Turn subtitles off in MKV

[sumpm1]

Using MKVMerge, watching in MPC. VobSub is enabled by default. Is there any way so that the subs are off by default?

[Tuning]

There is an option in Vobsub, general tab -> loading -> set donot load. That is it. it will not load again.:D

[Milkman Dan]

Well, I've been thinking about subtitle options for awhile now.

Namely, the default loaded state of the subs. On, or off.

If you like a dub of a particular anime, or movie, it should follow that the subs shouldn't be enabled by default.

Further, you should be able to "link" certain subtitle streams to certain audio tracks. For example, you could link a subtitle stream that consists only of translations of on screen text, instead of the full dialog, to a certain language track. This seems intuitive and necessary for full DVD reproduction.

I love Matroska and how far its gone as a container. This is a feature fleshing-out that applies to all subtitle formats though, text or picture, so I think it has broad appeal and should be implemented.

[plink plink]

[RedDwarf69]

Some months have passed...
Are the two things Milkman Dan sayed possible now?

[Milkman Dan]

Originally posted by RedDwarf69
Some months have passed...
Are the two things Milkman Dan sayed possible now?

You can set the default playing track in mkvmerge. However, not ticking a checkbox for the default stream still loads the first stream in the list.

For example, if I have two audio streams, and choose not to make either default in the GUI, then when played, the resultant .mkv will play the first audio track in the stream list (the one with the lower ID, I assume).

However, there is still no provision for "linking" subtitles and audio streams together, a feature that while annoying, is hardly a deal breaker for the format. I would say that the lack of a good merge/cut utility, or feature in mkvmerge for appending different files, is sorely missing.

But then, I can't code it myself, so I should just shut up.

[zwahri]

For example, if I have two audio streams, and choose not to make either default in the GUI, then when played, the resultant .mkv will play the first audio track in the stream list (the one with the lower ID, I assume).OK, How about this: simply mux an empty subtitle track (or one displaying nothing or only for a very short time ..) into the .mkv (for example an self-made srt file). If you set this as default, or mux it as first stream no subs should be displayed :D . Shouldn't produce much overhead also.However, there is still no provision for "linking" subtitles and audio streams together, a feature that while annoying, is hardly a deal breaker for the format.
I don't think i'll ever 'miss' something like linking subs + audio - I like to choose ;)But then, I can't code it myself, so I should just shut up. Me too, so I'll just do that.

Just my 0.02€
Z

PS: I hope this doesn't sound too stupid, I didn't touch anything sub releated in about a half year :P

[RedDwarf69]

Link between subs + audio should be breakable, sure.
But an option that makes that everytime you select audio A, subs A (forced subs from a DVD) are selected automatically would be good. If after you want to change the subs (another language), you should be able to without the audio being modified.
You still can choose, but there is no need to look if a movie has forced subs before pressing 'play'.

About empty subs, probably is the most stupid idea I listened in years....I will try :)

[Nibor]

Originally posted by RedDwarf69
About empty subs, probably is the most stupid idea I listened in years....I will try :)
:D
I did this some time ago.
An empty SRT didn't work so I wrote something like "Please choose subtitles if you like and enjoy the movie!" ;)

Cheers!

[Milkman Dan]

Originally posted by zwahri

I don't think i'll ever 'miss' something like linking subs + audio - I like to choose ;)



Well, it wasn't my intention to indicate that you shouldn't be able to change tracks while viewing. But the behavior should be defaulted so that the author of the file chooses the defaults for that file.

Remember, this isn't primarily about distribution, if you take my meaning.

[zwahri]

Originally posted by Nibor
An empty SRT didn't work so I wrote something like "Please choose subtitles if you like and enjoy the movie!" ;)
Hmm... I'm pretty sure it works even without displaying someting:

1
00:0:0,000 --> 00:00:00,001
.

The 'code' above should be a valid SRT file - OK, it doesn't exactly display 'nothing', but even if the dot gets displayed it's only for 0.001 s which isn't even a single frame long - much too short to see it :P

As for linking streams together: Point taken.
There is exactly one possible use for that feature: a single release which is meant to be viewed in different countries (different languages of course ;) ) which needs hard-subs in some parts.
Please keep in mind that even most DVD's are released per-country - and I don't think dreaming of a world-wide released single file supporting all languages is really a good idea, because such a file would be a) way to big and b) the customer would have to choose between all those languages.
Side note: obviously, today's customers are afraid of choices (or to stupid for them?) - or why are there such messy laws against it around the world :p . SCNR, really :devil:
So I'm fine with linking streams together _if_ it gets implemented as long as I can still break it up :)

*runs and hides*,
Z

[Nibor]

Originally posted by zwahri
The 'code' above should be a valid SRT file - OK, it doesn't exactly display 'nothing', but even if the dot gets displayed it's only for 0.001 s which isn't even a single frame long - much too short to see it :P
IIRC I tried something similar but it didn't work :rolleyes:
And anyway, it's an evil hack!! :p ;)

- nibor -

[Atamido]

Originally posted by Nibor
I did this some time ago.
An empty SRT didn't work so I wrote something like "Please choose subtitles if you like and enjoy the movie!" ;) That is a pretty freaking clever idea. Smells of hack, but smooth and effective. I like it.

[zwahri]

I was curious and tried muxing avi + my dummy.srt (code posted above) and it works fine for me - dvobsub gets loaded and displays nothing when playing the resulting MKV.
Since I tried muxing with mmg/mkvmerge & vdubmod I'm pretty sure it'll work for other people too.
I think that's a good workaround for the "I don't want forced subtitles" problem, because it requires no changes to MKV and the possibility of generating forced subs for movies remains too.
The 'please choose subs' text also is a nice idea, at least as long there's no way to include some kind of menu into mkv - more often than not people just don't know about the features of MKV (or even OGM).
Maybe this 'solution' should show up in the FAQ ?

[Hiro2k]

That's some nice hackery. If you really wanted to display nothing you could use the ASCII code ALT+255 which is just a blank space ;)

[Milkman Dan]

Originally posted by zwahri


As for linking streams together: Point taken.
There is exactly one possible use for that feature: a single release which is meant to be viewed in different countries



I can think of another, but it is mostly of concern to anime fans.

When viewing a disc in English, often times there are pieces of translated oscreen text in the DVD.

With linked subs and audio, the appropriate subs could be loaded when English is the choosen language, as opposed to Japanese.

After all, this is exactly the system that DVD uses. All I'm saying is that Matroska should emulate it, or at least have the capability to.

But again, remember that distributing files is not the stated primary goal of Matroska. When I make most of my files, it isn't my intention to share them on the internet. So in the end, I don't care how my settings effect anyone other than me.

Just to clairify my position a bit.

[Hiro2k]

I do alot of Anime too Milkman Dan, so no need to explain yourself. It would be nice if when I selected English as my default audio for the forced subtitles to show up. And conversely if I slected Jappanese it would be cool if it also displayed the full subtitles in english or whatever language you have.

So it would be a neat feature for dual audio DVD's.

[zwahri]

Originally posted by Hiro2k
That's some nice hackery. If you really wanted to display nothing you could use the ASCII code ALT+255 which is just a blank space ;)
Heh, but try posting that as code :p Anyway, I'm not sure how the muxing tools (AFAIK srt is converted to utf-8 in MKV, and I don't know how that differs from plain ASCII - if it's only a file header it's fine :P) or dvobsub would take that one, but maybe I'll give it a try sometime.