[Demo] XviD HDTV ... ;-) [Archive]

Nibor

4th December 2003, 20:52

Thanks communist!

Well I could download the new file, so no need to put up a mirror this time ;)

Wow!!! It's like "Hey son, why don't you go out to play? - I don't want to, the TV has a higher resolution than the reality!!" :p :D

Sagittaire, from which source did you encode these files?

4th December 2003, 21:06

Kinda looks like this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51315&highlight=sharro). Sad thing Sharro removed the file, cause I can't host it anywhere (all 3 of my hosts have bandwidth limits that don't allow many users downloading a 100MB file).

Tommy Carrot

4th December 2003, 22:57

Excellent quality, even the 2.5 Mbps clip has much better quality than most DVDs at 6 Mbps, so it's not true that xvid/mpeg4 is not suited for HDTV content.

ciper

5th December 2003, 01:58

That is a beauty .. 1280 at 2.5 Mb i was expecting not very good quality .. but that is way better than any DVD i ever saw, the image is so clean and so sharp .. and at 2.5 Mb, runs smooth in my duron 1.3. You can put more than 4 hours in a DVD (4.7 Gb) with that quality, plus an AC3 track at 448Kbits

OH MY GOD THAT ROCKS ;D !!!!

Human_USB

5th December 2003, 02:25

Post a How-To please!!!! I would love to learn how you did this.

Prettz

5th December 2003, 03:32

Wow. Just wow.

I cant even imagine what it would look like with all quant 2's...

Didée

5th December 2003, 09:28

@ Prettz:

>> [i]I cant even imagine what it would look like with all quant 2's...

I'm just about to finish my "HDTV" version of LOTR FOTR SEE this week:
- 1280x528 (960x528 anamorph)
- SharpResized @ 3.5x Supersampling
- Very carefully denoised (flux(1,-1) before / FaeryDust(1)+Anti-blocking after resize)
- bitrate ~2700 kbps
- Average quant equals ~2.5 (quant=4 with my 'SixOfNine' custom matrix)
- quantizers are distributed 'by hand' throughout the whole movie ...

The anamorphic resolution gets re-scaled through ffdshow / lanczosresize @ sharpen 1.0.

Guess how it looks ... incredible :D

(In case someone's interested in hosting some samples of that, PM me.)

- Didée

Sagittaire

5th December 2003, 13:19

To make HDTV encoding you must have HDTV sources files size:
http://windowsmedia.com/9series/DemoCenter/VideoQuality.asp?page=6&lookup=VideoQuality

I think a very large OverResize (720*576@1280*720 for exemple) isn't a very good solution ... but I want test ...

Wilbert

6th December 2003, 00:06

Second demo (matrix 1920x1088):

http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/matrix_1920x1088_16x9_trellis_VHQ4.avi

Settings:
Ciao (XviD-1.0-Beta2-05122003)
HDTV profile
VHQ4
trellis
bitrate ~4000 kbps
bit/(pixel*fps) = 0.08 ... ;-)

encoding speed was 1-2 fps on my Athlon 3000+ :)

Sagittaire

6th December 2003, 00:11

SharpOverResize 720*576@1280*720 done very surprised result ...

http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/XviD-HDTV.rar

6th December 2003, 02:06

Anyone wanna host my old sample again? :D

Hylas

6th December 2003, 10:28

Originally posted by Didée

I'm just about to finish my "HDTV" version of LOTR FOTR SEE this week:
- 1280x528 (960x528 anamorph)
- SharpResized @ 3.5x Supersampling

I don't understand. What did you use as source, an ordinary DVD? And this increases the quality? :confused:

CruNcher

6th December 2003, 11:58

- quantizers are distributed 'by hand' throughout the whole movie ...

:D and i thought im crazy :D

Didée

6th December 2003, 20:29

Originally posted by CruNcher
:D and i thought im crazy :D
No no, the crazy man is not you and not me. The crazy man is the one saying "Why waste a day on encoding if you can waste a whole month!" ;)

Seriously and shortly: It wasn't that hard. A 2% comp. test showed it'd run fine out with av.quant = 4. So I set it up chapter by chapter, with a base of q4, assigning q3 to problematic still and dark scenes, and q5 to the very hungry ones, and q2 for the few very hard scenes. (All with a cust.matrix, divide those q's by 1.5 for an equivalent 'normal' quant.)
Setting up three or for chapters every evening, was a nice hobby for two weeks now. All's done by now, some short re-encodings, a li'l audio, and then finally the great fun of puzzling everything together - yeah!

@ Hylas:
Yes, that increases quality. Though you cannot invent detail out of thin air, it is quite possible to enhance the perceived sharpness by supersampled xsharpen - that is totally different from traditional sharpening. Traditional sharpening is not even sharpening at all - just per-pixel contrast enhancement, where the 'real sharpness' remains completely untouched (!).

- Didée

7th December 2003, 00:17

Originally posted by Didée
No no, the crazy man is not you and not me. The crazy man is the one saying "Why waste a day on encoding if you can waste a whole month!" ;)
I feel honored :o.

Tommy Carrot

9th December 2003, 21:10

Originally posted by Wilbert
Second demo (matrix 1920x1088):

http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/matrix_1920x1088_16x9_trellis_VHQ4.avi

Settings:
Ciao (XviD-1.0-Beta2-05122003)
HDTV profile
VHQ4
trellis
bitrate ~4000 kbps
bit/(pixel*fps) = 0.08 ... ;-)

encoding speed was 1-2 fps on my Athlon 3000+ :)

Did you upsample this from DVD, or it is from real 1920*1088 source? Just because the quality isn't really better than a normal DVD, although this is a good CPU-test. You've got quite fast computer if you can play it back flawlessly. I couldn't... :D

Wilbert

10th December 2003, 10:46

Did you upsample this from DVD, or it is from real 1920*1088 source? Just because the quality isn't really better than a normal DVD, although this is a good CPU-test.
Yeah, to be honest, I don't know. I got those hdtv samples from:

http://206.159.116.24/public.htm

and he captures them from satellite. If they are upsampled, it is done by the broadcaster or some compagny. I guess broadcasters can't do that themselves?

You've got quite fast computer if you can play it back flawlessly. I couldn't... :D
Yes, I could! Btw, what processor do you have?

Tommy Carrot

10th December 2003, 12:30

Originally posted by Wilbert

Btw, what processor do you have?

I've tried it on my athlon 1700+, and on a p4 2000. Ok, they are not the latest and greatest, but I saw only slide-show on them. The smaller HDTV samples are no problem though.

Nibor

10th December 2003, 21:04

Originally posted by Tommy Carrot
I've tried it on my athlon 1700+, and on a p4 2000.
Strange... I've got a P4 2 GHz Mobile and can play back the matrix sample flawlessly on a screen resolution of 1600x1200.. (though, the processor works at 90% :D)
I used ffdshow to decode, what decoder did you use?

Tommy Carrot

10th December 2003, 22:42

Originally posted by Nibor
Strange... I've got a P4 2 GHz Mobile and can play back the matrix sample flawlessly on a screen resolution of 1600x1200.. (though, the processor works at 90% :D)
I used ffdshow to decode, what decoder did you use?

ffdshow too. The playback is almost good on the p4, but still sometimes it's frozen for a few secs.

MfA

10th December 2003, 22:51

Traditional sharpening is not even sharpening at all - just per-pixel contrast enhancement, where the 'real sharpness' remains completely untouched (!).

If it looks sharper it is sharper :)

10th December 2003, 23:25

Originally posted by MfA
If it looks sharper it is sharper :)
Good point :D. But we don't want halos, do we ;).

Sharro

11th December 2003, 12:07

Originally posted by mf
Kinda looks like this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51315&highlight=sharro). Sad thing Sharro removed the file, ...

Unfortunately MF it was not me...it was my isp when they reinstalled their ftp servers....

I can put it up again but I don't have the source anymore.

Take care.

Sharro

Tuning

11th December 2003, 12:36

Inspired by this thread i have a question, How exhautive is DivX/XviD/divx 3.11/3ivX/Real/Quicktime/vp6 decoding on these high resolution.

For eg: i transcoded @ HDTV resolution of Sagittaire attack of clones clip in to realvideo. But I could not play it without freezing frames. On the same time, DivX and XviD of this clip at these resolution can be played flawlessly. Used MPC for playback.

So how much these codecs use CPU at the time of decoding. One more Q: If I use FFDshow for MPEG-4 contents do the cpu usage will be same ?

Thanks.

11th December 2003, 13:06

Originally posted by Sharro
Unfortunately MF it was not me...it was my isp when they reinstalled their ftp servers....

I can put it up again but I don't have the source anymore.

Take care.

Sharro
I still have the source :D. Got an ftp ? ;)

Teegedeck

11th December 2003, 14:07

Originally posted by Tommy Carrot
Did you upsample this from DVD, or it is from real 1920*1088 source? Just because the quality isn't really better than a normal DVD, although this is a good CPU-test.

Gotta say, this is pretty much what I think about this, too. The effective resolution is probably lower than HDTV (I guess trbarry has some experience with the effective resolution of HDTV, so one could ask him for a pro's opinion) and by filtering you reduce it even more. It makes more sense using anamorphic DVDs for testing than this.

The resizing and filtering that produces the most detailed picture is no resizing and filtering (and instead using a high-bitrate matrix).

'scuse me for being a spoilsport...:rolleyes:

StoneRoses

11th December 2003, 14:10

Originally posted by Didée
- SharpResized @ 3.5x Supersampling

Originally posted by Sagittaire
SharpOverResize 720*576@1280*720 done very surprised result ...

Somebody please explain me a bit more about sharp resize and supersampling, and please post example avs script that you used for producing HD resolution video from DVD source.

- What is your recomended sharpen filter?
- What is your recomended resize filter?

Thanks.

Didée

11th December 2003, 15:24

>here. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60039)<

CruNcher

11th December 2003, 17:10

http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/phagain/hdtv.png

was recorded with a HDcam from Sony progressive in motion it looks much more impressive but i have not enough space to host this :(

11th December 2003, 17:19

Originally posted by CruNcher
http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/phagain/hdtv.png

was recorded with a HDcam from Sony progressive in motion it looks much more impressive but i have not enough space to host this :(
Somebody donate me one of those :eek: :eek:!

StoneRoses

12th December 2003, 04:58

Didée,
Thank you for pointing me to mf's thread. Could you post your avs script that you use for creating HD version of LOTR? I think I will learn a lot from your script.

mf,
Your script did amazing job. Thanks :)

avih

12th December 2003, 13:01

congrats for the original clip. indeed a quality encoding.
on duron 800 (nvidia FX5600ultra), it plays flawlessly using mplayer (dev-cvs-2003-10-03) or ffdshow. xdiv (with or without ffdshow passthrough) is JUST below perfect.

from closely examining the clip, it seems to me as it has been at least resized, probably upsampled (edges not sharp enough in the small prints final credits, regarding the clip resolution).

nevertheless, very nice indeed ;)

cheers
avih

dbzgundam

12th December 2003, 18:01

Originally posted by Sagittaire
XviD Devapi4 HDTV With quant 4 for I and Pframe and quant 5 for Bframe. bit/pixel*fps = 0.11 ... ;-) [/B]

Is that Minimum or Max.?

Tommy Carrot

12th December 2003, 21:06

Originally posted by dbzgundam
Is that Minimum or Max.?

I suppose those are fixed quantizers.

12th December 2003, 21:10

Originally posted by Tommy Carrot
I suppose those are fixed quantizers.
Meaning both min AND max :D.

dbzgundam

13th December 2003, 22:28

Ok, I've ripped my Godzilla 2000 R1 DVD and made it HDTV (1128x480, no 16x9 Letterboxes) resolution. The quality is astonishing, not what I had hoped though. There were blocks in numerous areas, they were very small and some people probably wouldn't notice it...But what bothered me most is that it surpassed the size of the original DVD! Now it even did this without audio, which really pissed me off. Here were my settings.

HDTV Profile
All I and P quants at 4 (min and max) B quants at 5
No chroma, Motion est at 5, VHQ1.
Two pass mode, one pass done only. (too lazy to wait another 7 hours)
I-Frame interval at 300
BVOPS at 2 max consec. Quant Ratio at 1.50, Offset at 0.50, Closed GOV.

I'm not sure if Qpel was enabled or not, because it was greyed out but checked off from a previous encode.

Done with SharpResize with SS @ 3.0 and Lanczos

I want to know what the hell caused it to be so large. (Aside from not doing the second pass...Or is that IT!?)

Tommy Carrot

13th December 2003, 23:25

Originally posted by dbzgundam
Ok, I've ripped my Godzilla 2000 R1 DVD and made it HDTV (1128x480, no 16x9 Letterboxes) resolution. The quality is astonishing, not what I had hoped though. There were blocks in numerous areas, they were very small and some people probably wouldn't notice it...But what bothered me most is that it surpassed the size of the original DVD! Now it even did this without audio, which really pissed me off. Here were my settings.

HDTV Profile
All I and P quants at 4 (min and max) B quants at 5
No chroma, Motion est at 5, VHQ1.
Two pass mode, one pass done only. (too lazy to wait another 7 hours)
I-Frame interval at 300
BVOPS at 2 max consec. Quant Ratio at 1.50, Offset at 0.50, Closed GOV.

I'm not sure if Qpel was enabled or not, because it was greyed out but checked off from a previous encode.

Done with SharpResize with SS @ 3.0 and Lanczos

I want to know what the hell caused it to be so large. (Aside from not doing the second pass...Or is that IT!?)

If you did it with the first pass of 2-pass mode, i think it's encoded with quant 2. So this is why it's so large. Select 1 pass mode and set the quantizer in the zone tab.

dbzgundam

15th December 2003, 18:11

OMG! It DID help alot! I took a clip out to see the size, and it was 200MB for 6mins! So I ripped the same chapters again from the DVD, went with the same filters, and went CBR. (I also let the max quantizer go up to 10) The quality was almost as astonishing as before! With the filesize at 89MB! An incredible difference too, so I guess doing 1 out of 2 passes rather than just single pass isn't quite good... Oh well, bitrate was around 2.5Mbps!

dbzgundam

16th December 2003, 18:08

sorry to double post, it seems the original must've had no bitrate control (probably going at 6mbps at times) and that's what caused the excessive filesize (3.26GB compared to 2.90 for DVD) The new encode uses CBR instead of 1 out of 2 pass mode. Bitrate is aimed around 2850kbps, and rarely even goes that high, the end encode is only 1.36GB with minimal quality loss!

Wilbert

20th December 2003, 20:36

I tried to reencode "Terminator 2 Extreme DVD Clip" (1080p Anamorphic, 6.8 Mbps, 1:42 min, 91 MB:

http://windowsmedia.com/9series/Dem...up=VideoQuality

I installed the WMV9 codec and used the following script:

directshowsource("f:\hdtv\terminator\1440x816_DVD_spec.wmv", fps=24, audio=false)

Settings:
Ciao (XviD-1.0-Beta2-05122003)
HDTV profile
VHQ4
trellis

The problem is that I even can't get decent quality at 5000kbps (2pass). Most frames are blocky. FFVFW and DivX5.02 were also not succesful at that bitrate. Did someone else tried to reencode this clip without resizing?

archimage

21st December 2003, 11:37

Originally posted by Wilbert
I tried to reencode "Terminator 2 Extreme DVD Clip" (1080p Anamorphic, 6.8 Mbps, 1:42 min, 91 MB:

Settings:
Ciao (XviD-1.0-Beta2-05122003)
HDTV profile
VHQ4
trellis

When I used hdtv profile it encoded all key or i frames .
I re-encoded the clip at 1080p x612 BilinearResize , VHQ4 Trellis MSP6 AQ GMC 1 B-Frame at quant 3 ~48mb . I thought that it ended up looking great .

PS no post-processing either

Wilbert

21st December 2003, 16:26

I followed your suggestion (but without "b-frames at quant 3") at 5000 kbps. I agree the result is much better. But there are still blocks present (frame 97 for example).

Sagittaire

22nd December 2003, 00:16

T2 trailer isn't very compressible:

Source: Trailer T3 1280*544 WMV9 6.5 Mbps

Encoding XviD 1.0 Iframe & Pframe quant4 and Bframe quant5, VHQ4, Ultra High, Trelli done 3472 Kbps and very high quality

For very low bitrate or very low compressibility choose most powerfull codec then WMV9, RV9 EHQ or VP6