PAL region 2 disc I'd like to "backup" to NTSC region 1 - What do I do?

[tluxon]

Some time ago I bought a DVD off of eBay that turned out would only play on my region reset PC DVD player. Now that I finally have a burner I thought I would just rip it and burn it. After trying various combinations of ripping and burning to no avail, I decided to take a look at one of the VOBs with VirtualDub-MPEG2. Much to my dismay I see that it has a framesize of 720x576 and framerate of 25fps.

I'm assuming that the process will require more than simple re-encoding which is already lossy and time consuming. Is it less trouble to just buy a region 1 version of this DVD or is there some straightforward way to convert this to a usable (NTSC region 1) disc?

Thanks,

Tim

[tluxon]

Okay, I'm assuming there is no straightforward way to do this, but I'd like to make sure I understand what needs to happen and the steps required to do it.

For background, almost a year ago I had taken the above mentioned DVD and converted some selected chapters out of it to SVCD using DVD2SVCD (with CCE 2.50 encoding), and the results were fantastic. I know DVD2SVCD uses a number of independent programs, but it was still pretty much a one stop setup to roll the whole process. Is there anything like that to go from PAL -> DVD? Can DVD2SVCD be used for this?

Please correct me where I'm wrong, but manually, I expect that the following things must be done:

1) The VOBs have to be split out into their various program stream(s). Is DVtool one of the best ways to do this? Or is this something that simply using DVD2AVI will accomplish?

2) The audio must be demuxed out of each program stream and its framerate converted from 25 fps to either 23.97 or 29.97 fps (whichever matches the target framerate of the video) using a tool like BeSweet.

3) Each 720x576 video must be resized to 720x480 (or one of the NTSC framesizes). At the same time I have to get the framerate of 25 fps converted to 29.97 fps or 23.97 fps with 3:2 pulldown.

4) I can then simply pull each video and its respective audio stream into my favorite DVD authoring program and prepare for burn - correct?

Thanks,

Tim

[Kedirekin]

I'm not an expert, but no one else seems to be offering up any advice.

I think what you are attempting is pretty advanced, and will be a lot of work, but it can be done. [Aside: As it is so advanced, it might be appropriate to move this thread to either of the authoring forums.]

For separating the assets, you might also want to check out stream processing in DVDDecrypter. I believe that is what DIF4U does to isolate the assets. In fact, I would recommend using DIF4U to separate all the assets, since that is what I think It Does Fast 4 U.

You will need to adjust the audio duration to match the new video durations (audio doesn't have a framerate, but you have the right idea there). I think BeSweet is the correct tool for this, but I'm not completely sure.

You're right again about the resizing. If I'm not mistaken, all the streams will need to be changed from 25 fps to 23.976 fps, after which you'll need to apply 3:2 pulldown. Going directly from 25 fps to 29.97 fps would result in noticeably speeded up playback (and chip-munky sound). The only complication I see is in the resizing. If any of the video is pure-interlaced, there is no way to get 480 interlaced scan lines from the 576 scan lines that are already there. Your only option is probably to deinterlace, which can introduce artifacts (ghosting) of its own.

If you're satisfied to discard the original menus (and perhaps any advanced features of the original DVD, like multi-angles or button-over video), you can author all the remade assets into a new DVD and burn it. If you want to keep (or recreate) the original menus (or advanced features), then your favorite authoring software may not be up to it. You may need to use something more powerfull, like Scenarist.

Now that I've said all that, you might want to just buy the NTSC version of the DVD. You won't learn as much, but you'll save yourself hundreds of dollars worth of personal time. You can always sell the PAL version on e-bay to defray the cost of the NTSC version.

[tluxon]

Well, that sounds like a lot more work than I really want to put into it right now. I've got a lot of other things going on that I need to stay on top of.

Unfortunately, the movie in question is the Region 1, Widescreen, DD5.1 version of Addicted to Love, which is really tough to find right now. It seems that most of the Region 1 versions I've found are either full screen, letterboxed, or non-5.1 versions. There is a new release due 2/3/2004, so maybe I'll wait for that.

Cheers,

Tim

[alexM]

Why does it have to be NTSC? I may be mistaken but I thought that for at least the last 10 years all decoder chips used in DVD players or TV sets are capable of interpreting correctly NTSC and PAL signals. I used to have one of the first region 1 Panasonic players and it had no problem with PAL DVDs (after having been adapted for zones 1 & 2).

[tluxon]

You have to shop carefully to find a standalone DVD player that will play both PAL and NTSC. For a little more than $100, most standard players can be hacked to be region free and have PAL/NTSC capability. When I bought my players, PAL was not a priority, and the only way I can currently play PAL and/or non-Region 1 is with my PCs.

[Kedirekin]

Just saw this in the DVD Authoring Forum. Thought you might want to take a look if you haven't already.

Best way to convert PAL DVD -> NTSC DVD (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65879)

[alexM]

Perhaps you should look for one of those super-cheap no-name players that are sold under various names. Most of the time they come with cheap do-everything chips that play NTSC, PAL, VCD, MP3, JPEG, CD-R/RW, DVD-R/RW and have just a software region code that you can change with the remote control. That's because usually the same device is sold world-wide. I have bought one of these as a backup player for about EUR 100,- and it even converts PAL to NTSC and vice-versa. Picture quality is much better than I expected, only the remote control is crap.

[corf]

AlexM,

I think the TV's in the US simply can't play PAL resolutions, so even if his DVD player can accept PAL his TV won't.

Fortunately in Europe we are able to use pretty much what we like.

[tluxon]

I just ordered the Aspire AD-1100 from Buy.com for $30 after rebate and it says it does PAL/NTSC conversion. We'll see how it does.

Thanks,

Tim

[Edit] - oops, I see it says it's PAL/NTSC compatible, not that it does the conversion. I guess I'm going to be out of luck, then, unless our Mits WS-55819 can display PAL. Anybody know?

[rpboy]

Originally posted by tluxon
oops, I see it says it's PAL/NTSC compatible, not that it does the conversion. I guess I'm going to be out of luck, then, unless our Mits WS-55819 can display PAL. Anybody know?

Its doubtful your TV will play PAL. TVs that support both NTSC and PAL are very rare in the US, and usually come at a price premium.

I seem to recall reading that the Aspire model did convert PAL to NTSC, just not "correctly" (which I believe was anamorphic PAL transfers were stretched slightly in the conversion to NTSC).

Just set it to output NTSC in the Setup menu, do the region free hack so that it will accept your foreign DVD, and try playing it. You'll know pretty quickly if it converts PAL to NTSC or not. Unless you were thinking of returning it instead of opening it. then that wouldn't work. :)

[tluxon]

I definitely plan to keep it, because a couple guys have claimed that it plays raw ReplayTV mpegs right off a data DVD+-RW without authoring. If it pipes NTSC from PAL on the fly, that's just gravy :). Of course, it would also be nice if the hack for region free works as well.

Tim

[Kedirekin]

Please do let us know if it does convert PAL to NTSC, and if so what the conversion looks like (how good it is). I think it'll spark some theoretical discussion if nothing else.

I do wonder how you can take 576 scan lines and put them into 480. It seems like interlaced footage would be thouroughly messed up.

[alexM]

The EUR 100,- player I have is a H&B model. You can set it up for NTSC, PAL or MULTI output. In the first case it converts everything to NTSC, 2nd case output is always PAL and MULTI does no conversion.
Conversion is so good that my recorder succeeds in recording everything the player outputs. It is not perfect, though: a few weeks ago while watching a movie after about 10 minutes I thought there was something odd about the picture. It was not bad something with rapid movements was somehow wrong if you looked really carefully. Well, I had by mistake left it on NTSC instead PAL output, but it had taken me some time to notice it.
My daughter by the way has a Memorex player, same price range, and it also outputs (and converts) PAL and NTSC.
You'd be surprised how many TV sets use a standard video chip and thus accept PAL and NTSC. Very often the manufacturer does not mention this. I have a 8 year old portable spare TV set, the ceapest one I could find at the time. To my surprise it can play PAL and NTSC.