DMCA and backup software - my confusion

[jfcarbel]

Does the DMCA apply to all countries and every part of the world, that is can it be enforced anywhere?

What I am thinking is that if there is some place in the world where the DMCA law does not apply, then maybe software products could offer the option to download a DLL file that when placed in the programs directory allows encrypted DVDs to work. This way the main program is not breaking any laws but they can offer the option on the web site to download this DLL for only those people who live in places where the DMCA does not apply.

Also I understand that the reason movie companies go after backup software is because the encryption is removed from the DVD stream in order to make a copy. But then why are not DVD software players illegal since many of them allow you to capture screen shots? I know many of the replies will be that the screen capture just takes a memory copy of whats in the DirectDraw buffer and thus is not doing anything wrong since the DVD is just decrypted to be sent to the display. But is this not what many transcoders do. I mean they basically are decrypting the stream, sending it to a buffer to analyze it, do some compressions to the buffer based on DCT and motion vectors, and then save the stream to the drive. Is the main DMCA issue because the final steam is left unecrypted?

What if a DVD backup program actually made a backup that included the original encryption codes. Isn't this software then legal since no decryption methods were bypassed to make the copy?

[Doom9]

What if a DVD backup program actually made a backup that included the original encryption codes. Isn't this software then legal since no decryption methods were bypassed to make the copy?Unfortunately, while technically possible, it is physically impossible. DVD-Rs have a zeroed ring where the CSS data resides on a commercial DVD. DVD+R writers won't burn CSS data either, leaving you with the theoretical possibility of having a DVD emulator software on your PC, creating a virtual drive containing CSS data, so a software DVD player would actually handle the disc as an encrypted commercial DVD.

What I am thinking is that if there is some place in the world where the DMCA law does not apply, then maybe software products could offer the option to download a DLL file that when placed in the programs directory allows encrypted DVDs to work. This way the main program is not breaking any laws but they can offer the option on the web site to download this DLL for only those people who live in places where the DMCA does not apply.
That is done sort of. The makers of AnyDVD, an on the fly decryption software, reside in a non DMCA country. German DVD Backup program manufacturer will offer a dll to re-enable CSS decryption in the future. But the problem is, you have to separate the main product maker and the one offering the dll.. it doesn't matter where you offer it from, it matters who makes it. And let's not forget that since the web is global, everybody can have access, so you have to make sure not to have a leg in a DMCA equipped country.

Also I understand that the reason movie companies go after backup software is because the encryption is removed from the DVD stream in order to make a copy. But then why are not DVD software players illegal since many of them allow you to capture screen shots?Decryption is only legal if you get a license for it. And teh DVD CCA, who grants those licenses, ain't gonna give you a license for a DVD backup program, or a DVD player that allows you to write video and audio streams to another format. Now in the very old days, programs hooked into software DVD players to grab the streams.. that was and is still legal but you'd have to fight with the maker of the player who probably will sue you for reverse engineering his player (regardless of whether that actually is true or not). But if you the DVD CCA smells DVD backup they are not going to give you a license and the only way you can descramble the data is unauthorized.

[jfcarbel]

Unfortunately, while technically possible, it is physically impossible. DVD-Rs have a zeroed ring where the CSS data resides on a commercial DVDOpps forgot about that, you are right, we use General DVD media which is it is unable to have CSS on it and you need a special burner anyways. So much for that idea

But the problem is, you have to separate the main product maker and the one offering the dll.. it doesn't matter where you offer it from, it matters who makes it. And let's not forget that since the web is global, everybody can have access, so you have to make sure not to have a leg in a DMCA equipped country.So legally couldn't 321 Studios come up with a Interface API spec for the decryption DLL and have decryption built into its software based on this DLL plugin. Then establish a totally separate company in a non-DMCA country and offer the DLL download from a website operated in that country. Then I am sure it is legal to put a link on their website for consumers in non-DMCA countries pointing to this other company that offers the DLL. I would think as long as its all done legally and both companies remain separate entities, then this might be an option for DVD software backup providers. Is this solution flawed?

I just read over some DMCA docs and I cannot believe that our congress passed this into an ACT. It basically has a fair use clause saying that digital backups can be made, but then later in the doc it states that noone can sell software or devices to deactivate Digital protection EVEN if for fair use.

So how did Congress think consumers would be able to backup digital media without the tools - MAGIC??

I am also upset that the electronics companies did not lobby harder to get this DMCA modified before it was inacted, but maybe I do not know the whole story. It could be the MPAA went around them and snuck this into congress.

Wait until electronic makers start to make portable devices to play content you can view on the road. With DMCA, no one can legally convert their DVDs to Divx. And with thus upcoming FCC broadcast flag consumers may not even be able to record TV shows to later view on the road (in my case the train on my daily commute). Maybe then our government will see the light that not only is this DMCA being abused to monopolize and bully consumers, but also is effecting development of new technologies that very well may stimulate the economy.

[Doom9]

So legally couldn't 321 Studios come up with a Interface API spec for the decryption DLL and have decryption built into its software based on this DLL plugin. Then establish a totally separate company in a non-DMCA country and offer the DLL download from a website operated in that country. Then I am sure it is legal to put a link on their website for consumers in non-DMCA countries pointing to this other company that offers the DLL. I would think as long as its all done legally and both companies remain separate entities, then this might be an option for DVD software backup providers. Is this solution flawed?
The DLL offering is done.. just check today's news, and I'm sure 321 has considered that should they loose in court (and until they can get a stay or an appeal through). But as for the link, that could be problematic. But a German DVD Backup manufacturer is preparing something like that so we'll see how this turns out pretty soon.

In any case, CSS decryption is a very small part of the whole backup process, you'll never be able to get rid of those tools so even when all major programs have to ship without CSS descrambling, you just have to know where to look to get this small step done, then the usual programs can once again be used.

[Erik_Osterholm]

Originally posted by jfcarbel


I just read over some DMCA docs and I cannot believe that our congress passed this into an ACT. It basically has a fair use clause saying that digital backups can be made, but then later in the doc it states that noone can sell software or devices to deactivate Digital protection EVEN if for fair use.

So how did Congress think consumers would be able to backup digital media without the tools - MAGIC??



I haven't read the docs, but a few things spring to mind:

1) Create the decryption tool yourself. Is there a clause that prevents this, or is it only illegal to distribute software/devices that do it?

2) Backup to another media, such as VHS. You can then begin discussing Macrovision, but I don't think that companies are legally required to respect Macrovision.

3) Hook into other decryption software, which is what early DVD copying software did (think someone mentioned this in this thread).

And perhaps the least likely:
4) Get the decryption software/device from a non-DMCA country. As long as you don't distribute it, this should be legal in the US (at least for the time being).

Really, the clause about Fair Use was just a way to get around the obvious fair use issues. What the DMCA does is leave Fair Use rights in the hands of content creators. If they don't allow backups, maybe they should be in violation of the law.

[Doom9]

You can then begin discussing Macrovision, but I don't think that companies are legally required to respect Macrovision.
They are.. and the DMCA also forbids Macrovision circumvention.

[Cobra951]

(1) The DMCA is an American law. It only applies in America.

(2) Germany is so opposed to the draconian views on intellectual property in America that it has made it illegal for German companies to do things based on such American laws. (Source: Lawyer at Lexis-Nexis)

(3) The DMCA is unconstitutional on its face. It tramples all over the First Amendment. As discovered above, it also tramples all over the fair-use doctrine, although this is not constitutional law per se.

[Doom9]

@cobra: you must've missed certain recent things. In Germany, copyright law is now more strict than in the US, and everybody is scared shitless of the industry (Germans are much more law abiding and generally don't dare to go against what is handed to them from above .. hence you've seen countless German run DVD backup websites remove anything that deals with ripping, whereas in the US websites still offer decryption tools and talk about decryption is no problem whatsoever). Have a look at the German Doom9 mirror for instance.. it took a lot for them not to remove every decryption tool.. but look for vstrip or Smartripper (and guides).. gone (and I'm completely opposed against such conformist actions.. my site is nonconformist to begin with, but I don't have absolute control over what goes on on my mirrors, and I cannot force anyone to do something that they think will get them in trouble).