ability to set the column title colors on the DVDStripper board? The defaults are almost impossible to use, royal blue text ona navy blue background. Yuck.

[StanHere]

Hi Fred,

As a delighted, well-satisfied devotee of "DVDStripper" since its beta inception, I like Arianos would like to know how & when this program produces "dead links" [in fact unacceptable output(s)of any kind] despite following the authors' 1)general guidelines and 2) personal follow up assistance.

While using this program 1st, prior to DVDShrink and then MenuEdit processing/adjustment, I have succeeded in backing up over 40 single feature and episodic DVD's far faster & more efficiently than with prior means, methods & programs.

Also, I can testify that DVDStripper will fail-to-produce desired results when MackemX's existing instructions are ignored......as I did twice! [ 1)Running the wrong version of IfoEdit and 2)Multi-tasking during DVDStripper's most intensive processing :-( ]


Good Luck

[FredThompson]

Well, a problem which pops up when running multiple processes would indicate DVDStripper and/or IfoEdit doesn't like dynamic memory allocation in Windows. I'm almost always running multiple tasks except when burning a DVDR. If that was the cause, there's no way to duplicate, even when I have the discs again.

Crud, that would be a hard one to debug because of the sporadic nature.

[MackemX]

although I ask that's the unknown blanks be left in, DVDStripper can still produce certain issues but some are beyond it's control

Most are being worked on as the problems sometimes lie in the updating of the IFO's which is beyond DS :( but that doesn't mean they cannot be overcome with automatic workarounds within DS as a few already have ;)

I'm in the process of developing tools that will help in showing which parts of the DVD have commands or hidden buttons to further improve the results

the IFO updating process is very sensitive for some PC's as it does not lock out user input from the mouse or key. If the window pops up just as you press a key or your mouse it will have an effect if you press the right thing at the wrong time :(

some users with dual CPU's have had issues but after assigning 1 CPU to the programs instead, it seems to be OK. It doesn't lose that much processing time anyway as it's mostly data transfer

you can still do things with your PC while DS is running, I've burnt a CD, been downloading files, chatting on IM's while testing DS. It's all down to knowing what you can do and what your PC is capable of

@FredThompson, thanks for clearing it up as I was real confused. I'll mention the colours and just shout up when you get some data I can work with ;)

[FredThompson]

I should have something for you by the end of the week.

Sorry for the confusion. It was entirely my creation.

Perhaps you'd want to consider forcing the automation of IfoEdit into a second, hidden virtual desktop. Certainly not something that's high priority. Function is more important than form.

[MackemX]

We've looked at a few things to stablize this process but most don't work but who knows, in time DS may not rely on Ifoedit ;)

IFOEdit is a very powerful tool but all DS does is use IFOEdit to update the IFO's and the VOB NAV packs, not stripping or anything else. I'm busy developing an additional tool for DS to do such a process along with allowing you to edit certain entries that commonly get adjusted making authoring even easier

it will fix a lot of issues in IFO updating process and it's just a question of time and I hope most can bear with us :)

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by MackemX
We've looked at a few things to stablize this process but most don't work but who knows, in time DS may not rely on Ifoedit ;)

IFOEdit is a very powerful tool but all DS does is use IFOEdit to update the IFO's and the VOB NAV packs, not stripping or anything else. I'm busy developing an additional tool for DS to do such a process along with allowing you to edit certain entries that commonly get adjusted making authoring even easier

it will fix a lot of issues in IFO updating process and it's just a question of time and I hope most can bear with us :) Seems pretty clear on examination that DVDStripper breaks all the elements into individual pieces to more easily re-combine them. Perhaps, at some point, DVDStripper will do all that with a data table and go from ISO to files/ISO. That might have some real speed benefits through decrease hard drive use.

Given your reponses elsewhere, going back to DVD9 from 2 DVD5s would also be wonderful for future use.

Personally, I really like the "change disc" graphics or animations used by some other splitters. Maybe you'll add that capability later...