How to come from DV to SVCD?

[Kenneth]

Hi Yes I am a New to this but please bear with me.

I have invested in a Sony Camcorder DCR-TRV33E and yes it make realy nice pictures also in real 16:9 (nice when you have 16:9 tv). Well I have captured some video (16:9) and now like to make as near as possible DVD without using DVD (everything costs money) so how do I do that?

Have so fare tryed out the DVD2SVCD and also tryed using Studio8 but nothing helps

Anyone please help

cheers

Kenneth

[vidiot]

Originally posted by Kenneth

Have so fare tryed out the DVD2SVCD and also tryed using Studio8 but nothing helps


Hi Kenneth,

could you please more precise about your problem?
Otherwise you´re doing best with DVD2SVCD from my experience.

I can only guess that your problem is the AR (aspect ratio)?
A quick search in the forum could be helpful...

Harald

[Kenneth]

My problem is - I have don a avi file using Studio 8.1 and thats very fine, but I like to make a SVCD. I tryed use Studio8 but it is not good (screen fliker sometimes) and I get mosaik patterns also.

So I like to use Studio 8 to make the video look good then use another tool to make the files (ex. bin MPEG2 or so) to do the SVCD (in the higest quality as possible) I don care that an CD only can contain like 15 min. or so just it look as sharp as possible!!!

Hope it clearify it a little

Cheers Kenneth

[bb]

Welcome to the forum, Kenneth.

There are several options to create SVCDs from DV, but regarding the quality it's always a compromise. So you have to try to make the best quality you can get, but it won't be as good as DVD. For your purpose you should choose the maximum bitrate SVCD allows for, and an audio bitrate you can live with. E.g. you could choose video @ 2560 kbps, audio @ 192 kbps. You'll get about 35 min on a single SVCD. You may also consider to create an XSVCD, which is an SVCD outside the standard. You can use higher bitrates, e.g. 4000 kbps, to get good quality, but not all standalones will play it.

As far as I know your camcorder doesn't provide a progressive scan option, so your DV is interlaced. There are different opionions on whether to deinterlace or not. I would deinterlace, because MPEG-2 encoders need more bitrate for the same quality in interlaced mode. You may want to try AviSynth and FieldDeinterlace(blend=false) or KernelDeint for the deinterlacing, and encode in progressive mode. Be careful about the field order: DV is bottom field first (= bff, or field B).

Which encoder do you prefer?

bb

[vidiot]

Originally posted by Kenneth
My problem is - I have don a avi file using Studio 8.1 and thats very fine, but I like to make a SVCD. I tryed use Studio8 but it is not good (screen fliker sometimes) and I get mosaik patterns also.

Might be the encoder in Studio that does this, but you have to know that DV data is very "sharp" and so many encoding "engines" have their problems to serve you with a good quality video (without macroblocks = mosaic patterns) and so on.



So I like to use Studio 8 to make the video look good then use another tool to make the files (ex. bin MPEG2 or so) to do the SVCD (in the higest quality as possible) I don care that an CD only can contain like 15 min. or so just it look as sharp as possible!!!

Hope it clearify it a little

Cheers Kenneth [/B]

My suggestion: Go with TMPenc as encoder and VCDeasy for authoring
(menu + chapters) if you like.
Regarding the bitrate: My player is capable of playing videos with 5000 kbit/s + 224 kbit audio -> you have to test yours, as bb mentioned above.
I did encode my video and audio with DVD settings - thus making a XSVCD with one advantage in mind - since I own a DVD burner I don´t have to reencode all stuff for making it compatible.

The only pitfall is encoding interlaced the right way -
welcome to the horror of interlaced encodings:D.
This is one reason to visit this forum...

IMHO it´s good to go for quality, but keep in mind that in most cases people are interested in WHAT they see and quality is only the glaze on top of the cake...

Harald

[Kenneth]

Hey

Thanks for the good infomation - I like the idear on the XSVCD, and I will like to try it out. The thing about my camcorder doing progressive scan or not (well I can´t quit follow) please explain if you can what it means!.

And how do I get from the AVI I have right now using my Studio 8. Is both AviSynth and KernelDeint making the job? it the output an bin file that I burn as an Image!

Please bear with me still newbie to all the good stuff!!!

Kenneth

[vidiot]

Originally posted by Kenneth

Please bear with me still newbie to all the good stuff!!!


So am I!
Interlacing means your TV Set shows you 2 halfpicture
~ 60 times/second. Thats why you have a FIELDORDER -> the encoder has to know (TMPenc "guesses" that) what fieldorder your video is.

You don´t have to interlace when encoding your content for television sets, because both - camcorder and tv- work the same way.
Deinterlacing does always degrade your quality regarding detail ans sharpness.
(please excuse me trying to explain something difficult with this big lack knowledge in technic and language.)
Your camcorder records in fields, if not you´re lucky - that means the camera took 60 halfpictures/s, otherwise with a PROGRESSIVE camcorder it would record ~ 30 (29,97) pictures (or frames) per second.

The only thing that I can tell you at this stage:
Read as much of the guides as you can and try what you read yourself.

Have fun
Harald

[sh03z]

I just recently got a new Vid Card...

it captures at 720x480...

but anyway, I would agree with Vidiot

when you deinterlace, you lose quality cause your cutting some of the frames out...

what I do, even though it takes up so much more space, is uncheck progressive frames with CCE SP, and encode as usuall

it gets rid of lose pesky lines, and looks like the original


works great for me, although I still burn them to SVCD, so I can't fit much on a single CDR...

[bb]

Originally posted by sh03z
when you deinterlace, you lose quality cause your cutting some of the frames out...
Deinterlacing does not cut out any frames. It merely interpolates or blends pixels from consecutive fields. Some (simple minded) deinterlacers blend or interpolate everything, others (more sophisticated, like FieldDeinterlace or KernelDeint) blend / interpolate moving pixels only.

bb

[sh03z]

ok, didn't know that BB, thanks

when I learned about de-interlacing, there was only TMPeg, or atleast I had never used avisynth, or those two plugins you were talking about...

that's cool though, it makes sense to only de-interlace moving frames, because that's when it looks blocky and shit...

good stuff, good stuff

[Kenneth]

Hey

Just want to say thanks for all the good idears - have succeed making 1 working XSVCD with 5000 kb/sec using TMPenc as encoder and VCDeasy for authoring was working great (my little move for 21 sec.) almost looking as good as was it comming from tape.

Then I wanted to make a bigger stream. And that was not good I can´t get TMPenc to read the AVI file - sayes it not good (will finde the exact error later). Cant remember to have the avi file filtered or anything to make TMPenc be able to read it (well maybe its the FIELDORDER)!!! I try and see

But I have the feeling beeing on track.

Cheers

Kenneth

[sh03z]

Yep, capturing to AVI is the best way to go

[vidiot]

Originally posted by sh03z
In my experiences, atleast, converting avi to mpeg2 is always a bitch and doesn't look as good as just encoding directly from your video stream.

:devil: Sh03z, what about reading stuff in the capture forum first,
before made suggestions like that?

Simple said: Some people recording nearly uncompressed avis (Codec Huffyuv) with up to 13 Mbyte/s. (780 Mbyte/min)
You do with 5000kbit/s (~625 kbyte or ~0,6Mbyte/s) with CBR one pass encoding. Don´t expect miracles from that. Be glad if that looks good.
But take my word:
With comparable sources everyone with *.avi capturing and n-pass encoding will beat your quality with 60% of the bitrate.
And you´ll keep the ability to filter your (uncompressed) source.

Direct MPEG Capturing is good when you have a very clean source
(satelite or cable) - but with digital satelite or cable you could even "copy" the stream directly with a digital card....

nuff said...

[sh03z]

well....shhhh

I can't capture directly to avi with my setup...
for some capture devices, the drivers are set up so that only the software that they give you will work with the device...there are no generic drivers for my device...

maybe I should of kept my suggestion to myself, but that's the only way I get decent results...

I just captured to MPEG2 @ 65000 kbps, then I encoded with a 4 pass in CCE SP, like you said, and ya...I have to admit I was wrong about the CBR, but on any note I'm getting bad ass results with my setup now.


peace

[Kenneth]

Just to add a comment!

I have tryed recording directly to Mpeg using Studio8 with both 5000 and 6000 kbsec. without any luck. The troubles startes when I want to burn using the VCDeasy, it reads the mpeg and comes out and claim there is error in a block. Can it bee fixed? or do any of you have any clue what goes wrong!. Ofcouse I would like to go directly to MPEG, but I am not sure what is best: DV -> AVI -> MPEG or DV -> MPEG.

Cheers

Kenneth

[bb]

If you want best possible result, the way to go is:

1. Capture the DV from your camcorder to PC in DV format. This step is lossless, as the DV stream is merely copied to the HDD through firewire. It is not recommended to capture directly to MPEG-2, if you can avoid it, because this would compromise quality.

2. Use your favourite editing software and edit your video (and the audio, too), i.e. cut out unwanted scenes, add scene transitions, etc.

3.a) If you don't want to filter the video (which I would not recommend), you may be pleased with the quality of your editing software's integrated MPEG-2 encoder. This is usually the faster way (but there are awfully slow integrated encoders out there, too).

3.b) Save your edited video as DV AVI (marginal loss, not visible) or as Huffyuv compressed AVI (lossless). Use this AVI as the source in an AviSynth script (either AviSource or DirectShowSource, depending on which DV decoder you'd like to use: AviSource = your VfW DV codec, DirectShowSource = M$'s DirectShow DV filter). You may add some advanced filtering here, like noise reduction (e.g. Convolution3D), color enhancement, etc. Then feed the AVS script into your MPEG-2 encoder. To meet a desired filesize, use VBR encoding.

bb

[Kenneth]

Hi bb

I tryed as you suggested but but but

I have don the AVI file and its finish and looking good (using studio 8) doing a last recording from camcorder DV to AVI-file (with all the finish on).

I then try load the file into TMPGEnc but it says cannot open or unsupported :confused:

Have the tryed making an mpeg using avi2mpg2 but it dosent look too good is hacking a lot (but this mpeg can TMPGEnc load fine :)

When I tryed using Cinema Craft Encoder SP I got "Couldn´t find appopriate video codec for 'dvsd'" (where do I get that - have bee looking a little on the download arear without finding anything.

And I havent much clue on using the AviSynth with script (Cant afford to put lot of time into it)

Please what do I do wrong!

Kenneth

[vidiot]

Kenneth,

install Avisynth,

then write a text file (ending *.avs):

DirectShowSource("C:\Yourvideofile.avi")

(Path and name should match
to your video file)


Thats all!
Try to load that in VirtualDub - if it works TMPenc should work, too.
just load the *.avs (name it "kenneth_test.avs" ;) instaed of an *.avi.

On the other hand you could try to get a DV Codec for VfW (Video for Windows) The names that you have to look for are CANOPUS DV Codec or Panasonic DV Codec.
The later works as VfW and DirectShow (DS) Codec. But you´ve to edit your system.ini every time (or was it the win.ini?).:rolleyes:

I do suggest using Virtualdubmod instaed of the "plain" Vdub!
Especially when it comes to scripting, because of the build-in script editor!

Report if it works for you...

[Kenneth]

Hi

I tryed the AVISynth and yes it worked, have now a clear picture on my DVD player and it looks really good only when I move focus a lot in picture the picture slows down a little (using 5000kb/sec and 224 on audio). Any know what to set in TPMGEnc´s Rate Control Mode to? it can be set to like constant bitrate or quality what is best!!

Still also like to know for what to use the Cinema Craft Encoder SP - have tryed also to put the scripted avi in Cinema and yes it also proccessed but output is like - *.mpa *.mpv to use where ? is it better or?

And thanks for all the very helpfull tips - things this is a great place to read and learn a lot

Cheers

Kenneth

[sh03z]

I am almost sure I am right about the following, although Kenneth I don't want to steer you off the right track:

CCE is faster, and better than TMPeg.

For best reults do a ES multipass VBR
That way you only process the video.

It is better to process the audio with headach3 or BeSweet.

That way you can be sure the audio is in sync.

Afterwards, you will have only a mpv (video file) from CCE.
To view it, you can just rename it to mpg, then open it with your DVD player. After you are done viewing it, rename it back to mpv.

To join the video (mpv) and audio (mpa or mp2) file together you use bbMPEG. It's called multiplexing.

[Kenneth]

Thanks for fast reply - have the bbMPEG installed, just dident know what to use it fore (besides the DVD2SVCD use it)

Will try using cimema and see it I have any difference (besides the filesize ;O)

I bee back

Kenneth

[Kenneth]

Just like to hear how do I come from the *.mpv + (*.mpa -> *.mp2) made by studio and besweet to *.mpg using bbMPEG to me it seems to be another converter making just MPEG (not good ones) cant see how to use it for combining the 2 files video and audio to mpeg. Anyone please explain, what am I missing!!!

Kenneth

[sh03z]

open up avi2mpg2.exe

click on load, cancel (to prevent crashing)

click on start encoding,

click on settings,

go to INPUT AND OUTPUT FILES, find your audio and video file,

go to PROGRAM STREAM SETTINGS, select SVCD,

click ok

and then start...

[bb]

Originally posted by Kenneth
Just like to hear how do I come from the *.mpv + (*.mpa -> *.mp2) made by studio and besweet to *.mpg using bbMPEG to me it seems to be another converter making just MPEG (not good ones) cant see how to use it for combining the 2 files video and audio to mpeg. Anyone please explain, what am I missing!!!
Although muxing is the most interesting part of bbMPEG, it's hidden quite well:

1. After starting AVI2MPG2.EXE, click on "Start Encoding" (yes, although you don't want to encode!).

1. a) If the program crashes, start it again, but click on the "Load" button in the upper left to open a file open dialog, then cancel it again. This causes the weird bug to disappear - don't ask me why...

2. Click on "Settings".

3. "Program Stream Settings" tab: Select SVCD.

4. "Input and Output files" tab: "Open PS" for your target MPG file, "Open VS" for your elementary video stream, "Open AS1" for your MP2 audio.

5. "General Settings" tab: Make sure you fill out this tab as the last action before muxing, else the settings here will be lost...
Make sure "Multiplex video" and "Multiplex audio" are selected. If you want to split automatically after reaching CD size, enter a split value in the "Max size (MB)" field. A safe value for 700 MB CDs is 795 (yes, I know that 795 > 700, but SVCDs don't write error correction to the disc, so you can store almost 800 MB video on a 700 MB CD).

Hope that helps.

bb

Edit: looks like sh03z was faster (but my info is more detailed :p )

[Kenneth]

Yeeehhaaa - yes I am don have made an mpeg using cinema craft also - thanks very mutch. Found also out that you have to set the Forced mux rate (in 50 bytes/sec units) to 0 so it calculate itself - gives me the best result but thats on the computer - showing it on my DVD it still hacks a little - think its because the stream rate 6.000 is to high (like to have at max 5000) cant see where to keep it down!!!

By the way it was the AVI2MPEG2_VFW and not AVI2MPEG2 but if found the right one ;O)

Cheers

Kenneth

[Kenneth]

Found where to get it down to 5000 - will make another try ;O) the Cinema Craft have the settings havent seen them in the first place..

Kenneth

[sh03z]

hey Kenneth, I think the reason your having problems with all this stuff, is your not reading the Guides enough.

Go back and read the SVCD guides by doom9, they are excellent.

Anyways, the reason it hacks (jerks?) in your DVD player is because it is still 23.976 fps, and not the SVCD standard of 29.97...

You need to do a pulldown before you multiplex.

It's a lot more fun when you know what your doing, so go back and read up first.

[Kenneth]

Thanks - but I have allready been on to the guides, but not all of them is written for total newbies (but I am thanks to all of you I am not that anymore) have now the basic skills I belive.

And just to clearify - my DV stream is with 25 fps and not 23 nor 29. Have tryed the pulldown without any luck, so I keep searching on that one.

Have just tryed making 20 min stream and have no a file of 4.5 GB - and yes my computer is very busy converting cool:

Kenneth:

[bb]

Originally posted by Kenneth
And just to clearify - my DV stream is with 25 fps and not 23 nor 29. Have tryed the pulldown without any luck, so I keep searching on that one.
So it must be a PAL camcorder. For PAL sources there's no need for a real pulldown. To use pulldown.exe makes sense only if you want to deal with field order this way.

bb

[Kenneth]

Thanks bb for clearifying that...

Kenneth