D2SRoBa 3.3.3 - Plugin

[tylo]

D2SRoBa 3... It's out.

http://home.tiscali.no/tylohome

[JoLander]

Cool,
I downloaded and installed this new version and it starts correctly.
Unfortunately I'm not able to change the 'Num CDs' parameter.
There is a '1' displayed and there is nothing else in the selection list. Neither an 'auto' nor an '?' or any other number of CD's.
I can't also overwrite this field with a value (like the 'CD Size' field).

Any Ideas ??

Greetz,
Joe

[tylo]

You have selected [DVD] output. D2S only allows 1 DVD output, I believe (does it make any sense with more than one?). You have the regular num CD choices when selecting SVCD output.

[DDogg]

tylo, I did a restart with 1 cd set as target which was a little unfair for a first beta :) The plugin shifted to 2 cds.


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.72.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-06 07:55:11
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 32
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:44:48 (150769 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1941 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1512
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=899 (899) audio1_br=128 video_sz=706651083. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1941 (1941) audio1_br=128 video_sz=1525706065. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2626 (2984) audio1_br=128 video_sz=2064144321. fill=88.6% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2626 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv size : 796169209. (Q=32, 1012 kbps, err=0.0%, sample sz=7984452.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv size : 1525706065. (1941 / max 2626) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv size : 1007264156. (Q=20, 1281 kbps, err=-33.9%, sample sz=10101436.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1291669134. (Q=10, 1643 kbps, err=-15.3%, sample sz=12953616.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1575701577. (Q=2, 2004 kbps, err=3.2%, sample sz=15802060.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1549973126. (Q=3, 1971 kbps, err=1.5%, sample sz=15544040.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1519202290. (Q=4, 1932 kbps, err=-0.4%, sample sz=15235452.)
- Determined Q : 3 = round(4 - 1.0 + (-0.4)/2.0)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-06 08:08:29

Starting from new seems to be fine.

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.72.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-06 08:40:32
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 32
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:44:31 (150359 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1946 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1512
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=901 (901) audio1_br=128 video_sz=706297230. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv size : 706297230. (901 / max 2626) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv size : 649408477. (Q=44, 828 kbps, err=-8.0%, sample sz=6530408.)
- Estim. mpv size : 693153001. (Q=39, 884 kbps, err=-1.8%, sample sz=6970300.)
- Estim. mpv size : 713527441. (Q=37, 910 kbps, err=1.0%, sample sz=7175184.)
- Estim. mpv size : 703112495. (Q=38, 896 kbps, err=-0.5%, sample sz=7070452.)
- Determined Q : 37 = round(38 - 1.0 + (-0.5)/1.6)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-06 09:03:39

[tylo]

This appears to be a AutoIt3 related thing. I am 99% positive that the plugin has correct logic here, so it isn't executed correctly. I'll trace it down - hopfully it can be tweaked to avoid the prob.

In this (first) example it used 6 tests altogether which is 2-3 more than in the normal case. This may happen when Q gets close to 1, or maybe very high. My enodings so far has only used 3-4 tests in total.

PS: remember, 6 tests was always needed in the original binary search method (Bach and others).

/Add: I've also noted that this happens frequently:
Q=39, 884 kbps, err=-1.8%, sample sz=6970300.)
Q=37, 910 kbps, err=1.0%, sample sz=7175184.)
Q=38, 896 kbps, err=-0.5%, sample sz=7070452.) <-- not needed

When the algorithm has decided to test 38, when it already has tested 39 and 37, it is not really neccesary to perform the 38 test. It must be the target. I'll put in a check for that.

[DDogg]

I have another odd one for you :) This was a restart where I chose Auto mode. Got a final Q=84! :)

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.72.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-06 09:19:01
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 32
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:44:31 (150359 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1946 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1512
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=901 (901) audio1_br=128 video_sz=706297230. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv size : 706297230. (901 / max 2626) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv size : 1512920214. (Q=0, 1929 kbps, err=114.1%, sample sz=15213824.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1492889053. (Q=2, 1904 kbps, err=111.3%, sample sz=15012392.)
- Estim. mpv size : 473111753. (Q=82, 603 kbps, err=-33.0%, sample sz=4757580.)
- Estim. mpv size : 533494416. (Q=64, 680 kbps, err=-24.4%, sample sz=5364784.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1167920692. (Q=12, 1489 kbps, err=65.3%, sample sz=11744532.)
- Estim. mpv size : 606676687. (Q=50, 773 kbps, err=-14.1%, sample sz=6100700.)
- Estim. mpv size : 657554911. (Q=43, 838 kbps, err=-6.9%, sample sz=6612328.)
- Estim. mpv size : 723873970. (Q=36, 923 kbps, err=2.4%, sample sz=7279228.)
- Determined Q : 84 = round(0 - 1.0 + (114.1)/1.3)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-06 09:32:16

Those are sure some strange Q calcs ? ... BTW, are sure Newton wasn't just smokin some Babylonian? :D

/later: Start from new looks much more promising. I'll know in 37 minutes (RT=2.64 - blatant brag)


Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 32
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:44:31 (150359 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1946 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1512
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=901 (901) audio1_br=128 video_sz=706297230. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1946 (1946) audio1_br=128 video_sz=1525476591. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2626 (2991) audio1_br=128 video_sz=2058531104. fill=88.4% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2626 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv size : 790435274. (Q=32, 1008 kbps, err=0.0%, sample sz=7948564.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv size : 1525476591. (1946 / max 2626) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv size : 1330377625. (Q=10, 1697 kbps, err=-12.7%, sample sz=13378188.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1637629082. (Q=2, 2089 kbps, err=7.3%, sample sz=16467888.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1544528619. (Q=5, 1970 kbps, err=1.2%, sample sz=15531676.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1505977049. (Q=6, 1921 kbps, err=-1.2%, sample sz=15144004.)
- Determined Q : 4 = round(5 - 1.0 + (1.2)/2.5)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-06 09:54:47

[tylo]

What the heck! When it comes to testing, you're one of a kind. :D
Anyway - its the same bug as the first - just oposite. This time you recovered with 'auto' but it didn't do the: 'Computing target number of CDs', which it should - and should not have in your first log.
Something funny is happening with the recover it seems - avoid it until next beta.

/Add: @ddogg: my guess is that your current encode will oversize a bit: If i'm right, try 0.8 for adjust Q -> that would have keept Q=5.

[r6d2]

Great work, Tylo!
Originally posted by tylo
/Add: I've also noted that this happens frequently:
Q=39, 884 kbps, err=-1.8%, sample sz=6970300.)
Q=37, 910 kbps, err=1.0%, sample sz=7175184.)
Q=38, 896 kbps, err=-0.5%, sample sz=7070452.) <-- not needed
It must be the target. I'll put in a check for that.
Some comments:

The Newton method works best if you implement all exit conditions:

1. Q Error < 1. This is the absolute difference two consecutive Q values may have before ending the search. Normally you set this to 1, because if two consecutive Qs are 1 unit away from each other, further iterations are not needed. If you want to stop when two consecutive Qs are identical (to avoid potential infinite loop), choose 0.5.

2. BR Error < 1,0% This is the relative difference value two consecutive BR values may have before ending the search. Normally something like 1% or 2% is enough precision to get the right Q. Even though in theory a BR within +/- 10% of the real one is adequate enough for RoBa, a lower value will likely get more chances to succeed in 1 pass.

(If you have questions let me know, but this is also how the spreadsheet works).

Also, to avoid babylonian frustrations (like Q=0) and to optimize the search, I found this magic number, used only in the second iteration, works very well:

Max(Average(1,Q_Desired),Q_Desired*(1+2*BR_Error_First_iteration))

3rd and following iterations use the normal Newton function.

D2S only allows 1 DVD output, I believe (does it make any sense with more than one?).
AFAIK not, but it would be interesting if D2S would allow it to encode "big" dual layer DVD sources.

Thanks again for a great tool.

[DDogg]

@ddogg: my guess is that your current encode will oversize a bit: If i'm right, try 0.8 for adjust Q -> that would have keept Q=5. Exactly right - - OPV pass result: 104.1% on target ( 1587967176 / 1525476591.)

[DDogg]

I wondering if any of the new users of the plugin would know that you have to use a special CCE template to use D2SRoBa? Maybe we should do some instructions about that and place it CLEARLY on the D2SRoBa webpage? Gee, if they did not have the right template defined with "use existing VAF" and they have not chosen it in the advanced dropdown in D2s I'm wondering what their result would be?

[tylo]

I'll look into creating the RB's 'Progressive template' from the installation (optional), and make D2S use it - all automatically. :). Are there any modifications needed on that template other than the 'Use existing vaf' thing?

[DDogg]

Hmm, that could be another can of worms. Perhaps just having a notice come up in the installation dialog telling the user that a template for use with D2sRoBa must be defined and chosen in d2s...preferably with a link to a simple instruction page /maybe template download page /?

I say can of worms because source might be progressive or interlaced with all types of permutations. I think you should just tell the user it is their responsibility. /add I guess you could check that a template has been chosen in D2s?

Instructions (first draft) could just be:

1> In the CCE Template menu make sure "Standard" is checked, and then click on it again. This will bring up the template design interface. In other words, clicking on any checked template brings up the template creation/edit dialog box.

2> For the Progressive D2sRoBa template in the 2.67.x CCE series go to quality tab and uncheck everything except "Progressive Frame Flag" and "Zigzag". Exit the Quality tab. (for Interlaced template see note below)

3> In the video tab uncheck everything except "Add Sequence Endcode". Set "Offset line" to 0 [note to self - double check all of this]. Set M=3 and N/M = 4. Exit the Video tab.

4> In the main area under "Mode" choose "MPEG-2 (ES, Multipass VBR)". Directly under "Mode" and the bitrate settings is "Multipass VBR settings" - Choose "Use existing file". Don't worry about any other special settings in the main tab except for step 5 below.

5> In "Title" change "Standard" to "D2sRoBa - Progressive", and click the "Add" button located in the lower left. Note - If needed, when changing this custom template in the future you would use "Replace" instead of "Add". Exit template design and verify D2sRoBa Progressive template is available in the template menu. Exit CCE.

6> Run DVD2SVCD. Go to the "encoder" tab and make sure "Cinema Craft Encoder" is selected. On the lower right of that dialog is "Advanced Settings" - Select it, check "use CCE template" and verify your custom template is available in the selection box. When doing an encode with D2sRoBa, remember to always chose this template.

Note: All settings are the same for the D2sRoBa - Interlaced template except step 2 above. The only thing that should be checked is "alternate". Follow the steps above with this exception and create your D2sRoBa - Interlaced template while you are doing this.

[tylo]

@DDogg, I agree that it could easily be to intrusive to do such a thing automatically (even if it is optional). Your instructions are good anyway. Ok.

@r6d2, Thanks for all help with the Newton method. I have used your spreadsheet and mails to implement it. DDoggs veird Q's is a result of wrong input due to the problem mentioned - not the Newton method.

There is maybe a few tweaks that can be done still: E.g. Adjust Q could be some function of Q - it seems that for low Q's we should be more careful with adjusting (as in DDogg's example), but on higher Q's, one can sometimes adjust 2. Maybe you can think about it.
Info: 1.2 is the BR error, 2.5 is the percentage size of one Q step relative to the target bitrate.
- Determined Q : 4 = round(5 - 1.0 + (1.2)/2.5)
This gave 4.48, - 4.50 would have rounded to Q=5, so it was close.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
There is maybe a few tweaks that can be done still: E.g. Adjust Q could be some function of Q - it seems that for low Q's we should be more careful with adjusting (as in DDogg's example), but on higher Q's, one can sometimes adjust 2. Maybe you can think about it.
It makes a lot of sense. I'll give it a thought.

[DDogg]

FYI - One data point on the source above doing a CVD - Q 28 693,560kb Q 29 679,812kb.

[r6d2]

Everything worked fine as fas as the encode matters. But after audio was encoded and D2S was resumed, I got a message box from it saying:

Audio+Video bitrate=2810 (or some number like that), out of specs, do you want to continue?

:confused:


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.72.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-06 15:53:37
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2756 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:51:32 (160459 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1825 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1605
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=841 (841) audio1_br=128 video_sz=703547396. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1761 (1761) audio1_br=192 video_sz=1473183074. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2532 (2714) audio1_br=224 video_sz=2118171234. fill=93.8% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2564 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv size : 841524176. (Q=40, 1005 kbps, err=0.0%, sample sz=8417392.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv size : 1473183074. (1761 / max 2564) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv size : 1427043366. (Q=16, 1705 kbps, err=-3.1%, sample sz=14274080.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1505648881. (Q=14, 1799 kbps, err=2.2%, sample sz=15060336.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1465245205. (Q=15, 1751 kbps, err=-0.5%, sample sz=14656196.)
- Determined Q : 14 = round(15 - 1.0 + (-0.5)/2.7)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-06 16:26:01
- Actual mpv file size:
06-11-2003 18:07 1418289976 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- OPV pass result: 96.3% on target ( 1418289976 / 1473183074.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 1761 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
06-11-2003 19:33 1472236660 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 99.9% on target ( 1472236660 / 1473183074.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "E:\Indiana I\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "E:\INDIAN~1\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.mp2" -logfile "E:\INDIAN~1\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s ) -split( -start 0 -end 6692.44244244244 )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-06 19:48:13

[r6d2]

I encoded another movie. I got the same D2S warning of out to spec things. Besides, I selected 1 CD, Roba used 2 and the result was 3! (a small third image for not doing sizing pass) :confused:

P.S.: Logs are much more difficult to post. They get blanks lines almost every other line... (?) Have to edit them manually.

--------------------------------------------------------
D2Sroba v3.0 beta 1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.72.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-06 23:59:20
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 60
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=0 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 80 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:53:20 (163046 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (96 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1826 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1635
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=873 (873) audio1_br=80 video_sz=742091873. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1762 (1762) audio1_br=160 video_sz=1497784514. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2530 (2667) audio1_br=224 video_sz=2150621351. fill=95.3% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2674 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv size : 845187783. (Q=40, 994 kbps, err=0.0%, sample sz=8475412.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv size : 1497784514. (1762 / max 2594) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv size : 1199126245. (Q=22, 1410 kbps, err=-19.9%, sample sz=12024652.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1396233003. (Q=16, 1642 kbps, err=-6.7%, sample sz=14001208.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1512610950. (Q=13, 1779 kbps, err=1.0%, sample sz=15168228.)
- Determined Q : 12 = round(13 - 1.0 + (1.0)/2.6)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-07 00:19:56
- Actual mpv file size:
07-11-2003 01:37 1548302572 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- OPV pass result: 103.4% on target ( 1548302572 / 1497784514.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "E:\Indiana II\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "E:\INDIAN~2\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.mp2" -logfile "E:\INDIAN~2\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 160 -m s ) -split( -start 0 -end 6800.34200867534 )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-07 01:50:16

[Crackhead]

I did some recover encodes and the calculations went fine!
2-3 estimations max and no added cd oder anything, so works correct for me!
I didn't encode the entire movie, cause these encodes were for testing purposes with different filters and matrices!

Just one "bug" i found:
when you recover an tmpgenc encode, D2SRoba shows a cryptic error message (somewhere in between this message, it says "you must use cce....), and doesn't initialize its crash recovery, so it would be nice if D2SRoba would automatically select CCE as encoder!

[tylo]

Thanks for reports. Audio+Video too large I know about, and I will fix it for next release. Just uncheck the test in the bitrate tab as for now. In the second log, you also got the same problem as DDogg, and I see it is not related to the recover (fortunately). I am quite sure it is some kind of problem with AutoIt3, but I'll try to get around it somehow.
I'll check the extra line feed thing too.

Why do you want an oversized image? I assume you set CD size to the media max capacity (including overburing). You can choose whether to do a sizing pass or let D2S cut off the oversize part (assuming it contains credits). An oversized image is worthless.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Audio+Video too large I know about. [...]I'll check the extra line feed thing too.
Thanks a lot.

An oversized image is worthless.
Of course. I just wanted to gather more data for the adjust thing. ;)

Other comments:

1. Regarding the template thing... Why is it needed? I mean, the RB templates are needed, of course, with CCE 2.66+. But since the plugin customizes the ECL file, is it really needed? Is it needed also to have "Create VAF file checked" in D2S?

I think not in both cases. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

2. I'm curious about the first iteration giving err=0. Does it mean it fit perfectly?

- Estim. mpv size : 845187783. (Q=40, 994 kbps, err=0.0%, sample sz=8475412.)

3. crackhead's post made me think... Couldn't just the size determination part of CCE be used to produce "2 Pass VBR" TMPGEnc encodes? I mean, get the number of CDs with CCE, then switch to prefered encoder (whatever it might be).

[Crackhead]

3. crackhead's post made me think... Couldn't just the size determination part of CCE be used to produce "2 Pass VBR" TMPGEnc encodes? I mean, get the number of CDs with CCE, then switch to prefered encoder (whatever it might be).

hehe i don't think this is really necessary cause "you should" prefer cce for svcd-encodes, since cce is way faster and gives better quality, and for vcd-encodes tmpgenc is better!
and with kwag's cqmatic there is no necessity to use 2 pass vbr with tmpqenc anymore!

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Crackhead
[B]hehe i don't think this is really necessary cause "you should" prefer cce for svcd-encodes, since cce is way faster and gives better quality, and for vcd-encodes tmpgenc is better!
Hmmm... I won't get into an religious discussion ;) (I prefer CCE too for some tasks) but "quality" is ultimately always in the eye of the beholder. I have had TMPGEnc encodes I cannot surpass with CCE. Also, word of mouth is that Procoder does a great job too.

and with kwag's cqmatic there is no necessity to use 2 pass vbr with tmpqenc anymore!
I agree. But I wonder... Does CQmatic integrate with DVD2SVCD easily?

[Crackhead]

Hmmm... I won't get into an religious discussion (I prefer CCE too for some tasks) but "quality" is ultimately always in the eye of the beholder. I agree!;)

But I wonder... Does CQmatic integrate with DVD2SVCD easily? I use azel's DVD2KVCD plugin for that issue..it includes cqmatic in the process. besides that, it is a very good program for any encodes with tmpgenc cause it doesn't insist on using 1 cd...

but i've got to say it wouldn't be that bad to include cce's file prediction into the encoding process of another encoder:D
cause with the newton-rapson method, it is very fast (compared to cqmatic, which can take about an hour or more to predict) and precise!

it would be incredible, but i don't think it is very realistic, if there were any relation/dependency of tmpgenc's cq-value and cce's q.factor...

i think we're getting a little bit off-topic here:D
so back TO topic:
D2SRoba 3 works great, got no problems til now, but i have to do a little bit more testing before i can testify that!

keep up the great work, tylo!! thx for this great tool!

[tylo]

Thanks, Crackhead,
But I don't think I will do anything about the TMPGEnc related stuff. Use CCE with D2SRoBa, and that's it.
I'm curious about the first iteration giving err=0. Does it mean it fit perfectly?Nope. It just didn't compute the err for the first iter. (in "auto" mode, it hasn't even decided num CDs/target bitrate at printout time, so it couldn't have).

/Add: to reduce number of post, I reply here. I can confirm that both D2SRoBa v2.7x and v3.0 will work, even if 'use existing vaf' is NOT checked - D2SRoBa checks that itself for the sizing pass. (sorry haven't mentioned that, I guess) :)

[ric1234]

Originally posted by r6d2
1. Regarding the template thing... Why is it needed? I mean, the RB templates are needed, of course, with CCE 2.66+. But since the plugin customizes the ECL file, is it really needed? Is it needed also to have "Create VAF file checked" in D2S?

I think not in both cases. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
[/B] I have been using D2SRoBa and CCE 2.66 for a while and I must admit I completely missed everything about using a special CCE template in DVD2SVCD... (shame on me, newbee mistake !)

Thanks to what you just wrote I will catch up with the RB templates very soon.
But beyond that, I must say that even if I never used any template, D2SRoBa always worked fine for me. Did I miss something or would this confirm what r6d2 says... ?

Regards, Ric

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Crackhead
cause with the newton-rapson method, it is very fast (compared to cqmatic, which can take about an hour or more to predict) and precise!
I did some experiments with the Newton method applied to TMPGEnc's CQ and suggested Kwag to take look at them. The problem is that while Q converges quite fast with it, CQ does not since the derivative of the function is not monotonic. You have to get a "good seed" to have it converge at all.

it would be incredible, but i don't think it is very realistic, if there were any relation/dependency of tmpgenc's cq-value and cce's q.factor...
A guy reported once to have found a sort of biyective relation, but I guess he was high on crack :). On the general case, there is none according to the results I got (See here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=365460#post365460) if interested.)

Originally posted by ric1234
I have been using D2SRoBa and CCE 2.66 for a while and I must admit I completely missed everything about using a special CCE template in DVD2SVCD... (shame on me, newbee mistake !)
RB templates are actually recommended whether you use RoBa or not, they make the internal CCE filter setup predictable in DVD2SVCD. The encode will work without them, but you may never have a clue on what settings were used :(

@Tylo, do you agree in that creating a special RoBa template is not needed with the plugin, as it was with internal RoBa? The RB original templates will do, right?

[telemike]

Where are the RB templates? I think the plugin should just pop em in there for us lazy people or have an option to install them.:)

[ric1234]

You will find them in RB's sticky post in Advanced forum : "HOW TO: Use CCE 2.66+ trial with DVD2SVCD"

Ric

[r6d2 edit] :helpful:

[r6d2]

@Tylo,

Run again another movie. D2Sroba crashed with:

Line 0:
$g_target_mpv_br = $g_Video_BR[$t_numCDs]
Error: Array variable has incorrect number of subscripts or dimension range exceeded.


Also, I wonder why the plugin tries with Q=0. If you use the magic number, it should always be not zero. :confused:

Log follows:

--------------------------------------------------------
D2Sroba v3.0 beta 1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.72.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-07 13:42:27
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : ?
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 60
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=0 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 80 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:27:24 (125745 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1089 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1260
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1137 (1137) audio1_br=112 video_sz=745391563. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv size : 745391563. (1137 / max 2642) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv size : 1496014212. (Q=0, 2281 kbps, err=100.6%, sample sz=14990480.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1491376018. (Q=2, 2274 kbps, err=100.0%, sample sz=14944004.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1463398754. (Q=5, 2232 kbps, err=96.3%, sample sz=14663664.)
- Estim. mpv size : 429050722. (Q=83, 654 kbps, err=-42.4%, sample sz=4299208.)
- Estim. mpv size : 527957348. (Q=59, 805 kbps, err=-29.1%, sample sz=5290280.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1446434356. (Q=6, 2206 kbps, err=94.0%, sample sz=14493676.)
- Estim. mpv size : 622727562. (Q=46, 949 kbps, err=-16.4%, sample sz=6239904.)
- Estim. mpv size : 684612066. (Q=40, 1044 kbps, err=-8.1%, sample sz=6860004.)
- Estim. mpv size : 762315690. (Q=34, 1162 kbps, err=2.2%, sample sz=7638616.)
- Determined Q : 57 = round(0 - 1.0 + (100.6)/1.7)

[telemike]

Success with AVI2SVCD and D2SRoba


D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.72.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-07 19:03:18
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : on=0 (-3.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2500 kbps)
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 00:59:29 (85571 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1664 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 870
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1664 (1664) audio1_br=160 video_sz=742357691. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv size : 742357691. (1664 / max 2340) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv size : 424920013. (Q=24, 952 kbps, err=-42.7%, sample sz=4320160.)
- Estim. mpv size : 623492338. (Q=10, 1397 kbps, err=-15.9%, sample sz=6339044.)
- Estim. mpv size : 799303171. (Q=2, 1791 kbps, err=7.6%, sample sz=8126512.)
- Estim. mpv size : 751358624. (Q=5, 1684 kbps, err=1.2%, sample sz=7639060.)
- Estim. mpv size : 723833483. (Q=6, 1622 kbps, err=-2.4%, sample sz=7359212.)
- Determined Q : 5 = round(5 - 0.5 + (1.2)/3.7)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-07 19:11:00
- Actual mpv file size:
11/07/2003 08:11 PM 737207144 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 99.3% on target ( 737207144 / 742357691.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-07 20:11:20

[r6d2]

Originally posted by telemike
- Movie length : 00:59:29 (85571 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1664 kbps, 1 CDs
I'm curious... 1 hour video and D2S estimated 1664-kbps? I don't know you, guys, but something smells bad to me here.

Also the search took too long. Why was 24 chosen as first iteration?

[Trahald]

successful encode.. although it didnt have to do a search since BR topped out so it did CBR.


-------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.72.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-08 01:34:49
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-3.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=1 (Fixed bitrate, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:11:48 (129132 frames, 29.97 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (96 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1404 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 2592
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1404 (1404) audio1_br=96 video_sz=756178378. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=2658 (2920) audio1_br=96 video_sz=1431568468. fill=91.4% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2658 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv size : 1190984237. (Q=40, 2211 kbps, err=0.0%, sample sz=23906012.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv size : 1431568468. (2658 / max 2658) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
- Reduced CD size : 733 (fill = 91.4%)
- Using CBR mode
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-08 02:19:16
- Actual mpv file size:
11/08/2003 03:46 AM 1431567048 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\movie\snl\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\movie\snl\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\movie\snl\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 96 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-08 03:52:29

[r6d2]

@Tylo,
[list=1]
Audio.
Perhaps you could set Audio BR in D2S to the minimun selected in D2Sroba when user selects Audio by the plugin. This would have D2S calculate the Video BR closer to what the user expects.

Number of CDs and minutes
Since I have not been able to get my hands on the source, I don't know how are you filling the Bitrate Tab, if at all. But also It may be useful to fill it so the maximum BR for each range is set to:

Max_by_Spec - Min_Audio_by_User - CBR_Threshold_by_User

Q limits
Are you checking that Q moves within [1, Q_Max] on each iteration? (I have some checking on this on the spreadsheet).
[/list=1]

New encode done. Started wil Q=0 again and went to the clouds afterwards (And used a Q with a very big error).

--------------------------------------------------------
D2Sroba v3.0 beta 1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.72.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-08 12:27:30
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 60
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-3.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 112 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:27:24 (125745 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (112 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1137 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1260
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1137 (1137) audio1_br=112 video_sz=745391563. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv size : 745391563. (1137 / max 2642) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv size : 1496014212. (Q=0, 2281 kbps, err=100.6%, sample sz=14990480.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1491376018. (Q=2, 2274 kbps, err=100.0%, sample sz=14944004.)
- Estim. mpv size : 261753187. (Q=327, 399 kbps, err=-64.8%, sample sz=2622840.)
- Estim. mpv size : 290289718. (Q=199, 442 kbps, err=-61.0%, sample sz=2908784.)
- Estim. mpv size : 1496014212. (Q=1, 2281 kbps, err=100.6%, sample sz=14990480.)
- Estim. mpv size : 348437798. (Q=124, 531 kbps, err=-53.2%, sample sz=3491444.)
- Estim. mpv size : 435071313. (Q=81, 663 kbps, err=-41.6%, sample sz=4359536.)
- Determined Q : 56 = round(0 - 1.0 + (100.6)/1.8)

[r6d2]

Same movie as last post, tweaking the Audio and Video BR as explained. Turned out perfect (I used Auto mode with Q=35). Log follows:

--------------------------------------------------------
D2Sroba v3.0 beta 1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.72.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-08 14:18:17
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 35
- Maximum Q. : 40
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 0.5)%
- Audio by plugin : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 112 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:23:44 (120457 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (112 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1192 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1215
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1192 (1192) audio1_br=112 video_sz=748585794. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=2512 (2512) audio1_br=112 video_sz=1577556640. fill=100.0% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2642 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv size : 729414227. (Q=35, 1161 kbps, err=0.0%, sample sz=7357300.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv size : 748585794. (1192 / max 2642) kbps
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv size : 743358686. (Q=34, 1183 kbps, err=-0.7%, sample sz=7497952.)
- Determined Q : 33 = round(34 - 1.0 + (-0.7)/1.8)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-08 14:41:30
- Actual mpv file size:
08-11-2003 15:54 724510812 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- OPV pass result: 96.8% on target ( 724510812 / 748585794.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 1192 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
08-11-2003 17:11 747955768 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 99.9% on target ( 747955768 / 748585794.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "E:\Johnny English\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "E:\JOHNNY~2\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.mp2" -logfile "E:\JOHNNY~2\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 112 -m s ) -split( -start 0 -end 5024.02402402402 )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-08 17:27:24

[Holomatrix]

Nice !! :) 100.0%

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 2
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_2000, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-08 13:56:53
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : 2
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:18:17 (198939 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1435 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 3984
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=646 (646) audio1_br=128 video_sz=670016861. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1435 (1435) audio1_br=128 video_sz=1488350147. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2225 (2225) audio1_br=128 video_sz=2307720611. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 4 CD: video_br=2626 (3014) audio1_br=128 video_sz=2723628910. fill=87.7% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2626 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 974 (Q=40, err=0.0%, size=1010866384., sample sz=20243852.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1435 (max 2626) kbps, size=1488350147. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1173 (Q=27, err=-18.2%, size=1217279578., sample sz=24377532.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1332 (Q=20, err=-7.1%, size=1382535169., sample sz=27686980.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1481 (Q=15, err=3.2%, size=1536405098., sample sz=30768416.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1416 (Q=17, err=-1.2%, size=1469404201., sample sz=29426640.)
- Deriv. mpv BR : 1448 (Q=16, err=0.9%)
- Determined Q : 15 = round(16 - 1.0 + (0.9)/2.3)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-08 14:34:22
- Actual mpv file size:
08/11/2003 05:50p 1487874844 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 100.0% on target ( 1487874844 / 1488350147.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "F:\MovieEncode\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "F:\MOVIEE~1\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "F:\MOVIEE~1\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 2db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -ota( -d 17 ) -2lame( -e -b 128 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-08 18:07:59

[telemike]

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 2
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-09 13:29:57
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 60
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : on=0 (-3.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2650 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:47:41 (154910 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1821 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1560
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=807 (807) audio1_br=192 video_sz=651757852. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1821 (1821) audio1_br=192 video_sz=1470695226. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2458 (2836) audio1_br=192 video_sz=1985155885. fill=87.6% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2458 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1120 (Q=40, err=0.0%, size=905340513., sample sz=9117108.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1821 (max 2458) kbps, size=1470695226. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1666 (Q=18, err=-8.4%, size=1345665436., sample sz=13551340.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1847 (Q=12, err=1.4%, size=1492227773., sample sz=15027276.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1818 (Q=13, err=-0.1%, size=1468926925., sample sz=14792628.)
- Determined Q : 12 = round(13 - 0.5 + (-0.1)/1.6)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-09 14:19:58
- Actual mpv file size:
11/09/2003 04:37 PM 1425352964 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 96.9% on target ( 1425352964 / 1470695226.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-09 16:37:31

[telemike]

Tylo-

Can you set the conditional sizing for when the mpv size goes oversize and maybe 10% under?

[r6d2]

Just check "Conditional sizing pass" and set 10% and 0%. Your settings will remain sticky.

[tylo]

Audio.
Perhaps you could set Audio BR in D2S to the minimun selected in D2Sroba when user selects Audio by the plugin. This would have D2S calculate the Video BR closer to what the user expects.

Number of CDs and minutes
Since I have not been able to get my hands on the source, I don't know how are you filling the Bitrate Tab, if at all. But also It may be useful to fill it so the maximum BR for each range is set to:
Max_by_Spec - Min_Audio_by_User - CBR_Threshold_by_User

Q limits
Are you checking that Q moves within [1, Q_Max] on each iteration? (I have some checking on this on the spreadsheet).
1. I could. Although often D2Sroba will use a higher audio br than minimum, so I don't know.
2. I don't fill Max br in the bitrate tab - it has no effect on D2S's calcs. Max avg has! - although I don't set that either - maybe I should. (I do however set correct Max br in the ECL file when doing CCE).
3. I do checkings. But all the errors so far looks like a result of the strange AutoIt3 related bug (it seems to execute the code incorrectly). I have reshuffled the code in Beta 2 in order to get around it, so please tell me if you still get this error.
(You should get: "Computing target number of CDs:" when using "auto" mode, and only then).

PS: I will include source code in beta 3, which hopfully will be the last before release.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
1. I could. Although often D2Sroba will use a higher audio br than minimum, so I don't know.
You're right, often (though this depends heavily on the "minimun" selected by the user :)). I was thinking in getting more consistency with my second point.
2. I don't fill Max br in the bitrate tab - it has no effect on D2S's calcs. Max avg has!
I don't know if I understand your comment, but I was thinking of the ranges, not the max. That 46 min stuff you had in the old code.

- although I don't set that either - maybe I should.
This may be the origin of the "out of specs" message. :confused:

[Edit: still in doubt about this :)]
@Tylo, do you agree in that creating a special RoBa template is not needed with the plugin, as it was with internal RoBa? The RB original templates will do, right?

[tylo]

I don't know if I understand your comment, but I was thinking of the ranges, not the max. That 46 min stuff you had in the old code.OK, I misread your question. Yep, I still use a simple formula that make the max range bitrate always be below 2230. Your suggestions makes sense.
This may be the origin of the "out of specs" message.No, that was because I update the audio bitrate settings in the project file (when audio by plugins), but not the corresponding Max br (i.e if audio increased, I must lower max br for a fixed max video br). Done in beta 2.

- The RB's templates will do as they are.

[DDogg]

It took 2 tests to come up with the Q. I do love it when a plan come together! :D

D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 2
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-10 17:35:01
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 32
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 0.6
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=0 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:39:23 (142983 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2053 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1440
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=955 (955) audio1_br=128 video_sz=711903388. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=2053 (2053) audio1_br=128 video_sz=1530405922. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2584 (3152) audio1_br=128 video_sz=1926239114. fill=82.8% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Estim. mpv BR : 895 (Q=32, err=0.0%, size=667900998., sample sz=6726516.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 955 (max 2584) kbps, size=711903388. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 948 (Q=29, err=-0.6%, size=706923442., sample sz=7119516.)
- Determined Q : 28 = round(29 - 0.6 + (-0.6)/1.8)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-10 18:24:22
- Actual mpv file size:
11/10/2003 07:22 PM 724394992 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- OPV pass result: 101.8% on target ( 724394992 / 711903388.)

[ebcoelho]

Tylo,

I had D2SRoBa version 2 and 3, the version 2 work with DVD2SVCD + ECLCCE + D2SRoBa but this beta version don't work for me.

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 2
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_2000, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-10 18:17:41
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 5.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...

DVD2SVCD_log.txt

WNASPI32.DLL 4.6.0.1021
--------------------------------------------------------
- 10/11/2003 18:17:58
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
.
.
.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 10/11/2003 19:39:30
- Free on drive C: 3808.90 mb
- Conversion done!
--------------------------------------------------------

[DDogg Edit] Merged this new thread into the V 3 thread. :rolleyes:

[telemike]

Which version of DVD2SVCD are you using?

I find that the newest version doesn't work so well with the plugin. I am back to using version 113b2.:mad:

[DDogg]

telemike, *what* isn't working? I can never pin down what problens you are having. If there is a problem with B3 we need a report with details to get it fixed. I have not had a problem so far myself.

[telemike]

Tylo's plugin was trying to close CCE and CCE froze, so DVD2SVCD went right into pulldown.....


I will try doing a clean removal and re-install and see what happens....

[ditto_n]

Ddogg, should i use your log as an example? I have not tried to do anything with the new beta, but I don't want any errors if somthing I need to rip pops up.

[kru]

First of all I just want to thank Tylo for this fantasic pluggin
I also want to thank DDogg and r6d2 for making D2SRoBa possible

I'm a litle bit curious; I was encoding a interlaced film. I saw that a template for interlaced sources was automaticly set up, with CCE filters etc. How many different templates can D2SRoBa make? I've also read that you should not use any CCE filters. Is this right???

But I installed 3.0 beta 2, this "auto CCE" templates seems to be gone?:(

I also find a litle fault... When I try to recover a D2S project that are made with TMPGEnc, D2SRoba have problems to create a "MsgBox", and the plugin quits.

And can I only select "FACAR" in framesevertab, without preveiw the film with "FACAR_detectborders"???

Once again, THANKS!!!

[Crackhead]

Originally posted by kru
But I installed 3.0 beta 2, this "auto CCE" templates seems to be gone?:( I can't remember D2SRoba ever setting up any kind of CCE template!?:confused:
I use RB's templates with "Reuse vaf" checked.
I think they're doing a great job.

Originally posted by kru
And can I only select "FACAR" in framesevertab, without preveiw the film with "FACAR_detectborders"???yes you can! if the detected_top and detected_height values are already set up right, you don't need to do the detect_borders thing anymore.
But be careful:
The values differ from movie to movie...so if you encode another movie, you have to detect the borders again! :)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by kru
I'm a litle bit curious; I was encoding a interlaced film. I saw that a template for interlaced sources was automaticly set up, with CCE filters etc. How many different templates can D2SRoBa make?
D2Sroba does not make (or need) any templates of its own. You are adviced to use RB's templates in DVD2SVCD whether you use D2Sroba or not.
I've also read that you should not use any CCE filters. Is this right???
You can use them, of course. The problem is that through DVD2SVCD you may not get the settings you expect since CCE uses the last template loaded anyway, regardless of DVD2SVCD settings. If you want to use them, edit the template as DDogg's sticky teaches.

However (IMHO), it's better to stick to AviSynth if you want some filtering.
I also find a litle fault... When I try to recover a D2S project that are made with TMPGEnc, D2SRoba have problems to create a "MsgBox", and the plugin quits.
This one should make it into the FAQ ;)

D2Sroba only supports CEE. OTOH, Switching encoders in DVD2SVCD is not supported on a resume. Weird things may happen. It you switch encoders, better to start from scratch.
And can I only select "FACAR" in framesevertab, without preveiw the film with "FACAR_detectborders"???
Yes, but you'll have to set up the borders manually, or they will remain the last ones used.

[kru]

Thanks!

RB's templates are one for progresive source and one for interlaced sources??
Are there any way to select those temlpates automatic?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by kru
RB's templates are one for progresive source and one for interlaced sources??
Are there any way to select those temlpates automatic?
You select either one depending on the source. That's as much automatic as it gets ;)

Just curious... What source are you encoding? I have never, ever needed to encode interlaced material when source is a movie on NTSC DVD. Look at this (http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm) guide to get it right if that is your case.

[Crackhead]

I'm in Pal-Region here, but surprisingly i got more interlaced dvds than progressive ones...! :eek: :sly:
at the moment i don't do anything about it, just leave it interlaced.
is it recommended to deinterlace? and what method would you then prefer or propose? the good, the bad or the ugly?:D :D

[telemike]

Did a complete re-install of D2S and the plugin. Now everything seems to work fine.

[ric1234]

My first encode with D2SRoBa3 (b2) failed, did I miss something ?
I asked for a 2CD-encode and got 3, it look as if the worst Q was taken into account, is this normal ?
Thanks, Ric.

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 2
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-11 22:58:13
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : 2
- Sample percent : 3.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 1.4
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:10:51 (196280 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1495 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 5895
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=660 (660) audio1_br=160 video_sz=647724000. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1495 (1495) audio1_br=160 video_sz=1467193000. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2294 (2331) audio1_br=160 video_sz=2251331600. fill=98.5% cbr=0
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2594 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2035 (Q=40, err=0.0%, size=1997678240., sample sz=59997520.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 3
- Target mpv BR : 2294 (max 2594) kbps, size=2251331600. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2468 (Q=17, err=7.6%, size=2422659634., sample sz=72761252.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2443 (Q=19, err=6.5%, size=2398380714., sample sz=72032068.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2229 (Q=31, err=-2.7%, size=2188375031., sample sz=65724836.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2311 (Q=27, err=0.7%, size=2268307306., sample sz=68125492.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2291 (Q=28, err=-0.0%, size=2249286892., sample sz=67554240.)
- Determined Q : 26 = round(28 - 1.4 + (-0.0)/0.9)
- Reduced CD size : 790 (fill = 98.5%)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-12 00:07:55
- Actual mpv file size:
12/11/2003 01:19 2256445696 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL_FS1.mpv
- OPV pass result: 100.2% on target ( 2256445696 / 2251331600.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 2294 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
12/11/2003 02:29 2250079044 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL_FS1.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 99.9% on target ( 2250079044 / 2251331600.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-12 02:29:47

[r6d2]

Guys, I set up a D2Sroba FAQ in the basic forum. If you have contributions, please post them there.

[telemike]

I can't figure out why D2Sroba is not fuilly shutting down CCE and DVD2SCD. It keeps hanging up at that point. My next step is to completely remove avisynth, dvd2svcd, d2sroba and re-install....:mad:

[Trahald]

I can't figure out why D2Sroba is not fuilly shutting down CCE and DVD2SCD. It keeps hanging up at that point. My next step is to completely remove avisynth, dvd2svcd, d2sroba and re-install....

hmm... i havent had that problem in a while now (i have tried to make sure i dont have alot of programs running while encoding so things run smoothly.. i dont have alot of ram (256mb). that seems to have helped. i havent tested version 3 under bad conditions yet. i'll try tonight and report back

on a seperate note - here is a partial log from an encode last night. 2 cds, came out perfect.

Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1736 (Q=16, err=-6.8%, size=1427395913., sample sz=28577800.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1935 (Q=11, err=3.8%, size=1590594290., sample sz=31845184.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1854 (Q=13, err=-0.4%, size=1524307474., sample sz=30518060.)
- Determined Q : 12 = round(13 - 0.5 + (-0.4)/2.2)

- OPV pass result: 100.4% on target ( 1537607768 / 1531905030.)


100.4% with 3 searches and w/out needing vbr pass. nice work, tylo!

[syzygytec]

I'd like to ask what the improvements are in v3. It looks like it is not going so well. I'm am having great results with 2.70rc2. Can the default settings of v3 be used in 2.70 or are those specific to v3 and some new calculation being used? What is v3 suppose to improve over 2.70?
I'm not complaining, not at all this is a fantastic plugin for tool using newbie's like me especially who could not (without much reasearch and study) ever do all of this manually w/o d2s, roba, facar ect. and I'm 100% behind you and the amazing improvements we will no doubt see in the future from tylo and I'll have to leave the testing to those who actually understand it all, just curious however what the goals are in v3

[r6d2]

Originally posted by syzygytec
I'd like to ask what the improvements are in v3. It looks like it is not going so well. I'm am having great results with 2.70rc2.
Try the new Version 3 Beta 3 just uploaded.

To know the new features see Tylos's posts, but basically uses AutoIt 3, a more powerful language, uses Newton method for searching (quite faster), and has an integrated log window.

Also, read the new FAQ in the basic forum.

[tylo]

- Number of CD's : 2
....
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
That strange AutoIt3 bug seems to stick. I should have logged some debugging to detect what is going wrong. The source is out, so the logic can be reviewed. The variable $g_fixedNumCDs must be traced. It is supposed to be set to 1 (true) in this case (in fDerivedSettings()), and the test 'If (Not $g_fixedNumCDs)' shouldn't have kicked in as it did.

Maybe the following line didn't evaluate to 1 as it should?
$g_fixedNumCDs = ($g_select_CDs <> "auto") And ($g_select_CDs <> "?")
If so, two alternatives to this line could be:
- $g_fixedNumCDs = Not (($g_select_CDs = "auto") Or ($g_select_CDs = "?"))
- $g_fixedNumCDs = (StringInStr("1 2 3 4", $g_select_CDs) > 0)
@ric: if you are able to reproduce the bug, please tell me.
In any case: fLog("Fixed num CDs: " & $g_fixedNumCDs) should be added wherever that variable is used.

When it comes to CCE not breaking, I only know it could be a problem on Win 9x/ME platforms.

[telemike]

I am using Windows XP....

I will have a chance to re-install everything and try again.

[ric1234]

Originally posted by tylo
@ric: if you are able to reproduce the bug, please tell me.
Ok, I did some further testing... The bug only occurs the very first time D2SRoBa runs after being freshly installed !

It happens with beta3 too. From the 2nd encode after installation, eveything seems back to normal. Uninstall + reinstall => bug back again, for 1st encode only, etc.

Hope it helps. Ric.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
When it comes to CCE not breaking, I only know it could be a problem on Win 9x/ME platforms.
@telemike, what version of CCE are you using?

@tylo, again, now looking at the source, congrats on a good job!. When looking at this line of code:

ProcessWaitClose("EclCCE.exe")
it seems you are not supporting 2.5, right?

Also, I wonder if shutting down D2S first and then CCE might be possible. That way D2S would not have a chance to start pulldown if CCE does not close...

[r6d2]

Originally posted by ric1234
[B]Ok, I did some further testing... The bug only occurs the very first time D2SRoBa runs after being freshly installed !
@Ric, if you set a high worst Q (i.e.=100), does it behave the same?

[/Add]
@Tylo, found a visual quirk: there's an extra '|' in the adjust Q string which shows up as blank in the combo box.

[telemike]

@r6d2: I am using CCE 2.67

Here's my first try and the bug for CD sizing happened. I wanted 1-CD but it is doing 2.


------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 3
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-12 17:57:28
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-5.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=1 (Fixed bitrate, 10%, min 96 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2650 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:50:14 (158587 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1777 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 750, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 3180
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=785 (785) audio1_br=192 video_sz=649038596. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1777 (1777) audio1_br=192 video_sz=1469224949. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2458 (2770) audio1_br=192 video_sz=2032276266. fill=89.5% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2458 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 816 (Q=40, err=0.0%, size=675428017., sample sz=13543740.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1777 (max 2458) kbps, size=1469224949. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1161 (Q=22, err=-34.6%, size=959939080., sample sz=19248780.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2008 (Q=3, err=13.0%, size=1660293782., sample sz=33292352.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1741 (Q=8, err=-1.9%, size=1440249233., sample sz=28880000.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1812 (Q=7, err=2.0%, size=1498938790., sample sz=30056848.)
- Determined Q : 6 = round(7 - 1.0 + (2.0)/4.0)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-12 18:21:31
- Actual mpv file size:
11/12/2003 08:01 PM 1522216116 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 103.6% on target ( 1522216116 / 1469224949.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 1777 kbps.

[r6d2]

I've put some debug logging in the script as Tylo suggested and cannot find the source of the problem. I also have the occuring sometimes, others works OK, same as ric1234.

I suggest a temporary workaround: Use Auto mode or ? mode. If you want 1 CD, use a high Auto Q/Max Q respectively.

Auto and ? have not given me any trouble so far.

[telemike]

Latest test, seems to be going oversize. Might be something with doing the audio second as this encode did. I wanted audio of 96K but it looks like it did it at 160K



--------------------------------------------------------

D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 3

- Author: Tylo

- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0

--------------------------------------------------------

- 2003-11-12 21:36:10

--------------------------------------------------------

Settings:

- Output type : SVCD

- CD size : 800

- Number of CD's : 1

- Sample percent : 1.0

- Auto Q. (worst) : 40

- Maximum Q. : 64

- Adjust Q : 0.5

- Sizing pass : on=1 (-5.0 .. 1.0)%

- Audio by plugin : on=1 (Fixed bitrate, 10%, min 96 kbps)

- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2650 kbps)

- Crash recover : No

--------------------------------------------------------

- Waiting for CCE window ...

- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S

--------------------------------------------------------

- Movie length : 01:50:14 (158587 frames, 23.976 fps)

- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps

- D2S video estim. : 1809 kbps, 2 CDs

- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames

- Sample frames : 1590

--------------------------------------------------------

Calculations:

- 1 CD: video_br=817 (817) audio1_br=160 video_sz=675496220. fill=100.0% cbr=0

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- Number of CDs : 1

- Target mpv BR : 817 (max 2490) kbps, size=675496220. bytes

--------------------------------------------------------

Search for Q:

- Estim. mpv BR : 787 (Q=48, err=-3.6%, size=651417148., sample sz=6531136.)

- Estim. mpv BR : 798 (Q=47, err=-2.2%, size=659817272., sample sz=6615356.)

- Estim. mpv BR : 819 (Q=45, err=0.2%, size=677736206., sample sz=6795012.)

- Determined Q : 45 = round(45 - 0.5 + (0.2)/1.3)

--------------------------------------------------------

- Encoding Movie

- 2003-11-12 21:47:28

- Actual mpv file size:

11/12/2003 11:34 PM 683430984 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv

- OPV pass result: 101.2% on target ( 683430984 / 675496220.)

--------------------------------------------------------

- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 817 kbps.

- Actual mpv file size:

11/13/2003 01:21 AM 674569216 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv

- Sizing pass result: 99.9% on target ( 674569216 / 675496220.)

--------------------------------------------------------

- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "D:\dvd\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "D:\dvd\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\dvd\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 48000 ) -2lame( -e -b 160 -m s )

--------------------------------------------------------

- Recover:

- 2003-11-13 01:36:15

[ric1234]

Originally posted by r6d2
I've put some debug logging in the script as Tylo suggested and cannot find the source of the problem. I also have the occuring sometimes, others works OK, same as ric1234. I could only reproduce the bug in the first use of D2SRoBa after installation, because 2nd time, when recovering in the exact same context, the bug was gone.
When you say "sometimes" do you mean it comes back again in some further encodes for you ?
I was wondering if the plugin saves any parameter after first encode and would therefore miss the parameter the 1st time but find it correctly 2nd time ?
Anyway, ok for the workaround. If you want me to test anything, just let me know.
Ric

[telemike]

Return of the CCE sutdown gremlin:

After a fresh re-install last night,

1st encode went fine except for the 1-CD bug
2nd encode went find
3rd encode failed

DVD2SVCD starts CCE and then starts the encode, D2SRoba cancels the encode but then fails to close the CCE dialog box. IF I press encode again, D2SRoba will cancel the encode and hang at the CCE dialog box. If I manually close CCE and DVD2SVCD, the plugin does nothing.

:angry:


I will try going back to DVD2SVCD 113b2 and see if that works. :confused:

[r6d2]

Originally posted by ric1234
When you say "sometimes" do you mean it comes back again in some further encodes for you ?
Unlike you, I cannot reproduce the fault at will. What you say about the parameter thing makes sense in theory but I don't know which one may be.

I thought I had "fixed" it by using a ridiculous high Q for 1 CD encodes, but the strange behaviour still shows up from time to time. I'll stick with Auto mode till further notice from Tylo, which is what I generally use anyway.

[tylo]

Thanks for testing and reporting. I hope the probs are caused by some bug hiding out in the plugin, but I fear that AutoIt3 is not executing the code correctly in all cases (it is still beta). I will put out a new update which adds the debug logging, and fixes some small other issues. I would like to pinpoint where it goes wrong, so I can report to the AutoIt guys, assuming its not a logical error.

@telemike: your audio "bug" I can explain (puh). It chose br 160 because you had "Fixed bitrate" selected. It then uses D2S audio settings (but only encoded it after video). I see that it may be less confusing to rather use the settings in the "Min br" box?

ProcessWaitClose("EclCCE.exe")

it seems you are not supporting 2.5, right?
Also, I wonder if shutting down D2S first and then CCE might be possible. That way D2S would not have a chance to start pulldown if CCE does not close...The 'ProcessWaitClose()' only wait until the EclCCE process is done if it exists - otherwise it just continues, so it should work without EclCCE too. And, yes it may be possible to shuffle around these lines. Also, it may be possible to terminate CCE by 'ProcessClose()' instead of 'WinClose()', but I had problems with that when using AutoIt2.

[syzygytec]

First job using 3beta3 log for review


Total time from Rip & Convert until completion: 11/13/2003 1:08:54 AM - 11/13/2003 4:27:21 AM
Terminatrix 3 ROTM
D2S 1.2.1b3 D2SRoBa 3.0 Beta 3
FACAR 1.06.6 (Bicubic Resize)
CCE 2.67
progressive template,
Avisynth 2.5.3
no other filters,
standard 2.6x matrice
Win 2003 Server Pentium3 1.2ghz 512RAM NTFS pagefile off
--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 beta 3
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-13 01:07:44
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio by plugin : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:49:00 (156808 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1828 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 3144
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=826 (826) audio1_br=160 video_sz=675276360. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1828 (1828) audio1_br=160 video_sz=1494437271. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2594 (2830) audio1_br=160 video_sz=2120662079. fill=92.2% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2594 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1058 (Q=40, err=0.0%, size=865387242., sample sz=17351012.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1828 (max 2594) kbps, size=1494437271. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1746 (Q=16, err=-4.4%, size=1427514596., sample sz=28621664.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1881 (Q=13, err=2.9%, size=1538441692., sample sz=30845752.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1835 (Q=14, err=0.4%, size=1500754306., sample sz=30090120.)
- Determined Q : 13 = round(14 - 1.0 + (0.4)/2.5)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-13 02:01:48
- Actual mpv file size:
11/13/2003 03:37 AM 1485727080 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 99.4% on target ( 1485727080 / 1494437271.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "D:\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "D:\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 160 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-13 04:10:03
cd sizes
1) 824,916 Playing Time: 57:06
2) 816,592 Playing Time: 51:54
This can be compared to log I posted yesterday in the old D2Sroba topic same job using 2.70rc2

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Thanks for testing and reporting. I hope the probs are caused by some bug hiding out in the plugin, but I fear that AutoIt3 is not executing the code correctly in all cases (it is still beta).
Just saw this at the Autoit 3 page:
AutoIt 3 Development
Note: This is beta software and any and all features are subject to change. It is not recommended that you use this software for serious projects until it is released. v3 has proved stable so far, but if any syntax/features are changed you may end up rewriting scripts in order to get them to work a later version.
:)
I see that it may be less confusing to rather use the settings in the "Min br" box?
IMHO, yes. Otherwise that option does not make much sense.

Originally I thought that the point of that setting was to use Min.br but, when undersizing and not having checked conditional second pass, you would increase the audio to fill the CDs better, if possible. IMHO that would be an interesting feature for 1-pass freaks, and maybe quite straightforward to implement.

[pacohaas]

Could there be an option NOT to automatically switch to CBR mode if Q=1 is still too small to fill CD's? Personally I'd rather have 2 640MB mpg's with the best Q possible than 2 800MB mpg's that are just "taking up space". It leaves room for fingerprints and smudges on the edges of the cd's. I say just make this an option since some people feel better with full CD's.

I'm not a CCE expert, so correct me if Q=1 is not the best Q possible, or if CBR encoding would have some particular advantage over it.

[DDogg]

I have always felt like Q1 is the same thing as CBR, but I never tested it. You might want to do a couple of small snips and run it through bitrate viewer to see.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by pacohaas
I'm not a CCE expert, so correct me if Q=1 is not the best Q possible, or if CBR encoding would have some particular advantage over it.
@pacohass,

Q=1 is indeed the best quality possible. But it is quite different than CBR. OPV (Q mode) has variable bitrate, while CBR does not.

In theory, to achieve the same quality level with CBR you need to encode at CBR=max_BR_obtained_with_Q=1, and you'll get a *huge* encode.

Regarding your other question, CBR mode in D2Sroba does (should) not fill the CDs if the spec limit is reached, and you set the threshold in "Max Avg Offset".

[DDogg]

hmm, but inversely, doesn't Q=1 = the constant max bitrate specified? I remember doing some tests years ago, but now I forget what the results were ... Altheimer's ... Memory is the first thing to go and I forgot what the second one is.

[Trahald]

hmm, but inversely, doesn't Q=1 = the constant max bitrate specified? I remember doing some tests years ago, but now I forget what the results were ... Altheimer's ... Memory is the first thing to go and I forgot what the second one is.

i would think on a svcd the output will be cbr or close to (because at 480x480 the needed bitrate to acheive q1 will be above 2500 (or whatever you set the max at) for most frames...
BUT 9800 max , for example, you would still have vbr output.. since even at q1 mpeg does not output uncompressed frames. all q1 is trying to do is match the output to the origional.. if it can compress it still will... however, doesnt hurt to test. i'll try it tonite. at q1 and cbr(@max bitrate) at both 2500 and 9800 max bitrates

[pacohaas]

well i did an encode with Q=1, according to Bitrate viewer, CCE is going above the specified bitrate even when I check "Calc. bitrate as max" in DVD2SVCD. I set everything to 2450 (max bitrate, minaverage, maxaverage) and yet got values in Bitrate viewer of >3000, with the max at 3287, and average 2206. Now, i like that average, makes more sense than a CBR 2450 encode to me for this 80 minute film with 2 audio( 224kbps main + 80kbps directors comments), but it's breaking the specs here when it disobeys what i have set as the max bitrate. Indeed i see some parts that drop below the minimum 300 even. When the CCE (2.67 btw) window pops up, i can see that it says it's doing everything right (Q=1 300-2450), but yet this is the outcome. Anybody know what gives?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by pacohaas
When the CCE (2.67 btw) window pops up, i can see that it says it's doing everything right (Q=1 300-2450), but yet this is the outcome. Anybody know what gives?
According to the lovely search button ;) this has come out before. The anwer is you have to take BR Viewer's numbers with a grain of salt. CCE is right and local BRs are compliant.

BTW, just to clarify, "Pure Q=1" requires MAX=infinity, otherwise if constrained by SVCD specs its outcome will be, as w00kie and DDogg say, more CBR like.

[Trahald]

bitrate viewer is not extremely reliable as far as its bitrate graph goes. it idenifies perfect cbr streams as vbr (ie cbr svcds and even vcds identified as being cbr by everything else).. really the only thing you could use is the average bitrate it gets and take for granted the encoder did not exceed the max during the encode.

i did short tests using the d2sroba sampling avs made during an encode.. results...

stream bitrate bv avg calc avg
Q 1 @ max 2500 kbps stream 34541 KB 2015 2101.35

CBR 2500 kbps stream 40171 KB 2344 2443.86

Q 1 @ max 9000 kbps stream 71973 KB 4194 4378.58

CBR 9000 kbps stream 144615 KB 8436 8797.87

bv avg is what bitrate viewer got as average and calc avg is what i got using calc.exe. this is a 3 second clip, so probably not enough full gops for a good test. ill do a longer clip and report back in a bit

[pacohaas]

good to hear, i was just using the tool that was suggested above by DDogg. I want to trust CCE, sure, but watching it encode, i see it go slightly higher than it should at times, and even with a CBR encode, it doesn't show the "current bitrate" as always the same.

But, considering the CCE settings are used and specs not broken, back to my first question, Could there possibly be a checkbox that would just allow CQ encodes such as this one to continue instead of wasting bits on a huge CBR encode?

It would be nice though, to have a tool to inspect the bitrates as BV is supposed to, don't you agree?

[tylo]

Could there possibly be a checkbox that would just allow CQ encodes such as this one to continue instead of wasting bits on a huge CBR encode?The whole idea with D2SRoBa is to get out the best quality, bounded only by either a fixed number of CDs, or a Q limit. What you ask for is an option not to fill the CD as much as possible under certain circumstances (for some reason). It is not wasting bits when encoding e.g. CBR 2560 vs. OPV max 2560, giving avg 2200, when both fit on same number of CDs. The former will give an overall higher quality encoding. If you don't want to fill you CDs, use some other tool.

[Trahald]

It would be nice though, to have a tool to inspect the bitrates as BV is supposed to, don't you agree?

yerp... if im feeling adventurous i'll play with visual studio (which means i probably wont do it or i'll take forever ;) )

anyhow.. here is the second test results are pretty much the same


stream *size bv avg calc avg
Q 1 @ max 2500 kbps stream 296591 KB 2015 2165.22

CBR 2500 kbps stream 334757 KB 2342 2443.85

Q 1 @ max 9000 kbps stream 573169 KB 4009 4184.35

CBR 9000 kbps stream 1205123 KB 8431 8797.85


*my other chart should read size where it says bitrate

this was ~1095 mins worth of video. an accurate bitrate viewer would really solidify the conclusion.. but assuming that some of the frames would need to be above 2500 to hit q1, the conclusion you have to make with a 2165 average is that there are frames also being generated below 2165 (for the math to add up) which would indicate a vbr stream. the 9000 max prooves it further since the filesize came out larger (the frames that were truncated by the 2500 max were allowed the room to hit the bitrate needed for q1)

if anyone can find a good bitrate graph that would be great.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by pacohaas
[B]good to hear, i was just using the tool that was suggested above by DDogg. I want to trust CCE, sure, but watching it encode, i see it go slightly higher than it should at times, and even with a CBR encode, it doesn't show the "current bitrate" as always the same.
This has something to do with BIAS and CBR implementation in CCE. It is not absolutely CBR, just "very CBR".

Surpasing the spec limits momentarily is not unusual. TMPGEnc also does it. But rest assured that VBV is respected, that's what the encoder has to do well.

[telemike]

Tylo-

can you put a ink backup for version 2.70RC2 as the last stable version for newbies to use until version 3 is stable and debugged? Thanks.

[Trahald]

yeah.. r6 put it well.. cbr will just be 'very cbr' any encoder software/hardware obligation is only to keep it vbv safe so there are no overflows underflows within the decided "constant" bitrate.

i got another bitrate viewer. ( http://www.elecard.com/download/#StreamEye <edit - this program installs its own mpeg2 decoder.. install at your own risk>) it picks up the average better than bitrate viewer, but still denotes cbr streams as (slightly)vbr. in fairness, a bitrate viewer will never show a cbr stream as cbr because at a minimum the b frames will TEND to be smaller than I frames (although not always) and encoders have no obligation to make all the frames or even GOPS all the same bitrate.

nice details here:
http://www.gadegast.de/frank/mpegfaq/mpe1736.html

[DDogg]

tylo, or anybody else, where are we with open issues? I don't use the audio stuff or the auto mode or the bitrate adjust so everything seems pretty good to me, but it sounds like that is not the general opinion? If we can list them then maybe they can get checked off when time permits. Now it just seems like there is a bunch of maybe/kinda/sorta stuff floating around.

[Trahald]

I use the audio after (i only ever get one track) and auto mode and the adjust. i dont set vbr pass (the size has been fine with this version so far) ive done an encode a night and no problems

ive been shying away from using disks=X option because i hear there are problems? i just use auto and put the auto q really high
as r6 suggested. tonight i'll try disks=2 and report how it goes.

sofar... no issues myself.

:)

[ric1234]

Also, I would like to propose an update on the status of the followings with D2SRoBa v3 :
- is it now possible to minimize DVD2SVCD ?
- is it possible to iconize DVD2SVCD ?
- is it possible to minimize CCE ?
- is it possible to minimize D2SRoBa log window ?
- is it possible to run the whole in a separate user session in XP ?

Can somebody confirm the statut of these topics ?

[tylo]

I don't think the state is bad at all. I am not able to get any of the problems seen so far, but the reported problems are:

1. Sometimes when choosing a fixed number of CDs, it still compute number CDs. I believe this is an AutoIt3 related problem, but I have no proof of that yet. (reported by ric, r6d2). Earlier the oposite prob also did occur: the Auto mode did not compute num CDs, but that seems to be gone.

2. Problems with breaking CCE. Reported by telemike.

If anyone has seen other probs, please report.

The only thing I can do about these probs so far is to put out a version with more debug output in the log, to get more info about where/why it fails. I'll do that tonight :)

/Add:Also, I would like to propose an update on the status of the followings with D2SRoBa v3 :
1 - is it now possible to minimize DVD2SVCD ?
2 - is it possible to iconize DVD2SVCD ?
3 - is it possible to minimize CCE ?
4 - is it possible to minimize D2SRoBa log window ? (/add)
5 - is it possible to run the whole in a separate user session in XP ?

1 - yes, 2 - yes, 3 - yes, 4 - yes, 5 - don't think so.
I'll try to add a minimize option to D2SRoBa for the next (debug-enabled) beta.

[ric1234]

Tylo, minor point but do you plan to do something to allow the use of a second audio track in "Audio encoding after Video" ? I think that was on hold too.

[tylo]

@ric: True. I forgot the 2'nd audio thing. I never use two audio tracks myself, so therefore I haven't tested with it. I am sure it's a small issue to fix, though. (btw: thanks for PM's)

PS: I only want two audio for animation movies (for the kids), like Finding Nemo, and then I create separate copies with different audio for max player compability + better video quality. When I think of it, that could be a great option in D2SRoBa. What do you think?

// It could be done like this: D2SRoBa creates the first audio after video creation, and then recover, as today. After D2S is done, it moves the created files (mp2,mpg, cue,bin) etc. and creates the second audio, recover again from muxing.

/Add: on second though, it may be difficult to get this to work by selecting both audio's through D2S. I think the second audio should be selected from D2SRoBa only, and let it extract that audio track itself... Oh, well, it was just a thought.

[ric1234]

In my case, I have used 2nd audio in some SVCDs when Q was really good and I could afford a 2nd low bitrate audio track for director's comments. So it was kind of a bonus ;)
Personnaly, I wouldn't go for a 2nd set of discs just to have a different language, but some might like it...

[DDogg]

<cough> Maybe I can get away with this without wearing asbestos drawers...Everytime we get close to a stable release, more individual enthusiasms pop up. Nothing wrong with that at all except it seems like it always keeps us from getting a stable release candidate for the average Joe to use without problems.

<putting on flameproof underwear> IMO, and certainly sort of expressed before, adding the audio caused a train-wreck full of nasty old worms that delayed a stable release by nearly two months, IIRC. Personally I have never needed it and I suspect most do not. Is it a good feature? Sure it is. Was it worth all the damn grief it caused? Certainly not to me, and I suspect a ton of others.

I fear I may be sounding a bit prickish, but I have been involved with quite a few commercial devel projects and I sure think there should be a double solid release for the average user and a clearly marked experimental test copy for us that like to play around.

Having only one version available on the web-page tends to cause less experienced users unnecessary grief. I am afraid a lot of people have been put off from this great piece of work because of that.

OK, I got my days dose of grumpy out. Hope nobody minds my normal bluntness :) /add: I aspire to being called a "curmudgeon" :)

[tylo]

@DDogg: My main goal is getting this plugin stable, and great for everyone just by using the default settings. I can't agree more with you that it is much better with a stable simple version, than a buggy one with some extra features. V2 never got to a release version because I didn't feel it was bug-free enough. I hope and think V3 will - and soon. :)

ps: I'm honestly getting a little fed up with it (like I said I would), but I'll try to hang on until it's stable. :D

[DDogg]

Oh man you definitely get an A+++ grade for perseverance. I think I would have turned into an ax murderer by now if I was doing it (not that I could) :) Well, like you said, the light is appearing at the end of the tunnel so maybe the end is in sight!

[tylo]

Yeah, thanks - there has been some sleepless nights...

GREAT NEWS: Found the (1) main bug just now: A silly logical error. No more lame excuses like "AutoIt3 is beta", or so. :o . Well, we're getting there :D

@telemike: I'll put in some more log in connection with detecting/closing the CCE window.


/Add: v3.0 Release Candidate 1 is uploaded:
- Fixed major logical error
- Fixed two audio after video encoding
- Changed: 'Use Min br' instead of 'Fixed bitrate' (which used D2S settings).
:)
Info: Beta 3 had about 200 downloads.
http://home.no.net/tylo

[DDogg]

Test results v3.0 RC1. I used AUTO and checked all the stuff. The second disk was 691,005 KB so something is not quite right?

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 RC1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-18 07:14:54
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 32
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 0.6
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio after vid : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:34:21 (135740 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2000 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1368
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=928 (928) audio1_br=128 video_sz=656733400. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1936 (1936) audio1_br=192 video_sz=1370081748. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2530 (2976) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1790447739. fill=86.1% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2562 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1396 (Q=32, err=-1.#%, size=988166561., sample sz=9958832.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1936 (max 2562) kbps, size=1370081748. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1858 (Q=16, err=-4.0%, size=1314926081., sample sz=13251944.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1958 (Q=13, err=1.1%, size=1385811335., sample sz=13966332.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1925 (Q=14, err=-0.6%, size=1362584712., sample sz=13732252.)
- Determined Q : 13 = round(14 - 0.6 + (-0.6)/1.7)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-18 07:27:02
- Actual mpv file size:
11/18/2003 08:25 AM 1413197436 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 103.1% on target ( 1413197436 / 1370081748.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 1936 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
11/18/2003 09:25 AM 1368708108 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 99.9% on target ( 1368708108 / 1370081748.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "G:\hunted2\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "G:\hunted2\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "G:\hunted2\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-18 09:38:55

As an aside comment, I have lately reduced the adjust Q to .6 yet I still see oversize on nearly all encodes done so far. Next I think i'll reduce it to 0. Might be something to do with my filter setup.

[tylo]

Thanks. Well, removing bugs often has some side effects. Your log looks fine, but I guess this is project file settings/muxing related.
As an aside comment, I have lately reduced the adjust Q to .6 yet I still see oversize on nearly all encodes done so far. Next I think i'll reduce it to 0. Might be something to do with my filter setup Could be, but I think a more likely reason is that you use GOP lenght 12, and not 15. I think Adjust Q. = 0.3 should do.
BTW: why are you downsampling audio?

[DDogg]

I think Adjust Q. = 0.3 should do. Will tryBTW: why are you downsampling audio? 'Cause another plugin I was testing changed all my settings and did not restore them :devil:

/later: Hmm, started from scratch as before, but changed to .3 and got -

OPV pass result: 103.5% on target ( 1519484276 / 1468450221.)

That confuses me :)

[tylo]

My advice was no good. You must go down to 0.0 as you said yourself - sorry. round(14 - 0.3 + (-0.6)/1.7) is still 13, but using 0.0, you will get Q=14.
I just did an encode myself, and the images got correct sizes.

1. Did your first encode give a correct first CD image size?
2. Did your second encode give correct CD images sizes?
As I said, you log cannot tell why you got a litte too small (second) image.

@all: Please report so I can fix any bugs before I do a final release.

[DDogg]

1st image on both of the above encodes was a perfect 814,805/813,750 mpg. Second disk on 1st was 691,005 second encode was ... Ah, wtf!? .... it is perfect, more or less...811,170mpg/821,976bin ???? Now the only thing I did different (that I know of) is changed the audio down-sampling you pointed out, and from .6 to .3...So what in the hell would cause the dif? ..... Argghh, I'll post the log:

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 RC1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-18 13:30:04
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 32
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 0.3
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio after vid : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:34:21 (135740 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2171 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1368
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1014 (1014) audio1_br=128 video_sz=717594469. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=2075 (2075) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1468450221. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2530 (3233) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1790447739. fill=79.8% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2530 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1685 (Q=32, err=-1.#%, size=1192531863., sample sz=12018444.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 2075 (max 2530) kbps, size=1468450221. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1909 (Q=22, err=-8.0%, size=1351241294., sample sz=13617932.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2072 (Q=15, err=-0.1%, size=1466927495., sample sz=14783828.)
- Determined Q : 15 = round(15 - 0.3 + (-0.1)/1.1)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-18 13:40:07
- Actual mpv file size:
11/18/2003 02:40 PM 1519484276 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 103.5% on target ( 1519484276 / 1468450221.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 2075 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
11/18/2003 03:39 PM 1466931100 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 99.9% on target ( 1466931100 / 1468450221.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "G:\hunted3\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "G:\hunted3\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "G:\hunted3\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-18 15:47:58

[Trahald]

i tried a batch encode last night. i set d2sroba my usual settings plus set batch mode. then in d2s i did '(batch)' button. after d2s copies hte files, i hit the ok from d2s (or whatever you do after that, i forget) and d2s closed but then roba threw up an autoit error (didnt write which one .. sorry) what i can tell is it never edited the batch file to add d2sroba to that line.. the batch file just has the line that d2s added. sorry im a little vague.. but the error is easy to reproduce. just try a chapter in batch mode

oh and.. great work on the plugin, tylo! it helps so much to only have to do 1 pass and get great quality. keep up the great work.

[tylo]

- Movie length : 01:34:21 (135740 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2000 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
compare with:- Movie length : 01:34:21 (135740 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2171 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
@DDogg: As you see the "D2S video estim" line is different, which is the bitrate calculated by D2S (explained in detail in an earlier post). This is written to the project files before D2SRoBa comes into play, so only D2S can explain the difference. telemike has reported this happening to him, and is therefore using D2S v1.1.3, where this does not seem to occur.

/Add: RC2 breaks D2S in a kinder way (emulate a user break) compared to a kill process in earlier versions. This gives D2S a chance to save back latest state of project and ini files during termination, thus maybe eliminate the above problem. But I haven't checked if D2S really writes back files when terminating an active session.

@w00kie: thanks, I have fixed the broken batch functionality. RC2 is online. http://home.no.net/tylo

[DDogg]

I wonder if it is just that darn "calc bitrate as max" checkmark staying on? I think I unchecked it on the second encode. I did not think much about it as I was assuming you were dealing with it. Are you? This was what I sent you the PM about.

[tylo]

Yeah, I was about to ask you if you had changed that setting, but it slipped my mind. The plugin doesn't uncheck the "Calc. bitrate as max", but it will in the next - maybe release version. It must be unchecked! I am pretty sure this caused the problem for both you and telemike.

[DDogg]

Ah, heck! I should have caught that a long time ago! Sorry! That would explain SO much ... even on restarts it is checked because of the bug of not saving the state of the checkmark. Damn!!!


Btw, if this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65002) is correct, supporting CC 2.5 is going to become more important.

[tylo]

Now, I am confused. The setting is unchecked by default. If I check it, it is still unchecked when I restart D2S ..?

Interesting thread, btw. Looks like we should get 2.50 up and running with the plugin soon, although it wasn't all conclusive. Maybe 2.66.01.07 is the best choice?

[DDogg]

Ya know something, tylo? I think I am losing it :) I'm running a later test version than B3 with the exact opposite problem. That is, that checkbox stays checked all the time. I forgot I was running a test version as it is one I've been using for a few weeks. Sometimes I really do worry about Alzheimer's :scared: Sorry for the confusion. :o

[ditto_n]

tylo if im not mistaken 2.67.00.11 is the newest version, is the newest version going to work with it?

[DDogg]

ditto_n, 2.67.00.22 (yep, 11 versions past 2.67.00.11) is the latest beta that I know of. The latest version most folk are using on this forum is 2.67.00.13. The plugin has always worked with all flavors of 2.67 that I have tried.

[manolito]

Seems the Newton Raphson Method could use some additional code to handle special cases like very short DVDs.

--------------------------------------------------------

D2SRoBa v3.0 RC2
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-19 19:33:25
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 740
- Number of CD's : ?
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 128
- Adjust Q : 2.6
- Sizing pass : on=0 (-2.0 .. 2.0)%
- Audio after vid : on=0 (Use Min br, 10%, min 192 bps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S

--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 00:22:29 (40435 frames, 29.97 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2230 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 750, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 810
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2230 (2230) audio1_br=192 video_sz=376084626. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=2562 (4668) audio1_br=192 video_sz=432075701. fill=56.8% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2562 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 930 (Q=128, err=?%, size=156844470., sample sz=3141932.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 2230 (max 2562) kbps, size=376084626. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1099 (Q=94, err=-50.7%, size=185377203., sample sz=3713504.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1372 (Q=65, err=-38.5%, size=231487879., sample sz=4637200.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2470 (Q=1, err=10.8%, size=416590922., sample sz=8345212.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2456 (Q=15, err=10.1%, size=414319374., sample sz=8299708.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 724 (Q=241, err=-67.5%, size=122160225., sample sz=2447132.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1787 (Q=44, err=-19.9%, size=301533679., sample sz=6040368.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2452 (Q=16, err=10.0%, size=413615506., sample sz=8285608.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2470 (Q=0, err=10.8%, size=416590922., sample sz=8345212.)
- Determined Q : 197 = round(0 - 2.6 + (10.8)/0.1)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 2562 (max 2562) kbps, size=432075701. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------

========================================================
- Selected num CDs : 1 (Q=197)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-19 19:50:47


Version 2.70 RC2 handles this DVD perfectly, it encodes it with a Q of 1 without any passes to determine the correct Q.

There is a funny Freudian typo in the version 3 GUI. The "Batch Prepare" checkbox reads "Bach Prepare". Is this an intentional reference to one of the spiritual fathers of this method?

Anyway, this plugin is great, thank you very very much Tylo!

[tylo]

I was hoping this would be the last RC, but I see there may be some more work when I look at manolitos log. :(
Hehe, the typo wasn't intentional, but you're right...

Good news: Got CCE 250 to work (bonus on my post no 250) --> RC3 online. :)

[DDogg]

Excellent! :thanks: Testing (maniacal laugh):devil: :)

[jsoto]

Hi,
First post in this thread, excellent plugin!.

I've done a DVD output coding last night (BTW two RC from that!. Impossible to follow tylo's productivity). No issues at all. Everything works fine.

@tylo: a BIG thank you

Log for information only:

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 RC1
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-19 01:11:09
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 4200
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 0.6
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio after vid : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=0 (total 8010 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:08:17 (192444 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (256 + 384) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 3833 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 750, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 3855
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=3961 (3961) audio1_br=128 video_sz=3811353420. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 3961 (max 8000) kbps, size=3811353420. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 4984 (Q=10, err=25.8%, size=4795879602., sample sz=96070108.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3114 (Q=25, err=-21.4%, size=2996889128., sample sz=60033088.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3759 (Q=18, err=-5.1%, size=3617122312., sample sz=72457476.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4017 (Q=16, err=1.4%, size=3865646141., sample sz=77435856.)
- Determined Q : 16 = round(16 - 0.6 + (1.4)/3.3)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-19 02:00:07
- Actual mpv file size:
19/11/2003 03:55 3774584624 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL.mpv
- OPV pass result: 99.0% on target ( 3774584624 / 3811353420.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-19 03:55:10


More info (could interest some users, I hope)
I am using tylo's plugin with mdvdauth (D2S in SVCD output mode), I've to address a minimum issue in mdvdauth when D2SRoBa restarts D2S and recovers from muxing (D2S stops because of bbmpeg dll warning :devil: ), and, may be, to do a general improvement in mdvdauth.
And more...
Using IFOUpdate and some manual work, single PGC DVDs are very easy to be full backuped :) (this is the reason to use a 4200 MB CD as you can see in the log)


jsoto.

[syzygytec]

I'm on my first use of 3rc2....

Doing a dvd encode..not happy

2 runs same movie
First time q of 7 target bitrate 6066 determined, finished 1 pass 98% on target

-Had to redo movie total biterate to high (my mistake seeking answer to that now)

Now second encode

Determines q of 4 max bitrate of 6099, comes out 109% over and is currently running 2nd pass

First try I had maxbitrate unselected, this time select with 8500 plugged in.

First time oversize set to default 1.0 this time 0.0 (seems best idea to me for dvd anyway)

In my understanding I don't think these 2 changes made the diference but maybe, I will post the second log here in this post later. I would not want to complain especially with my nominal understanding of it (and Im not) but Im not confortable at all with 3x I don't trust it and I wish I didn't feel that way.

[DDogg]

CCE 2.50 does get killed ok as well as D2S, but no relaunch of CCE takes place. Sorry :) [wrong, it does work fine, but see later post.]


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 RC3
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-19 16:17:27
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 32
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 0.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio after video : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:34:21 (135740 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2139 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames


syzygytec! :logfile: Also, set your Max @ 8500 for DVD and make absolutely sure you do *not* have "Calc bitrate as Max" checked in the CCE section of the Encoder Tab

[jsoto]

I've to address a minimum issue in mdvdauth ....
Well, I feel stupid... D2S checks bbmpeg.dll, not the exe, so it is enough to have a copy of the right bbmpeg.dll (obviously unused) in the same folder. No more wrong dll warnings.
jsoto

[DDogg]

tylo, OK, I finally remember all this old stuff about 2.5. CCE 2.5 does work fine as long as "Add ReSampleAudio" is checked. In case you do not know the history, when D2S *first* loads the avs, whether Add ReSampleAudio is checked or not, it has to add the ReSampleAudio() to the script because on the first load the audio is active in CCE 2.5. Without the statement CCE 2.5 will crash and vanish.

Now here is the important part, once the avs has been loaded and the ecl saved with no audio, the ReSampleAudio() is then *removed* from the avs script if the user did not check "Add ReSampleAudio".

This kinda screws you :) When you "see" the script the first time, if the add audio was unchecked, the d2s avs script will have had it removed, so when you just add the range statement to the script to build D2SRoBa.avs and load it in CCE 2.5 it will do the old poof and vanish act, which is what it was doing to me, just too quick to see very well.

Forcing the Add ReSampleAudio checkbox is an option, but then that would go against the users wishes ... presuming they turned it off in the first place for a valid reason...of which there really is not any except old wives tales...:)

Still, It would be cleaner to add it on the first load if it is not too much of a problem. In the meantime people using RC3 for 2.5 need to make sure it is checked.

I think all this is correct but my memory is not what it once was :)


/Later: Sweeeeeettttt

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 RC3
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-19 21:16:51
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 32
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 0.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio after video : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:34:21 (135740 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2139 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1368
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1014 (1014) audio1_br=128 video_sz=717594469. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=2075 (2075) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1468450221. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2530 (3233) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1790447739. fill=79.8% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2530 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1629 (Q=32, err=?%, size=1153305384., sample sz=11623116.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 2075 (max 2530) kbps, size=1468450221. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1904 (Q=20, err=-8.2%, size=1347672760., sample sz=13581968.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2097 (Q=13, err=1.1%, size=1484215293., sample sz=14958056.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2067 (Q=14, err=-0.4%, size=1463260530., sample sz=14746872.)
- Determined Q : 14 = round(14 - 0.0 + (-0.4)/1.4)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-19 21:21:23
- Actual mpv file size:
11/19/2003 09:58 PM 1470364208 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 100.1% on target ( 1470364208 / 1468450221.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "G:\hunted6\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "G:\hunted6\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "G:\hunted6\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-19 22:07:51

[tylo]

..., it has to add the ReSampleAudio() to the script because on the first load the audio is active in CCE 2.5.I wonder, if you check the "Use CCE template", with a template that doesn't have audio, is that a way around it?

I think RC3 broke a small issue: when using 2.66+, and the EclCCE "Hide cancel button" thing is on, it won't deal with the warning dialog it pops up. Just so you know - will be fixed.

[DDogg]

I don't think a template is the best solution as many CCE 2.5 users don't use them and are not familiar with them.

Tylo can't you

1> Just insert the two lines below if they do not exist in the d2s script for the first load? I don't know if you can actually parse the script?
2> If not, can you tell if the ReSampleAudio box is checked?
3> If not, then just tell folks if they want to use 2.5 then they gotta check it. Maybe you could warn if they do not have it checked by peaking at the INI?

I'm sure your main concern is not to break anything at this stage. I think you are too close to take the risk. Maybe 3 is the best alternative. It will work for certain, with or without a warning. :)

Import("G:\nick\ResampleAudio.avs")
ResampleAudio(44100)


I noticed without eclcce their is no priority control for CCE 2.5. Not a biggy, but wanted to make sure it was mentioned to you.


/Later: Did another movie ... Whooee! Twice in a row. Its not a fluke:

- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-20 00:06:23
- Actual mpv file size:
11/20/2003 12:50 AM 1471353068 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 100.5% on target ( 1471353068 / 1463461993.)


/more Later: Hmm, tylo, can you check on your end and actually burn and play a CCE 2.5 encoding. Something is not right... See Dar flag (with or without template use). I think it may be a problem with d2s, or maybe I just forgot something about using 2.5. Just being fuzzy in case somebody sees something obvious that I am missing.

/Again: Oh, I see what it is. If you ever set d2d manually as anamorphic it seems to become a "sticky" setting. I had not noticed that. That is why it was overriding the 4:3 DAR. In d2s mode just set it back to 4:3 and kill d2s to save the settings. After that it is auto setting again.

[tylo]

Now that CCE 2.5 is supported again, this may be useful:

I have been trying this tiny (<50kb) excellent shell utility
http://www.veridicus.com/tummy/programming/powermenu/
It extends the system menus (upper left on window click, or ALT+SPACE), to include priority settings on any app + minimize to tray. On XP it works nicely with CCE 2.5, but I have noticed that on my W2K system, CCE 2.5 behaves differently.
- On XP, CCE always starts with lowest priority, on W2K it starts with 'normal' (?).
- On XP, I can minimize the CCE main window, on W2K, I can't access the main window at all.
- It is posible to minimize the progress window too, by right clicking upper left corner, but DONT do that using D2SRoBa - it thinks encoding is done.

Another small CCE 2.5 hint: you can add avi,avs files using the keyboard only: 'SHIFT+F10 a' brings up the file open dialog.

In the next release, D2SRoBa hide the Cancel button in the CCE progress window, just like D2S.

[manolito]

Could it really be true that CCE 2.50 gives you better encodes than CCE 2.67? I switched over to version 2.67 mainly because matrices seem to have no effect in CCE 2.50.

What is the final word about this? The D2S FAQ tell me that I can patch in different matrices into CCE 2.50 and they will actually be used. I remember reading a different FAQ saying that CCE 2.50 will not stream matrices into the MPG stream by itself, you have to use a program called "Restream" for this.

I also remember that in one of the older posts here someone quoted Bach himself stating that matrices have no effect in CCE, and I guess he was referring to version 2.50.

So I am a little confused now. CCE 2.67 has not given me any problems so far, even if it's beta. Should I go back to the latest stable release 2.66? Or is version 2.50 the one to use?

[telemike]

Terminator 3 Backup

D2S version 121b3

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 RC2
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-21 21:25:44
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-6.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio after vid : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2650 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:49:00 (156808 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (224 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1766 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1575
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=859 (859) audio1_br=128 video_sz=702254713. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1862 (1862) audio1_br=128 video_sz=1522233150. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2522 (2865) audio1_br=128 video_sz=2061800217. fill=88.6% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2522 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 940 (Q=40, err=?%, size=769284716., sample sz=7726796.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1862 (max 2522) kbps, size=1522233150. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1715 (Q=11, err=-7.9%, size=1402298003., sample sz=14084864.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2006 (Q=5, err=7.7%, size=1640710678., sample sz=16479512.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1845 (Q=8, err=-0.9%, size=1508952532., sample sz=15156116.)
- Determined Q : 7 = round(8 - 1.0 + (-0.9)/2.9)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-21 22:21:34
- Actual mpv file size:
11/22/2003 12:44 AM 1495211092 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 98.2% on target ( 1495211092 / 1522233150.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-22 00:44:47


Why is the calculation using an audio bitrate of 128 when I wanted 224?

1 CD: video_br=859 (859) audio1_br=128 video_sz=702254713. fill=100.0% cbr=0

[ddogg edit]
Grrrrr, {size=1} Edit your own mess :){/size} (change curly brackets to square.) Like this: Edit your own mess

[Trahald]

mike - the audio will encode at what you pick in d2s

- D2S audio setting : (224 + 0) kbps

and if you check your audio log you'll see it is at 224.. however it looks like the calculations are based on the min bitrates setting from ds2roba. may lead to an oversized encode (i always use encode audio after and it works fine. i only turned that off to test for you) Something tylo may want to look at

btw. did a 4-ep dvd using batch mode.. all 4 came out perfect

[tylo]

.. however it looks like the calculations are based on the min bitrates setting from ds2robaThanks guys - it's fixed. New release coming up real soon. :)

[manolito]

Got another funny bug in 3.00 RC3. Obviously the plugin got it right on the very first try and got so confused about it that it completely quit. The log window stayed there, but the AutoIt Taskbar icon disappeared as soon as I went over it with the mouse. Happened three times in a row...

--------------------------------------------------------

D2SRoBa v3.0 RC3
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-23 15:04:51
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 820
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 128
- Adjust Q : 2.2
- Sizing pass : on=0 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio after video : on=1 (Use Min br, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:56:36 (174922 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1795 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 750, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 3510
--------------------------------------------------------

Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=826 (826) audio1_br=128 video_sz=722427860. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 826 (max 2626) kbps, size=722427860. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 826 (Q=48, err=-1.#%, size=723270874., sample sz=14513216.)
-----------------------------------------------------------

[kru]

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 RC3
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-23 00:12:23
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-0.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio after video : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:26:11 (129277 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1253 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 750, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 2595
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1253 (1253) audio1_br=128 video_sz=809920405. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 1253 (max 2626) kbps, size=809920405. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1537 (Q=31, err=22.7%, size=993618937., sample sz=19945088.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1268 (Q=45, err=1.2%, size=820146440., sample sz=16462944.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1253 (Q=46, err=-1.#%, size=810547162., sample sz=16270256.)
- Determined Q : 45 = round(46 - 1.0 + (-1.#)/1.2)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-23 00:37:44
- Actual mpv file size:
23.11.2003 05:24 772867760 Encoded_Video_TMPGEnc_PAL.mpv
- OPV pass result: 95.4% on target ( 772867760 / 809920405.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 1253 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
23.11.2003 10:12 809512500 Encoded_Video_TMPGEnc_PAL.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 99.9% on target ( 809512500 / 809920405.)
- No Audio 1 ()
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-23 10:12:51


No audio????

[telemike]

The Italian Job

Need to work on the adjust Q


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0 RC2
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-23 07:21:51
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-6.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio after vid : on=1 (Use Min br, 10%, min 160 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2650 kbps)
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:50:31 (159004 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1834 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1594
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=813 (813) audio1_br=160 video_sz=673956519. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1802 (1802) audio1_br=160 video_sz=1493812604. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2490 (2791) audio1_br=160 video_sz=2064147272. fill=89.9% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2490 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 851 (Q=40, err=?%, size=706223149., sample sz=7079820.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1802 (max 2490) kbps, size=1493812604. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1696 (Q=9, err=-5.9%, size=1406359457., sample sz=14098620.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1906 (Q=5, err=5.8%, size=1580350133., sample sz=15842860.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1802 (Q=7, err=-1.#%, size=1493946122., sample sz=14976668.)
- Determined Q : 6 = round(7 - 1.0 + (-1.#)/2.9)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-23 07:50:18
- Actual mpv file size:
11/23/2003 09:54 AM 1530232780 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 102.4% on target ( 1530232780 / 1493812604.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 1802 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
11/23/2003 12:00 PM 1493198008 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 1493198008 / 1493812604.)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "D:\dvd\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "D:\dvd\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\dvd\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 128 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-23 12:24:01

[Trahald]

kru.. can you post your dvd2svcd log?

[tylo]

@manolito: that is an interesting one, thanks - working on it now. /Later - it's fixed.

@kru: D2SRoBa expects the existens of Encoded_Audio_1.mp2.ini (created by BeSweetLater.bat if 'Audio after video' was checked), and prints this message if not. However, if Encoded_Audio_1.mp2 existed (e.g. if your first run did not have 'Audio after video' checked), the muxing should work OK, and the message can be ignored. I will check for existens of the mp2 file as well before printing.
BTW: I am not sure how you are using TMPGEnc, (Encoded_Video_TMPGEnc_PAL.mpv) but thats a different matter. (ps: I'll look at your autoit problem when I find the time).

@telemike: Yes, the adjust Q should be more moderate on lower Q's because then one Q step means a bigger bitrate change. I am still thinking of how to modify in the Q adjust function.

So, the double line shift in the log: some have it, some not. Which editor do you load it in. (notepad?). Can you give me a clue?

[Krizzz989]

maybe an option for half cd? for anime/30min tv eps?
thanks for the plugin, love it :D

(yes i could type it in manually, but that takes so much effort)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Krizzz989
(yes i could type it in manually, but that takes so much effort)[/B]
You're kidding, aren't you? :)

Just type 400 as CD size and please report if that works.

[telemike]

@tylo: I am using notepad. What can I use to post logs that are "cleaner". Sorry Ddogg!

So far, everything seems to be ok with D2s121b3 and the latest plugin.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
So, the double line shift in the log: some have it, some not.
@Tylo,

I've noticed that when copying from the D2Sroba log window, line feeds are OK. When trying to copy from the log file, they get duplicated.

Hope this helps.

[Trahald]

yeah.. ive been manually editing out the lines in mine.. thought it was just me. i just copy from notepad

[ric1234]

If you right-click in D2SRoba log windows and "Select All" and then copy and paste that -> it seems to work fine.
Ric

[manolito]

There is this thread in the CCE section started by Yuri that basically concludes that CCE 2.50 produces better quality encodes than CCE 2.66 or 2.67. I have switched over to CCE 2.67 some time ago because I assumed the newer version should of course be better, and because I had read somewhere in the forum that in CCE 2.50 matrices have no effect.

I have been quite happy with CCE 2.67 so far, but Yuri's thread made me curious, and I did some tests myself.

I used Tylo's plugin with 2% samples for a 1 CD encode using the film "Chocolat" (medium to low action, 1.85:1, 1hour 56minutes). As a reference I used CCE 2.67.13 with the modified progressive template according to DDoggs "Low Bitrate QMF Benchmark" thread. With FACAR using the modified QMF-Functions template and modified QMF thresholds (see the Low Bitrate thread) I got a Q of 36. The matrix I used was "Bach1".

For CCE 2.50 I first patched in the Bach1 matrix and then created a template that exactly mirrors the CCE 2.67 template. I set the QC slider at 28 which is DDogg's setting for CCE 2.67.

(There is some dispute if you are comparing apples to oranges here. In CCE 2.67 the QC scale goes from 0 to 64, while in CCE 2.50 the scale goes from 0 to 100. If you interpolate these values, a CCE 2.67 value of 28 would correspond to a CCE 2.50 value of 44. My tests showed however that with a value of 44 the resulting Q decreased by three, while when I used a QC value of 28 in CCE 2.50 I got a Q only 1 lower than using CCE 2.67 with a QC value of 28. So my conclusion is that a QC value of 28 in CCE 2.67 corresponds to a QC value of 28 in CCE 2.50.)


Test results:

1. CCE 2.50 does use matrices you patch into it. The difference in Q resulting from the use of different matrices is exactly the same in CCE 2.67 and CCE 2.50.

2. Compression effectiveness is hardly different between the two encoders. Using exactly the same filters, matrix and CCE settings I got a Q of 36 for CCE 2.67 and a Q of 35 for CCE 2.50.

3. CCE 2.50 does run a little slower than CCE 2.67, but the difference is minimal and probably depends on your CPU type.

4. For encoding quality I just don't know. For high bitrate encodes there might be a difference that is noticeable, but my encodes usually have bitrates below 1000, and I was completely unable to tell the difference between the two encoders.


So I think if you are using CCE 2.50 right now there is no reason to upgrade to 2.67, especially since Tylo's plugin now supports CCE 2.50 again.



P.S.
If you want to do some comparisons yourself, beware of some D2S issues when switching between two different encoders. After uninstalling CCE 2.67 , installing CCE 2.50, uninstalling 2.50 again and reinstalling 2.67 I got totally unpredictable results. The only way I could get consistent encodes again was to completely uninstall the encoder (including cleaning up the Registry) and D2S, and then reinstall everything again from scratch. Probably something in the D2S INI-files.

[tylo]

Released v3.0.0. Most of the issues reported here are fixed. A lot of other smaller changes, so I gather you still have to look out for "side-effects". :)

Thanks for your report, manolito, although the further discussion should be done in Yuri's or a new thread.

[Crackhead]

BIG:thanks: @tylo
will give it a shot today!
I'm optimistic it will work!:D ;)
What it ALWAYS did for me, btw!:devil: :cool:

[DDogg]

Could have been a fluke, but when CCE 2.5 started its sizing pass, besweet also started.

[bobwillis]

Hi Tylo,

Congratulations on the release of v3.0.0 - thanks very much.

I use D2SRoBa3 for DVD purposes.

A quick (hopefully) question for you:

Why is the audio bitrate always shown as 192kbps (for DVDs)?

Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=4222 (4222) audio1_br=192 video_sz=4193184850. fill=100.0% cbr=0

I'm not certain (until the whole process has finished), but this may lead to an oversized encode because the actual audio bitrate is 448kbps. I have enabled the 0% tolerance resizing pass, so I'll be able to let you know when it's finished.

Regards,
Bob

[syzygytec]

Bob, been using d2s/d2sroba on dvd's with great results, I even wrote a guide already, click the link in my sig hope this helps

[bobwillis]

Hi syzygytec,

That's a useful guide - well done.

However, it doesn't explain why the audio bitrate is always displayed by D2SRoBa as 192kbps (regardless of the DVD). If the wrong audio bitrate is used, then the output file may be oversized. The audio for the dvd I'm currently doing is 384kps. However, D2SRoBa and/or DVD2SVCD seem to think it's 192. Where does it get the 192kbps figure from?

Regards,
Bob

[tylo]

Where does it get the 192kbps figure from?If you uncheck 'Do not convert audio' in the Audio tab, you will see where.

Ok, so I'll test that setting, and use the source audio bitrate if it is checked. Just haven't had time to look at 2DVD stuff much yet.

[bobwillis]

Hi Tylo,

Ah, I see. Yes, if you could read the source audio bitrate that would be great - it may prevent an oversized encode.

Thanks once again,
Bob

[trebor]

Gotta say that this looks very promising BUT i think it's way to much automated. I can't get the settings i want and size of the cd's is never full. I might be doing something wrong but i've tried it 4 times now with different settings and i can't seem to max out the cd's whatever i do....
I would really like if it was possible to control movie length vs. bitrate/# cd's like i usually do to fill all cd's to the max no matter if it's 2, 3 or even 4 cd's. If that was possible WITH the great speed enhancement, well then i would be a happy guy :)

[manolito]

Great work, Tylo, thank you so much! I think now it's time for me to retire good old 2.70 RC2.

I did a few test encodes using CCE 2.50, and all the previous issues are gone. I really like how you integrated PowerMenu into the plugin.

@DDogg
The only way I could reproduce Besweet starting early was to minimize the encoding window. Happened to me while playing with the PowerMenu functions in the right-click context menu of CCE 2.50.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by trebor
I would really like if it was possible to control movie length vs. bitrate/# cd's like i usually do to fill all cd's to the max no matter if it's 2, 3 or even 4 cd's. If that was possible WITH the great speed enhancement, well then i would be a happy guy :)
@trebor, you are missing the point of this plugin. You are very likely not to get filled media with one pass. If you want speed (1 pass), you must take chances. If you want filled CDs, a second pass is generally needed.

The good thing is that 2 passes are needed in the worst case, which is still less than multipass VBR 2 (which does 3 passes), and with similar or better quality.

Please take a look at the D2Sroba FAQ (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64886) in order to grasp the details of the method.

[magnanimous]

G'day there, thanks for great program!, one issue I havn't been able to sort out as yet,is that when I use the new versions it stops when loading up cce when doing its sampling, I don't have any trouble with older versions, can you shed any light on the problem, I have an horrible old DURON 600, running XP, could this be the fault.

Thanks

[bobwillis]

Hi Tylo,

Further to my previous posts.

I have done 2 films with v3.0.0; both with the output size specified as 4480MB and with the conditional resizing pass set to +/-0%.

Film 1:
2hrs 12mins 25sec, actual audio bitrate 384kps
final vid size: 4193115240 (100%)
Total Disc Image size (all vobs, bups & ifos): 4687456256 (4470.3MB)

Film 2:
2hrs 49mins, actual audio bitrate 448kps
final vid size (100%): 4005664436
Total Disc Image size (all vobs, bups & ifos): 4698871808 (4481.2MB)

D2SRoBa used an audio bitrate of 192kps for its calculations. No audio re-encoding was done. As you can see, the resultant image file size is not the same in both cases.

Both files fit on a -R (just), but as you can see film 2 is over the specified 4480MB, whereas film 1 is under it. I would have expected that both encodes would be oversized since the audio bitrate used in the required video size calculations was too small.

I think this highlights that there is a slight inaccuracy in the required video size caluculations (even if the correct audio bitrate was used). If the correct audio bitrate was used, then both discs would come out undersized, rather than at the specified 4480MB.

Do you have an opinion or can you enlighten me on how you calculate things.

Best Regards,
Bob

[Trahald]

quick note.. and i think it may be an autoit3 thing.. regaurding batch mode.. when it makes the file it seems to be outputting line feeds incorrectly. if you load the file with notepad (without word wrap on) it shows the lines with the actual batch command as one continuous line of text. if i have word wrap on from the beginning, it APPEARS ok.. but if i edit the file then save it. then even the next time with word wrap on it appears as one continuous line (like this)--

Start "2003-11-26 08:53" /WAIT "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\D2SRoBa.exe" -batch Start /WAIT C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\DVD2SVCD.exe -d2s:"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\movie\test1\dvd2svcd project file.d2s" -run -exitStart "2003-11-26 08:54" /WAIT "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\D2SRoBa.exe" -batch Start /WAIT C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\DVD2SVCD.exe -d2s:"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\movie\test2\dvd2svcd project file.d2s" -run -exit

with the word wrap off it truely appears as one line (requiring using the scroll sideways bar to see it all)

as a test i loaded into word and its fine. autoit3 must not be using a totally compatible line feed. and the way to prove it, i load it into word, without editing just save immediately. then i load it into notepad and its fine. each batch line is separated the way it should be.

problem is when the batch is executed. its read as that long command and 1) d2s never closes.. and 2) when you close it manually the batch ends since its only the one line. hehe.
i dont mind loading it into word and resaving, or loading into notepad and putting in the linefeeds myself. dunno if there is a way around it.

[The Belgain]

I just tried the latest version, and it seems to work without too many bugs, but a couple of problems nonetheless:

I was doing an AVI2DVDR conversion, from a 2-hour-long xvid. The plugin ran it's sample runs, and decided to use Q1 even though this produced a 30% undersize. Once it ran the whole movie, the file did indeed come out about 30% undersized.
This has happened on several movies - the movie appears to be too compressible to even take up a whole DVDR at maximum quality. What should I do to fill it up? Should I change the 'image quality priority' or 'bias' settings for CCE? If so should they be higher or lower?

Also, I has set the audio to be done after the movie, with birate = min bitrate = 256. The audio was done at 192 however.

I'm using CCE 2.5 by the way.


edit: I've got conditional sizing pass turned off. This is just the results of it's first attempt. I'll try now with higher bias.

[ric1234]

Originally posted by The Belgain
The plugin ran it's sample runs, and decided to use Q1 even though this produced a 30% undersize. Q = 1 is the highest OPV quality you can get.
However, did you have the "Adjust Max video bitrate" box checked -and what max birate did you have, or if unchecked, did you have a max bitrate in Dvd2svcd ? This would prevent CCE from using more bitrate than this max and therefore limit the video file size.

Ric

[The Belgain]

Adjust max video bitrate was unchecked, and max video bitrate in DVD2SVCD was set to 9000, which should be fine for this.

I don't understand why at maximum quality, CCE is still only using about 4.5 MBit or so at DVDres. Is this just because there isn't enough detail in the source to need more space? The ouput isn't that great quality (though to be fair, nor was the source)? And surely a compressed (therefore "noisy") source should be harder to recompress? If I use CBR, then the target size is hit just fine by the way.

I'm at a bit of a loss about this.

[ric1234]

Originally posted by The Belgain
Adjust max video bitrate was unchecked, and max video bitrate in DVD2SVCD was set to 9000, which should be fine for this.
If I use CBR, then the target size is hit just fine by the way.
This would bring back the discussion of last week starting with this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=398964#post398964) and followings.
It says OPV/Q=1 does not use the same bit allocation as CBR. Could you tell what Bitrate viewer says for both you CBR and OPV encodes ?
And out of curiosity, which one looks the best on the screen ?

Ric

[The Belgain]

Right, the second encode with higher bias (50 instead of 20) has finished and the output size is exactly (down to the nearest byte) the same. So bias presumably has no effect on OPV excodes.

That discussion back there was more to do with SVCDs, in which case a Q1 encode pretty much is CBR due to the low max bitrate. For DVD however you trpically aim for an average bitrate about half the max (or less), so OPR is truly VBR (looking at the live bitrate in PowerDVD).

I haven't compared the quality of a CBR encode using the full DVD vs an undersized OPV encode. I would imagine it would depend on how undersized the OPV one was. Here, it was over a gig undresize, so maybe CBR would be better.

The point is that the video really shouldn't be so compressible that CCE not managing to fill up a DVDR at Q1 for a 120 mins of video. Something is going wrong. How can I make CCE give more bitrate to the video without having to resort to CBR? Should I try using a high min bitrate (seems a little silly?)?

[syzygytec]

Changed to CCE 2.50 used RoBa 3 for the first time, total failure it did nothing.

My Log
--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0.0
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-26 09:25:00
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4350
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.5
- Auto Q. (worst) : 25
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio after video : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=0 (total 8500 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=1
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for Ripping done ...

Thats it! D2S did the whole job w/o roba interacting and a resulting file that was oversize

[Crackhead]

why trying to put 1 avi on 1 dvd-r!?
i think cce doesn't use more bitrate cause it isn't needed at all! you have approx. a 700mb avi, which has a certain quality. CCE, in your case, decides which q to use to fill the dvd and ends up with q=1, that basically means the quality of your avi will absolutely be kept, no compression is done more or less. so why using, wasting is the better word, bitrate where it's not needed!? in your case i would go for 2 avi on 1 dvd-r, which would be indeed a better use of the space you have.

[The Belgain]

@Crackhead:

The reason I'm not bothered about saving space is that this is only for temporary burning to DVDRW to watch once on a TV, then delete, so the disc doesn't get wasted.

Also, the quality of the the outputted file is slightly worse than the avi (slightly hard to tell in this case since the avi is quite bad itslef). This compares to when I did a 9500 CBR encode of a 45 min avi episode to a DVDR (again, might as well use max bitrate since space not an issue) and the output file was pretty much indeistinguishable from the avi.

Anyway, it turns out I seem to have found out what the problem was (fingers crossed): I has just done a fresh install of DVD2SVCD and CCE, and had forgotten to select "standard" template for CCE rather than the default settings DVD2SVCD uses (which are presumably more SVCD than DVD tuned?). The encode's still running, but it looks like it'll pretty much hit the desired size spot on. (It's still using Q1 by the way).


edit: well, the video still came out 13% undersized, but I guess that's an improvement on before. I'll have a look to see if the video quality is better.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by The Belgain
This has happened on several movies - the movie appears to be too compressible to even take up a whole DVDR at maximum quality.
Yes. You know, shit happens. ;) In this case, it is called a maxed out movie.
What should I do to fill it up?
Whatever you do, will not increase the video quality significantly. In fact, you might as well take 2 movies of those and encode them to 1 DVDR with a higher Q, if stretching your media is important to you.

[tylo]

- Batch prepare : on=1
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for Ripping done ...

@syzygytec: Don't select "Batch prepare (rip only)" if you don't intend to.

[syzygytec]

Thanks, figured that out, I already had ripped. So now heres the real log, going to do this one again with 2.50 and try to put the whats better issue to rest for myself.


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0.0
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-27 01:23:19
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4350
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.5
- Auto Q. (worst) : 25
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio after video : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=0 (total 8500 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:13:45 (192427 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 3992 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 480, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 4812
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=3992 (3992) audio1_br=192 video_sz=4004882925. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 3992 (max 8500) kbps, size=4004882925. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 3053 (Q=17, err=-23.5%, size=3063802859., sample sz=76616168.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5655 (Q=4, err=41.7%, size=5674159411., sample sz=141893056.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3633 (Q=12, err=-9.0%, size=3645094595., sample sz=91152464.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3788 (Q=11, err=-5.1%, size=3800355831., sample sz=95035064.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3977 (Q=10, err=-0.4%, size=3990101330., sample sz=99780008.)
- Determined Q : 9 = round(10 - 0.5 + (-0.4)/4.7)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-27 01:54:40
- Actual mpv file size:
11/27/2003 04:05 AM 4021139376 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 100.4% on target ( 4021139376 / 4004882925.) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.02
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 3992 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
11/27/2003 06:15 AM 3996277284 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 99.8% on target ( 3996277284 / 4004882925.) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.03
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-27 06:15:26

[syzygytec]

I am not happy this morning, a whole night wasted. It stopped 10 minutes after I left it with a window open browsing for a .ecl this was with cce sp250. What happened?, How do I keep it from ever happening again?
--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0.0
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-28 01:14:02
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 5.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 25
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 0.6
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio after video : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=0 (total 8500 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:13:45 (192427 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 4125 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 240, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 9624
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=4125 (4125) audio1_br=192 video_sz=4138312140. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 4125 (max 8500) kbps, size=4138312140. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 0 (Q=16, err=-100.0%, size=0., sample sz=0.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3054 (Q=16, err=-26.0%, size=3064827057., sample sz=153283560.)

[Trahald]

I am not happy this morning, a whole night wasted. It stopped 10 minutes after I left it with a window open browsing for a .ecl this was with cce sp250. What happened?, How do I keep it from ever happening again?


stop using the plugin :)

seriously.

then you will be happy. or at least if your not happy you can be upset with something else

at the early stages ive used the plugin and had it stop early in the process(lots of times). i challenge you to find one 'im not happy' post from me. they were opportunities to point out possible problems and make the plugin even better. not wasted nights. if your not happy.. ask for a refund

[syzygytec]

Hey, I'm not complaining, it was said to be fixed with 2.50, I love the plugin and have been wanting to try it with 2.50, I just want to know if maybe I did something wrong that's all, I just now did a recover and it happened again. Does not happen with 2.67 ( I have a very slow PC)

[ric1234]

No comment on the "I'm not happy"...
I know it is so difficult to make a software 120% perfect, I truly express my support to Tylo for all the great work he has done and is still doing.

Let's try to solve this issue if there is one.

@syzygytec : could you tell by any chance if :
- your screen saver didn't come up before this open dialog box hangs ?
- if you have the user session reset with screen saver (or whatever it's called) activated in XP ?
- or if you just changed user session in XP ?

I think this happened to me once as well (and I'm using CCE2.66) but it was with v3 beta3 and I suspected an XP user session problem (changed the screen saver setting) but I didn't do any further test on that later...

Ric

[syzygytec]

@ric1234 no none of the above, only one acount on this machine, no savers, I encode on an idle PC, as idle as possible.

Keeps happening, even restored my pc from a backup and re-setup everything. ScreenGrab (http://www.geocities.com/syzygydvd/help/snap002.gif) just stops after the first pass search for Q (to view copy and paste link into new browser window)

[tylo]

I am working on 3.0.1, where I think syzygytec's problem is fixed (more careful input to dialogs). I will also not use PowerMenu anylonger for changing process priority, but another small command util for that. (you may still use it yourself, though).

@syzygytec: I know by now that you're not really complaining, but it always helps to address problems in a constructive way. :) ps: Thanks for documenting the 2DVD process using D2S - nice.

@paceri: why not PM me.

[telemike]

Tomb Raider 2



--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0.0
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-29 07:36:06
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 36
- Maximum Q. : 64
- Adjust Q : 0.8
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-6.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio after video : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 160 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2650 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:57:17 (168724 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1688 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1695
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=756 (756) audio1_br=160 video_sz=665015766. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1688 (1688) audio1_br=160 video_sz=1484850017. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2426 (2556) audio1_br=224 video_sz=2134032074. fill=95.4% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2490 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1177 (Q=36, err=?%, size=1036198289., sample sz=10409640.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1688 (max 2490) kbps, size=1484850017. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1576 (Q=19, err=-6.6%, size=1386549743., sample sz=13929268.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1741 (Q=14, err=3.1%, size=1531679458., sample sz=15387240.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1676 (Q=16, err=-0.7%, size=1474511586., sample sz=14812932.)
- Determined Q : 15 = round(16 - 0.8 + (-0.7)/1.9)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-29 07:54:23
- Actual mpv file size:
11/29/2003 10:09 AM 1438461764 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 96.9% on target ( 1438461764 / 1484850017.) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.87
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "D:\dvd\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "D:\dvd\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\dvd\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 160 -m s )

[Siku]

I did a test with AVI2SVCD and this was the result:
--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0.0
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-30 00:05:51
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 802
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 0.6
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio after video : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:03:10 (90872 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1561 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 750, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1830
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1561 (1561) audio1_br=160 video_sz=739547840. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 1561 (max 2594) kbps, size=739547840. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1905 (Q=25, err=22.0%, size=902525211., sample sz=18175248.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1414 (Q=38, err=-9.4%, size=670221619., sample sz=13497068.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1410 (Q=34, err=-9.7%, size=668343995., sample sz=13459256.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 590 (Q=185, err=-62.2%, size=279886555., sample sz=5636416.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2165 (Q=6, err=38.7%, size=1026015591., sample sz=20662124.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 907 (Q=75, err=-41.9%, size=429758020., sample sz=8654560.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1534 (Q=39, err=-1.7%, size=726910453., sample sz=14638680.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1352 (Q=37, err=-13.4%, size=640560998., sample sz=12899756.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2220 (Q=0, err=42.2%, size=1052116612., sample sz=21187752.)
- Determined Q : 1 = round(0 - 0.6 + (42.2)/-5.8)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie

I think that something went wrong when searching for the right Q value. I decided to calcel the encoding at that point.

[tylo]

- Estim. mpv BR : 1414 (Q=38, err=-9.4%, size=670221619., sample sz=13497068.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1410 (Q=34, err=-9.7%, size=668343995., sample sz=13459256.)

Can anyone explain how it is possible that a lower Q can give a smaller file size (and bitrate)??

Siku, are you sure there were no old sample files in the output directory, and at the same time "Delete old temporary files" was unchecked? (From now I will print in the log when a sample was reused). If you are, these figures are pretty surprising, and requires a different approach to find target Q.

The old binary search would work, but a combo of Newton and binary search would probably be best.

[Siku]

@tylo

I ran a new test last night, this time I removed all 'old' files from output directory and this time it worked. I had the 'Delete old temporary files' unchecked all the time. It seems that you need to delete all old files in output directory to get 100% right results.

[Crackhead]

Originally posted by tylo
- Estim. mpv BR : 1414 (Q=38, err=-9.4%, size=670221619., sample sz=13497068.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1410 (Q=34, err=-9.7%, size=668343995., sample sz=13459256.)

Can anyone explain how it is possible that a lower Q can give a smaller file size (and bitrate)??

The old binary search would work, but a combo of Newton and binary search would probably be best. I don't think something went wrong with the newton search, since it estimated this file size! That means cce did encode the sample and something in the encoding process went completely wrong! Maybe different settings, which would be very strange, or more likely the process was canceled before it could finish, and then D2SRoba would go on with the wrong file size...

i was more afraid that the computed file sizes of the old binary search could mix up everything since this computing assumes that the q.factor/bitrate function is linear but it is not! If it were linear, only two sample file sizes would be needed to calculate the right q.factor, which would be great actually hrhr...just dreaming once again ;)

//add: Originally posted by tylo
It seems that you need to delete all old files in output directory to get 100% right results.That's exactly what the "delete old temporary files" option does when it is checked;)

Greetz, Crackhead

[r6d2]

Indiana Jones III: Almost great, but it turned out being 3 images instead of 2. It is because of the 0.1% oversizing?
Disk1=806MB
Disk2=802MB
Disk3=2.65MB

--------------------------------------------------------
D2Sroba v3.0.0
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-11-30 08:21:37
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 35
- Maximum Q. : 40
- Adjust Q : 1.5
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2 .. 0.5)%
- Audio after video : on=1 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2756 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:00:39 (173586 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1646 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1740
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=767 (767) audio1_br=128 video_sz=694134040. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1646 (1646) audio1_br=160 video_sz=1489627940. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2493 (2493) audio1_br=224 video_sz=2256161881. fill=100.0% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2596 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1282 (Q=35, err=?%, size=1160608766., sample sz=11633768.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1646 (max 2596) kbps, size=1489627940. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1604 (Q=23, err=-2.6%, size=1452187754., sample sz=14556512.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1668 (Q=21, err=1.3%, size=1510212566., sample sz=15138144.)
- Deriv. mpv BR : 1636 (Q=22, err=-0.6%)
- Determined Q : 20 = round(22 - 1.5 + (-0.6)/1.9)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-11-30 08:42:05
- Actual mpv file size:
30-11-2003 10:17 1490457592 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- OPV pass result: 100.1% on target ( 1490457592 / 1489627940.) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.27
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "E:\Indiana III\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "E:\INDIAN~3\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.mp2" -logfile "E:\INDIAN~3\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 160 -m s ) -split( -start 0 -end 7239.94828161495 )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-11-30 10:31:14

[manolito]

@r6d2
Yes, the 0.1% oversize certainly causes the third file. It is this gamble about finding the right Adjust Q again. In your case an Adjust Q of 1.1 would have given you what you wanted.

I usually use a CD size of 820 (all blanks I have used recently allow me to overburn that much) and choose an Ajust Q that will almost certainly never oversize. So even if the encode comes out at -2% I still have a full CD without doing a second sizing pass.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by manolito
Yes, the 0.1% oversize certainly causes the third file.
Mmm... Tylo and other use oversize, with greater margin than I do. I wonder if this happens to them too.

Anyway, it makes little sense, since the second image is much shorter than needed and available space.

It may be a DVD2SVCD thing.

[Vespers]

Just a quick note to tylo.

I have begun using your plugin and just wanted to say thank you. I have done a few hundred encodes the usual way(learning a bit more each time on settings and such) but using your plugin has to be the easiest & fastest way I have seen yet. My average encodes now take 1 1/2 hours. The only thing I have noticed is when first installed and then run for the first time it hung without finishing the encode. After redoing it the encode went perfectly. I recently reinstalled xp and as a test installed then started your plugin; then stopped and closed it. After restarting the first encode went perfect as usual. ?Something to do with the initial creation of the plugin's ini files maybe?; as I noticed there were none when it was first installed but not yet run for the first time. Anyway keep up the great work...... I am a long time reader here just not a big poster...thanks to everyone else for their input I have learned a great deal here by just reading.

System
Athlon XP 2700+
1 Gig DDR 333 Ram
Multiple Hard drives
OS WinXP

[syzygytec]

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0.0
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-12-02 00:55:57
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 5.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio after video : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=0 (total 8500 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:13:45 (192427 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 4125 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 240, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 9624
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=4125 (4125) audio1_br=160 video_sz=4138312140. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 4125 (max 8500) kbps, size=4138312140. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2443 (Q=16, err=-40.8%, size=2451073863., sample sz=122587448.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4654 (Q=2, err=12.8%, size=4669672076., sample sz=233547912.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3843 (Q=5, err=-6.8%, size=3855956997., sample sz=192850952.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4077 (Q=4, err=-1.2%, size=4090744970., sample sz=204593584.)
- Determined Q : 3 = round(4 - 0.5 + (-1.2)/5.7)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-02 01:51:33
- Actual mpv file size:
12/02/2003 04:46 AM 4165584852 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 100.7% on target ( 4165584852 / 4138312140.) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.77
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 4125 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
12/02/2003 07:41 AM 4120650732 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 99.6% on target ( 4120650732 / 4138312140.) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.77

Hi Tylo anxiously awaiting the next release, In the meantime.
I am supposing that if I did this same movie with the exact same settings everywhere RoBa would do the exact same thing? but I dont know, can't say I understand it all that well, however assuming so my goal would ideally be to avoid a sizing pass for oversize, I'm OK with undersize to a point 100-150mb would be OK.
So if I was to redo this hoping to avoid a conditional sizing pass all together (or at least oversize) what would be a good adjustment? in this instance to have avoided going over

[tylo]

hi, syzygytec. As I have mentioned before, I think on very low Qs its bigger chance to oversize, even if the adjust Q is small. For now use Adjust Q = 0.0 and up to 0.6 (when you know Q is below 25 or so). For high Qs > 40, Adjust Q = 1.2. I'll see if can put in a function there that increases adjust Q for higher Q and vise versa.
ps: It won't help to use 5% sample: 1-3% is good enough.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by syzygytec
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Sizing pass result: 99.6% on target ( 4120650732 / 4138312140.) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.77

I am supposing that if I did this same movie with the exact same settings everywhere RoBa would do the exact same thing?
Yes, provided you check "delete previous files".

I'm OK with undersize to a point 100-150mb would be OK.
So if I was to redo this hoping to avoid a conditional sizing pass all together (or at least oversize) what would be a good adjustment?
If you want to avoid the second pass uncheck sizing pass. Adjust Q is a gamble so don't expect a good value for one movie will help on another. Also :readfaq:

[syzygytec]

Yes I know to uncheck conditional sizing pass but then what protection do I have to oversize? I more often, if not every time need the 2nd pass for over rather than undersize, like I said not so worried about under to a point, so far its not been an issue just was looking for a setting to avoid oversize more often, I suppose I'm just showing my ignorance of the math taking place here or I wouldn't ask such questions

[pacohaas]

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0.0
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-12-02 14:15:02
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 790
- Number of CD's : ?
- Sample percent : 5.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 160
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.5 .. 1.2)%
- Audio after video : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2754 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 00:42:07 (75763 frames, 29.97 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2325 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 300, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 3795
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2262 (2325) audio1_br=192 video_sz=714781056. fill=97.5% cbr=0
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2562 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1127 (Q=160, err=?%, size=356374938., sample sz=17850968.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 2262 (max 2562) kbps, size=714781056. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1282 (Q=131, err=-43.3%, size=405390385., sample sz=20306172.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1488 (Q=106, err=-34.2%, size=470469983., sample sz=23566036.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2510 (Q=12, err=11.0%, size=793404670., sample sz=39741968.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2483 (Q=35, err=9.8%, size=784817957., sample sz=39311856.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 940 (Q=223, err=-58.4%, size=297149633., sample sz=14884348.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2107 (Q=62, err=-6.9%, size=665992825., sample sz=33359856.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2445 (Q=41, err=8.1%, size=772781322., sample sz=38708936.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2299 (Q=52, err=1.6%, size=726493663., sample sz=36390368.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2515 (Q=0, err=11.2%, size=794892140., sample sz=39816476.)
- Determined Q : 18 = round(0 - 1.0 + (11.2)/0.6)
========================================================
- Selected num CDs : 1 (Q=18)
- Reduced CD size : 772 (fill = 97.5%)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-02 14:53:08

First, why did it choose to fill the cd to 97.5%? Haven't had this problem yet in 20 or so encodes.

2nd, the logic here seems way off, check out the Q's it decided to try, then somehow it came up with Q=18???

I raised the max Q to 160 because I was having problem with this particular movie not fitting on a single CD with Q=50 and I wanted to see just what Q it needed to fit on a CD since it's only 42 minutes long, thought I'd post these strange results.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by pacohaas
- CD size : 790
- Number of CD's : ?
- Maximum Q. : 160
- Movie length : 00:42:07 (75763 frames, 29.97 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2325 kbps, 1 CDs
- 1 CD: video_br=2262 (2325) audio1_br=192 video_sz=714781056. fill=97.5% cbr=0

First, why did it choose to fill the cd to 97.5%? Haven't had this problem yet in 20 or so encodes.
I'm not sure, but it might have something to do with the threshold value of 300. If video_br is higher than max_by_spec - threshold, the plugin should switch to CBR (or at least that was the idea). Just guessing, because it did not switch to CBR and it's been several versions back since I looked at the code.

2nd, the logic here seems way off, check out the Q's it decided to try, then somehow it came up with Q=18???
The Newton method requires the derivative of the function to converge fastly. As neither the function nor the derivative are known, an aproximation is used. When the Delta_x is big, the error of this aproximation is big too. High variation of Q produce this. On the 1...40 range, it converges quite good.
I raised the max Q to 160 because I was having problem with this particular movie not fitting on a single CD with Q=50
This is weird. Q=50 should have fitted with no problems on 1 CD even in auto mode. Do you have that log at hand?

(AFAIK, there are still some quirks with 1-4 or ? mode), so I recommend to use auto mode.)

Also, why did you use 790 as CD size? If you are affraid of oversizing, choose sizing pass with high=0 and Adjust_Q=0.

[pacohaas]

Originally posted by r6d2
This is weird. Q=50 should have fitted with no problems on 1 CD even in auto mode. Do you have that log at hand?

(AFAIK, there are still some quirks with 1-4 or ? mode), so I recommend to use auto mode.)

Also, why did you use 790 as CD size? If you are affraid of oversizing, choose sizing pass with high=0 and Adjust_Q=0. nah, don't have that log, but if you look at this one you can see that when it used Q=52 it was already too large by 1.6%.

i use 790 because i prefer to have cd's whose edges aren't so "precious", so most of my cd's aren't completely full, but i haveset the oversize to 1.2% so, if the final video ends up being 800MB, everything goes fine. As i said, it's been working for me for more than 20 movies so far, but for some reason this one(SNL's Best of Adam Sandler), is highly uncompressable or something.

[tylo]

@pacohaas: thanks for posting this one.

First: The reason why it didn't switch to CBR:
- It computes max BR: 2754-192 = 2562
- It compute max avg BR: 2562-300 = 2262
- It computes CBR limit: 2562-300/2 = 2412.
- If target BR is above 2412 => CBR with Min(target BR, 2562) (max BR constraint)
- If target BR is below 2412 => OPV with Min(target BR, 2262) as new target BR (max avg BR constraint).

The last is your case. If anyone comprehends the above, please verify that it makes sense (I know r6d2 will :D).

Second: The Q search failed: The problem is that the Q function has kind of an S-shape near Max bitrate, because of the max bitrate contstraint. I stop at 9 iterations, (the 10th has therefore Q=0), because then something went wrong. I will fix this problem by adaptively use binary selection (similar to 2.x version) when Q values are way off like here. :)

[pacohaas]

makes perfect sense. quick question, why the 300/2? why not the (maxbitrate-120) like DVD2SVCD recommends?
edit: nevermind, figured out what the D2SRoBa maxaverage offset setting was for

tried it again with a lower max Q and with the maxaverage offset changed to 120, it found it this time, but with one interesting iteration:

Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2507 (Q=17, err=6.7%, size=792341392., sample sz=39688708.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2505 (Q=21, err=6.6%, size=791617661., sample sz=39652456.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 830 (Q=333, err=-64.7%, size=262288511., sample sz=13138140.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2333 (Q=50, err=-0.7%, size=737395230., sample sz=36936432.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2379 (Q=47, err=1.3%, size=751948354., sample sz=37665404.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2349 (Q=49, err=0.0%, size=742499839., sample sz=37192124.)
- Determined Q : 48 = round(49 - 1.0 + (0.0)/0.6)

Now, shouldn't it have respected the max Q setting that I had(which was 90 this time instead of the 160)? Either way, CCE's max is 300, so perhaps at the very least, this should be put into the algorithm as an upper limit. But I think it makes sense not to use a higher Q than the max Q setting.

[r6d2]

@pacohass,

Would you encode the same movie in auto mode with Max_Q=55 or so? My guess is it should work.

[Trahald]

poco - i hit the same issues with some episodes i was encoding to single cd. (it would pick 760 or something like that as size) i just set the max avg offset to 100. fills the whole cd now and no issues with cce.

q searches have been great so far for me
- no issues to report

[pacohaas]

with maxaverage offset set to 120 and max Q at 55, using auto mode:

- Movie length : 00:42:07 (75763 frames, 29.97 fps)
- D2S audio setting : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2325 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 2280
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2325 (2325) audio1_br=192 video_sz=734688751. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=2562 (4858) audio1_br=192 video_sz=809579605. fill=54.7% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2562 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2223 (Q=55, err=?%, size=702529564., sample sz=21141816.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 2325 (max 2562) kbps, size=734688751. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2260 (Q=53, err=-2.8%, size=714385809., sample sz=21498616.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2332 (Q=49, err=0.3%, size=736953214., sample sz=22177756.)
- Determined Q : 48 = round(49 - 1.0 + (0.3)/0.8)
------------------------------------------- Actual mpv file size:
12/04/2003 05:38 PM 727538232 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 99.0% on target ( 727538232 / 734688751.) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.40

So what's the difference in the algorithms? Once it is decided how many cd's will be used, i would think the rest would be the same code.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by pacohaas
So what's the difference in the algorithms? Once it is decided how many cd's will be used, i would think the rest would be the same code.
You know, Tylo does black magic ;). Even though AutoIt3 is a much more decent language to code, the plugin is so powerful that the logic is still non trivial.

For some reason range mode gets dizzy at times. I tried to dig into the code, but it takes some time to master it. Tylo is really good at optimizing the code and I guess some conditions may be sort of unstable.

[tylo]

Version 3.0.3 is online. NB: I moved to a new cyber home.

paceri made me a great new project page, but unfortunately I haven't gotten around to install it yet. A big thanks anyway.

@pacohaas & r6d2: Yes, but I should be able to explain all your strange log files at least to myself, so I can keep my sanity. :D

So what's the difference in the algorithms? Once it is decided how many cd's will be used, i would think the rest would be the same code.
- No, because the initial Q value is used for calculating the next and so forth. You start with different Q's. I think the new v3.0.3 should handle all your difficult cases much better. Please report if so/not so.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
I moved to a new cyber home.
Nice move. :)

Maybe a link to the D2Sroba FAQ there would be useful?
@pacohaas & r6d2: Yes, but I should be able to explain all your strange log files at least to myself, so I can keep my sanity. :D
Maybe it's just voodoo magic from some TMPGEnc fans. :)

[syzygytec]

3.03

Tylo got that error again ran Bitrate Viewer on Pulldown_Encoded_Video_NTSC.mpv and Peak=9364 and Avg=4937
Error Video or Audio Buffer underflow: (Dts: 400298130, SCR 400298256)
Error dvd_mux : DoMux Multiplexing Error
Error Terminated Multiplexing (movie0.scn-Pulldown_Encoded_Video_NT_1_t.vob).
Error Total bitrate is too HIGH. Please reduce the stream bitrate or the number of stream.
Error Multiplex is failed.

D2SRoBa v3.0.3
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-12-06 00:10:42
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 40
- Maximum Q. : 50
- Adjust Q : 0.6
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio after video : on=0 (% of video, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=0 (total 2754 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:49:00 (156808 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 5167 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 3144
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=5167 (5167) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4224156114. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 5167 (max 8500) kbps, size=4224156114. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 3159 (Q=13, err=-38.9%, size=2582862573., sample sz=51786388.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4652 (Q=6, err=-10.0%, size=3803924075., sample sz=76268668.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5264 (Q=4, err=1.9%, size=4304030672., sample sz=86295804.)
- Determined Q : 4 = round(4 - 0.6 + (1.9)/5.9)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-06 00:28:00
- Actual mpv file size:
12/06/2003 02:24 AM 4201353772 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 99.5% on target ( 4201353772 / 4224156114.) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.94
--------------------------------------------------------
EDIT same everything now with 3.03a still failed muxing, I mgoing to try again tonite with 3.0.0 and see if it happens again I dont understand tho the way I see it D2S max bitrate set to 8500 + 448 for the ac3 nothing should ever go above 8948 total

- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 5167 (max 8500) kbps, size=4224156114. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2491 (Q=21, err=-51.8%, size=2036824798., sample sz=40838332.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4652 (Q=6, err=-10.0%, size=3803924075., sample sz=76268668.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5940 (Q=2, err=15.0%, size=4856708448., sample sz=97376992.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5264 (Q=4, err=1.9%, size=4304030672., sample sz=86295804.)
- Determined Q : 4 = round(4 - 0.6 + (1.9)/6.5)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-07 01:18:36
- Actual mpv file size:
12/07/2003 03:14 AM 4201353772 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 99.5% on target ( 4201353772 / 4224156114.) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.94

[Trahald]

i was messing around with autoit to make a qsearch for docce4u. it seemed to be working ok until i found out something fairly serious for use with dvdauthoring. as syzygytec eludes to, when OPV is used on low q's, it sometimes jumps over the max bitrate. basically you almost have to do a second pass to get things in line. dvd is very picky. i havent tried purposefully lowering the max yet, that would probably be a sorta fix.. although figuring out how much lower is ok (1000kb - 2000kb?) is a guess..
basically this is a flaw in cce in OPV mode

[DDogg]

w00kiee, what version of CCE? Can you recreate the same problem with another version?

[syzygytec]

or maybe try to always force a second pass like setting to 0.5 under and 0.0 over, Im not placing blame on any software Im too clueless to do that but.....I'm going to do the same movie, with exact same settings tonite with 3.0.0 and see what happens, maybe my logs will help nail it down to cce, roba or d2s, then maybe a way to control the bitrate can be found. I don't understand why the bitrate would ever go over 8948 but it is going way over, my unmuxed mpv hit 9364 + 448 9812, but I read somewhere in the forums that under 10k was ok in a post about scenarist.

[tylo]

Tylo got that error again ran Bitrate Viewer on Pulldown_Encoded_Video_NTSC.mpv and Peak=9364 and Avg=4937
Error Video or Audio Buffer underflow: (Dts: 400298130, SCR 400298256)
Error dvd_mux : DoMux Multiplexing Error
Error Terminated Multiplexing (movie0.scn-Pulldown_Encoded_Video_NT_1_t.vob).
Error Total bitrate is too HIGH. Please reduce the stream bitrate or the number of stream.
Error Multiplex is failed.

This indicates that you should further lower it at least by 500, maybe 1000, i.e. max br = 7500 - 8000. Although, if OPV mode ignores the max br altogether, it won't help. But my impression was that CCE had a tendency to go over up to some percentage. Should be easy to test.

v3.0.5 is out. Fixes an issue in Newton search and the flaky '?' mode.

[r6d2]

With 3.0.3, exactly 100% in second pass, but image size was 795-MB :confused:

--------------------------------------------------------
D2Sroba v3.0.3
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.74.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-12-07 22:33:16
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q. (worst) : 35
- Maximum Q. : 40
- Adjust Q : 1.5
- Sizing pass : on=1 (-2 .. 0.5)%
- Audio after video : on=1 (Use Min br, 10%, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : on=1 (total 2756 kbps)
- Batch prepare : on=0
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Setting low process priority
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:52:45 (162217 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1804 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1635
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=830 (830) audio1_br=128 video_sz=701952525. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1804 (1804) audio1_br=128 video_sz=1525689585. fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2628 (2778) audio1_br=128 video_sz=2222567755. fill=94.9% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2628 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 748 (Q=35, err=?%, size=633171347., sample sz=6381792.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 830 (max 2628) kbps, size=701952525. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 803 (Q=31, err=-3.3%, size=679830711., sample sz=6852076.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 836 (Q=29, err=0.7%, size=707260167., sample sz=7128540.)
- Determined Q : 28 = round(29 - 1.5 + (0.7)/2.0)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-07 22:54:28
- Actual mpv file size:
08-12-2003 01:23 734228492 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- OPV pass result: 104.6% on target ( 734228492 / 701952525.) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.76
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 830 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
08-12-2003 03:53 701653884 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 701653884 / 701952525.) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.75
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "E:\Patriot Games\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "E:\PATRIO~1\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.mp2" -logfile "E:\PATRIO~1\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 128 -m s ) -split( -start 0 -end 6765.76576576577 )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-12-08 04:07:52

[syzygytec]

It happened again, now with 3 different versions of the plugin on the same movie. The only thing I can say for certain and weather or not it means anything I have no clue, but I never had this error when using the 4350 size, not even on this same movie.


This indicates that you should further lower it at least by 500, maybe 1000, i.e. max br = 7500 - 8000
May as well set it to 100 it doesnt seem to constrain to anything

[tylo]

With 3.0.3, exactly 100% in second pass, but image size was 795-MB

Nothing to do with D2SRoBa. Your own excel sheet computes bitrate to 843. Subtract 15 for seq header alignment, and you're down to 828, which is 2 below my computation. You can try changing timebands so that D2S estimates for 1 CD instead (in original/DVD2SVCD.ini), but I guess it will be about the same. 795 isn't that bad anyway.

@syzygytec: this shouldn't be plugin related either, but surely strange. You could try OPV and the current Q without the plugin to make sure.

v3.0.6 fixes another rare syntax error bug.

[Trahald]

syzygytec - its not the plugin.. its specifically CCE encodes done with OPV and a very low q (under 10). at higher q's it seems to be ok. rip a vobid in the middle of a dvd and do an encode on it at q4 and 0 min 9000 max.. then test with bitrate viewer. you will more than like hit peak bitrates above 10000. then do a single multi-pass using the same VAF file using the avg bitrate you get from bitrate viewer. you will see peaks never excede 9000 (generally wont even come very near it). even though bitrate viewer isnt the most accurate, generally anything that peaks above 10k in bitrate viewer will fail a compile in scenarist

ddogg - 2.66 i'll try with 2.5 when i get a chance. although if you have 2.5 just do a q4 pass on a few mpeg2 source you have laying around then check in bitrate viewer.. chances are it will peak over your max (use 0 - 9000 [i havent tested svcd bitrates]) unless its version specific

what version do you have syzygytec?

[DDogg]

w00kiee, thanks, I just want to see if it is version specific.

[syzygytec]

I've been using 2.67.00.13
This is getting complicated, and no I don't tink really that its plugin related, if I set q4 opv in d2s and ran it again the same thing will most likely happen, doing this would be like having just used RoBa as an estimating tool in other words to find a q then the opv should run with that q and do the same encode as it would have through RoBa right?

Well we know this is happening in 2.66/2.67 waiting to see if it does with w00kie's test in 2.50
EDIT actually, I forgot this first happened to me using 2.50

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
[B]With 3.0.3, exactly 100% in second pass, but image size was 795-MB

Nothing to do with D2SRoBa. Your own excel sheet computes bitrate to 843. Subtract 15 for seq header alignment, and you're down to 828, which is 2 below my computation.
I'm not using seq header/scan offsets, so I should not substract anything.

But I'm lost... Are you computing the BR now? I thought you were using D2S's computation and then extrapolating. :confused:

[syzygytec]

Don't know if this follows through but on the same movie with cce 267 RoBa 303 (from previous post)the q search =
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 3159 (Q=13, err=-38.9%, size=2582862573., sample sz=51786388.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4652 (Q=6, err=-10.0%, size=3803924075., sample sz=76268668.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5264 (Q=4, err=1.9%, size=4304030672., sample sz=86295804.)
- Determined Q : 4 = round(4 - 0.6 + (1.9)/5.9)

Then with 306 cce250 (yes I know diff roba diff cce) tylo will know what if any difference this makes if any always in my limited exp. has roba came up with lower q on the same material with cce 250

- Estim. mpv BR : 2729 (Q=13, err=-47.2%, size=2231794598., sample sz=44747476.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3752 (Q=6, err=-27.4%, size=3067441587., sample sz=61502196.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5377 (Q=1, err=4.1%, size=4396439662., sample sz=88148604.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4972 (Q=2, err=-3.8%, size=4064838622., sample sz=81500004.)
- Determined Q : 1 = round(2 - 0.6 + (-3.8)/7.8)

so the same too high of bitrate is bound to happen seems like w00kie is pretty sure cce goes beszerk on low q opv's I don't see any sense in leaving RoBa outta the loop and plugging the q determined by RoBa in and doing an opv through d2s
Maybe some genius here will figure it out, in the meantime Im going to do a run with all defaults tonite and see what happens with cce 250 cd size 4480 3passmulti-pass 9000,2000,7200 this should prove weather or not cce constrains to its settings in multipass if so it should complete with not peak higher than 9448 in my dumb mind


EDIT
Multi-pass completed no problems with a peak bitrate on the muxed vob of 9129 maybe, however very disappointing cce has a opv bug and roba is not going to be usable with dvd output

[tylo]

I'm not using seq header/scan offsets, so I should not substract anything.
But I'm lost... Are you computing the BR now? I thought you were using D2S's computation and then extrapolating.

- AFAIK, its not possible to uncheck 'Align sequence headers' in the bbmpeg menu, so I don't know what you mean.
- I am using D2S's computation and then extrapolation - thats my calculations.

/add: Just figured it out. You select MPEG-2, not SVCD. Maybe D2S doesn't take that into account?

Talking about testing old versions, some of you may want try out this demo: cce 2.64.01.10 (http://home.tiscali.no/tylohome/cce_demos/ccspt2.64.01.10.exe) (last of the 2.64 series). Lately, 2.50 has been freezing up on me, but this works great with D2S. :) . You must use the latest plugin version (v3.0.8), and without EclCCE. Sorry about the all to frequent updates lately, but now I hope to give it a rest.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
- AFAIK, its not possible to uncheck 'Align sequence headers' in the bbmpeg menu, so I don't know what you mean.
Yes, you can. Just select DVD temporaryly and you're done. Then switch back to SVCD.
- I am using D2S's computation and then extrapolation - thats my calculations.
Uh... Maybe it's a D2S thing then?

[windtrader]

Hi Tylo,

I installed v3.0.8 and noticed when using D2SRoBa in DVD output mode, AutoQ and Max Q are now disabled in the GUI per your fixes but when DVD2DVD starts the RoBa log shows AutoQ and MaxQ values that were "stuck"/greyed from the GUI.

It might be misleading to see the values in the log if they are not used. Maybe you can blank them out, put 'na' or remove the line altogether.

Also, the Audio after video and adjust max br lines are not user settable in the GUI for DVDs yet they show up with values of No in the log. If these don't apply for DVD, maybe these lines should be removed from the log as well.

Very minor nits but thought I would mention them anyway.

Thanks

[tylo]

Yep, it shows that the plugin has reached a mature state when such request are made. I'll do those and some other polishing for the next 3.1 release when 3.0.8 is proven stable.

And now a huge thanks to paceri who made complete new set of pages for me. Check them out!

@paceri: I didn't get the files in the archive to work (the include of top/style/bottom seems to fail). However, I took down the pages from your site instead (which had style inlined), and that worked.

[VILLA21]

Just tried 3.0.8 with CCE-2.5, but unfortunately CCE terminated when D2SRoBa opened it. Now i"m testing with CCE 2.67.00.13 and seems it runs smoothly, it reaches to 30%.

[DDogg]

VILLA21, just to cover the obvious things...Did you make sure and check "AddResampleAudio" when using CCE 2.5? Tylo may be checking for this by now. If it is not checked CCE 2.5 will not work and disappears when d2sroba tries to start it.

[VILLA21]

Originally posted by DDogg
VILLA21, just to cover the obvious things...Did you make sure and check "AddResampleAudio" when using CCE 2.5? Tylo may be checking for this by now. If it is not checked CCE 2.5 will not work and disappears when d2sroba tries to start it.

Long time to use DVD2SVCD, but i think this bug was fixed:

"28 aug 2003 version 1.2.1 build 1
- Bug fix: In the former version, if you were using CCE you had to enabled "Add ResampleAudio" in the frameserver tab. That was a bug I had introduced, which in this release have been fixed."

I"m using the latest 1.2.1 b3, so i didn"t check "AddResampleAudio", am i missing something? Anyway, i "ll try again tonight with "Add ResampleAudio" checked.

[DDogg]

am i missing something? Yep, but it is real convoluted to explain. Just make sure it is checked when you use 2.5
Search this thread about three weeks back? Right about the time he added 2.5 support again. Tylo and I discussed it because I had the same problem as you. I do not know if he started checking for it or not.

[tylo]

I'm not checking for the "Add ResampleAudio". It's only needed with CCE 2.5 and AMD CPUs, but I could check it in the next release - only when using 2.5, but I won't test for CPU type. Wouldn't think it slows down the avs script anyway.

@paceri: thanks.

[Trahald]

the addaudio script in the cce faq is better since it works for all versions of avisynth /cce (resample doesnt work for avisynth 2.5/ cce 2.50 combo)

as far as the overmax bitrate issue with cce. i did some testing (like for 4 hours) and didnt get far. (ugh) i did find out that pulldown makes the bitrates tht bitrateviewer gives you exagerated. so the clips were not as overbitrate as they appeared. however, they were still over.. but i cant remember what file i clip of video i used (was just an extra from one of my dvds) that went over. with 2.66 and 2.50 , all the clips i tested ,scenarist accepted. bitrate viewer called some oversized, and they were just the 2.66 ones. the 2.50's were within range (even using the same .ecl). but bitrate viewer isnt the most accurate so im inclined to trust scenarist. im going to do a whole movie which would have more spots where there would be possible spikes. will report back.

[DDogg]

the addaudio script in the cce faq is better since it works for all versions of avisynth /cce (resample doesnt work for avisynth 2.5/ cce 2.50 combo)
Not as it seems :). Ah, another one of those arcane history tidbits that I seem to be good for :) er, ah, how do I explain this... the ReSampleAudio statement in newer versions of dvd2svcd are not the same as the old ReSampleAudio. Note he also imports a function which is the same function as addaudio(), but he calls it ResampleAudio. A function takes precedence over a command so he was able to use the words ReSampleAudio as before (for compatibility reasons), but it actually calls the addaudio() method. I think I did a crap job of explaining that, but maybe it makes some sense.

Again, the bottomline is - if you use CCE 2.5 you must check ResampleAudio in the frameserver tab. Like tylo alluded to, it does not slow anything down so you might as well just leave it checked if you go back and forth between 2.5 and later versions of CCE that do not really need it.

[syzygytec]

Thanks w00kie for your testing waiting to see how this turns out. Now since all the problems I have had all these failures with biterate too high I decided to try multi-pass 3 pass cce 2.50 max bitrate set to 9000 cd size 4480 I've had 2 complete with no problem and hands down by a landslide they both look far better than OPV. Bitrate shouldn't be over 9448 but on the one it peaked at 9681 according to BV but everyone seems to agree that BV is not all that accurate so I won't worry about that. It takes way longer but I think Im sticking with 3pass & cce 2.50.

[AllanonJL]

After using this plugin and reducing encoding time by a factor of 2, i'm pleased with the results!

The one issue I have is how to determine the final bitrate of the movie!

Where is it in the logs? Usually you can find the average bitrate in the svcdinfo.txt. I notice that it only has low and max bitrate there.

Also, I followed the install instructions that were scattered across posts, and it all seemed to work out. If there was a file with the instructions that would be great!

I'm also a bit confused about the Q factor. Does the Q factor determine the bitrate or?

Thanks!

[bobwillis]

AllanonJL,

This answer applies to DVD mode, where the Q is iteratively determined in order to fit a certain output size. The lower the Q factor, the higher the average bitrate and the better the quality of the encode.

Due to the nature of OPV encoding the exact bitrate is unknown prior to the encode. Only the target bitrate is stated.

The target average bitrate is contained in the file D2SRoBa_log.txt. You will find such a line:

- Target mpv BR : 4738 (max 9500) kbps, size=4398545990. bytes

Of course, this is just the target figure. The final bitrate will be close (usually within 5%) and can be calculated from this information (divide 4498303444 by the movie's length in seconds):

- Actual mpv file size:
10/12/2003 21:24 4498303444 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL.mpv
- OPV pass result: 102.3% on target ( 4498303444 / 4398545990.) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.95

If you invoke the additional resizing pass then the final bitrate is explicitly stated (within 0.1% in this case):

- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 4738 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
10/12/2003 23:31 4395231788 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 99.9% on target ( 4395231788 / 4398545990.) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.97

The fact that you are asking these questions highlights just how good D2SRoBa actually is (thanks Tylo). In other words, it can be used by a comparative beginner - well done.

As for some instructions, http://www.geocities.com/syzygydvd/help/index.htm is a very good guide for DVD users.

Best regards,
Bob

[windtrader]

syzygytec: It takes way longer but I think Im sticking with 3pass & cce 2.50.
You have got to be kidding! After all the time and energy you've spent on OPV, including the great guide you put together, you now have an epiphany that good old 3-pass MPV is better?

I've been lurkin' and workin' here for the past few days and finally got everything going smoothly with OPV yesterday on DVD to DVD-R. Plan to OPV a few movies later today.

Previously, I had been using 3-pass MPV DVD2DVD and was happy with the results; yes, it takes a fair bit of time but that was not a sreious issue for me. Then I see D2SRoBa with FACAR and read it works as well and in much less time. Sounds like a winner to me.

Admittedly, I've not taken the time to critically compare any OPV vs 3-pass MPV rips, so I can not convey my own experiences. I've been going off what others have posted here. And I am a total dumbsheet about the theory behind all this to make any kind of informed position on the merits of OPV vs MPV.

So, I pose to you experienced ones, how much quality does one really give up (gain) with OPV vs MPV? :devil:

[bobwillis]

Re: OPV vs 3 pass VBR Quality (DVDs)

I have found that for OPV high Q (>40) encodes, it is definitely benificial from a quality point of view to perform the additional VBR sizing pass. The quality difference between the two was easily discernable; so in future I will always be enabling the resizing pass.

I have yet to perform an OPV (+resize) vs 3 pass VBR comparison for a low Q (<30) movie; but the OPV ones that I have done look acceptable to me.

Over the next couple of days, I will try Shackleton in OPV + VBR resize mode (3 hrs 40 mins long, >8GB) and report my findings.

Syzygytec did you perform the additional re-sizing VBR pass on your OPV encodes? If so, I am suprised you can see such a large difference. Perhaps you have better eyes / playback equipment than me.

Regards,
Bob

P.S. I also found in OPV mode (without the resizing pass), that v2.66.01.07 outperformed v2.50

[syzygytec]

I dunno guys it kinda just jumped out and bit me on the arse and the only reason I did MPV was all the muxing failures I've been having with OPV, or I would have never bothered with MPV I LOVE D2SRoBa but it seems CCE no matter 2.50/2.67 I have tried is exceeding it's bitrate confines on low-q movies. The last OPV I had complete w/o failing mux due to too high bitrate was X2 I will be doing this movie again tonite with 2.50, (last was 2.67) I'll do 3 pass VBR and then go do a back to back comparison on my friends 43" Sony and see what looks better to me OPV 2.67 or MPV 2.50 btw we both thought the first X2 was indistinguishable from the original. I'm adding new sections to my guide, for MPV and also SVCD OPV RoBa and MPV as well don't know when I'll finish...it all starts to blend together after staring at it too long..BTW current guide is totally updated ALL new screenies too

(I have alot of ideas for testing this low q cce BUT too damn slow of PC and I think the only way to test it is doing complete movies)

For now for those doing roba and using SS to mux if you fail try lower maxbitrate and maybe CD size 4350 honestly if all worked right you should be able to choose 4480 and max bitrate of 9000 and not go ovesize or over bitrate. I think (but never tried) DVD-Lab or DVDAuthor and maybe other might have muxed and built the one's SS failed BUT don't think they would have played in a standalone.

PS this stuff is making me nuts!
PPS I think maybe Bitrate Viewer is worthless
PPPS Waiting for a OPV plugin for TMPG Enc Plus

[DDogg]

Hmmm, well there may well be a new option for dvd creation by dvd2svcd fairly soon that will get around the cantankerous Scenarist. It is in the very early testing phase. If all works out, and it looks like it will, we will have a dvd2XXXx with an easily available and free DVD authoring solution complete with multiple subs and ISO build. As for when, as always, it is when he gets it finished.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by AllanonJL
Also, I followed the install instructions that were scattered across posts, and it all seemed to work out. If there was a file with the instructions that would be great!
As jsoto said in another thread, it is not polite to advertise oneself, but there is a FAQ in Tylo's home page, resources section.
I'm also a bit confused about the Q factor. Does the Q factor determine the bitrate or?
Again unpolitely, ;) the Idiot's Guide should clear the whole thing about Q, RoBa and even this yet-another-OPV-vs-Multipass thing. :D

[syzygytec]

All I can say to that is ones that failed in SS muxed in what I think your referring to BUT did not work right. I don't know the specs on DVD's compliance but going on an assumption that there must be a bitrate limit I trust SS to know it (it's the defacto)and even if it muxes in some other software it may be non-compliant and not play that would be my idiot guess

[windtrader]

I have found that for OPV high Q (>40) encodes, it is definitely benificial from a quality point of view to perform the additional VBR sizing pass.
Bob - so to force this second pass using OPV you just check the conditional sizing pass box and set both under and over size to 0, right?

Also, I see the calculated Q in the D2SRoBa log. Is there another way to establish the Q before I kick off D2SRoBa?

r6d2 - I'll take a look at those references again. I'm pretty sure I scanned them over before but my pea brain can only digest so much at one setting. And getting through this is more than one meal for me. :-)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by windtrader
Bob - so to force this second pass using OPV you just check the conditional sizing pass box and set both under and over size to 0, right?
You might do that, but if you're using Qs above 40 you'll find that the more passes you do the more benefit, to a certain limit of course, since you are in a tight BR constraint environment.

If you are headed for size, and hence want Qs above 40, I suggest you use D2S normal multipass instead. This, however, will not give you the benefit of a quantization (measured with BR Viewer) below 5 or 6, which is IMHO a reasonable value.
Also, I see the calculated Q in the D2SRoBa log. Is there another way to establish the Q before I kick off D2SRoBa?
Well, sort of the whole point of RoBa is to find a suitable Q, since it is hard to guess. (Maybe I misunderstood your question.)

[windtrader]

Well, sort of the whole point of RoBa is to find a suitable Q, since it is hard to guess. (Maybe I misunderstood your question.)
I was thinking if the number of passes is dependent on Q, then knowing Q before you kick off D2SRoBa would be desirable, since you would set sizing pass on or off based on Q.

It seems a bit convoluted, if even practical, to set up and start D2SRoBa and DVD2DVD then wait until the sampling and computation of Q before deciding if you need the sizing pass.

Alternately, if you always default to forcing the sizing pass (under/over size to zero), then you are decreasing the time advantage over a 3-pass VBR reencode.

Maybe you can estimate Q or use some other measure like movie duration to determine if you want the sizing pass.

[syzygytec]

Manually find Q from mpegit.net paceri
This is very important thing, so get a pen and paper! Now that CCE has encoded 1% of the movie, check out the size of the MPV-file and myltibly it by 100! The desired file size -> Movie+ac3 = 4.38 GB! For example if you got a AC3-file size of 300 Mb, you'll have approximately 4 GB room for the videodata. So you have to do MPV-file size of approximately 4 GB (now only 4GB/100=40MB!)! How can we do this? You can find it out by using a little of math:

1.) Q=32 file size < desired size-> set Q value to (0+32)/2=16
2.) Q=16 file size > desired size -> set Q value to (16+32)/2=24
3.) Q=24 file size > desired size -> set Q value to (24+32)/2=28
4.) Q=28 file size < desired size -> set Q value to (24+28)/2=26
5.) Q=26 file size < desired size -> set Q value to (24+26)/2=25
6.) Q=25 file size = desired size -> the right value of Q is 25!

It may seem that it's hard and time-consuming, but it isn't that. You have to do the operation max six times, but it may take even less if you find the right 'Q' value right away. By the way, you don't need to exit from CCE while you're searching the right 'Q' value. You just need to change the 'Q' value, save the changes and press 'Encode'...
If that mathematical part seems too hard for you, then here's easier way. If you set smaller 'Q' value, the file size will increase and if you set higher 'Q' value the file size will decrease. By chancing the 'Q' value you can find the right one.
I've noticed that it's better to find a 'Q' value which makes slightly bigger file than the desired file is. When you encode whole 100% of the movie, it's usual 8-10% smaller than it should be. It's good to add that 8-10% to the desired file size. For example if you want to have file size of 4000 Mb, you should find a 'Q' value which makes it approximately 4300-4400 Mb.

http://www.mpegit.net/dvdr_opv.php

[tylo]

I was thinking if the number of passes is dependent on Q, then knowing Q before you kick off D2SRoBa would be desirable, since you would set sizing pass on or off based on Q.I could add another constraint for doing sizing pass: Q above a certain number.
Then you wouldn't need to do all that above.
If that mathematical part seems too hard for you, then here's easier way. If you set smaller 'Q' value, the file size will increase and if you set higher 'Q' value the file size will decrease. By chancing the 'Q' value you can find the right one. Yes, but by how much should you change the Q? I have found a way to guess it with very good accuracy:

nextQ = Q + (1.5 * Q * (fileSize - desiredSize)/desiredSize)

You will actually find the target Q within 2 to 4 iterations, and not 6, as with the binary search - and also works for high Qs. Try it!
ps: be aware that if you are aiming at bitrates near max/maxavg (low Qs), this won't work so well, because the Q func is very unlinear there.

[windtrader]

I could add another constraint for doing sizing pass: Q above a certain number.
Tylo, GREAT. That feature would make it totally painless and automatic, and enable even more flexibility and control over the final quality. It gives the user the ability to easily define and set their own optimal point on the "quality" vs "time" curve.

If one is in a hurry, the user can still manually uncheck the conditional pass box. It seems like you would implement it as another OR condition along with the under/over size settings.

[DDogg]

Over the next couple of days, I will try Shackleton in OPV + VBR resize mode (3 hrs 40 mins long, >8GB) and report my findings. bobwillis, loolking forward to the results of your tests.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by windtrader
Tylo, GREAT. That feature would make it totally painless and automatic, and enable even more flexibility and control over the final quality. It gives the user the ability to easily define and set their own optimal point on the "quality" vs "time" curve.
And would bring back VBR to D2Sroba, which was exiled for some versions but still deserves its place. :D
:goodpost:

[syzygytec]

Not sure I ever got an answer to this..but if you uncheck the sizing pass what keeps you from oversize?

Also note on the too HIGH bitrate muxing failed....same deal in scenarist 3.0 for what its worth FYI

[r6d2]

Originally posted by syzygytec
Not sure I ever got an answer to this..but if you uncheck the sizing pass what keeps you from oversize?
In that case you are in The Lord's hands.

[bobwillis]

Hi syzygytec,

Quote: Not sure I ever got an answer to this..but if you uncheck the sizing pass what keeps you from oversize?

I think (from my experience), the answer is unfortunately nothing, unless you alter the adjust Q figure. A value of 0, should hopefully prevent an oversize. My experiments suggest that you should always perform the additional VBR sizing pass in order to acheive maximum quality from this OPV method.

Shackleton (3 hrs 25mins >8GB) unfortunately turned out to be a high Q encode (56), it is burning now. I'll let you know the results tomorrow morning (12 hrs from now).

@Tylo:

Unfortunately, the encode ended up oversized - 4,709,474,304 bytes. This is no big problem, since I deleted the last VOB in order to burn for testing purposes. This was with the additional sizing pass enabled. I don't think this is your problem; more a problem with CCE. I think this because it happened with standard DVD2DVD (3 pass VBR) weeks ago. I'll post the log though so you can evaluate for yourself:

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0.8
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.75.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-12-12 15:54:16
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 40 / 100
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (-0.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 03:25:38 (308453 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (224 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2744 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 6180
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2744 (2744) audio1_br=224 video_sz=4231975160. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 2744 (max 9500) kbps, size=4231975160. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 4820 (Q=25, err=75.7%, size=7435008410., sample sz=148963868.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2881 (Q=53, err=5.0%, size=4444474721., sample sz=89047128.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2811 (Q=55, err=2.4%, size=4335843963., sample sz=86870660.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2743 (Q=57, err=-0.0%, size=4231691263., sample sz=84783912.)
- Determined Q : 56 = round(57 - 1.0 + (-0.0)/1.2)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-12 16:42:42
- Actual mpv file size:
12/12/2003 19:24 4067382664 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL.mpv
- OPV pass result: 96.1% on target ( 4067382664 / 4231975160.) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.27
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 2744 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
12/12/2003 22:04 4231168940 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 4231168940 / 4231975160.) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.28
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-12-12 22:05:01

Regards,
Bob.

[Trahald]

the little plugin i made for myself for docce4u does a calculation everyother real 1% pass. . under q=10 i wont calculate. anywho i started using my quick plugin again and i just lower the max bitrate by 1000 kbps (probably overdoing it) ... seems to be fine.

i prefer the opv 1.) its faster. 2) i think the quality is excellent and imho better than a low multipass encode (3 and under) 3) its faster!

[manolito]

Posted by bobwillis
I have found that for OPV high Q (>40) encodes, it is definitely benificial from a quality point of view to perform the additional VBR sizing pass. The quality difference between the two was easily discernable; so in future I will always be enabling the resizing pass.
My experiments suggest that you should always perform the additional VBR sizing pass in order to acheive maximum quality from this OPV method.
Posted by tylo
I could add another constraint for doing sizing pass: Q above a certain number.
For a Q value over 40 even r6d2 now recommends using a traditional multipass VBR encode instead of a OPV with an optional VBR sizing pass. Frankly, I have a little problem here to understand how this could be true.

Up to now I thought there was a general agreement that the OPV method was inherently better than multipass VBR, because this method guarantees that the quality of your encode will never go beyond the Q you specified.

Of course, if the OPV pass comes out undersized, the VBR sizing pass will improve quality, but if the OPV encode is oversized, the sizing pass should decrease quality. In the (very unlikely) event that the OPV pass comes out at exactly 100%, how could the sizing pass (that uses the VAF from the OPV pass) possibly improve quality?

Or could it have something to do with CCE? There is a thread in the CCE section (remember Yuri?) where some people found that CCE 2.67 sometimes screws up a few frames, but that the problem goes away if you do more than one pass.


Confused
manolito

[syzygytec]

@w00kie I just noticed something and what if anything it means or why I don't know.
Encoded using TMPGEnc Plus

Same movie that I know has the too high bitrate problem, now on the final encoder mpv BV says
Resolution: 720*480
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 9000000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 10
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Progressive

encoded with CCE they always say 9800000 there. I have not idea why D2S set to 9000, CCE template set to 9000 whats with the 9800?
Well on this movie that I know will for sure go to high on bitrate I'm going to try RoBa OPV tonite and lower the 9000 to 8200 and see if 1) Nom Bitrate comes out to be 9000000 and 2) if SS finishes.

[windtrader]

My experiments suggest that you should always perform the additional VBR sizing pass in order to acheive maximum quality from this OPV method.

If you always do the sizing pass, then this method really is no longer a one pass solution; it is in fact 2 pass.

I also wonder what is going on in the "sizing" CCE pass. If it only adjusts the size a few percentage points to fit the target media, then I am not all that convinced one would visually see much difference. If you folks do see a measurable difference than it makes me think the "sizing" pass is doing more, probably what a multipass VBR method does.

[r6d2]

OK, let's try it to put it in one single post so everybody can grasp the logic behind it (and even destroy the logic with better logic.)
;)
Originally posted by manolito
For a Q value over 40 even r6d2 now recommends using a traditional multipass VBR encode instead of a OPV with an optional VBR sizing pass. Frankly, I have a little problem here to understand how this could be true.
It's always about bitrate. The higher the BR, the higher the output quality caeteris paribus (i.e., with same number of passes).

OPV is better than VBR when Q<40. The CCE manual explains why: 1~40, Priority is given to image quality over compression rate.

When you are encoding in low BR conditions, like 1 CD for instance, you are likely to get a Q>40. In this case, doing more passes may improve the quantization distribution, but you will have a high quantization average anyway. The best you can get is a very uniform quantization as result. Probably some difficult parts will look slightly better because CCE will have time to redistribute more the scarcely available bitrate here and there. But just distribute bitrate, not create more. And it's always about bitrate.

Up to now I thought there was a general agreement that the OPV method was inherently better than multipass VBR, because this method guarantees that the quality of your encode will never go beyond the Q you specified.
OPV is better than VBR, but that is not the reason. With VBR and enough space known in advance, Q will also be within the limits you need.

The actual reason is that OPV will do faster what VBR takes several passes to achieve. But the ultimate goal of both is the same: a leveled quantization given the space constraints. They are just different approaches to the same goal, but the generated stream has the same structure, etc. Don't look at them as so different animals after all.

Ask yourself this question: If I had infinite disk space, or better: If I could buy CDs of any size and just pay for the minute (1 minute=10-MB). Which encoding method would I use?

The answer would likely be: the one that in the least time possible will give me the quality I prefer.

That is OPV.

Now, CDs come in 80 minutes only (let’s forget other custom sizes for the sake of argument). So, you got this tool from Tylo that, in auto mode, estimates how many CDs are needed. Suppose the answer is 1.5 CDs for a certain movie. Why waste 0.5 CD? So, Tylo improves the quality beyond your request to use that available space. But Tylo could be cheating, and you’d never know if that extra half CD was filled or not. :D:D:D
Of course, if the OPV pass comes out undersized, the VBR sizing pass will improve quality, but if the OPV encode is oversized, the sizing pass should decrease quality.
Yes, but in either case quality will be higher than the one you were willing to accept, and probably to distinguish too, so don’t worry and be happy.
In the (very unlikely) event that the OPV pass comes out at exactly 100%, how could the sizing pass (that uses the VAF from the OPV pass) possibly improve quality?
IMHO it won’t, it is always about bitrate.
But I have no reason to doubt on other people’s findings. So let’s assume quality may be better after 9 passes (perhaps not), but when quantization is high, not matter how uniform it is, quality is not the best you can get so it doesn't matter how many passes you do. It will never be better than an encode with Q<40 with OPV.
If you're going for quality, don't go over the 40 threshold. If you are going for size, and want a Q>40, you don't really need D2Sroba on its current state.

[bobwillis]

Originally posted by windtrader
[B]If you always do the sizing pass, then this method really is no longer a one pass solution; it is in fact 2 pass. /B]

Correct. Just like 3 pass VBR is in fact 4 passes because of the initial .vaf file generation pass.

The OPV + the additional VBR resizing pass is really a VBR encode but using the OPV pass as a .vaf generation stage.

I'll try and explain that more clearly; the OPV pass generates the .vaf file which the additional VBR pass then uses.

This is why the two give distinctive results. OPV without the resizing pass is just what it says One Pass Variable (Bit-rate) encoding.
OPV + the VBR resizing pass is really VBR but using a .vaf file generated by the OPV pass.
The two are really quite different techniques.

All my eyes have told me so far is that Q>40 in single OPV mode is quite poor quality. This is no surprise, it is stated as such in the CCE manual. So what you really need for a high Q encode is VBR. VBR requires a .vaf file before encoding can begin. OPV creates such a .vaf file, so why not use that? Hence the OPV + VBR resizing technique.

I hope that clears things up a bit?

Regards,
Bob

[r6d2]

@Tylo,

I've been thinking of the possible usefulness of a Range Q mode. I expose here to submit the idea to public scrutiny. ;)

Assumptions:
[list=1]
D2Sroba is mainly a quality encoding tool.
Auto Q=~33 or so is a good superior limit.
Normally it is hard to spot quality differences below Q = ~ 15.
When Q is around a value below Auto Q/2, you are likely to get 1 more CD.
[/list=1]
Suggestion:
What if we could set a range Q mode, meaning a Q outside which it will not be recommended to increase the CD count in auto mode?

Or in other words: I want my encode in the [15-35] range. If the obtained Q is below the minimum, use KISS (UnDot()+Deen()) and start over again. It is very likely you'll get Q ~ 30 now, using 1 less CD and investing more time but with no noticeable quality loss.

[tylo]

Hmm. Not a bad idea. You first want a go without filters, (implying that this always gives a better result?), and then as a second attempt with filters to see if that squeezes it into the desired num CDs?

Another way to look at it:
- The very first sample encode in auto mode uses Q=Auto Q.
- If estim. bitrate for that is a reasonable small amount (or %) above the target bitrate for either 1, 2, etc CDs, we add the filters and try again, hoping that this time the estim. bitrate will jump under the target bitrate for the desired num CDs.

Note: this will only take one sample encoding extra.

If this should be done, where and how should the filters be inserted in the avs script?

PS: v3.1.0 is uploaded. Added Q > X contraint to Sizing pass.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Hmm. Not a bad idea. You first want a go without filters, (implying that this always gives a better result?)
KISS at least is very good at reducing noise without other impact. In fact, the cleaner the source, the less compression KISS produces. (I use it sometimes to measure the noise). ;)

KISS is very good in general, and I don't use it always just because it sucks at speed. But I'd be willing to sacrifice speed for media when doing SVCDs, particularly if otherwise the Q would be ridiculously low.
If this should be done, where and how should the filters be inserted in the avs script?
After IVTC and before cropping. I could implement a KISS flag in FACAR, so no matter where you put the "global KISS=1", it would work (if before FACAR, of course) :).

However, it would be nice if the implementation was resizer-tool independant. I think the best would be to look for the crop line and put it before that. If there is no crop line, the resizer line, if there is no that one either, I guess it does not matter :), just before the ResampleAudio would do.

To support FACAR, it would be cleaner to uncomment preresize.avs, and let the user put there the dirty stuff, whatever he might want. ;)

[syzygytec]

Great Tylo will be trying it tonite with my above bitrate idea that probably means nothing anyway.

Now a little off topic but I must say using D2S for DVD2DVD I really must say I can't get a bad encode they all look fantastic actually.
Over the past 3 weeks I've been using 3 movies to test T3, Matrix2, and X2 all in the 2 to 2.5 hour range.
I've tried RoBa OPV with CCE 2.50 & 2.67
MPV 3pass with CCE 2.50 & 2.67
and most recently 2 pass TMPG Plus on T3 and TMPG DVD Author to finish it and it looks damn fine too, just took forever 10 hrs on the encode alone. I have a slow PC Pegasys reports a 35-40% increase in speed on p4 hyper-threading processors, I'd say anyone with a p4 HT looking for an affordable movie only backup solution should definately look into D2S/FACAR/TMPG 2 passvbr/TMPG DVD Author and not ignore them getting hooked on the BIG names...just my 2 idiot cents, me...well still haven't got to my friends high end home theater system yet I think they all look fine maybe I can make a decision on a 43" Sony hooked to the DVD Player via composite video cables as to what looks best to me, we will scrutinize them, frame by frame through fire and explosions the usuall stuff looking for bad stuff.

[DDogg]

tylo, do you class 3.08 as a full and stable release? If so, perhaps it would be good to declare it as such and just maintain and fix bugs that pop up. Then any of this other wormy stuff could be done as an alternate branch labeled, "Non-Stable and experimental release not for general consumption" ? I don't know how you feel about dealing with two sources, but if acceptable to you, it might solve a lot of problems and frustrations for the mass majority of users who would probably find 3.08 more than satisfactory for 99% of their needs.

Heck, personally for SVCD if I see a Q32 over 7.25 megs for a one disk encode I just stop the process, add any filters I want (or increment an additional disk), and do a restart. At some stage the user needs to know a little something about the process. I don't think it possible, even for you, to provide a solution for every possible permutation that might be requested. Especially without breaking something. :)

[r6d2]

Not attempting to refute my mentor, ;) but several of the features currently supported by D2Sroba came from a can of worms. I’m sure forgetting some of them, but they are at least:
[list=1]
Originally referred to as “Really worst Q”, today named “Max Q”, which eliminated the need for custom BR limits (and their hard coded values into the plugin) ;)
Optional sizing pass.
Audio after video.
Video maximum BR auto adjust.
Equally sized images on unfilled media.
Video BR extrapolated based on D2S’s for any number of CDs.
Newton method.
[Add:]Range mode reduced to [n,n+1] media.
[/list=1]
This “Not better than this Q” parameter is a new mode of operation, which might be called “Auto+”. It needs not be to a threat to current stability.

Software tools are live entities, particularly when they show progress and cover an interesting need.

It might be a good idea, as DDogg suggests, to start a new Beta branch, but for what I know about Tylo, real programmers don’t do code freezes. :D:D:D

[tylo]

You both have good points. An addition like the one discussed would be experimental indeed (and maybe only useful for few), so I won't rush into it - maybe never..

- 3.0.8 - stable
- 3.1.0 - added extra Q>X test for doing sizing pass. Another change I did: NumCDs take priority over Max Q: If Max Q was set low in 3.0.8, it wouldn't go over that even if it didn't fit num CDs, leading to oversized images. Max Q is currently only used for '?' mode, and could be taken out altogether (it was originally there only to set the search range for the binary Q search algorithm).

The functionality and behaviour of the last version will be frozen. I.e. If 3.10 has no other issues, I'll freeze that.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Max Q is currently only used for '?' mode, and could be taken out altogether (it was originally there only to set the search range for the binary Q search algorithm).
IIRC, you still need it in '?' mode anyway to avoid the BR limits from the early days. (Unless you have already thought of it and have a solution.)

[Trahald]

Could you setup a link for the stable version on the website?

[telemike]

I got a problem. If I am connected to the internet and try to start a download, D2SRoba detects the download window as a CCE windiow and messes up the processes. :(

[Holomatrix]

Originally posted by r6d2
Or in other words: I want my encode in the [15-35] range. If the obtained Q is below the minimum, use KISS (UnDot()+Deen()) and start over again. It is very likely you'll get Q ~ 30 now, using 1 less CD and investing more time but with no noticeable quality loss.
I would like to see this type of automatic filter flexibility as well because there are some instances also that I find just don't need filtering to accomplish accurate low Q satisfaction, and for you to implement a "if desired Q is within acceptable quality without filters then don't apply filters" option, would be great. Since we've decided that 1-2% sample is adequate then this wouldn't take much extra time. Just when I though this s**t couldn't get any better :):)

[syzygytec]

Since not to many people are doing DVD2DVD the bitrate too high on low q's issue has not come out much, how far if it can even be determined has not either, setting a lower max bitrate seems to be a fix but not one I like, maybe good for a calm movie but for instance on a high action movie ie: T3 according to BV I have a max in the area of 8400+ with max set to 8200 and it did complete without the too high bitrate failure but on the same movie 3pass vbr max set at 9000(not effected by the low q cce bitrate misbehavior) the max went to
9600+ ( these are BV's reading so...probably nt accurate but good for illustration)
What I'm saying is that by setting the max lower you just taking away from scenes that could have used more, if it's going to be visually noticable I don't know yet as I've not done a viewing test.
Also you will have a lower avg. As far as the second pass being forced in opv roba to "straighten things out" I dont think that will straighten out the over bitrate in fact it never has.

I did some tight settings to and hit 100% on pass 2
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 2.0% or > 0.0% from target sz - or Q > 40)
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No

- Movie length : 01:49:00 (156808 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 5167 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 3144
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=5167 (5167) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4224156114. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 5167 (max 8200) kbps, size=4224156114. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2979 (Q=13, err=-42.3%, size=2435834524., sample sz=48838476.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4094 (Q=6, err=-20.8%, size=3347008905., sample sz=67107520.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5876 (Q=1, err=13.7%, size=4804575175., sample sz=96331720.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5093 (Q=3, err=-1.4%, size=4164147762., sample sz=83491152.)
- Determined Q : 2 = round(3 - 1.0 + (-1.4)/7.6)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-14 01:39:54
- Actual mpv file size:
12/14/2003 03:33 AM 4313170356 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 102.1% on target ( 4313170356 / 4224156114.) CCE 2.50 speed: 0.96
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 5167 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
12/14/2003 05:25 AM 4223958400 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 4223958400 / 4224156114.) CCE 2.50 speed: 0.97

final image 4,684,949,504 bytes a very full dvd

@telemike? using your PC while encoding? not something I'd ever do anyway.

[DDogg]

Hey, I'm not suggesting these ideas are not good ones. They are potentially very good if they work out. All I was suggesting is to provide a link to a declared stable version, as well as an alternative 'in progress' version. Frankly I want to see more mainstream users experiencing d2sroba. I think this is one way to cause that to happen. It might be good to even to have separate threads where stable build users can report or ask questions. Dunno for sure on that as I have not thought it out completely.

[syzygytec]

OK now more interesting stuff on max bitrate and nombitrate and no clue what it all means. I ran into this making a TMPGEnc DVD Author Guide:

*The combined bitrate of the clip exceeds the upper limit for a standard DVD
The current bitrate is video: 9800kbps, audio: 448kbps, combined: 10248kbps
The combined audio and video bitrate can be no more than 9.848Mbps (9848kbps)

From the DVD Author help:
For a standard DVD, it is necessary with a combined bitrate (video and audio) lower than 9.8Mbps (9848kbps).
With a bitrate higher than 9.8Mbps it becomes a nonstandard DVD, and we cannot guarantee that this will play correctly in a DVD player.
If you are making a non-standard DVD, it might be different from the specifications that your DVD player supports. Please check the maximum supported bitrate of your DVD player.
If you are re-encoding to the appropriate bitrate for Linear PCM audio, AC-3 audio (max 448 kbps), and mp2 audio (Max 384 kbps) the bitrate should be within the limit.
Please also make sure that the combined bitrate for the captured clip is within the limit.


Well now that speaks back on what I noticed yeterday where bitrate viewer said the NomBitrate was 9000 on the TMPG encode, my idea of lower the max by 800 didn't affect this
the cce encode still reads 9800 NomBitrate in BV and now DVD Author barks about it
Whats this all mean? what is Nominal bitrate I'm pretty damn sure the movie dooesnt go over 9848 at least BV came up with a peak of 9200+ and SS didn't fail muxing. So it's reading that nom bitrate figure somewhere
and translating that as the video max.
Man it is wierd. Just some more of my wierdness probably noone reads anyway

Anyway DVD Author gives you an Ignore button and I think it is safe to do so. Just wish I knew what it all means.

[DDogg]

syzygytec, forgive me if I missed it. My eyes are hurting today. What minimum have you been using with these tests for Low Q CCE OPV>DVD? I hope nothing under 2000?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by syzygytec
Man it is wierd. Just some more of my wierdness probably noone reads anyway.
@syzygytec,

I'm sure many people here read your posts throughly (at least I know I do). ;)

The fact that you feel preaching on the desert has to do with you being way ahead of several of us here. We don't do advanced stuff like you. We are just cheap guys who don't have a DVD burner and the money to buy DVD media. ;)

But I know this for sure: both CCE and TMPGEnc are good at keeping the parameters entered. Just make sure they are spec abiding.

Also, I bet 10 to 1 you cannot tell a max=8000 from a max=9000 DVD encode visually. In fact, Q ~ 30 will give you a max ~ 4000 or 5000.

Don't trust everything BR Viewer says.

Hope this helps.

[DDogg]

Isn't his point that scenarist rejects the mpv because of too high bitrate spikes? I'm just now paying attention to this as is probably obvious. I did note when I had Q4 Min 200 Max 9000 that CCE 2.67 flashed a 10.4 under current bitrate as it was encoding. Oddly bitrate viewer only showed a peak of 7800 in the file. The docs very specifically say that checking DVD compliant should clamp the peaks, but it may not be so. When I do test DVD I normally only use a max of 8500 because that is what mrbass recommended for scenarist. That seemed to keep the spike down for me, but I have not done anything more than a cursory test.

r6d2, We (as in you :) ) probably ought to move this stuff to a separate thread?

[syzygytec]

Just for laughs and giggles I'm going to try unchecking DVD compliant because I wonder if maybe with it checked it ignores your max setting, allowing the video to peak to 9.8, but I've actually already proved that wrong bec. lowering the max did make the difference and it didn't go over 10mbps. Anyway so many contridictions aside for gigles Im going to uncheck DVD Compliant in the CCE template, set max to 9500 and go for it 9550 + 448 +9998 if it works as it should there should never be a problem, maybe thats cutting it a bit close and hoping for too much precision but in theory it should work, and still be compliant, with out the compliance switch.

EDIT:
Just trying to find something that works right everytime, I want my guide to be one anyone can follow and have it work everytime!

NOTE: Goes over set at 8500 for me

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
[B]Isn't his point that scenarist rejects the mpv because of too high bitrate spikes?
Scenarist may be a little too picky. But CCE handles OK the VBV. The fact that certain frames have spikes does not mean the stream is not compliant.
Oddly bitrate viewer only showed a peak of 7800 in the file.
You see? BR Viewer is not very precise. In fact, open twice in a row the very same file with it and you'll see it finds different values each time you run it.

[bobwillis]

RE: Bitrate

I've always used 0 (min) to 9500 (max) with both CCE v2.50, v2.66, OPV + resize, 3 pass VBR & scenarist with no problems. I've never had the DVD Compliant box ticked, since, I read somewhere (can't remember where) it reduced the quality! On one occasion, I tried 9800 and SS complained, so tried the same movie again with 9500 and it didn't have a problem.

In view of that, I can't understand the problems at your end.

Bob

[syzygytec]

Well Bob I value your posts your a smart guy, do me a favor and do Terminator 3 and check dvd compliant and see what happens or any movie that pulls a low q like 2 est. from robas search. thanks... I wonder if you don't have the problems maybe my ini's in d2s are messed up, I'm going to post them.
DVD2SVCD.INI
Removed

[syzygytec]

DVD.INI
Removed

[bobwillis]

Hi syzygytec,

I haven't compared them with yours. I'll leave that to you :). Unfortunately, I haven't got T3, but I promise that I will have a go with a low Q encode sometime in the week and report back to you.

Just to clarify, can you answer the following questions.
1. Does the problem occur with standard 3 pass VBR as well (no D2SRoBa, just DVD2DVD)?
2. Does it occur with OPV and no-resize?
3. Does it occur with OPV + resizing?
4. When the problem occurs was DVD Compliant checked?
5. Does it occur with both CCE v2.50 & v2.66?

Regards,
Bob

[bobwillis]

removed

Bob

[Trahald]

oh my

hrm

anyways.. about the drop of max bitrate. i dont notice a difference at all. i only drop the max 300 mb my last test and it went fine. i'
ll try my t2 as a test tomorrow night and report back. but honestly even high bitrate scenes dont suffer noticably at 8000+ range.. at least imho.

[syzygytec]

Just to clarify, can you answer the following questions.
1. Does the problem occur with standard 3 pass VBR as well (no D2SRoBa, just DVD2DVD)?
2. Does it occur with OPV and no-resize?
3. Does it occur with OPV + resizing?
4. When the problem occurs was DVD Compliant checked?
5. Does it occur with both CCE v2.50 & v2.66?

NO
YES
YES
YES
YES

Yikes maybe we should edit and get rid of those ini's bad idea, I have customized my rig extensivly but i doubt it's a cause of any problems

[bobwillis]

Thanks for the answers.

Regards,
Bob

[The Belgain]

I don't know if this has been answered already, but how exactly does the plugin choose the q after it's done all the testing passes? Here is the relevant part of the logfile from an AVI2DVD conversion of mine:



--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2469 (2469) audio1_br=384 video_sz=3846755240. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 2469 (max 9000) kbps, size=3846755240. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1582 (Q=28, err=-35.9%, size=2465635082., sample sz=49404944.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2322 (Q=14, err=-6.0%, size=3618408949., sample sz=72503548.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2622 (Q=11, err=6.2%, size=4085417582., sample sz=81861192.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2412 (Q=13, err=-2.3%, size=3758339201., sample sz=75307388.)
- Deriv. mpv BR : 2517 (Q=12, err=1.9%)
- Determined Q : 11 = round(12 - 1.0 + (1.9)/4.3)
--------------------------------------------------------


The plugin chose Q11 even though Q11 and Q12 are both oversized. Unsurprisingly the resulting encode was oversized. Is this how it's supposed to work? Could there maybe be a check to make sure that if there's an oversized Q already tested which is higher than the one it's about to pick, then it should pick that (ie in this case pick Q12 rather than Q11)?


edit: confusing typos

[tylo]

The plugin chose Q11 even though Q11 and Q12 are noth oversized. Unsurprisingly the resulting encode was oversized. Is this how it's supposed to work? Could there maybe be a check to make sure that if there's an oversized Q already tested which is higher than the one it's about to pick, then it should pick that (ie in this case pick Q12 rather than Q11)?Actually both Q11 and Q12 are oversized. Q13 is not. But we know that normally the actual Q will be nearly one Q less in size than the estimated size. In this case the plugin derives that Q12 is ~ 1.9% oversized, based on that Q11 is 6.2% oversized, and Q13 is 2.3% undersized. Q12 is chosen because it is closest to target: abs(1.9) < abs(-2.3).
The plugin calculates: round(12 - Q_adjust + 1.9/Q_step_percentage)
In your case: 12 - 1.0 + 0.44 = round(11.44)
Had you used Q adjust=0.8 or less, it would have kept 12.

But you're right, something is not as it should be still:
Q11 is 6.2% oversized, and one Q step is only 4.3%.
You had Q_adjust=1.0, so it shouldn't have determined a Q which was more than 4.3% oversized (i.e. Q_adjust * Q_step_percentage).
I'll see if it can be improved.

v3.1.1 uploaded: fixes conflict with CCE and Explorer download progress window.

[syzygytec]

Just for laughs and giggles I'm going to try unchecking DVD compliant because I wonder if maybe with it checked it ignores your max setting, allowing the video to peak to 9.8, but I've actually already proved that wrong bec. lowering the max did make the difference and it didn't go over 10mbps. Anyway so many contridictions aside for gigles Im going to uncheck DVD Compliant in the CCE template, set max to 9500 and go for it 9550 + 448 +9998 if it works as it should there should never be a problem, maybe thats cutting it a bit close and hoping for too much precision but in theory it should work, and still be compliant, with out the compliance switch.



Update: problem solved? can't say that, just one movie but it worked!

EDIT:
My mistake 9500 is too high: go with 9400 when adding a single 448kbps ac3 soundtrack adjust down or up accordingly for other soundtracks
*The combined bitrate of the clip exceeds the upper limit for a standard DVD
The current bitrate is video: 9800kbps, audio: 448kbps, combined: 10248kbps
The combined audio and video bitrate can be no more than 9.848Mbps (9848kbps)

From the DVD Author help:
For a standard DVD, it is necessary with a combined bitrate (video and audio) lower than 9.8Mbps (9848kbps).
With a bitrate higher than 9.8Mbps it becomes a nonstandard DVD, and we cannot guarantee that this will play correctly in a DVD player.
If you are making a non-standard DVD, it might be different from the specifications that your DVD player supports. Please check the maximum supported bitrate of your DVD player.
If you are re-encoding to the appropriate bitrate for Linear PCM audio, AC-3 audio (max 448 kbps), and mp2 audio (Max 384 kbps) the bitrate should be within the limit.
Please also make sure that the combined bitrate for the captured clip is within the limit.

[The Belgain]

@tylo:

Ok, thanks for that. I hadn't realised by the way that estimated size for Q12 in that example wasn't an estimation based on a sample pass, but simply a linear interpolation of the surrounding Q values.

By the way, other than that, it's an absolutely cracking plugin. Am very happy since in addition to this my CCE speeds seem to have increased substantially since yesterday for no particularly apparent reason. I'm not complaining...

[The Belgain]

Also, another problem I notices, which I'd forgotten about, is that the plugin seems to ignore the minimum bitrate set in DVD2SVCD. I've set in DVD2SVCD. I'm converting to DVD, and since I'm often getting undersizeing even at Q1 (on movies under 2 hours), I want to set the minimum bitrate to 2000 or so to hit the target size better.

Is this a known problem? I do realise this is probably due to the fact that people use it more for SVCD conversions than for DVD conversions.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by The Belgain
Is this a known problem? I do realise this is probably due to the fact that people use it more for SVCD conversions than for DVD conversions.
This is not a problem at all. If at Q=1 you get an undersized image, you cannot improve quality by increasing the min BR. You only increase the size, but artificially.

That is called a maxed out movie. You can try using a sharper resizer, like Lanczos, to keep more detail (provided you are resizing), but don't expect to use all the space just because it is there. Nothing better will come out of that, and you'll be just believeing it is.

[The Belgain]

So CBR 9000 won't be better quality than a Q1 encode of that same movie which maxes out at 3500? That's interesting. So is CCE just basically padding the CBR stream with redundant information to keep to 9000?

Isn't a higher min bitrate than for SVCD recommended for DVD anyway? Most of the posts I've read here on the subject seem to suggest 2000 or so min bitrate (for DVD bitrates in the 4000-6000 or so range). How about when the encode isn't maxed out (say Q10 or so). Would it be advantageous then to have a higher max bitrate? I think the plugin seems to be using a min bitrate of 300, which is very low for DVDs (and the Q1 encode does go that low quite often, looking at the bitrate in PowerDVD).

[r6d2]

Originally posted by The Belgain
So CBR 9000 won't be better quality than a Q1 encode of that same movie which maxes out at 3500?
Yes, it won't.
So is CCE just basically padding the CBR stream with redundant information to keep to 9000?
Yes, it is. But the best part of it is that the encoder may just put in filler data, just to keep the media rotating, but that information may not even be redundant, just garbage filling space.

Min BR exists because of physical player limitations. Some units have problems when the variance of speed is too high. They jerk or stall. But that does not have much to do with MPEG-2 specs for SVCD or DVD. The only thing that really matters is the VBV, and that is the encoder's responsibility. Rest assured encoders abide by that, otherwise they would produce uncompliant streams.

You can set min to 0 if your player supports it and you will have no problems at all.

Max BR, OTOH, exists to keep compliance (so the disk does not spin too fast), but it allows spikes.
I think the plugin seems to be using a min bitrate of 300, which is very low for DVDs (and the Q1 encode does go that low quite often, looking at the bitrate in PowerDVD).
PowerDVD's figures are also an approximation. Remember pulldown affects measured BR too.

It is wise to set the limits to those post's recommendations, but don't expect a quality increase. In OPV, BR is a result of expected quality, so if BR turns out to be 0 at times, that is what is needed at that part.

I'll quote one of Bach's posts to show how OPV works:
[list=1]
Get a frame
Encode with the desired Q.factor
if BR>MAX, forget Q and use MAX
if BR>MIN, forget Q and use MIN
Process next frame
[/list=1]

[syzygytec]

Min BR exists because of physical player limitations. Some units have problems when the variance of speed is too high. They jerk or stall. But that does not have much to do with MPEG-2 specs for SVCD or DVD.

I just learned something!!! so what is the recommended concensus best Min setting? 2000 please advise

[The Belgain]

According to r6d2, there shouldn't be any need for a min setting.

Is there no way of setting it in this plugin? I'm getting slightly jerky playback in my standalone (not too noticeable - I can see it but neither of my parents do). I've always attributes this to the fact that I'm playing back NTSC DVDs on a PAL player, but I would like to make sure it doesn't have anything to do with min bitrate (it probably doesn't seeing as this player isn't picky about things like this - eg it accepts high bitrate XSVCDs etc...).

[bobwillis]

I prefer and use 0, so that in simple scenes, the bitrate will drop below 1000Mbps thus saving more space for complex scenes.

I have never had a problem using 0 (with 2.50 and v2.66) in either OPV or VBR.

I must stress that this is applicable to DVD output. I have never produced an SVCD - so I wouldn't know about those.

Bob

[r6d2]

Originally posted by The Belgain
According to r6d2, there shouldn't be any need for a min setting.
You're missing the "it is wise" part ;). Your player can deal with violent speed changes, but you may also want to be more conservative in case other players don't.

Remember also that old Unix fortune cookie: "In Theory, the difference between Practice and Theory is much smaller than the one you find in Practice". :)
Is there no way of setting it in this plugin?
AFAIK, the plugin uses the min setting from DVD2SVCD, but I have never changed that so please try yourself. Set min to 8000 or any other value and check if it uses it in the encoder window of CCE (or in the ECL file).

(Just in case, don't confuse the Min with the Min Avg, that's another thing.)
I've always attributes this to the fact that I'm playing back NTSC DVDs on a PAL player
:confused: If the player does not support NTSC, would it play at all? If it does, it should do it correctly. :confused:

[windtrader]

I found this on the vendor site. Maybe it explains the max bit rate value and problems between CCE/Scenarist.

Q. MPEG files encoded by CCE fail in authoring. Why ?
A. When "VBR" and "DVD compliant" are set, CCE writes 9,800kbps as max bitrate at the sequence header for more flexible bit allocation. (Note that actual bitrate does not exceed your max bitrate setting.) Some authoring softwares seem to calculate the bitrate for a DVD using this 9,800kbps as video bitrate. And when multiplexing with PCM audio, they consider the total bitrate out of DVD acceptable range 10.08 Mbps. To avoid this problem, please clear "DVD compliant" check box. Then the max bitrate on the sequence header will be the value you specified.

http://www.cinemacraft.com/eng/faq.html#10

Also, there must be an accepted minimum bit rate value to ensure maximum playability in all players. I'll keep looking for a reference.

[DDogg]

I knew there was something to do with checking DVD compliant that caused a screw up, but I could not remember why. I never use it personally, but yesterday, when I read the posts and then the CCE doc, it sounded like it would fix the problems reported, not cause them. CCE has a few of those, like upper field first or adding 1 in offset line. You could never understand it from the manual. (This assumes that we do understand it now) :)

[syzygytec]

Yes now the world is in perfect balance. Time to move on and get interested in some other subject. Oh after windtrader finds a Min br reference that is.

EDIT I thought of something as soon as that is in perfect balance maybe someone would like to help me incorporate a method to do flippers into the D2SDVD2DVDRoBa that would rock but I have NO clue!!!

oh and combining 2 disc's such as the LOTR ext. edition's

[manolito]

Thanks r6d2 for the extensive reply to my confused post. Yes, I agree, it is always about bitrate. It's just that my approach is from the opposite direction: I really absolutely want to sqeeze this encode on one CD (Little Manuel has to be obsessed with size, right?).

That means that bitrate (usually around 800 kbps) and Q (sometimes even over 50) are not negotiable for me. I just want to know if with these restrictions I can get a better looking result if I use an additional sizing pass (or even a traditional 3 pass VBR).
quote: In the (very unlikely) event that the OPV pass comes out at exactly 100%, how could the sizing pass (that uses the VAF from the OPV pass) possibly improve quality?

IMHO it won?t, it is always about bitrate.
Bobwillis seems to disagree, though I do not know if he is talking about SVCDs or DVDs.

To put an end to my almost unbearable confusion, I decided to do a couple of test encodes over the weekend.
My setup: CCE 2.50, target SVCD, FACAR without filters, bilinear resize. I encoded three films, first with OPV without sizing pass, then with sizing pass, for one film I even did a traditional 3 pass VBR.
Two of the movies had a Q in the low forties (41 and 42), while one came out with a Q of 56. Every time the OPV pass was undersized between 1.8% and 3.0%.

Results:
For all three movies there is no visible difference between an OPV encode without resizing pass and a multipass encode. The Q 56 encode has some very characteristic artefacts on some scenes, but these artefacts look exactly the same on the one pass OPV and on the encode with the additional resizing pass. This applies to viewing the SVCD on a regular 4:3 TV set with a diameter of about 28 inches.
If you are going for size, and want a Q>40, you don't really need D2Sroba on its current state.
I strongly disagree. After a lot of testing I think I did find a value for Adjust Q that mostly gives me an encode that is just a little undersized (typically less than 3%), and the resulting one pass OPV encode takes half of the time compared to not using D2SRoBa, and at the same time I am not sacrificing any quality. This makes D2SRoBa indispensable for me. For my setup I do not have any use for the new D2SRoBa option to do a sizing pass if Q is above a certain value.


Not confused any more
manolito

[r6d2]

Originally posted by manolito
I really absolutely want to sqeeze this encode on one CD (Little Manuel has to be obsessed with size, right?).
1 CD ripping is fun. :) I'm surprised about the good results I get with Q<33 and CVD frame size with some movies. Just finished Clear and Present Danger (2:16 duration) with FitCD+KISS (Overscan=2) and it looks terrific. Video BR is 680 and audio 112. :p
Bobwillis seems to disagree, though I do not know if he is talking about SVCDs or DVDs.
Well, Manolito, quality is in the eye of the beholder. If Bobwillis can notice the quality improvement, I'm glad for him. I'm happy you did the test yourself. Personally, I'm seldom convinced about something that either I cannot prove or which is based on a logic I cannot understand. ;)
I strongly disagree. After a lot of testing I think I did find a value for Adjust Q that mostly gives me an encode that is just a little undersized (typically less than 3%), and the resulting one pass OPV encode takes half of the time compared to not using D2SRoBa.
You're right. I forgot the "Pure" OPV mode, which is why Tylo started all this stuff initially after all. ;)

Post that magic number so we all can be happy! (Some say that number does not exist, but scientists also say Pi is a non-repeating infinite number and I just found the last digit). :)
Not confused any more
If you still think size does matter ;), you may have some sort of confusion in other areas not directly related to encoding. :)

[windtrader]

I read through the CCD and Scenarist manuals as well as searched around the web. I found many, many details about max bit rate but none on minimum bit rates for DVD.

Bob has not had problems at 0. Others most likely are using a default of 2000.

If any of you have suggestions where to find this out, let me know. I'll keep searching. I think it may provide quite a bit of added quality to DVD for certain types of movies.

I also thought of running a quick test, making up a DVD with some 0mbs sections and run it through CCE with DVD compliant checked and Scenarist to see if passes any checks in the software tools.

[syzygytec]

Everything seems to be working well at 0 - 9400
These D2SRoBa settings are working quite well for DVD Log:
--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.1.1, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.75.0
- 2003-12-16 00:26:11
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 2.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:18:17 (198939 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 3975 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 3984
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=3975 (3975) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4122781766. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 3975 (max 9400) kbps, size=4122781766. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2463 (Q=17, err=-38.0%, size=2555319923., sample sz=51173448.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3665 (Q=8, err=-7.8%, size=3801723092., sample sz=76134216.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4116 (Q=6, err=3.5%, size=4269376948., sample sz=85499564.)
- Deriv. mpv BR : 3890 (Q=7, err=-2.1%)
- Determined Q : 6 = round(7 - 1.0 + (-2.1)/5.7)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-16 01:27:31
- Actual mpv file size:
12/16/2003 03:38 AM 4182249404 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 101.4% on target ( 4182249404 / 4122781766.) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.06
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 3975 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
12/16/2003 05:49 AM 4122498896 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 4122498896 / 4122781766.) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.06
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-12-16 05:49:36
Final Disc Image size 4.37 GB (4,693,229,568 bytes)

[windtrader]

I reviewed the appendix in the CCE SP (2.66)user manual titled, "Bitrate and Quantization scale". It clearly shows the general effect of more bitrate, higher quality (lower Q). Duh.

Second effect shows that available bitrate (max - min) does affect Q quite directly. Look at Figure A.19 graph of VBR with 6Mbps set as min,avg, and max and A.20 wiht VBR min:0, avg:6, and max:15Mbps. Again, it is obvious whenever bit rate is constrained, quality suffers and Q rises. Duh #2.

As this relates to minimum bitrate setting in CCE. My own view is setting minimum Mbps to anything greater than 0 is throwing bits away that can be used in scenes demanding higher bitrates. Same conclusion Bob stated.

How visible will this be? Hard to say and very material dependent. I was able to create a clip that ran at a bitrate of .8 Mbps and ran it through the D2SRoBa process without any problems. I don't know what will happen a scene of 0 Mbps is processed by Scenarist. Clearly, the CCE graphs show no problem with minimim of 0.

I also can not speculate how often players will have problems handling 0 Mbps.

Lastly, since the minimum will be lowered to 0, low bitrate scenes will have relatively higher q which translates into higher distortion. The Bias setting offsets this and Figure A.21 shows a setting of 30 (default I think) doing a nice job of lowering Q at the low bitrates while keeping the increase in the high bitrate to a minimum.

So, my new target values are min:0, max:9300, bias:30.

Syzygytec - I would try 9400 but 9400+448 is over the stated 9.8 DVD limit. So I decided to not cut it so close.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by windtrader
I reviewed the appendix in the CCE SP (2.66)user manual [...] Duh.
[...] Again, it is obvious whenever bit rate is constrained, quality suffers and Q rises. Duh #2.
That appendix is enlightening indeed. It is hard to follow because the graphs are not on the same page as the explanations.

But after all, what else is new... RTFM is the first thing one should do. :)
I also can not speculate how often players will have problems handling 0 Mbps.
Let's try anyway. :)

If you have asegment of several seconds encoded in OPV and whole black, BR should be near to 0. Than means the player would eventually stop spinning, perhaps stalling when actions begins. It would be interesting to try.

Anyway, guys, at DVD frame size with [2000, 9000] or whatever, almost any movie will look the same. IMHO, there is no need to be so picky at optimizing everything possible. That's what an engineer would call a third derivative.

What use would have a perfectly optimized encode if that specific player your fiance or your parents has is unable to cope with it?

I bet other things, like which resizer, matrices or filters you choose, have a much higher impact on final quality and size. IMHO, I'd put there the biggest efforts.
So, my new target values are min:0, max:9300, bias:30.
Bias=0 would make BR vary even more, in case you want to give it a shot.

[syzygytec]

I would try 9400 but 9400+448 is over the stated 9.8 DVD limit. So I decided to not cut it so close.

DVD Author manual says 9848 thats where I grabbed that tidbit from

r6d2 maybe I should re-read but does Bias come into play on OPV?However, the feeling of distortion is subjective to the certain extent
and there may be a difference of this feeling. To compensate this difference,
Cinema Craft Encoder SP provides another parameter named
bias only for multipass VBR. By changing this parameter, you can
change the characteristics of rate control of Cinema Craft Encoder
SP.

Nothing will ever hit 0kbps bec. of overhead..read that somewhere at DVDrHelp

TMPG seems to use 9.8mbps and 9848 as the same figure

The combined audio and video bitrate can be no more than 9.848Mbps (9848kbps)

From the DVD Author help:
For a standard DVD, it is necessary with a combined bitrate (video and audio) lower than 9.8Mbps (9848kbps).
With a bitrate higher than 9.8Mbps it becomes a nonstandard DVD, and we cannot guarantee that this will play correctly in a DVD player.


@Windtrader A.21 is referring to the Premiere plugin if that makes any difference

Fig. A.20 to Fig. A.23 are the graphs of mulltipass VBR whose
average bitrate, minimum bitrate, maximum bitrate are 6 Mbps, 0
Mbps, and 15 Mbps, respectively, and only bias is different. (Each is
encoded 3 passes.)
If the value of bias is small, bitrate movement will be large so it
will be like VBR. On the contrary, if the value of bias is large, bitrate
movement will be small so it will be much like CBR. You can confirm
these things by looking at the four graphs. By default, the value of
bias is set to 30. If you feel that the movement of bitrate is too much
or too little, change this value and try again.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by syzygytec
r6d2 maybe I should re-read but does Bias come into play on OPV?
Seems you've been doing some homework. :)

According to the CCE manual, bias is only used in VBR, that is correct. It will be used in the RoBa sizing pass, if done.

IMHO, in OPV bias makes no much sense since CCE is already free to move the BR as much as it needs to keep the Q.factor. AFAIK, nobody has found out how exactly Q.factor determines the output. Bach showed some formulas about that but I did not understand s**t.

I did some tests to see if it matched the sum of a GOPs's quantizations, but it was too low. I tried to see if it was a moving average, but could not find a pattern. I just know it provides the best quality in the least time. ;)

[windtrader]

DVD Author manual says 9848 thats where I grabbed that tidbit from Thanks. I'll use 9400 then.
@Windtrader A.21 is referring to the Premiere plugin if that makes any difference When I read that I thought that as well. It is a page heading error. That whole appendix is not related to the plug-in.

And as R6D2 states, bias comes into play during the sizing pass.

What's the general consensus on forcing the sizing pass? I've seen some comment that it is always on, others going with OPV if it stays in the under/over limits.

[syzygytec]

With the RoBa setting Im using now I definately get the sizing pass and 2 movies in a row came up 100% on the sizing pass.

On the Bias setting is that one of the ones that is hidden (gone) in the trials? and D2S has it and puts it into the ecl? Looking through the 2.50 manual there is a heck of alot missing...makes it more like basic. Me thinks about 30 for the bias...d2s set 20 default he must have had some logic behind that. Yes default is 30 in the manual...if I decide to change to 30 Ill be redoing some movies. I'm looking for set-it-and-forget-it LOL once I lock in on my set-it-and-forget-itconfiguration.

[sPeziFisH]

D2SRoba seems to prevent D2S from showing the found subtitle streams after 'Locate all subtitles' - D2S freezes. Without D2SRoba everything is fine.
D2SRoba 3.1.1 is used.

by the way: I would have to give you a golden star if you wouldn't have already one :)

[tylo]

There has been a few reports on 3.1.1 - mostly that either CCE freezes, and now that D2S freeze. I have made links to 3.1.0 and 3.0.8, so you may report if these are OK.I would have to give you a golden star if you wouldn't have already one Oh, I could always put it on top of the christmas tree - thanks :D

[windtrader]

Is there a way to restart D2SRoBa so it can perform the sizing pass only?

I ran D2SRoBa and it completed after the OPV pass. After looking at the results, I want to run the sizing pass. I have all the generated files intact. It would be nice to have the ability to have it restart and just do the sizing pass.

[syzygytec]

My viewing test results

TV Sony 43' rear projection connected directly to DVD Player via composite cables

The movie's Terminator 3 & Matrix Reloaded

The Encoding methods each movie 3 different methods:

1) D2S/FACAR-Bicubic resize 0.6/CCE 2.50/ 3pass VBR range 2000 - 9000 Bias 20
2) D2S/FACAR-Bicubic resize 0.6/CCE 2.50/D2SRoba OPV + sizing pass range 0 - 9400 Bias 20
3) D2S/FACAR-Bicubic resize 0.6/TMPGEnc 2.5 2pass VBR Normal motion search precision

The people: Me and my life long freind who is a major audio/video/cinema enthusiast and who has worked in the high end home theater business

The results:

Method 2 was far better than 1 much sharper, fuller and more defined so in both parties opinion

The winner however in both our opinions without a doubt is Method 3 it took the prize because of equal foreground and background definition. Where as CCE equalled it on foreground
the background fell way short in comparsion. We came to this conclusion swapping disc's back and forth and looking at various stills in each movie.

Again this is all in the eye of the beholder, I can say this for sure, if I had a Pentium 4 with hyper-threading I'd be using TMPG for DVD 2 DVD and never look back.

EDIT:
I guess I'll be banished to kwag's for this!

[manolito]

@windtrader
Is there a way to restart D2SRoBa so it can perform the sizing pass only?
I second that suggestion. Until Tylo can work this option into D2SRoBa you can of course just interpolate the right value for Q from the S2SRoba log and then do a 1 pass VBR encode with D2S alone. This would still not give you a 100% target size, and you also have to live with redoing audio conversion, but it's better than nothing.

@syzygytec
Again this is all in the eye of the beholder, I can say this for sure, if I had a Pentium 4 with hyper-threading I'd be using TMPG for DVD 2 DVD and never look back. I guess I'll be banished to kwag's for this!
Hey, we could sure use a permanent spy over there at kwag's. Why don't we all start bugging Tylo to support TMPEnc with his plugin?


@r6d2
I wish I were a magician with access to all kinds of magic numbers (like lottery numbers).

My current setting for Adjust Q is 2.8, and I am well aware that this is much higher than what most other members use. I have been thinking a little about what could be the reason for that, and this leads to the general question, what are the factors that have an influence on the value for Adjust Q. This is what I came up with (fuzzy thinking ON):

1. The absolute value for Q
Tylo brought this up a couple of times. At low Qs the function for error percentage per one Q step is not very linear, leading mostly to oversized encodes. At higher Qs (above 40) it seems you can generally use higher values for Adjust Q without getting oversize.

2. Filtering
I got this from one of DDoggs posts. I generally use moderate QMF based filtering which is not effective at scene changes (Homie's QMF script recognizes scene changes and does not apply high motion filtering to them). So it seems the more filters you use the bigger becomes the difference in compressability between the sample test runs and the full movie. So more filtering should translate to a higher Adjust Q.

3. SVCD Scan Offsets
Like r6d2 I do not use Scan Offsets and Align Sequence Headers. It is not really needed and saves a few bytes. But Tylo's plugin takes these bytes into account when calculating bitrates, so the actual encodes become smaller than exspected (undersized) which has to be offset by using a higher Adjust Q.

4. Aspect Ratio of the movie
This is just a pattern I think I have noticed but had no time so far to verify it by doing some tests. It seems that a 2.35:1 movie is more likely to come out undersized than a 1.85:1 movie and even more so than a 4:3 movie. With Ajust Q set to 2.8 a 2.35:1 film typically comes out undersized by around 3%, a 1.85:1 movie results in a 1.5% to 2% undersized encode, and a 4:3 movie gives me an occasional slight oversize. If this is true (might be just coincidence) then I really would like to find a theoretical explanation for it.

5. Sample Percentage
I normally use 2% samples, but when I did some tests using 1% samples I noticed that the plugin usually calculated a higher Q than with 2% samples. Probably the encoder sees more scene changes relative to the length of the whole movie with smaller samples.

(fuzzy thinking OFF)
If these or some of these points can be proved (or disproved) it should be possible to come up with some kind of a spreadsheet or even a formula built right into Tylo's plugin that gives you a much better chance to get close to a 100% encode on the first OPV pass.

[syzygytec]

I just had some crazy thoughts, OK with RoBa the second sizing pass is VBR so does this mean that now going into pass 2 VBR that now the max avg setting in D2S comes into play? r6d2 seems to think the Bias setting does at that point, and if that does I would assume max avg does as well. Now even more wierd thinking, if your using a CCE template whats controlling the the min max max avg anyway, I started encoding using a cce template setup for opv 0 - 9400 also set that way in D2S so now in the sizing pass what is it using? the opv template I defined? cce's settings do not auto switch, so I assume it going off D2S's settings and all mpv variables are in effect at this point.
It's confusing, was it ever using my template settings at all? can't be on sizing pass can it? I told it to use a template setup for opv from the start.

Ha! I thought of more confusion for us

[windtrader]

If you look at the CCE ECL you will see the vbr values like my example.
cbr_brate=4358
opv_q_factor=12
opv_brate_min=0
opv_brate_max=9400
vbr_brate_avg=4358
vbr_brate_min=0
vbr_brate_max=9400
vbr_bias=30
vbr_pass=1

I went into CCE and updated the template with new values. These are reflected in the actual logs, so they are being passed in. There are separate values for OPV and VBR.

This snippet came from the dvd2svcd project file.d2s file. look like what was passed into the 1 pass vbr run.

EncodingMode=One Pass VBR
AvgBitrate=4358
MaxBitrate=9400
MinBitrate=0
QFactor=12
Passes=1
ImageQualityPriority=17
Bias=30


Take a look at the various logs:
CCE_PROJECT_FILE/MOVIE.ECL
D2SROBA.AVS
D2SROBA.ECL
D2SROBA_LOG.TXT
DVD2SVCD PROJECT FILE.D2S

Hey, you may get even more confused after scanning these. :-)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by manolito
I second that suggestion. Until Tylo can work this option into D2SRoBa you can of course just interpolate the right value for Q from the S2SRoba log and then do a 1 pass VBR encode with D2S alone.
If you do this, the first pass VAF file is pretty useless. I'd suggest to modify the CCE_Project_file_MOVIE.ecl (just open with CCE and change the encoding mode) and press "Encode Now".

I suggested Tylo to implement this kind of resume once. I thought it would be nice to have, but I don't anymore. It may be a bigger effort for Tylo than the benefit for us. BTW, you can always put your Over/Under parameters before the plugin starts.
Why don't we all start bugging Tylo to support TMPEnc with his plugin?
:readfaq: :)
I do not use Scan Offsets and Align Sequence Headers. It is not really needed and saves a few bytes. But Tylo's plugin takes these bytes into account when calculating bitrates
I really don't think so. Tylo confirmed he uses the BR calculated by D2S, which considers this effect. The fact that D2S undersizes always cannot be corrected by Tylo without a BR calculation of his own, and that is non-trivial.
Originally posted by syzygytec
with RoBa the second sizing pass is VBR so does this mean that now going into pass 2 VBR that now the max avg setting in D2S comes into play?
Max Avg and Min Avg are internal variables of DVD2SVCD. They have nothing to do with OPV or VBR (not even with CCE itself). Please review the guides and FAQ for further info on that so we don't spill even more this thread with unrelated stuff.
r6d2 seems to think the Bias setting does at that point
r6d2 is pretty sure. He read it on the manual. :)

[syzygytec]

r6d2 seems increasingly tired of this and aggravated of late I'm going to shut up and go away and only read manuals and pha-q's from now on.

[The Belgain]

Right, this plugin has been working very nicely for me, but I have a very random problem on an AVI2DVD encode of Two Towers EE. Basically the Q estimation goes completely weird:


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0.8
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_2000, AutoIt: 3.0.75.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2003-12-18 17:01:24
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 4350
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 40 / 50
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : No (-2.0 .. 1.0)%
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Setting low process priority
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 03:25:59 (308989 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (384 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2493 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 6180
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2493 (2493) audio1_br=384 video_sz=3851547885. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 2493 (max 9000) kbps, size=3851547885. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 3833 (Q=16, err=53.8%, size=5923148936., sample sz=118467196.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 399 (Q=29, err=-84.0%, size=617791007., sample sz=12356260.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3149 (Q=21, err=26.3%, size=4865727380., sample sz=97318012.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2969 (Q=23, err=19.1%, size=4588004467., sample sz=91763356.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2610 (Q=28, err=4.7%, size=4033225417., sample sz=80667380.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5894 (Q=0, err=136.4%, size=9107413576., sample sz=182154756.)
- Determined Q : 1 = round(0 - 1.0 + (136.4)/-1.#)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-18 19:19:40
- Actual mpv file size:
18/12/2003 21:13 8843939456 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL.mpv
- OPV pass result: 229.6% on target ( 8843939456 / 3851547885.) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.81
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-12-18 21:13:28


First of all, the bitrate for Q29 seems completely wrong, and secondly, why did it choose 0 as the closest Q in the rounding formula (and why did it test it in the first place)?

It seems like it was confused by Q28 being oversized, and Q29 being undersized by a hige amount. Any ideas as to what could have caused this? I'm rather perplexed...

I'm using mDVDAuth here by the way (there aren't supposed to be any issues with this) and doing an NTSC --> PAL conversion.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by The Belgain
a very random problem on an AVI2DVD encode of Two Towers EE. Basically the Q estimation goes completely weird: [...] Any ideas as to what could have caused this?
@The Belgain,

This may be related to other people's reports before on this thread. The plugin (Newton) gets sort of confused when forced to 1 CD rip of a long movie (3 hours in this case) due to high Q values.

Could you please do the following test?

Set Mode=Auto and Auto Q=a high value, let's say 100. Please report back.

[tylo]

I think 29 is your target Q (look at 28), but it seems to hit it so close that it gets confused. I thought I had fixed that - but obviously not.:o (I am aware you're usin 308). Some changes are happening with AutoIt 3 now - all numbers are represented as (double) floating points, i.e. no more internal integer representation. This may help to sort out some issues like this.
OK, working on it.:sly:

/later: Could it be that CCE did an early leave (crash) on Q29? The sample size is so small that it looks like it. At the end when it reaches 29 again, it sees those previous rubbish values, and goes crazy :devil:

[The Belgain]

tylo: It does seem like CCE must have crashed or something for Q29 to be so small. I don't know if it did or not as I was not at the computer. CCE has never crashed on me before though, and all the other passes (and the full encode) and the movie I did afterwards all worked fine.

r6d2: I'll test that later.

[syzygytec]

Has anyone ever hit 100% on the OPV pass? This is awesome


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.1.1, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.75.0
- 2003-12-20 00:30:21
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.5
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 2.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:58:16 (170140 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 4726 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 480, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 4260
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=4726 (4726) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4192117326. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 4726 (max 9352) kbps, size=4192117326. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2232 (Q=14, err=-52.8%, size=1979927807., sample sz=49573836.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3460 (Q=6, err=-26.8%, size=3069334706., sample sz=76850628.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5369 (Q=1, err=13.6%, size=4762802508., sample sz=119252020.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4516 (Q=3, err=-4.4%, size=4006564076., sample sz=100317168.)
- Determined Q : 2 = round(3 - 1.0 + (-4.4)/9.0)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-20 00:53:23
- Actual mpv file size:
12/20/2003 02:48 AM 4191584520 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 100.0% on target ( 4191584520 / 4192117326.) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.03

@bob willis, since we both think with resizing pass looks better/is better what if this happens? LMAO

this should force it Yes (if opv sz < 2.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 1)

@Tylo am I right to assume that based on my log example above that setting if q>1 would have forced the sizing pass?
or
should I have read some outdated pha-q or manual for this answer

[tylo]

syzygytec: you're right. Either 'Q over' set to 0 or both limits to 0.0 does the trick (always forces the sizing pass). You were extemely lucky, because on such low Qs, one Q step means a big difference in size (9.0% in your case).

[r6d2]

@Tylo,

It seems that you are setting CCE's priority to low in spite of D2S setting. Might you honor that setting instead?

Thanks in advance.

[tylo]

AFAIK the process priority is set on the D2SRoBa process itself, based on the settings of D2S (read from the project's DVD2SVCD.ini). Look at The Belgain's log "- Setting low process priority", while syzygytec's log doesn't have that. Any spawned process (CCE, BeSweet) will inherit the parent's process priority.

[syzygytec]

I have never not 100% on sizing pass with adjust q set to 1. 5 movies thus far. Is it suppose to work like that or am I just lucky?

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.1.1, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.75.0
- 2003-12-21 02:08:15
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.5
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 1.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 0)
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:20:25 (202008 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 3908 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 480, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 5052
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=3908 (3908) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4115820320. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 3908 (max 9352) kbps, size=4115820320. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2378 (Q=17, err=-39.2%, size=2505463799., sample sz=62658920.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3460 (Q=8, err=-11.5%, size=3644432566., sample sz=91143288.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4444 (Q=4, err=13.7%, size=4680736165., sample sz=117060112.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3866 (Q=6, err=-1.1%, size=4072143161., sample sz=101839864.)
- Determined Q : 5 = round(6 - 1.0 + (-1.1)/7.4)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-21 02:34:40
- Actual mpv file size:
12/21/2003 04:47 AM 4285403832 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 104.1% on target ( 4285403832 / 4115820320.) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.06
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 3908 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
12/21/2003 06:59 AM 4115791816 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 4115791816 / 4115820320.) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.07

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Any spawned process (CCE, BeSweet) will inherit the parent's process priority.
You're right. But it still happens in my case.

I set DVD2SVCD to Normal, closed DVD2SVCD, started D2Sroba and all CCE processes were in low priority. Since you are not doing it, it must have something to do with the priority setting in EclCCE. I'll change it there. Thanks anyway.

[syzygytec]

OPV Pass 100% on target forced sizing pass make you wonder what all changed between the 2 passes.
D2SRoBa v3.1.1, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.75.0
- 2003-12-22 01:04:03
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.5
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 1.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 0)
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:58:16 (170140 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 4726 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 480, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 4260
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=4726 (4726) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4192117326. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 4726 (max 9352) kbps, size=4192117326. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2232 (Q=14, err=-52.8%, size=1979927807., sample sz=49573836.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3460 (Q=6, err=-26.8%, size=3069334706., sample sz=76850628.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5369 (Q=1, err=13.6%, size=4762802508., sample sz=119252020.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4516 (Q=3, err=-4.4%, size=4006564076., sample sz=100317168.)
- Determined Q : 2 = round(3 - 1.0 + (-4.4)/9.0)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-22 02:08:30
- Actual mpv file size:
12/22/2003 04:03 AM 4191584520 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 100.0% on target ( 4191584520 / 4192117326.) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.03
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 4726 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
12/22/2003 05:58 AM 4192092180 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 4192092180 / 4192117326.) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.03

I would conclude that forcing a sizing pass in the rare instance that you hit 100% on OPV is probably useless.
Also I think this shows stability with D2SRoba as the same movie came up the same twice.

[windtrader]

I would conclude that forcing a sizing pass in the rare instance that you hit 100% on OPV is probably useless.
I'd argue that it is nearly "useless" if the OPV hits 98-99% on such low Q values.

[syzygytec]

@tylo my first 3.1.2 results for you

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.1.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.81.0
- 2003-12-25 02:15:43
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.5
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 1.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 25)
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:18:17 (198939 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 3975 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 480, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 4980
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=3975 (3975) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4122781766 fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 3975 (max 9352) kbps, size=4122781766 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2491 (Q=17, err=-37.3%, size=2584372926, sample sz=64694088)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4129 (Q=6, err=3.9%, size=4282643264, sample sz=107206548)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3887 (Q=7, err=-2.2%, size=4031706403, sample sz=100924896)
- Determined Q : 6 = round(7 - 1.0 + (-2.2)/6.1)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-25 03:20:40
- Actual mpv file size:
12/25/2003 05:32 AM 4180397048 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 101.4% on target ( 4180397048 / 4122781766) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.05
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 3975 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
12/25/2003 07:42 AM 4122502632 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 4122502632 / 4122781766) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.06
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-12-25 07:42:58

[telemike]

Tylo-

Here's a suggestion:

How about being able to set a different audio rate for 1-cd and 2+ cd's?

Say I want 128K for a 1-CD encode and 192K for 2 cd's. When using the Auto function it would select the audio bitrate for te number of cd's chosens. Make any sense?

[r6d2]

But... That's what the audio thing is about... :confused: You mean selecting specific audio sizes?

[tylo]

Hi, @telemike. Yes, I thought about that once. It would make it simpler for people to know what audio br they get. However, for a 3 hour movie on 2CDs, you don't want 192 kbps audio, but rather 128 because the video bitrate may be 1300. So, using 10% will give you 128kbps, which is what you want for that movie. And, you'll normally get 192 kbps for a regular length movie on 2 CDs, and 128 for a one CD.

But a more direct way could be something similar to D2S way to select num CDs: Let user set up 2-3 video bitrate bands (ranges), and then set corresponding audio bitrate for these.

[r6d2]

Excuse me guys. It may be the holidays, but I don't get it. Perhaps when it's done I'll be able to.

[syzygytec]

@tylo
Im help my neighbor, set everything up for him this is the first encode log and it's really strange what do you make of it?

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.1.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.81.0
- 2003-12-30 13:05:55
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 1.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:23:10 (205974 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 3824 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 4128
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=3824 (3824) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4106421922 fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 3824 (max 9352) kbps, size=4106421922 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 0 (Q=18, err=-100.0%, size=0, sample sz=0)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2722 (Q=18, err=-28.8%, size=2923800132, sample sz=58596944) [reused]
- Estim. mpv BR : 0 (Q=6, err=-100.0%, size=0, sample sz=0)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4537 (Q=6, err=18.6%, size=4872914730, sample sz=97659860) [reused]
- Estim. mpv BR : 0 (Q=3.5, err=-100.0%, size=0, sample sz=0)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5600 (Q=3.5, err=46.4%, size=6014021467, sample sz=120529196) [reused]
- Estim. mpv BR : 0 (Q=4.75, err=-100.0%, size=0, sample sz=0)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5184 (Q=4.75, err=35.6%, size=5567215162, sample sz=111574588) [reused]
- Estim. mpv BR : 0 (Q=0, err=-100.0%, size=0, sample sz=0)
- Determined Q : 1 = round(0 - 1.0 + (-100.0)/-1.#)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2003-12-30 14:22:40
- Actual mpv file size:
12/30/2003 04:08 PM 6498715520 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 158.3% on target ( 6498715520 / 4106421922) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.36
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 3824 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
12/30/2003 05:51 PM 4106404812 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 4106404812 / 4106421922) CCE 2.50 speed: 1.39
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2003-12-30 17:51:57

[tylo]

Hmm. I see that I have no sleep() after CCE 2.50 finishes encoding (but there is for 2.66+). My guess is that the GetFileSize() is called too early after CCE finishes encoding on that PC - I'll put in a sleep there.

-------------
To everyone: Happy New Year (soon). It has been lots of fun developing this plugin throughout the year. It wouldn't have happened without all the help and feedback from posters in this, and the previous thread. :thanks: Also, a special thanks to: DDogg and r6d2, who has been devoted testers and contributors all the way, dvd2svcd + developers of all the great tools that it uses, and finally jon and his crew over at hiddensoft/autoit.

[bobwillis]

Happy new year Tylo; thanks for all the work over the previous year.

First anomaly of the new year:
Disc: Close Encounters of the Third Kind Collector's Edition (Region 2)

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.1.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.81.0
- 2004-01-01 11:04:16
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4470
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 0.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:11:38 (197472 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : -31389 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 3960
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=-31388 (-31388) audio1_br=448 video_sz=-30991255680 fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : -31388 (max 9500) kbps, size=-30991255680 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:


As you can see, the D2S video estimate is negative. This error occured with v3.0.8. It may be a DVD2SVCD issue. I'll try again without D2SRoBa and let you know.

Update: Yes, the error is caused by DVD2SVCD, from DVD2SVCD log:


WNASPI32.DLL 4.6.0.1021
--------------------------------------------------------
- 01/01/2004 11:36:38
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2DVD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
- C:\close\source\VTS_01_0.IFO
- C:\close\source\VTS_01_1.vob
- C:\close\source\VTS_01_2.vob
- C:\close\source\VTS_01_3.vob
- C:\close\source\VTS_01_4.vob
- C:\close\source\VTS_01_5.vob
- C:\close\source\VTS_01_6.vob
- C:\close\source\VTS_01_7.vob
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 01/01/2004 11:36:41
- Analyzing subtitles
--------------------------------------------------------
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x2C Language: Norsk
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x2B Language: Islenska
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x2A Language: Magyar
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x27 Language: Greek
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x26 Language: Suomi
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x25 Language: Dansk
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x24 Language: Czech(Ceske)
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x23 Language: Bulgarian
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x22 Language: Arabic
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x2D Language: Polish
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x28 Language: Hebrew
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x2F Language: Turkish
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x2E Language: Svenska
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x29 Language: Hindi
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x21 Language: Nederlands
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x20 Language: English

Executing subtitle selection/verification.
Subtitle selection/verification accepted.
1 subtitle streams selected.
Saving Subtitles ini file
--------------------------------------------------------
- 01/01/2004 11:36:56
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[C:\close\source\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[C:\close\source\VTS_01_1.vob,C:\close\source\VTS_01_2.vob,C:\close\source\VTS_01_3.vob,C:\close\source\VTS_01_4.vob,C:\close\source\VTS_01_5.vob,C:\close\source\VTS_01_6.vob,C:\close\source\VTS_01_7.vob]
Framerate: 25000
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 01/01/2004 11:39:09
- Free on drive C: 71833.65 mb
- Extracting the subtitles.
--------------------------------------------------------

Subtitle extraction finished. Extracted these subtitles:
SVCD Stream no: 1 Language: English Num. of subs: 993

Saving Subtitles ini file
--------------------------------------------------------
- 01/01/2004 11:45:25
- Free on drive C: 71822.42 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: C:\close\audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Framerate: 25000
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 01/01/2004 11:49:32
- Free on drive C: 71837.54 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 4672371788
AudioSectors: 36154588848
VideoPAPO: -487676340
ScanOffsetBytes: 296208
SeqAligningBytes: 18825664
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 5314988
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 0.00
PureMPEGStream: -31018977584.00
Seconds: 7905.88
CalcMPEGStream: -31018977584.00
Frames: 197472
CDSize: 4470.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 4460.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 197472
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 3
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: Multipass VBR
Min. bitrate: 0
Max. bitrate: 9500
Avg. Bitrate: -31389
Aspect Ratio: Anamorphic (no borders, encoded as 16:9)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
mpeg2source("C:\close\source\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
BilinearResize(720,576)
ConvertToYUY2()
----AVS End----


As you can see, DVD2SVCD calculates the avg bitrate as negative. Does DVD2SVCD read this thread. If not can someone make him aware of this post?

Regards,
Bob

[r6d2]

Second CD was only 751-MB :(

--------------------------------------------------------
D2Sroba v3.1.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.81.0
- 2004-01-03 02:35:48
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 33 / 40
- Adjust Q : 0.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 1.5%, or > 0.5% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Audio after video : Yes (128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 5000, max avg offset: 120 kbps)
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : No
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Setting low process priority
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:42:00 (146749 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (128 + 128) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1816 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1470
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=772 (772) audio1_br=128 video_sz=590643915 fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1816 (1816) audio1_br=128 video_sz=1389390349 fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2860 (2860) audio1_br=128 video_sz=2188136783 fill=100.0% cbr=0
- 4 CD: video_br=3904 (3904) audio1_br=128 video_sz=2986883217 fill=100.0% cbr=0
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=4744 for auto sample (adjusted for 4 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1227 (Q=33, err=?%, size=938929651, sample sz=9405356)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1816 (max 4744) kbps, size=1389390349 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1871 (Q=15, err=3.0%, size=1432005094, sample sz=14344544)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1751 (Q=17, err=-3.6%, size=1339969711, sample sz=13422616)
- Deriv. mpv BR : 1811 (Q=16, err=-0.3%)
- Determined Q : 16 = round(16 - 0.0 + (-0.3)/3.3)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2004-01-03 02:46:36
- Actual mpv file size:
03-01-2004 06:39 1397884952 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- OPV pass result: 100.6% on target ( 1397884952 / 1389390349) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.44
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 1816 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
03-01-2004 10:30 1386150932 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC_FS1.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 99.8% on target ( 1386150932 / 1389390349) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.44
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "J:\Movies\Terminator 3\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "J:\Movies\TERMIN~1\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.mp2" -logfile "J:\Movies\TERMIN~1\Audio\Encoded_audio_1_FS1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 128 -m s ) -split( -start 0 -end 6120.62062062062 )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: C:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "J:\Movies\Terminator 3\Audio\Extracted_audio_2.ac3" -output "J:\Movies\TERMIN~1\Audio\Encoded_audio_2_FS1.mp2" -logfile "J:\Movies\TERMIN~1\Audio\Encoded_audio_2_FS1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 128 -m s ) -split( -start 0 -end 6120.62062062062 )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2004-01-03 11:05:18

[bobwillis]

Hi Tylo,

The size of the VBR conditional pass file reduced dramatically when using v3.1.2.


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.1.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.81.0
- 2004-01-03 20:49:14
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4470
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 0.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:50:54 (256370 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (384 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 3170 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 5136
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=3170 (3170) audio1_br=384 video_sz=4063464500 fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 3170 (max 9500) kbps, size=4063464500 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 3909 (Q=22, err=23.3%, size=5011117237, sample sz=100390444)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3123 (Q=31, err=-1.5%, size=4004222265, sample sz=80218768)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3192 (Q=30, err=0.7%, size=4092588252, sample sz=81989052)
- Determined Q : 29 = round(30 - 1.0 + (0.7)/2.2)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2004-01-03 21:45:50
- Actual mpv file size:
04/01/2004 00:31 3982815184 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL.mpv
- OPV pass result: 98.0% on target ( 3982815184 / 4063464500) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.03
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 3170 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
04/01/2004 02:33 2410714288 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 59.3% on target ( 2410714288 / 4063464500) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.40
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2004-01-04 02:33:38


Any ideas? I'm repeating with v3.0.8 to see if that behaves the same way.

Update: Using v3.0.8 everything ok:

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.0.8
- Author: Tylo
- System: WIN_XP, AutoIt: 3.0.75.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-01-04 10:33:47
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4470
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 40 / 100
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (-0.0 .. 0.0)%
- Audio after video : No
- Adjust max br : No
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:50:54 (256370 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (384 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 3170 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 5136
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=3170 (3170) audio1_br=384 video_sz=4063464500. fill=100.0% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 3170 (max 9500) kbps, size=4063464500. bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 3909 (Q=22, err=23.3%, size=5011117237., sample sz=100390444.)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3192 (Q=30, err=0.7%, size=4092588252., sample sz=81989052.)
- Determined Q : 29 = round(30 - 1.0 + (0.7)/2.8)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2004-01-04 11:01:34
- Actual mpv file size:
04/01/2004 13:48 3982815184 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL.mpv
- OPV pass result: 98.0% on target ( 3982815184 / 4063464500.) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.02
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 3170 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
04/01/2004 16:35 4063100792 Encoded_Video_CCE_PAL.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 4063100792 / 4063464500.) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.03
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2004-01-04 16:35:10

It appears as though bogus parameters are passed to CCE when the VBR sizing pass occurs (with v3.1.2).

Regards,
Bob

[tylo]

Hi folks.
r6d2, I think this is due to D2S wrong bitrate calculations (its just a small deviance). You do use two audio's, and I have no experience with the accuracy on that. If you still have disabled "Align sequence header" for bbmpeg, that should be the reason. D2S assumes its on.

bobwillis, this was stranger - your guess could be right that the .ecl file is corrupt for the sizing pass. It seems that it didn't encode the whole movie (I can see that from the speed calc). I think one reported this "cut-off" earlier using 2.67 during sample encoding. I assumed that CCE crashed (and closed), but it may be as you said. I'll try to look into it.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
r6d2, I think this is due to D2S wrong bitrate calculations (its just a small deviance). You do use two audio's, and I have no experience with the accuracy on that. If you still have disabled "Align sequence header" for bbmpeg, that should be the reason. D2S assumes its on.
No, it has to do with restarting. I run it again and it worked. The previous run had considered audio2=192, which I did not correct througly on the project file, I presume. Worked OK from scratch.

BTW, D2S does not assume it is on. It checks and adjusts accordingly.

[bobwillis]

Tylo,

FYI, the latter half of the movie encoded with a black screen with a red error message saying : Avisynth caught an access violation at 'an address' attempting to read from 'another address'. Does this mean that CCE crashed part way through the second encode? Does this mean the problem is nothing to do with D2SRoBa?

Regards,
Bob

[syzygytec]

Wow rash of strangness lately. I just wrote Tylo a PM telling him what excellent + consistant results I've been having. 10 ovies in a row 100% on target, 2 of them on the OPV pass. I may not be happy with the speed of my machine but I think Ive got a lucky combination of hardware and my DVD2DVD making software settings. Using D2SRoBa 3.1.2 BTW with CCESP2.50 everything exactly as prescribed in my tutorial.

Thanks again Tylo

[manolito]

@Tylo
Thanks again for that wonderful plugin. I have not encountered a single issue with the latest version.
Here's something I found in this thread:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68527

Could checking "Restrict Auto I-Frame Insertion" for the sample runs make finding the right value for Adjust Q a little less of a gamble?

Just wondering
manolito

[tylo]

Thanks manolito. And for the link. I will need to look at that thread later. Regarding D2SRoBa, only a minor issue with CCE 2.50 is reported, so I will make a new version for that soon. I've done some contributions on the AutoIt3 projects lately, and want to be sure that a stable version of AutoIt is used for the next release.

/Add: @syzygytec: fixed the link to your excellent guide.

[lordkinbote]

Hi all,

I just installed the most recent FACAR plugin, 1.06.6, and now everything I've tried to do (only three AVIs) has come out with the sound slightly out of sync. The audio is a fraction of a second before the video. I get no errors and I'm encoding something right now so I have to wait until it finishes to put the log up, but I was wondering if anyone else has encountered any sync problems. I didn't have any before today when I installed the new FACAR plugin. I installed D2SRoba 3.1.2 yesterday and things were working fine then, except for the fact that it would always leave open a CCE window. I'll reboot after this encode 'cause who knows? Maybe after FACAR installed, or after something else I may have been doing, it needed a reboot. Thanks.

[lordkinbote]

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.1.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.81.0
- 2004-01-16 01:55:43
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 35 / 40
- Adjust Q : 0.8
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 2.0%, or > 0.5% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Audio after video : Yes (10% of video, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Setting low process priority
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 00:43:32 (62647 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (224 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2230 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 630
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2230 (2273) audio1_br=224 video_sz=728347149 fill=98.3% cbr=0
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2530 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1140 (Q=35, err=?%, size=372435023, sample sz=3745336)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 2230 (max 2530) kbps, size=728347149 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2328 (Q=6, err=4.4%, size=760378659, sample sz=7646632)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2269 (Q=8, err=1.7%, size=741224189, sample sz=7454008)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2237 (Q=9, err=0.3%, size=730751600, sample sz=7348692)
- Determined Q : 8 = round(9 - 0.8 + (0.3)/1.4)
- Reduced CD size : 788 (fill = 98.3%)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2004-01-16 02:03:14
- Actual mpv file size:
01/16/2004 02:53 AM 700361992 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: 96.2% on target ( 700361992 / 728347149) CCE 2.50 speed: 0.87
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing VBR Sizing Pass - 2230 kbps.
- Actual mpv file size:
01/16/2004 03:40 AM 728070936 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- Sizing pass result: 100.0% on target ( 728070936 / 728347149) CCE 2.50 speed: 0.94
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "D:\DVD Rip\audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2.wav" -output "D:\DVDRIP~1\audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\DVDRIP~1\audio\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -ota( -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2004-01-16 03:52:51


Okay, now here's the DVD2SVCD log (obviously it's in AVI2SVCD mode)

WNASPI32.DLL 4.71.2.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 1:56:09 AM
- AVI to SVCD Conversion
- AVI2SVCD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
- D:\Documents and Settings\Thad Pendleton\Desktop\smallville.309.hdtv-lol.[BT].avi
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 1:56:12 AM
- Free on drive D: 4474.13 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 1:56:59 AM
- Free on drive D: 4474.13 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 1:57:01 AM
- Free on drive D: 4474.13 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Converting MP2 to WAV. Filename: D:\DVD Rip\audio\Extracted_audio_1.mpa
Executing MADPlay (mp2 to wav). Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\MADPlay\madplay.exe" --quiet --output=wave:"D:\DVD Rip\audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2.wav" "D:\DVD Rip\audio\Extracted_audio_1.mpa"
Conversion (mp2 to wav) of D:\DVD Rip\audio\Extracted_audio_1.mpa finished.


Encoding Audio. Filename: D:\DVD Rip\audio\Extracted_audio_1.mpa
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\BeSweetLater.bat" -core( -input "D:\DVD Rip\audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2.wav" -output "D:\DVDRIP~1\audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\DVDRIP~1\audio\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -ota( -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
Audio conversion of D:\DVD Rip\audio\Extracted_audio_1.mpa finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 1:58:46 AM
- Free on drive D: 4474.03 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 834285788
AudioSectors: 74293632
VideoPAPO: 11772684
ScanOffsetBytes: 75176
SeqAligningBytes: 4777878
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 0.00
PureMPEGStream: 743366413.73
Seconds: 2617.90
CalcMPEGStream: 743366413.73
Frames: 62647
CDSize: 800.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 796.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 62647
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 4
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: One Pass VBR
Q. Factor: 1
Min. bitrate: 300
Max. bitrate: 2230
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("D:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
AVISource("D:\DOCUME~1\THADPE~1\Desktop\SMALLV~1.AVI",False)
ConvertToYUY2()
ResizeTo=0 global ResizeMethod=1 DebugMode=0
GammaCorrection=1.0 Hue=0 Saturation=1.0 Brightness=0 Contrast=1.0
DetectedTop=0 DetectedHeight=352
OverscanH=0.04 OverscanV=0.06 BlockOptimization=0 AsoTV=1
global Bicubic_b_Value=0 global Bicubic_c_Value=0.6
DestinationWidth=480
DestinationHeight=480
LoadPlugin("D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\SimpleResize\SimpleResize.dll")
# Import("D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\qmf15b1.avs")
# Import("D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\QMF_functions.avs")
# Import("D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\PreResize.avs")
Import("D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\FACAR.avs")
# Import("D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\PostResize.avs")
# Import("D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\PostResize.avs")
Import("D:\DVD Rip\video\ResampleAudio.avs")
ResampleAudio(44100)
----AVS End----

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 3:52:59 AM
- AVI to SVCD Conversion
- AVI2SVCD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
-
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 3:52:59 AM
- Free on drive D: 4782.44 mb
- Restarting from: Pulldown
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 3:53:02 AM
- Free on drive D: 4782.44 mb
- Video Pulldown
--------------------------------------------------------
Executing Pulldown. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\pulldown\pulldown.exe" "D:\DVD Rip\video\Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv" "D:\DVD Rip\muxed\Pulldown_Encoded_Video_NTSC.mpv"
Video pulldown finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 3:56:50 AM
- Free on drive D: 4080.09 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 3:56:53 AM
- Free on drive D: 4080.06 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 3:56:56 AM
- Free on drive D: 4080.06 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 3:56:59 AM
- Free on drive D: 4080.06 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 784 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "D:\DVD Rip\muxed\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/16/2004 4:06:14 AM
- Free on drive D: 3283.06 mb
- Conversion done!
--------------------------------------------------------

So, if anyone has an idea or explanation as to why my audio would be slightly ahead of the video, please let me know what could the problem be. Thanks.

[tylo]

it would always leave open a CCE window.You mean after the Sizing pass?

Don't know about the audio sync problems, but I would certainly try without resampling to 44khz. It slightly hurts sound quality, and it's a waste of time - every DVD player handles 48khz audio for SVCD, although it's not the specs.

btw: For a 43min movie (episode), you don't need D2SRoBa/OPV - Go CBR (max).

[lordkinbote]

Thanks, Tylo. I'll try the CBR with CCE. I'm thinking its the VBR audio of the AVIs I just downloaded 'cause they play find in my media player but when I put them in VirtualDub, they get the VBR message and then are out of sync slightly. Also, the previous AVIs I encoded didn't get the VBR message in VD. I'm trying to figure out what to do about it through trial and error of saving the audio out to an uncompressed wav and then saving the avi with that audio, etc.

I didn't even realize it was set to change to 44k. I must not have changed the default settings.

[lordkinbote]

Originally posted by tylo
You mean after the Sizing pass?


No, after the whole video encoding was done. There would still be an open CCE window.

[lordkinbote]

Originally posted by tylo

btw: For a 43min movie (episode), you don't need D2SRoBa/OPV - Go CBR (max).

Do you mean there will be no quality improvment using D2SRoBa over CBR? I didn't see anyplace to specify the (max) CBR bitrate. I just specified CBR and put 800MB under the Bitrate tab for the CD sizes and I figured that's what you meant. I'll see how long it takes and if it's in sync after I used the new AVI with the uncompressed audio, I'll let you know.

[tylo]

Ok, I read you bitrate a little wrong, so you may get a slight improvement by using D2SRoBa. With BR 2230 you will get a great quality anyway, especially when also using FACAR.

I'll release a new version this weekend.

/Update:
D2SRoBa v3.1.3 Configurable automatic transfer of avisynth setup after preview (default "FACAR DetectBorders" -> "FACAR"). Configure in ini file.
Added some extra pauses for CCE 2.50
Uses AutoIt3.0.87

[lordkinbote]

Cool! Great!

I did get very good quality with CBR, but I still had the sync issues even with using the new AVI with the uncompressed audio. THAT is getting a bit annoying.

[Dave25]

whats the best setting to use when in DVD output mode? i have no idea. help would be appreciated.

thanks
dave

[homerjay]

lordkinbote having read the history of your problem just wanted to ask is this an xvid or divx avi ?
for xvids here is my failsafe method as found somewhere in these forums which i think you are already using but it might help others ....

open file in vdub
ok on warning
click on video and select direct stream processing
click on audio and select full processing mode
click audio again and select conversion
select 44100 and click ok
finally click file and save as avi and specify filename

[manolito]

The new feature that automatically makes D2S jump to the Frameserver tab and select FACAR does not work on my machine. Instead of the Frameserver tab the jump goes to the DVD2AVI tab or the DVD Rip tab.

I verified that the names in the D2SRoBa.ini are correct (FACAR DetectBorders and FACAR). I also tried to change the Windows locale from German to English, but that did not help either.

My setup: Windows XP Professional German edition with all available updates from Microsoft, DVD2SVCD 1.2.1 build 3.

Any ideas?

[lordkinbote]

Thanks Homerjay,

They are xvids. I will try that out. I was using the forums and found someone's suggestion to use the AVI Decompressor in AVI2VCD and then use TMPG. That worked, but it takes about 3-4 times longer to encode with TMPG than with CCE using DVD2SVCD in AVI mode. So, I'll try that and let you know if it works. Thanks.

[lordkinbote]

Homerjay, dude, worked like a CHARM! Simply put, you rock the house.

[homerjay]

:o glad to give something back :D

[tylo]

The new feature that automatically makes D2S jump to the Frameserver tab and select FACAR does not work on my machine. Instead of the Frameserver tab the jump goes to the DVD2AVI tab or the DVD Rip tab.Oops. It only works with input DVD and ouput SVCD. Any other combination will fail. I'll try to fix.

/Update:
Fixed. D2SRoBa v3.1.4 online. :)


ps: please delete Dave's double post.

[manolito]

Thanks Tylo,
that was really fast....

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Oops. It only works with input DVD and ouput SVCD. Any other combination will fail. I'll try to fix.
Tested 3.1.4 with DVD source, DVD output frame size (FACAR ResizeTo=6), and it replaced values correctly in FACAR but did not select the appropriate script for the encode. :(

[tylo]

Hi, r6d2, nice to see your good old face again. :p
Eh. Doesn't it flip the tabs at all when you close the Preview window? (sometimes it can do that also when pressing next). Detect script must be called "FACAR DetectBorders" and encode script "FACAR". Can be changed in ini.

Btw. is it a need for multiple transfers e.g. if you have installed several "FACAR" variants (assuming it works as it should)?

Anyone else having problems with this feature?

[manolito]

Btw. is it a need for multiple transfers e.g. if you have installed several "FACAR" variants (assuming it works as it should)?
That would be great.

D2SRoBa 3.1.4 works like a charm here. There's one thing I would like to be changed, though. After jumping to the Frameserver tab and selecting the FACAR script the plugin makes another jump to the Conversion tab again. This really makes things easy for people who never change their FACAR script. However I always fiddle with the script (like commenting out lines or changing the resizer or the Gamma), so I would prefer if D2SRoBa just jumped to the Frameserver tab and selected the FACAR script (or any other script specified in the D2SRoBa.ini) and just stayed there.

[maSp]

tylo, you're da man!

This is such a nice little tool!

Today I got my first 100% OPV without the additional sizing pass. With the help of a small fakebbMPEG.bat (in DVD mode), D2SRoBa and FACAR encoding via D2S finally became THE One Click Backup (Movie Only) Solution.

:D

Cheers.

[windtrader]

With the help of a small fakebbMPEG.bat (in DVD mode), D2SRoBa and FACAR encoding via D2S finally became THE One Click Backup (Movie Only) Solution.
Wnat does the fake-out do?

[tylo]

so I would prefer if D2SRoBa just jumped to the Frameserver tab and selected the FACAR script (or any other script specified in the D2SRoBa.ini) and just stayed there.Agreed. I'll add multiple transfers too. :)

@maSp, thanks, and welcome to the forum.

[jsoto]

@windtrader

Wnat does the fake-out do?

Seems maSp is using D2S in SVCD output mode (or a previous D2S release). In DVD output mode bbmpeg tab doesn't exists, so fakebbmpeg is not needed. Personally I use D2S in SVCD output mode (but for DVDs), so a trick in bbmpeg tab is required to allow D2S to continue its work (or just to shutdown the machine).

jsoto
PS: Still didn't test the new D2SRoBa release :(

[maSp]

@windtrader, since I usually do dvd2dvd only I don't need any muxed files and therefore there's no need to run bbMPEG. Just create a batch file that contains a simple 'exit' command and place it in the bbMPEG folder. Now correct the 'bbMPEG Executable=' setting in dvd2svcd's ini file and you're done. Saves time, that's all.

@tylo, thanks. I've been around the forum for some time now but never felt to comment anything. In other words just had to do my 'homework' first. :) Btw, thanks to sYzYgY for his excellent D2SRoBa guide.

Cheers.

[maSp]

@jsoto, the bbMPEG tab doesn't exist in DVD mode yes, but DVD2SVCD runs bbMPEG anyway. Did I miss something here?

Thanks.

[windtrader]

maSp/jsoto,
When you run DVD2DVD and specify "Don't make Images" in the CD Image tab, then DVD2SVCD creates the bbMpeg files. If you specify Sonic Scenarist, I don't think it does the bbMpeg step.

Since I can no longer get Scenarist to run without blowing up, I have switched over to "Don't create Images", then use Maestro to do the final mux and authoring.

I'll add your tweak to kill the bbMpeg step which are not needed.

thx

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Hi, r6d2, nice to see your good old face again. :p
Well, my dog got tired of me taking credit for his wits and decided to take over my profile again. :D
Eh. Doesn't it flip the tabs at all when you close the Preview window? (sometimes it can do that also when pressing next). Detect script must be called "FACAR DetectBorders" and encode script "FACAR". Can be changed in ini.
I'm a good boy. Only one FACAR instance, all correct default names. :)

Tried it again with another movie. It worked! Never mind. It must have been a problem located between the keyboard and the chair. ;)

[windtrader]

I also tried the latest and it did automate the Facar switch in the frameserver tab correctly.

I do have question/problem with D2sRoba. My system locks after 15 minutes. Usually D2sRoba gets hung up, then waits until I unlock the system. Is there a way around this other than removing the system lock? I'm on XP.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by windtrader
Usually D2sRoba gets hung up, then waits until I unlock the system. Is there a way around this other than removing the system lock? I'm on XP.
Maybe a screensaver is playing tricks on you. I use SETI@Home, and it is very resource intensive. I prefer to disable it before encoding.

[windtrader]

Maybe a screensaver is playing tricks on you OK, I give up, what kind of tricks? :(

I think Autoit emulates actual user input and since the system is locked it can not proceed with typing in more commands. I don't think it is a resource issue.

The other problem I have with D2sRoBa/Autoit is when it is doing a lot of work like setting up for CCE, and I am typing or clicking away in some other windows. Depending on the timing of events, I accidently steal away the focus and Autoit gets confused and stuck. As long as I stay light and slow, or better yet, just get my hands off the system and let it do its thing, then all is fine.

[AllanonJL]

Hello!

I've never had this "bloating" of the .bin file before using ds2roba. Maybe someone could shed some light on it for me.

This post completely explains my problem:
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/archive/t193940.html

Any ideas?

Thanks!

[r6d2]

Originally posted by AllanonJL
I've never had this "bloating" of the .bin file before using ds2roba.
The details you have provided are not good enough for an appropriate diagnosis. I don't think you problem is related to the other forum's post. Please :readfaq: and :logfile: so we can help you better.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by windtrader
I think Autoit emulates actual user input and since the system is locked it can not proceed with typing in more commands. I don't think it is a resource issue.
What do you mean by locked? My system locks when I'm away because of the screen saver. Is that what you mean? I've never experienced that problem. Maybe I just got lucky?
As long as I stay light and slow, or better yet, just get my hands off the system and let it do its thing, then all is fine.
This one slipped to me from the FAQ. :thanks: for reminding it.

[windtrader]

My system locks when I'm away because of the screen saver. Is that what you mean? I've never experienced that problem. Maybe I just got lucky? Yes and Yes

and Yes (from the FAQ)
Q. Can I use the computer while D2Sroba is running?
Yes. However, D2Sroba is an AutoIt application which emulates user input. So if you are typing at the same time as the plugin is doing it, it may get confused. This is only critical during the prediction phase. After that, it is even safe to play Doom 3 (when released ). Rule of thumb: Don't touch the keyboard while D2Sroba is doing its magic.

[tylo]

I think Autoit emulates actual user input and since the system is locked it can not proceed with typing in more commands. I don't think it is a resource issue.Yes, D2SRoBa emulates user input, which can only be done if the screen saver is off. Be aware of the 'Power Option Properties' in the screen saver tab too. When using CCE 2.67, no more input emulation is done from the point where CCE starts to encode the samples (thanks to EclCCE's command line support). For CCE 2.50, it does input emulation all the way up to D2S recovers.

AutoIt has a feature of blocking the real user input while it emulates input. This would make the plugin more robust, but I haven't got that to work properly yet.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by windtrader
and Yes (from the FAQ)
It's you who got lucky this time. :) I added it to the FAQ just after posting my previous answer (and before you posted yours) :D:D:D

[windtrader]

When using CCE 2.67, no more input emulation is done from the point where CCE starts to encode the samples (thanks to EclCCE's command line support). Where I usually get hit is when D2SRoba is figuring out Q. As you say, once Q is established, there are no problems.
It's you who got lucky this time. I added it to the FAQ just after posting my previous answer (and before you posted yours) Good thing. Sure would not want to be accused of not throughly absorbing every juicy morsel of the FAQ before posting. :)

[Holomatrix]

Originally posted by DDogg
I wondering if any of the new users of the plugin would know that you have to use a special CCE template to use D2SRoBa? Maybe we should do some instructions about that and place it CLEARLY on the D2SRoBa webpage? Gee, if they did not have the right template defined with "use existing VAF" and they have not chosen it in the advanced dropdown in D2s I'm wondering what their result would be?
Hey, guys, sorry to bring this up again, but looking at the D2Sroba FAQ - Fully Automated Quality ;) post, it still does not note for new users to make this "use existing VAF" change to their templates.

[manolito]

@Holomatrix
That's old news and not valid any more. Tylo takes care of this by writing the command to use the existing VAF directly into the ECL file. This means that with the current versions of D2SRoBa there is absolutely no need to use a special CCE template with the "Use Existing VAF" statement.

@Tylo
Version 3.15 works beautifully here, especially the multiple Avisynth script transfers.

Cheers
manolito

[manolito]

Originally posted by jonny
Restrict auto I frame insertion selected (not "unselected") I guess you are always referring to size prediction (with a normal encode you should find this option off) This option seems to reduce the error on the single size prediction, you can find some tests here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62446&perpage=20&pagenumber=3
I did some tests too, encoded three DVDs with very different characteristics and different (QMF based) filtering. The results were very similar to jonny's results. The optimum value for Adjust Q dropped to 0 to -0.5, and it was a little less dependent on the amount of filtering. Overall the prediction seemed a little more accurate.

I don't know if it's worth the effort to integrate this into D2SRoba. It wouldn't take much, though. The only thing D2SRoBa would have to do is change one line in the D2SRoba.ecl file. (It would have to change "fix_gop_length" from 0 to 1.)

Cheers
manolito

[Holomatrix]

Originally posted by manolito
@Holomatrix
That's old news and not valid any more. Tylo takes care of this by writing the command to use the existing VAF directly into the ECL file. This means that with the current versions of D2SRoBa there is absolutely no need to use a special CCE template with the "Use Existing VAF" statement.

@Tylo
Version 3.15 works beautifully here, especially the multiple Avisynth script transfers.

Cheers
manolito
Good enough then. Must have missed that. Thanks

[AllanonJL]

After encoding this movie without using the Interlaced CCE template, I saw that I had horizontal lines, so I tried to redo using the regular template and changing (in DVD2SVCD) from no deinterlacing to blendfields. Every time it would get to the point "Detected CCE window" and sit there forever. I decided to try and use the Interlaced CCE template. The movie completed, but when comparing the 2, nothing seems to have changed, here is the log. Maybe someone can explain why it stops when Blendfields is selected in DVD2SVCD.

WNASPI32.DLL 4.71.1.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 2:47:12 PM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
- J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_0.IFO
- J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_1.vob
- J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_2.vob
- J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_3.vob
- J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_4.vob
- J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_5.vob
- J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_6.vob
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 2:47:17 PM
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[J:\encodes\rhcp2\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_1.vob,J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_2.vob,J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_3.vob,J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_4.vob,J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_5.vob,J:\encodes\rhcp2\VTS_01_6.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film NOT activated!
Framerate: 29970
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 2:50:35 PM
- Free on drive J: 65244.71 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x81
Filename: J:\encodes\rhcp2\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: -67 ms
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film NOT activated!
Framerate: 29970
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 2:57:07 PM
- Free on drive J: 64917.54 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Encoding Audio. Filename: J:\encodes\rhcp2\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\BeSweetLater.bat" -core( -input "J:\encodes\rhcp2\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "J:\encodes\rhcp2\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "J:\encodes\rhcp2\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -ota( -d -67 ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
Audio conversion of J:\encodes\rhcp2\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 2:57:19 PM
- Free on drive J: 64917.54 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1668571576
AudioSectors: 173784072
VideoPAPO: 23155056
ScanOffsetBytes: 219983
SeqAligningBytes: 13981129
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 0.00
PureMPEGStream: 1457431328.13
Seconds: 6123.75
CalcMPEGStream: 1457431328.13
Frames: 183319
CDSize: 800.00
Number of CDs: 2
Cut point 796.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 183319
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 4
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: One Pass VBR
Q. Factor: 20
Min. bitrate: 300
Max. bitrate: 1903
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (borders added, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("D:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
mpeg2source("J:\encodes\rhcp2\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
BilinearResize(480,360)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)
Import("J:\encodes\rhcp2\ResampleAudio.avs")
ResampleAudio(44100)
ConvertToYUY2()
----AVS End----

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 5:21:23 PM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
-
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 5:21:25 PM
- Free on drive J: 62780.87 mb
- Restarting from: Muxing and Cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 5:21:28 PM
- Free on drive J: 62780.87 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 5:21:31 PM
- Free on drive J: 62780.87 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 5:21:34 PM
- Free on drive J: 62780.87 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 5:21:37 PM
- Free on drive J: 62780.87 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 687 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "J:\encodes\rhcp2\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Length of J:\encodes\rhcp2\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2041 Seconds
Offset in Seconds: 2043
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 687 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "J:\encodes\rhcp2\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Length of J:\encodes\rhcp2\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2041 Seconds
Offset in Seconds: 4084
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 687 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "J:\encodes\rhcp2\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/22/2004 5:35:30 PM
- Free on drive J: 60724.22 mb
- Conversion done!
--------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.1.4, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.87.0
- 2004-01-22 14:46:21
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 5.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 35 / 40
- Adjust Q : 1.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 2.0%, or > 0.5% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Audio after video : Yes (224 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:41:56 (183319 frames, 29.97 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (224 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1903 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 300, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 9180
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=832 (832) audio1_br=224 video_sz=636142009 fill=100% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1903 (1903) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1455021926 fill=100% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2530 (2975) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1934422214 fill=86.2% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2530 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2288 (Q=35, err=?%, size=1749672659, sample sz=87617732)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 3
- Target mpv BR : 2530 (max 2530) kbps, size=1934422214 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Reduced CD size : 691 (fill = 86.2%)
- Using CBR mode
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Movie
- 2004-01-22 15:05:22
- Actual mpv file size:
01/22/2004 04:47 PM 1934420292 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv
- OPV pass result: CCE 2.67 speed: 1
--------------------------------------------------------
- Executing: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "J:\encodes\rhcp2\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "J:\encodes\rhcp2\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "J:\encodes\rhcp2\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -ota( -d -67 ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- Recover:
- 2004-01-22 17:21:13

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Holomatrix
Good enough then. Must have missed that. Thanks
@Holomatrix, Q9 of Part I clearly states that D2Sroba does not need any custom templates, sorry. :readfaq: :D:D:D

[maSp]

... However, you are advised to use RB's CCE templates in DVD2SVCD whether you use D2Sroba or not.

Well, I must admit that I'm a bit confused. According to DDog's advice on the first page of this thread

[...] a template for use with D2sRoBa must be defined and chosen in d2s [...]

it's always a good idea to use a custom template, one for progressive and one for interlaced material. However, I have RB's templates installed using CCE 2.66.01.07. But what's confusing me is some of the settings in RB's templates do not match the settings DDog recommends. I'm not that deep into the CCE magic so any comments on this are welcome.

Cheers.

[Holomatrix]

That's were I got confused too. The FAQ must have been written after ddogs statment on the first page for which they have already concluded in future posts that this special template addition is not needed. May be ddog can edit the first page post and omit the suggestion.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by maSp
Well, I must admit that I'm a bit confused. According to DDog's advice on the first page of this thread
You've been doing your homework. :)

Quite a bunch of materal on this thread is experimental. Several things have been tried. Some of them implemented, others discarded.

The rule of thumb is that the FAQ gathers the collective knowledge and state of the art advices.

[Holomatrix]

That would only be valid if a "FAQ" was kept up to date. Correct :)

@r6d2 - Why did you think I brought this back up in the first place. I was comparing the beginning of the thread to your FAQ. Just was thinking about the new user reading both threads and maybe getting confused as maSp just proved. I'm not saying that your FAQ isn't great but you are only human, aren’t you ? :) Sometimes things can get overlooked.

[maSp]

@r6d2, thanks for clearing this up.

I was not complaining. Hey, our goal is to get the best out of it, isn't it? :)

Anyway, I'm following the FAQ right now, using RB's templates.
But I'm still in doubt about some settings and if the templates are actually used or not. For example, since I'm in PAL land shouldn't the frame setting point to 25 instead of 30? IMHO this setting isn't altered by the templates anyway but still one of those dumb questions. Well, seems like it's time to have a look at the CCE forum ... :rolleyes:

Cheers.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Holomatrix
That would only be valid if a "FAQ" was kept up to date. Correct :)
Well, when I released the FAQ I asked for new ideas and improvements, and guess what: I did not get any. I have done some updates after that with new subjects brought up on this thread, but the goal is to keep the FAQ is as good as it gets.
Just was thinking about the new user reading both threads and maybe getting confused as maSp just proved.
On this very thread, after some posts on the matter, it was concluded that VAF setting was not needed either on D2S nor on the templates. Of course things can be overlooked, like this example shows, but that's precisely what I mean. A thread like this is more like a development thread, so nothing is final here until it is actually done.
I'm not saying that your FAQ isn't great but you are only human, aren’t you ? :)
Of course I am, but I credited some superhuman people on the foreword of the FAQ, so trust it. ;)

[Holomatrix]

Originally posted by r6d2
the goal is to keep the FAQ is as good as it gets.
Cool :) That's what I like to hear, as time progresses it is possible for these things to get overlooked, and to keep it your goal.

I have done some updates
This is all I was thinking when I bought it up but apparently as you have let me known, was already accomplished. Good enough then :)

Of course I am, but I credited some superhuman people on the foreword of the FAQ,
for which I give thanks :)

Anyway, I think we should start moving forward again :)

[AllanonJL]

Anyone have any ideas about my previous post ?

Thanks

[jonny]

About the manolito's post ("Restrict auto I frame insertion")
the correct link is this one:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62446&perpage=20&pagenumber=3
(you have missed the full link with the copy/paste ^^)

[manolito]

Oops....
Thanks jonny for the correction, I just edited the original post.

[tylo]

I don't know if it's worth the effort to integrate this into D2SRoba. It wouldn't take much, though. The only thing D2SRoBa would have to do is change one line in the D2SRoba.ecl file. (It would have to change "fix_gop_length" from 0 to 1.)That's one line of code to add. I think it's worth a try. Thank's Jonny - and manolito for reminding us. I'm going to take a short look at the 'adjust Q' computation at the same time. I think it can be a little better...

@r6d2: thanks for all your effort!
@AllanonJL: sorry, haven't used Blendfields because I don't use CCE with interlaced sources.

[bobwillis]

@AllanonJL,

I have successfully used Telecide to de-interlace PAL material. I'm not sure how it behaves with NTSC material. It may be worth a try on a short clip. BTW, I'm reliably informed (by another member) you can use progressive settings if Telecide is used.

Regards,
Bob

[AllanonJL]

Can you explain how you used telecide with Interlaced sources? That would be great since I'm trying to do everything w/ds2roba.

Thanks!

[Holomatrix]

Telecide (PAL) is another option in DVD2SVCD drop down list for de-interlaceing. I use it for NTSC whenever I have an Interlaced movie. Works great.

[AllanonJL]

Thanks, worked great! For others information, I used Telecide w/the Progressive for a full length movie.

[Venom_IL]

A little feature suggestion:

When the OPV pass result is oversized, but within the percentage allowed without a sizing pass, the CD size in dvd2svcd.ini is changed to reflect the oversized value before the D2S recovery is started so that extra images are not created by D2S (when VCDxbuild etc is executed).

For example, if the CD size in D2S is set to 800MB and the OPV pass result is 805MB which is allowed by the 1.5% acceptable oversize error set, the CD size in DVD2SVCD.ini is changed to 806 (to be on the safe side) before the recovery.

A similar method can be used for multiple CD's, for example a 1610MB oversized OPV pass result for 2 CD's would mean changing the CD size value in dvd2svcd.ini to 805 (as in 805 X 2=1610 - maybe change to 806 to again be on the safe side)

That way D2S doesn't create extra images due to oversized MPG's, and instead you can overburn like you intended (otherwise why allow an oversized mpg?).

Hope I was clear

Of course this is a trivial thing, and otherwise D2SRoba is just perfect - D2SRoBa + D2S is the best encoding platform ever :cool:

Keep up the great work

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Venom_IL
When the OPV pass result is oversized, but within the percentage allowed without a sizing pass [..]
This would a very, very nice feature indeed! Every time it happens to me I have to remux manually.

@Tylo,

The good thing is that due to D2S's underestimation of bitrate, the last image is generally shorter anyway so when oversize threashold is set to reasonable values, you would not even need to edit the media size on the project file, and overburn would not be required either.

[Venom_IL]

Second time today a mod agrees with me, must be my lucky day ;)

The problematic bit is that cutting and merging MPG's made with CCE could be a little tricky, since TMPG MPEG TOOLS only work well with MPG's made with TMPG

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Venom_IL
The problematic bit is that cutting and merging MPG's made with CCE could be a little tricky
Uh...? What do you mean by this? When I said remux manually I was talking about restarting D2S and doing everything in there. :confused:

[Venom_IL]

you're right, but for some reason i've tried to work with the mpg's ive extracted from the BIN/cue's

silly :)

[Venom_IL]

Regarding the feature Ive suggested - allow me to correct myself

It would appear as if the value "bbMPEGCDSize" in dvd2svcd_project_file.d2s needs to be adjusted as well , in addition to the CDSize values in DVD2SVCD.ini, before the recovery

Cheers :cool:

[tylo]

Venom_IL and r6d2: It shouldn't be a big deal to add this feature.

However, I have a little trouble with understanding why you want it. IF you are able and willing to overburn, why not always? Just set CD size to max to begin with, e.g 806. If you at the same time reduce the Q adjust, it's not likely that you will get oversized images, and you will basically end up with what you are requesting (but must overburn 1st image - for 1CD, no difference). Is this because you don't really want to overburn, but it's OK "sometimes"?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
However, I have a little trouble with understanding why you want it. IF you are able and willing to overburn, why not always?
Hummm... I see what you mean. However, it is not about overburning, at least in my case.

I set margins to [2.0, 0.6]. I do that because I've noticed that sometimes when the image is oversized within that range, no overburning is needed. I just tell D2S to build 2 images and he eliminates the third (and small) one immediately, without requiring overburn and without losing a split second.

Remember there is usually some slack on the last image.

[tylo]

Ok, then I get it. In the code I have:
Case Else
If ($g_est_result > 100.1) Then
$g_numCDs = $g_numCDs + 1
EndIf

As you see, I already have a tiny slack :). I could increase it to 100.6. Can you guarantee that last image won't be too big then? Oh, well, I could put it as a key in the ini file.

(edit: g_est_result is the real result of opv pass - bad naming)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
I could increase it to 100.6. Can you guarantee that last image won't be too big then?
No, I cannot guarantee that. :(

BTW, what is that code for? I don't get it. What I see is at this point, after the OPV pass, you already know how many images there are, so, you just set that number into the project file. To minimize the risk of overburning, you could even set all images to the same size, as you do with CBR mode.

[tylo]

My idea was the following: If you e.g. have limits [2% .. 1%], it means you are willing to sacrifice the last 1% of the movie, normally 1-2 minutes of the credits. Of course if you do frame-selection (I normally don't), it's no good. The code simply forces bbMPEG to create one extra image, which can be thrown away, but the first one(s) will fit without overburning.To minimize the risk of overburning, you could even set all images to the same size, as you do with CBR mode.Yes, but that requires that you have given some slack on the CD size. If you already have set CD size to max (e.g 810), there is no room for further overburning - you have choose:

- OK to cut off last 1-2 mins --> set limits to [2% .. 1%]
- Not OK --> set limits to [2% .. 0%], and do sizing pass if over.

I see that there are two possible paths to follow here. As you say we could always just use the num CDs that was calculated, and just increase CD size if needed. That could easily lead to that all images becomes too big. Also, many cannot overburn, and it would make it useless to set the upper limit above ~ 0.2%.

The code we were discussing was to strech the last CD a bit further before the need for cutting, because we know that there is a small safety area in D2S's FitCD calculations.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
The code we were discussing was to strech the last CD a bit further before the need for cutting, because we know that there is a small safety area in D2S's FitCD calculations.
OK, I get it now. I usually cut the credits with frame selection, and you don't, so I end up with a smaller last image, and you don't. :)

Maybe it is easier the way you do it. However, if the last image contains some of the movie intead of just credits, you have to reencode, do you? It's not frequent I guess?

The way I do it, I began to use higher than 0 top boundary to make use of that slack.
As you say we could always just use the num CDs that was calculated, and just increase CD size if needed. That could easily lead to that all images becomes too big.
Why? Not in my experience. In fact, CD size would be actually decreased in the general case, when oversize boundary is within D2S's error in the BR calculation.

You have n-1 800 size images, and one last 795 or so. The average is smaller than 800. ;)

[tylo]

In fact, CD size would be actually decreased in the general case, when oversize boundary is within D2S's error in the BR calculation. You have n-1 800 size images, and one last 795 or so. The average is smaller than 800.True, but we were discussing the case when the mpv file is oversized. It seems to me that we need to introduce a second upper margin for this: cut-margin

if opv result > sizing-pass-upper-margin, then
-- do sizing pass (as today)
else, if opv-result > cut-margin, then
-- cut image above that margin, by adding an extra image (as today 100.1%)
else
-- keep number of CDs, (and expand and equalize CD sizes?). (new feature)

Today, this cut-margin is at 0.1% (100.1%). You could simply set a high cut-margin (above sizing-pass-upper-limit), to get what you were expecting, but I would set to something like 0.5%, and maybe the sizing-pass-upper-limit to 1.0% (when not frame-selecting).

OK, I'll take a look at it. If I do it, I won't add GUI for it now - only ini file setting.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
True, but we were discussing the case when the mpv file is oversized.
You are right, but remember D2Sroba may think it is oversized but in fact it is not, due to the slack in D2S's BR calculation. That's the second pass I want to avoid by letting the "over" margin be a little above 0.
OK, I'll take a look at it. If I do it, I won't add GUI for it now - only ini file setting.
That'd be good enough! Your solution seems to do the trick.

I have another dangerous idea... (DDogg would call it an open can of worms) :)

What about using FitCD calculations? FitCD is very precise, and has all the tweaks D2S supports and more. You could write a plugin within D2Sroba which spans FitCD after the DVD2AVI stage and get the exact BR needed. (FitCD even supports custom CD sizes for overburners.)

BTW, When using D2Sroba with the AutoFitCD plugin it seems to believe it is about FACAR and moves though a lot of tabs... :( Have you tried that?

[tylo]

That's the second pass I want to avoid by letting the "over" margin be a little above 0.Good, we seem to agree. I've implemented it with default 0.4. It does not increase CD size, but does not "cut" (add extra image) unless it is more than 0.4%, or whatever you set, oversized.You could write a plugin within D2Sroba which spans FitCD after the DVD2AVI stage and get the exact BR needed.Wow. Yes, it could be done, but I don't think D2S's calculations are so bad. You know we're talking unprecise estimations here anyway. I also fear it would be quite a bit of work involved, but not sure how much.BTW, When using D2Sroba with the AutoFitCD plugin it seems to believe it is about FACAR and moves though a lot of tabs... Have you tried that?Hehe, thats a feature, not a bug! When you close preview window, D2SRoBa checks if AVISYNTH.INI has been modified (both AutoFitCD- and FACAR- DetectBorders modifies it). If so it flips away to the 'Frameserver' tab, and checks its settings. In FACAR's case, it uses a 'rule' in the D2SRoBa.ini file to jump from DetectBorder to the real script. (AutoFitCD does that last step on its own).

PS: I'll release v3.2.0 with quite a few small news, soon.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
I don't think D2S's calculations are so bad.
No, they are not. But I think the current status of D2Sroba/DVD2SVCD is suitable enough so we can start aiming towards perfection. :)
You know we're talking unprecise estimations here anyway.
AFAIK, FitCD has 0.1% precision.

[tylo]

AFAIK, FitCD has 0.1% precision
I meant D2SRoBa size estimation from samples. Also, one Q step is normally 3-4% in size, so you can't expect better than 97-98% fill by OPV (only if you're lucky). For the sizing pass, it's a different matter. Your suggestion is intriguing, but as I said, I don't think I will find time for it.

I will be very grateful if you could put some of the useful stuff from these last posts into the FAQ, for the next release. I'm going to throw out my own documentation, and only provide a link to your FAQ. I'll rather put some credits there to people who've earned it. ;)

[tylo]

Please test out the new plugin v3.2.0 RC1. Not yet on the website. It is updated to work with upcoming DVD2SVCD 1.2.2, so it will be a required update then. It should be backward compatible with the current D2S 1.2.1, so please report if there are problems.

/EDIT: v3.2.0 released.

[r6d2]

@Tylo, have you looked at that idea of integrating KISS when Q is above but near Auto Q, to see if one less CD is possible automatically?

[tylo]

Not yet, but that could be a fun thing to do. I don't think it would require that much effort either. If you can describe how you would go about to do it manually (in fair detail), I would get a good overview of the work involved. :) PM or mail me. (Feb is a tight month for me, though).

[r6d2]

Last night I left 3 movies on a batch:
@ECHO OFF
@REM DVD2SVCD Batch Control

Start "2004-02-04 22:48" /WAIT "C:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\D2Sroba.exe" -batch Start /WAIT C:\ARCHIV~1\DVD2SVCD\DVD2SVCD.exe -d2s:"J:\Movies\La Liga Extraordinaria\Source\dvd2svcd project file.d2s" -run -shutdown


Start "2004-02-04 23:17" /WAIT "C:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\D2Sroba.exe" -batch Start /WAIT C:\ARCHIV~1\DVD2SVCD\DVD2SVCD.exe -d2s:"J:\Movies\Aliens\Source\dvd2svcd project file.d2s" -run -shutdown


Start "2004-02-04 23:43" /WAIT "C:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\D2Sroba.exe" -batch Start /WAIT C:\ARCHIV~1\DVD2SVCD\DVD2SVCD.exe -d2s:"J:\Movies\ET\Source\dvd2svcd project file.d2s" -run -shutdown

Today, only the first one was done. The problem seems to be the "shutdown", but if I remove it I get an AutoIt "number of arguments in batch file" error.

[tylo]

Replace -shutdown with -exit on all but the last convertion. You must have either one, therefore two parameters are required. :)

[r6d2]

Thanks, but I run into another problem. When setting multiple batch jobs, the AVS scripts are not saved correctly. All encodes are done with the same script. :( Can you verify that?

[tylo]

You mean the script itself, right? Not which script. Then I believe you are right, and I am afraid that that is a DVD2SVCD batch problem (I presume there was no AVITYNTH.INI file in the project directory when you did the d2s batch prepares?). It does save which avisynth setup you use in the project file, but it does not save the scripts themselves for each project - they're in the global AVISYNTH.INI. Hmm. this is what we lost when he splitted the DVD2SVCD.INI file in ver 1.2.1. With ver 1.1.3 and earlier, everything was in the same file...

It would be an easy fix for either D2S or D2SRoBa to do that:
- On batch prepare, copy the AVISYNTH.INI file to the project directory.
- On batch run, (temporarily?) copy the AVISYNTH.INI back from the project to the D2S home directory before starting, (and restore the original just before closing D2SRoBa?).

But, first ask dvd2svcd if he will do anything about it.

/ADD: This problem is serious when we use FACAR and AutoFitCD, which always changes the scripts for each project.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
But, first ask dvd2svcd if he will do anything about it.
I also suspected it had to do with the AVISYNTH file structure change, so I already reported it to him. Seems the subject got his attention, so hold your horses. ;)

It's weird nobody had noticed that, since the new AVISYNTH structure is in use for quite a while. Maybe there are not many batchers out there which use AutoFitCD or FACAR. On regular encodes with default resizers this is probably not a problem.

[r6d2]

I have encoded 3 movies with the last version, and results are as follows:
- 2004-02-05 23:34:48
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 21)
- OPV pass result: 100.5% on target

- 2004-02-05 08:30:25
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 29)
- OPV pass result: 100.9% on target

- 2004-02-04 23:57:53
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 15)
- OPV pass result: 99.5% on target

In all of them Adjust Q was set to 0.

Prediction seems to have found a sweet spot. Can anyone else verify this?

[manolito]

Yes, I can confirm this. I also did three encodes with the new "sample_estimation_fix=1", and I got very close to 100%. It seems that the optimum value for Adjust Q is around -0.5 for me, so maybe we should ask Tylo to add some negative values to the dropdown listbox in the next version. Thanks to Jonny for the tests he did.

And a big Thank You to Tylo, Version 3.20 works perfectly.

[Fugdefino]

Is there any way to batch encode multiple avi's with this plugin?

[tylo]

In all of them Adjust Q was set to 0.
Prediction seems to have found a sweet spot. Can anyone else verify this?
-------------
It seems that the optimum value for Adjust Q is around -0.5 for me, so maybe we should ask Tylo to add some negative values to the dropdown listbox in the next version.Pretty. I haven't tested too much myself, but it doesn't come as a surprise. I'll set 0.0 as default, and give it a range [-2.0 .. 2.0].

I've found a few small flaws in the batch mode, e.g. if you have prepared one movie with DVD and one with SVCD output, it will fail. Fixed in next release. dvd2svcd has a fix for r6d2's problem too. :)

It's not support for batching AVI projects, but I think I know how it could be done. Time will tell. ;)

[Venom_IL]

This tool seems to be just getting better and better :eek:

[Venom_IL]

Hey, and if you're changing defaults, why not change them all according to r6d2's FAQ (Auto Q=35 etc) ?

Oh, and another idea - perhaps allow D2SRoBa's log to be minimized to the tray as well ?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by manolito
It seems that the optimum value for Adjust Q is around -0.5 for me
- Adjust Q : -0.5
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-02-07 02:15:18
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 20)
- OPV pass result: 95.7% on target

:(

I think it still depends heavily on the integer nature of Q.

@Tylo, a small request. Could you save the D2Sroba_log in the folder where logs reside? I mean, the folder of dvd2svcd_log? I like to keep the logs and that would save me moving it every time. ;)

[windtrader]

I've been using D2SRoba for a bit now and usually it takes no more than threee estimates to get going. This run took 5 times and was till off. Is this unusual or have I been fortunate so far?


- Movie length : 01:58:09 (169986 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (384 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 4791 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 800, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 2556
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=4791 (4791) audio1_br=384 video_sz=4245927834 fill=100% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 4791 (max 9400) kbps, size=4245927834 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2560 (Q=32, err=-46.6%, size=2268915668, sample sz=34116624)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5962 (Q=8, err=24.4%, size=5284534877, sample sz=79461080)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4103 (Q=16, err=-14.4%, size=3637006091, sample sz=54687960)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4615 (Q=13, err=-3.7%, size=4090072783, sample sz=61500512)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4814 (Q=12, err=0.5%, size=4266528093, sample sz=64153788)
- Determined Q : 11 = round(12 - 0.7 + (0.5)/4.2)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-02-07 03:53:44
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 11)
- OPV pass result: 97.1% on target (4122810816 / 4245927834) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.4
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-02-07 05:18:28
- Start VBR sizing pass (4791 kbps)
- Sizing pass result: 99.8% on target (4235973328 / 4245927834) CCE 2.67 speed: 1.4

[tylo]

This run took 5 times and was till off. Is this unusual or have I been fortunate so far?You have been fortunate. A little analysis: The second try Q=8 was only 3 from the optimal value, but still it was 24% to high! With such big steps it is harder for the current algorithm to figure out the correct Q. At worst it will use 6 trials (I think). Note also that the selected Q=11 gave 97.1%, but the Q steps were 4.2%, so using Q=10 would have given you about 101.3% (i.e. 11 was optimal).

@r6d2: As jonny also did find, I still believe that estimation accuracy increases with higher sample %. Maybe that is more so now with the new switch on. Try the same movie with 2%, and see if you get one lower Q. (Remember that 1% sample picks only about 0.7sec of each minute of the movie).
/add: about the request: yes, the intention was to put the log along with d2s's log, so I'll look at it.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Note also that the selected Q=11 gave 97.1%, but the Q steps were 4.2%, so using Q=10 would have given you about 101.3% (i.e. 11 was optimal).This is what I mean by the integer nature of Q.
@r6d2: As jonny also did find, I still believe that estimation accuracy increases with higher sample %. Maybe that is more so now with the new switch on.
This is very reasonable. Common sense. Maybe the insert GOP thing used before generated enough entropy to influence the results.
Try the same movie with 2%, and see if you get one lower Q.- Sample percent : 1.0
- Number of CDs : 3
- Target mpv BR : 1873 (max 5072) kbps, size=2291829470 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1952 (Q=32, err=4.2%, size=2388885416, sample sz=23970384)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1872 (Q=34, err=-0.1%, size=2291268571, sample sz=22990884)
- Determined Q : 34 = round(34 - 0.0 + (-0.1)/2.1)

- Sample percent : 2.0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 3
- Target mpv BR : 1873 (max 5072) kbps, size=2291829470 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1908 (Q=32, err=1.9%, size=2335645065, sample sz=46723052)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1867 (Q=33, err=-0.3%, size=2284695537, sample sz=45703840)
- Determined Q : 33 = round(33 - 0.0 + (-0.3)/2.2)

Gee, what are you having for lunch lately? :D

Thanks, man. I'll try to see if this turns into a pattern.

[r6d2]

@Tylo,

Trying batch mode with the B16 version and 3.2.0rc1 and D2Sroba hungs after ripping... I shut it down manually.

/Add: Never mind. Seems to be fixed in 3.2.0

[jonny]

It would be interesting to run some testing in this way:
try to find after what %, you start to obtain near the same Q

Maybe the results will be different, depending on the range where the best Q falls and the movie itself... but giving an approximate figure of this could be really useful

[r6d2]

Good idea! IIRC, @Tylo and I exchanged some posts long time ago about using incremental sampling, i.e., use 1% for the first iteration, 2% for the second one, etc. The idea is that the more you approach to the target Q, the more precise would be your estimation.

With this method of yours of improving precision by eliminating the forced I-frames, this incremental sampling fails though when optimum Q is near AutoQ, since on this case D2Sroba seldom iterates too much.

But another good idea from you, jonny. Definetely worth a try. :goodpost:

[tylo]

@Tylo and I exchanged some posts long time ago about using incremental sampling, i.e., use 1% for the first iteration, 2% for the second one, etc. The idea is that the more you approach to the target Q, the more precise would be your estimation.

With this method of yours of improving precision by eliminating the forced I-frames, this incremental sampling fails though when optimum Q is near AutoQ, since on this case D2Sroba seldom iterates too much.
My memory must have gone weak, because I can't remember that discussion at all. But the idea is excellent.
This is how I think it can be done:
- Start test 1 with 0.5% sample
- Use that %, until the error (distance from correct size) is less than some lower bould (e.g 8%), then increase to specified %.

This means, it should always do at least 2 tests. If first one by chance has a very small error (e.g. <0.5%), it would normally accept that Q as the target, but we should do one extra with specified %.

The method will work well if the difference between estimations using a 0.5% and X% is always less than some limit, e.g 4%. I believe that this is a reasonable assumption. Comments?

[jonny]

Atm i'm testing a slightly different way.

It's based on the same concepts behind:

"Ping-pong" method from incredible
( http://kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7626 )

and

"Long-short" method from ARnet_tenRA
( http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60191 )

I'll try to explain the basics, it's really interesting.

Suppose you run a size prediction with "Q" = Q1 and "% of the movie" = P1, obtaining the predicted size S1.
Now suppose you run a new size prediction, always with Q1, but using a different % of the movie, P2, obtaining the predicted size S2.

define K = S1 / S2
With some testing you'll notice that, using the same options and changing only the Q, K is costant.

Can be used in this way:
Calculate K with 2 predictions, one with an higher % of the movie (Long) and one with a low % of the movie (Short)
After this you can go on with only Short prediction, fixing the final size thanks to K.


The main problem with this method is the max bitrate limitation.
When you are near to saturation, K is no more costant and start to converge to 1.
(i'll post a graphic later when i'll go home)


Actually i'm testing a slightly different implementation, i try to do the Long prediction near to the best Q, so the effect of the max bitrate is lower (i'm running a first short pass with 0.1%, to get an initial Q, than the Long size pred. with Q, than another short pass fixing sizes with K, to get the second Q)
At this point, i'm adding the Newton - Raphson Method to final fix the Q.
On the full 1-300 range no more than 3 Long size prediction seems necessary, but i'm still testing, take this as is.

There are many ways to optimize stuffs, maybe we are only at the start of the search :)

[tylo]

Thanks, jonny!
Interesting. But I see the problems with the max BR saturated samples, where K converges to 1. I would rather first do short samples to make a rough estimation of Q (until being withing a small percent from the target). Then go with long samples (hopefully only one). D2SRoBa finds Q often with only three samples, but take widtraders "near" worst case scenario:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2560 (Q=32, err=-46.6%, size=2268915668, sample sz=34116624)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5962 (Q=8, err=24.4%, size=5284534877, sample sz=79461080)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4103 (Q=16, err=-14.4%, size=3637006091, sample sz=54687960)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4615 (Q=13, err=-3.7%, size=4090072783, sample sz=61500512)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4814 (Q=12, err=0.5%, size=4266528093, sample sz=64153788

You can do the first 4 tests with short samples, e.g 0.5%. The err would be a little different, but close enough (1-3% diff?). Then when err < 5%, do long samples, until converging (in this case 1, I would think). As you see, this will not be affected by the max bitrate saturation problem. So instead of encoding 5*2% = 10%, I'd do 4*0.5%+2% = 4% with the same estimation accuracy :)

I will think before I do all this though, because the plugin works well and fast as is - and like I said, normally only 3 samples are needed.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by jonny
There are many ways to optimize stuffs, maybe we are only at the start of the search :) Just when we thought it could not get any better, you find this diamond. :thanks:

About the max BR effect, it may be overcome easily. Set it to 5200, which should be more than adequate for any 4x player around. I doubt there are still any 2x CD players on modern standalones.

[jonny]

would rather first do short samples to make a rough estimation of Q (until being withing a small percent from the target). Then go with long samples (hopefully only one)

Yep, this is what i'm doing, but, after this, i'm adding another short pass using K, the Q obtained at this stage is really good, usually differs 0-3 units from the best Q (to make a summary i do a first short search, a long size prediction with the Q obtained, another short search fixing sizes with K, obtaining a new Q ... at this point you have anyway 2 good Qs to start with Newton).

With a low maxbr, or really near to saturation, the figure start to change :(, that's why additional long predictions are strictly required.
A good point of this way is that seems to works good on the full range (and predicting high Qs is easy). If i really find that no more than 3 long prediction are required, i'll go for this way (at least you know that the worst case is 3 prediction with the % specified + ~1.0% of the movie for the short passes)


ou can do the first 4 tests with short samples, e.g 0.5%. The err would be a little different, but close enough (1-3% diff?). Then when err < 5%, do long samples, until converging (in this case 1, I would think). As you see, this will not be affected by the max bitrate saturation problem. So instead of encoding 5*2% = 10%, I'd do 4*0.5%+2% = 4% with the same estimation accuracy

This looks really good to me too, only testing can give the truth :)
(maybe what you suggest can be in some way merged to what i suggest... there are many possibilities)


@r6d2:
I thank you too, you don't have an idea of how many posts from you i've read :)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by jonny
@r6d2:
I thank you too, you don't have an idea of how many posts from you i've read :)
Let me guess... not more that 1323, including this one. :)

Anyway, I used to keep my post per day count under Pi, but since I became a mod that was absolutely impossible.

[jonny]

Let me guess... not more that 1323, including this one.

LOL :D
You can use a binary search, try a number and i'll tell you if it's lower or higher :)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by jonny
You can use a binary searchI'd rather use the Newton method. :D

Anyway, I suggested Tylo once about using higher frame sizes instead of lowering Q. I cannot notice much difference from the source when using Q=32 or so. Then, I decided to increase frame size in FACAR to keep more sharpness, in spite of Q being higher than those I'd get with SVCD frame size.

I suggested Tylo to let D2Sroba do the same, by iterating on the resolution, but he did not like the idea because of spec abiding reasons. I also believe in spec abiding encodes, but today's players play almost everything. You don't need to be that strict. Standards are adopted because people use them, not because the are well defined.

Besides, any VCD 2.0 player will play 704x480/576 frame sizes, so there is no actual reason to refrain from using it. 4x CD readers are common now, so bitrates needed for higher frames sizes are not a problem either.

As you are surely aware, this way you can encode practically all the source, without losing a single pixel of the width. This kind of DVD-class encodes on CD could be called "Poor man's DVD".

Then I found out that iterating on resolution is actually not needed. Once you have a sample, you can project the effect a different frame size will have in BR by a simple proportion. AFAIK, this is what len0x does in GK and AutoGK.

So, the idea is simple. Encode a sample with the minimum sharpness you want (SVCD, for instance), the minimun quantization you want (Q32, for instance) and then determine the actual frame size that will fit on the target number of media obtained with the sample.

Implementing this is as easy as changing the ResizeTo parameter in FACAR, and you would not believe how these encodes look like in my Canon projector. I'll never buy a 16:9 TV! ;)

What do you think? Maybe you can help me convince Tylo... :)

[jonny]

Yep, this is quite normal with DivX/XviD, and usually the first changes (after a compressibility test) are made to resolution/resizing filters.

I've not tested this with mpeg2, but it's quite interesting... all depends on how many players are able to handle nonstandard resolutions (i have to do a test with mine, if works... there is a new factor to play with)

[manolito]

Implementing this is as easy as changing the ResizeTo parameter in FACAR, and you would not believe how these encodes look like in my Canon projector. I'll never buy a 16:9 TV!

@r6d2
Now you've outed yourself! No wonder you always prefer quality over size. :D

For the rest of us who still have to watch their DVDs on a standard CRT TV set, here's a little reality check: (the numbers come from http://www.faqs.org/faqs/movies/tech/standards-faq/ )

For analog TV sets horizontal resolution is still measured in "lines". That means how many vertical alternating black and white lines can be displayed before they become a fuzzy grey. This is the real world horizontal resolution, and it is mainly limited by the video bandwidth of the TV set electronics. To put it in perspective, here are some numbers for popular applications:

VHS: 240 lines
S-VHS: 400 lines
Analog TV broadcast: 330 lines
Laserdisc: 450 lines
CRT TV set: 450 lines

For an analog CRT TV set to actually reach this resolution it takes excellent electronics plus an S-VHS connection to the DVD player.

This means that no CRT TV is even remotely capable of displaying the standard DVD horizontal resolution of 720. If you watch your movies on a standard CRT TV, selecting a horizontal resolution above 480 (SVCD) is a waste of precious bitrate.

Cheers
manolito

[r6d2]

Originally posted by manolito
If you watch your movies on a standard CRT TV, selecting a horizontal resolution above 480 (SVCD) is a waste of precious bitrate.Yes, if that's your purpose, definetely. In fact, IIRC anything above 352 is.

(Except you have a wife like mine who likes to see the movies in 4:3 and uses the DVD zoom mode, :) where that extra bitrate is precious.)

My standalone does not recognize anamorphic SVCDs, but zooms up to 4 times, and higher frame sizes are valuable there. I've always wondered what would the infamous resize of 16:9 TVs applied to standard SVCDs would be like, but never gone to a store to make an actual test. :)

Anyway, manolito, remember that for archival purposes you may as well be willing to increase quality as much as you can. You never know when a projector will be left at your Christmas tree. ;)

/Add.
I forgot something very important: These Poor Man's DVDs can also be played on your PC, connected to a digital TV, hi res monitor or the like. Flexibility has its price, but you get to see MPEG-4 quality on an MPEG-2 player.

[windtrader]

I was curious about the Q calculated by D2SRoba.

Is the value of Q calculated solely on the specified source and does not take into consideration the destination type (DVD, SVCD) or size?

When computing Q, does it assume that a source that fits onto the destination without any compression is optimal and Q will never be lower than that value? What is the lowest Q (best quality) value possible?

thx

[tylo]

My standalone does not recognize anamorphic SVCDs, but zooms up to 4 times, and higher frame sizes are valuable there. I've always wondered what would the infamous resize of 16:9 TVs applied to standard SVCDs would be like, but never gone to a store to make an actual test.
Well, I have a Philips 32" 100hz 16:9, and for 1.85:1 movies, I encode in 16:9 mode (with borders). I often add subtitles, where the second line is on the black border. Therefore I zoom to 14:9 (preset), which leaves small black borders around the movie. This is perfect for this format. Also when zooming to 16:9, it looks great, and is hardly distinguable from the DVD - but it is a little more blurred!

For 2.35:1 movies, I normally encode in 4:3 mode, and zoom to widescreen on my TV - only horizontal stretch. Gives even better results (but friends and familiy with 4:3 TVs can't borrow them). On some of these, I've had a hard time seeing any differences from the DVD.

@windtrader: The calculated Q is based on both the source quality and the destination type/size. I.e. both if you change the source, while keeping the destination settings, or if you only change the destination settings, different Q's will be calculated.

When computing Q, does it assume that a source that fits onto the destination without any compression is optimal and Q will never be lower than that value? What is the lowest Q (best quality) value possible?Strange question (coming from you). For the first part of it, you must have missed something. :p For the second, Q=1 is the best quality possible (given Max BR is set high enough).

[windtrader]

you must have missed something. Sleep and lazy (not explaining enough):confused:

I guess the questions started popping into my head as I started to think about SVCD; seems like there are many around who use DVD2SVCD with SVCD as the target, rather than DVD. So, I wondered if I get Q11 on an encode, does that translate equally to a SVCD user. Based on your explaination of the computation, then it seems SVCD users typically get Q values in a higher range than DVD users. You may still be laughing but I have had nearly zero involvement with the SVCD stuff to date.

Q=1 is the best quality possible (given Max BR is set high enough). Given no contstraint on MaxBR, can you get Q=1 on all discs or only those that also are the best quality? For example, say I had a short 30 minute DVD of relatively low quality and set MaxBr high, would I get Q=1 on this or will it still be higher since it is accounting for the lack of good source quality?

[tylo]

it seems SVCD users typically get Q values in a higher range than DVD users. You may still be laughing but I have had nearly zero involvement with the SVCD stuff to date.Didn't mean to sound arrogant. Yep, also the number of media and media length makes a difference. A DVDR equals almost 6 CDR's, but at the same time you use higher Max BR and higher video resolution. When using 2 CDRs for SVCD, you are right that normally Q is a little higher than for typical DVDR encodings.
Given no contstraint on MaxBR, can you get Q=1 on all discs or only those that also are the best quality? For example, say I had a short 30 minute DVD of relatively low quality and set MaxBr high, would I get Q=1 on this or will it still be higher since it is accounting for the lack of good source quality?Edit: Q is equal for the complete encoding. The disks are cut later. And, yes, both bad source, and high action source could put up the Q, but you will likely get a low Q for that scenario. But with MaxBR at SVCD specs, the movie would max out, and you would get Q=1.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by windtrader
seems like there are many around who use DVD2SVCD with SVCD as the target, rather than DVD.Here, here! :D
So, I wondered if I get Q11 on an encode, does that translate equally to a SVCD user.Nope. SVCD frame size is 2/3 of DVD, so you'd get a lower Q at the same size, or a lower size at the same Q.

It's not polite to advertise oneself, but you may want to take a look at my Idiot's Guide linked on my sig for the big picture. The table you'll see on the "Deliberately incomplete format specs" section shows the output size obtained with the same Q for the same source clip.
Based on your explanation of the computation, then it seems SVCD users typically get Q values in a higher range than DVD users.This actually has to do with size being much lower. 2 CDs, for instance, give you less that 40% of a DVD space to fit your encode.
Given no contstraint on MaxBR, can you get Q=1 on all discs or only those that also are the best quality?You can get Q=1 provided you use enough space, no matter you use SVCD or DVD output frame size.

The quality of the source is irrelevant. Q is just a measure of how similar is the encode to the source, with Q=1 being "the most similar". As with any encode, garbage in, garbage out.

[windtrader]

Didn't mean to sound arrogant. No offense taken. Everyone here ALWAYS has good intentions even though you have bad manners. I can live with that.:cool:

I need to keep reminding myself that I am an Idiot too and need to read that thing every once in awhile to remind myself. There is lots of good info in there. Only a little bit seeps into this Idiot's head each time. Porosity is about same as steel.:p

[tylo]

The quality of the source is irrelevant. Q is just a measure of how similar is the encode to the source, with Q=1 being "the most similar". As with any encode, garbage in, garbage out.Bad quality source - often grainy, unsharp.
Good quality - Sharp, crisp, clean.

I may add that when encoding bad quality source, it gets much harder to make the result similar to the source. So, with a given output size, as the source quality decreases, the output quality decreases even faster. :scared:
In that sense, source quality is relevant indeed.

[maSp]

There is lots of good info in there.

So keep asking. ;)

Beside that Q discussion (very interesting btw) I have a lil request to Tylo. Since D2S and CCE comes with a shutdown check box what about D2SRoBa? Sometimes I forgot to click it in D2S an when it's gone it's gone. :D Of course this is kind of cosmetics but would be helpful if you don't like to edit the ini afterwards.

Cheers.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
In that sense, source quality is relevant indeed. You're right, but IMHO Q=1 will be the most equal to the source possible, with grain, noise and all. In that sense I mean garbage in, garbage out.

For instance, if you denoise the movie, you will lower the Q, but will you increase the quality of the encode? I think you will just encode a quite different source, which may look better indeed, but that does not mean it is more similar to the original source. Have I had too much crack? :)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by maSp
Sometimes I forgot to click it in D2S an when it's gone it's gone.Very good idea! The same happens to me with the "Batch prepare" on D2Sroba. Sometimes I decide to batch after I launched DVD2SVCD. @tylo, Do you think you might inherit that status from DVD2SVCD instead of asking previously?

[maSp]

Oh well. Tylo needs to hurry up, the tool is in an almost perfect state now and dual layer burners are waiting to be released soon. :)

What still kills me is the noise CCE produces. I have tried almost everything and haven't found a _satisfying_ workaround yet.


--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:43:35 (245377 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (384 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 3243 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 480, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 6144
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=3243 (3243) audio1_br=384 video_sz=3978788055 fill=100% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 3243 (max 9352) kbps, size=3978788055 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2639 (Q=32, err=-18.6%, size=3238869367, sample sz=81098120)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3705 (Q=22, err=14.2%, size=4546544904, sample sz=113841036)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3193 (Q=26, err=-1.5%, size=3918516531, sample sz=98115820)
- Determined Q : 25 = round(26 - 0.7 + (-1.5)/3.9)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-02-11 22:41:13
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 25)
- OPV pass result: 98.1% on target (3902701208 / 3978788055) CCE 2.67 speed: 2.04
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-02-12 00:01:23
- Start VBR sizing pass (3243 kbps)
- Sizing pass result: 99.9% on target (3975776300 / 3978788055) CCE 2.67 speed: 2.04
--------------------------------------------------------


This was Heat(RC2 PAL), one of my favorite movies. Considering the length it's still a good encode. But I can't stand that mosquito noise, like I mentioned in the Image Quality thread. Beside that, the encode is sharp and looks good. D2SRoBa only needed 3 sample runs to determine the Q where it usually needed 6 in Version 3.14. Good work.

Cheers.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by maSp
But I can't stand that mosquito noise, like I mentioned in the Image Quality thread.I've not been to that thread, but I assume you moved the IQ priority slider all the way and did not work.

I also asume the noise is not in the source. If it was not the case (so you can use a denoiser), those gurus at the Avisynth forum shold have more ideas. They have solved for me several miracle problems. Q=25 is a very good value.

[Holomatrix]

Originally posted by maSp
But I can't stand that mosquito noise, like I mentioned in the Image Quality thread.
Cheers.
Just wondering if you are using the Undot() filter. I like it for removing the mosquito noise. Other than that a simple BiCubic+Flux+Blockbuster+Undot combo is all I ever need. Looks great. Good luck

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
For 2.35:1 movies, I normally encode in 4:3 mode, and zoom to widescreen on my TV - only horizontal stretch.Just curious... Do you mean anamorphic by this?

[maSp]

Originally posted by Holomatrix
Other than that a simple BiCubic+Flux+Blockbuster+Undot combo is all I ever need.

Thanks Holomatrix, I'll give this a try and post back later.

[tylo]

Just curious... Do you mean anamorphic by this?No, 4:3 (no borders) mode. [add: remember a 2.35:1 movie still has borders in this mode]. On a 4:3 TV the movie looks vertically strethed, but a 16:9 TV can stretch the picture horizontally only (widescreen stretch), giving the correct aspect. The quality will be as for anamorphic, but it can't be shown on a 4:3 TV (although some newer 4:3 tv's can shrink picture vertically, in order to correctly view non-anamorphic 16:9 digital broadcasts). PS: All this because most DVD players (including mine) doesn't know how to handle anamorphic SVCD's.

Your other requests: Yes, and yes. I've had the same problems as you with batch and shutdown, but the current GUI tool (AutGUI.exe) is very simple. It could be solved, but it just takes more effort than it is worth. You must simply remember to set those when you have the chance. :D

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
No, 4:3 (no borders) mode.AFAIK "4:3 no borders" and "4:3 anamorphic" produce the same stream, except for the anamorphic flag. So by setting anamorphic you create and SVCD that any player which understands the flag would play correctly, for instance PowerDVD, or any future player you have (or familiy and friends would have). You might want to give this a try to not depend on manual TV adjustment.
Your other requests: Yes, and yes.Well, I guess that was more like a No and No. :)

What about the ResizeTo thing? Do you like it more now?

[DDogg]

Just doing a hit and run, but any comments on this discussion between RB and Bobwillis re 0 bias on second pass? Perhaps this has been altready discussed? If so, disregard. I don't get to this thread very much lately as 3.20 is so damn good. Of course, if I know you guys as well as I think, the worms are on the way :)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70681

[bobwillis]

I've dug my trench, donned my tin hat and am waiting for the artillery.:D

Seriously though, it does reflect my current understanding - backed up by experiment - the plots in the CCE v2.66 manual seem to confirm it. Figures A20 & A21 clearly shows the difference in quantization level. With bias=30, the quantization is variable. With bias=0, the quantization is near constant. So doing the additional VBR sizing pass with bias greater than zero will produce a non-constant quantisation. That is why the quality looks different with the VBR sizing pass enabled.

BTW, this doesn't mean Tylo (or anyone) has to modify anything, the bias for the VBR pass is clearly defined and adjustable in D2S's encoder tab. You can set it to any value greater than zero.

Regards,
Bob

[r6d2]

Originally posted by bobwillis
That is why the quality looks different with the VBR sizing pass enabled.I'm with you here, and quantization not being perfectly flat is not a bad thing IMHO.

[bobwillis]

Originally posted by r6d2
I'm with you here, and quantization not being perfectly flat is not a bad thing IMHO.
Agreed, particularly with a long film (or a high Q) where there isn't a high enough bitrate to make every scene look fantastic.

Regards,
Bob

[manolito]

From the CCE manual: "As this value (for Bias) becomes larger, more bits are allocated to simple scenes,..."

Well, normally you would think that this is undesirable, after all the reason why VBR was invented was to allocate more bits to the complicated scenes where they are needed more. Maybe it is a different story for low bitrate encodes. If the simpler scenes do not get enough bits allocated to them, compression artefacts will be much more obvious in scenes with little or no action.

It seems there are two different strategies to make sure that simpler scenes get enough bitrate: First you could specify a higher value for bias, and second you could use motion adaptive filtering (like QMF) to make things easier for the encoder on high motion scenes thus freeing up the bits for the simpler scenes.

Looks like some test encodes are in order now...

[bobwillis]

Or perhaps a third strategy - increase your minimum bitrate. I'm not sure this would be an ideal approach though - since it would prevent saving bitrate on black blank screens etc.

Regards,
Bob

[r6d2]

Originally posted by manolito
If the simpler scenes do not get enough bits allocated to them, compression artefacts will be much more obvious in scenes with little or no action.Hmmm... I don't think so. Provided Q, simple scenes will get the proper BR on the first pass. The second pass may change that, but only to improve it, IMHO.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Today, this cut-margin is at 0.1% (100.1%). You could simply set a high cut-margin (above sizing-pass-upper-limit), to get what you were expecting, but I would set to something like 0.5%, and maybe the sizing-pass-upper-limit to 1.0% (when not frame-selecting).

OK, I'll take a look at it. If I do it, I won't add GUI for it now - only ini file setting. @Tylo, this is working like a charm. I'm setting both of these limits to the same value and with the new prediction it has saved me lots of second passes.

If you could only equalize the images that would be perfect.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
@r6d2: As jonny also did find, I still believe that estimation accuracy increases with higher sample %.I did some tests, this is what I found:
Sample BR Error
1% 1.666 0,1%
2% 1.707 2,5%
4% 1.702 2,3%
8% 1.696 1,9%
100% 1.665 0,0%
Surprisingly, the 1% sample was by far the best estimate. :(

[tylo]

Hmm. The 8% result especially surprises me. If the test is correct, you have convinced me. :o

Btw: I was fed up with my old standalone, so I ordered a new: Asono DVDX70 (http://asono.com/index.php?language=en).
It is supposed to be very stable and have about the best DivX support, with very smooth searching (unusual). MP3 multiple search speeds too (most dont have search). They claim it is fast and responsive in every way, e.g. startup CDs like a regular CD player. I'll report more when I get it.

/Maybe I should look into 1-pass MPEG4 encoding now... :p

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Hmm. The 8% result especially surprises me. If the test is correct, you have convinced me. :o I'll do some more.
Maybe I should look into 1-pass MPEG4 encoding now... :p Both DivX and XviD have a "quality" based mode based on a percentage of quality. It's very useful. Something like 2/3% produces a reasonable quantization. I suggested len0x to use the D2Sroba method to determine the number of CDs needed in AutoGK, then do the actual 2 pass encoding. I don't think he has looked into it though.

Definitely a 1 pass plugin for AutoGK would be of great use for multipassers. Personally, I'd rather use 2/3% always and fit several movies on the same DVD if I had a DVD burner and a MPEG-4 player.

BTW, just wondering, does your nick have to do with the Tylo brand of sauna equipment?

/Add:
However, since I'm a poor man, I'll stick to this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=445139#post445139) for the time being. ;)

[tylo]

Yeah, my current player can't even handle out-of-spec SVCD's (I'v tried), so that wasn't an option. I will still mainly do SVCD's (have piles of empty CDRs), and try your suggested method with the new player :) MPEG4 must wait. Btw, the player was inexpensive, for my country's standard (but it's a little costly to replace it every second year).
BTW, just wondering, does your nick have to do with the Tylo brand of sauna equipment?hehe - no, not really.

/Add. I'll try to be more on topic. This thread is way to long already. Maybe it should be ended soon?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Yeah, my current player can't even handle out-of-spec SVCD's (I'v tried), so that wasn't an option.Did you try XVCDs? If it is a VCD 2.0 compliant player you might get lucky.

Also, if you have a DVD burner, you could try my method with Q=30, no image build. Then collect several MPEG-2s, author a DVD with a nice menu, and put up to 3 or 4 regular sized movies on one DVD-R. ;)

Your new player may be cheap indeed, but I can get a MPEG-2 player in my country for US$60 plus tax. If my method works for you, you could save the US$160 and buy close to 160 DVD-R with them. ;)

[r6d2]

@Tylo, I'm stuck with this.

Suppose I already ripped the VOBs, how can I batch several movies with D2Sroba? I tried ChickenMan's method for AVIs using pure DVD2SVCD, but I can't get it to work with D2Sroba.

Do you have any ideas? Thanks a lot in advance.

[r6d2]

I sent you my proposal for the KISS thing on Feb. 8. :cool:

[tylo]

Thanks, r6d2. I've looked at the KISS suggestion. The missing part is maybe how exactly to switch to KISS automatically. Is it by selecting a different avisynth script?

As you know, first in D2S 1.2.2, batch will work properly anyway (AVISYNTH.INI). But, in general, for each movie, you must start the convertion, and then break it when the project .d2s file is created. Then you must setup batch lines in the .bat file, like the ones D2SRoBa creates when selecting "Batch prepare".

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Is it by selecting a different avisynth script?Yes. I can make a KISS=0/1 parameter for FACAR, but I think this might better be done in a more general way.

I'll get back to you on this part.
and then break it when the project .d2s file is created. Then you must setup batch lines in the .bat file, like the ones D2SRoBa creates when selecting "Batch prepare". This is what I'm trying to do. Well, maybe something is bad in my setup or something. D2Sroba keeps waiting forever for CCE.

[r6d2]

CCE never got the "Encode" enter, and D2Sroba kept expecting it forever. When I came back and pressed Enter myself, this is what happened:

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.2.0, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.91.0
- 2004-02-19 03:53:32
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 35 / 40
- Adjust Q : 0.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 3.0%, or > 0.4% from target sz, or Q > 35)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.4% oversized
- Audio after video : Yes (6% of video, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 5400, max avg offset: 120 kbps)
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : No
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Setting low process priority
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : (148870 frames, 0 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : kbps, 0 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 750, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 2985
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=-9.22337203685478e+018 (-9.22337203685478e+018) audio1_br=128 video_sz=-9.22337203685478e+018 fill=100% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=-9.22337203685478e+018 (-9.22337203685478e+018) audio1_br=128 video_sz=-9.22337203685478e+018 fill=100% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=-9.22337203685478e+018 (-9.22337203685478e+018) audio1_br=128 video_sz=-9.22337203685478e+018 fill=100% cbr=0
- 4 CD: video_br=-9.22337203685478e+018 (-9.22337203685478e+018) audio1_br=128 video_sz=-9.22337203685478e+018 fill=100% cbr=0
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=5272 for auto sample (adjusted for 4 CDs)

[DDogg]

- Oversized: Cutting last CD image off by 0.606079640554881% [edited out inappropriate comments about a robot's antecedents] Is there any way to turn off this? Why would a person want this, especially on a DVD?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Is there any way to turn off this?Try setting cut_per_over to 0.0 on the INI file.

[DDogg]

Thanks :)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
The missing part is maybe how exactly to switch to KISS automatically. Is it by selecting a different avisynth script?I've give this some thought and I think the simplest way is to generate the alternate script by uncommenting the call to preresize of FACAR, where the user can put its favourite denoiser filters.

If the user is not using FACAR on this encode, then you insert the call before the resizer.

What do you think?

[r6d2]

@Tylo,

CCE supports the usage of 2 alternate MPV files when doing multiple passes. Perhaps it would be interesting if you do the second pass on another MPV file. Thus, if the encode is aborted during the second pass you could resume saving the first pass...

What do you think?

[tylo]

It has been a busy week for me. I've give this some thought and I think the simplest way is to generate the alternate script by uncommenting the call to preresize of FACAR, where the user can put its favourite denoiser filters.

Yes, well I haven't given this much though. I think in some way we must support two altenative include scripts. When KISS kicks in, we simply exchange the first with the second (with filters).

If the user is not using FACAR on this encode, then you insert the call before the resizer.

It isn't easy to spot where the resizer is (many can be used), so I have to think about that some more.

CCE supports the usage of 2 alternate MPV files when doing multiple passes. Perhaps it would be interesting if you do the second pass on another MPV file. Thus, if the encode is aborted during the second pass you could resume saving the first pass... I don't think I follow here. :confused: Do you mean creating alternative mpv's from one vaf?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
It isn't easy to spot where the resizer is (many can be used), so I have to think about that some more.Oh, I thought it was simple... Just look for the line that has the words "Resize" of "FACAR" on it. Wouldn't this do? Oh, I think I see what you mean. You mean within the AVISYNTH.ini, right?
I don't think I follow here. :confused: Do you mean creating alternative mpv's from one vaf? Yes, when in VBR mode in the CCE setup to can put two MPV filenames. The first one is used on first pass, the second on the next, etc.

[DDogg]

Tylo, I attempted to use D2SRoba in batch mode along with D2D (B16). The results were a bit strange. I hope you might be able to take a look at it soon. D2x was running in D2D mode. I did check the batch prepare checkbox in D2SRoBa as well as chose the batch prepare mode in the D2x conversion tab. Some of the information in the log seems to show parameters from D2S mode? Also, the OPV prediction was never started. It just started the encode as CBR. Oh, just for the record, in non batch mode everything worked well.


The batchfile created seems ok to me:

@ECHO OFF
@REM DVD2SVCD Batch Control
Start "2004-02-26 20:38" /WAIT "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCDBeta\Tylo\D2SRoBa.exe" -batch Start /WAIT C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SV~1\DVD2SVCD.exe -d2s:"G:\Sopranos\e5\dvd2svcd project file.d2s" -run -exit

Start "2004-02-26 20:42" /WAIT "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCDBeta\Tylo\D2SRoBa.exe" -batch Start /WAIT C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SV~1\DVD2SVCD.exe -d2s:"G:\Sopranos\e6\dvd2svcd project file.d2s" -run -exit

Start "2004-02-26 20:47" /WAIT "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCDBeta\Tylo\D2SRoBa.exe" -batch Start /WAIT C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SV~1\DVD2SVCD.exe -d2s:"G:\Sopranos\e7\dvd2svcd project file.d2s" -run -exit

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.2.0, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.91.0
- 2004-02-26 20:48:35
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 1050
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Adjust Q : 0.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 2.0%, or > 0.3% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.0% oversized
- Audio after video : Yes (9% of video, min 160 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Setting low process priority
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 00:54:33 (78482 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2456 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 792
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2392 (2392) audio1_br=224 video_sz=978733650 fill=100% cbr=1
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 2392 (max 2530) kbps, size=978733650 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-02-26 20:56:23
- Start movie CBR encoding (2392 kbps)
- CBR pass result: CCE 2.50 speed: 2.23
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-02-26 21:20:57
- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCDbeta\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe ERROR
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-02-26 21:20:57
- Recover DVD2SVCD

[r6d2]

You checked Delete Previous... Was this a restart?

[DDogg]

I don't think that would make any difference as each encode is in a separate directory with no previous d2sboba files. Am I missing something?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Am I missing something? I don't think so. Just checking. I have not been able to have batch mode to work with a restart with similar symptoms. But if it is not a restart, that setting should be neutral.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
- Audio after video : Yes (9% of video, min 160 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
[...]
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2392 (2392) audio1_br=224 video_sz=978733650 fill=100% cbr=12754 - 300 - 224 = 2230 < 2392, that's why it switched to CBR. If you want OPV+VBR, use 120 instead as offset (more info in Part II, Q4 of the FAQ).

[DDogg]

r6d2, hmm, I think I must have worded my post poorly.

I think it would be proper for d2sroba, when in batch mode (DVD), to act exactly as it does in normal mode (DVD). It does not do so presently when used in conjuction with the B16 test version of D2D. It may be nothing more than changes in INI files.

As to why, I would conjecture that in DVD mode there is no Audio after video or Adjust max br settings (TG!). For some reason, d2sroba, while in batch mode is using settings from svcd mode which is fouling things up and making it behave differently than it does in normal mode. Do you get my meaning? I may be wording it a little fuzzy as I have not done much encoding lately.

To clarify a dab more, this particular encode, when done in normal d2sroba DVD mode solves for Q and uses a Q of 25 for the encode (0-9000). In batch mode it behaves differently and just goes to CBR. The fact that the behavior is different is the anomoly.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
I think it would be proper for d2sroba, when in batch mode (DVD), to act exactly as it does in normal mode (DVD). The fact that the behavior is different is the anomoly. Oh, now I get it. Of course. Sorry, I'm poor man and I don't do DVDs. :) (And if I wasn't, I'd put 3 SVCD movies per DVD+-R instead, similar to your Soprano episodes.) :)

But it should behave the same, even though I think that the max br and audio thing are still useful in a DVD. If you can clarify me why not, I'd put that into the FAQ.

[maSp]

r6d2,

please forgive my ignorance, but can you comment on that KISS thing? I didn't find anything about it. Thanks.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by maSp
please forgive my ignorance, but can you comment on that KISS thing?Oh, it is just a nickname for two AviSynth filters that have become popular for significantly reducing bitrate with unnoticeable visual impact though at the cost of increasing encoding time.

The story started when on some threads a group of 1 CD rip fans were arguing and posting about what was the best possible filter combination for saving bitrate, trying several cumbersome combinations for blur, sharp, matrices, temporal and spatial filters, and an infinite number of combinations for saving a bunch of more bytes.

In this context, the combination of UnDot() and Deen() was awarded the name of KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid.) :D

In D2Sroba, the idea is that if after the first sample with Auto Q, D2Sroba determines that by applying KISS the encode will use up one less media, it will automatically switch it on, thus likely making it fit "only when needed" and without the time impact it would require to use it "always".

[maSp]

r6d2,

thanks for clearing this up. I've already tried Undot, Deen and several other AviSynth filters. (Remember the noise prob I've mentioned?)

As for DVD convertion it came out to be the best not to use any additional filters - at least for me. After thousands :D of test samples I ended up with Bicubic, IQP 16, Bias 20. It still beats DVDShrink at 90% compression (reauthor, movie only). :cool:

Cheers.

[Ashendon]

rob starts and then dvd2svcd starts and when i select the correct ifo, no option to convert is given, just to rip and convert or do the batch

[maSp]

Uncheck 'Activate DVD ripping' under the DVD Rip tab.

[Ashendon]

DOH!!!!!

[DDogg]

(Fuzzy Thinking Mode on). Just throwing out additional discussion.

When I originally read the posts about adding a conditional additional filter based upon evaluating predicted Q against predicted size I thought it was needless feature creep. I tend to try to stay on the conservative size as too many very vertical features may spoil the beautiful simplicity of the latest D2SRoBa.

However, that being said, now after thinking on it some more I can see how it *might* be a powerful addition *if* done in such a way as to work with SVCD and DVD modes without causing a major new can of worms.

Thinking out loud -

In effect it would automate the process that many of us use where the encode is canceled if it becomes obvious we are not going to reach our requested target size at an acceptable Q level. An additional filter, like Deen(), is added into the PreResize.avs, and perhaps PostResize.avs of Facar and the encode is restarted.

Since the user should be able to specify the additional filter pack, I wonder if D2SRoBa could just add or uncomment a line in the Facar script directly under PreResize.avs like "Conditional.avs" when the conditional requirements were met?

Next is Real fuzzy -

If the resulting prediction runs still showed target size and target Q unobtainable, the process then might be interrupted and present the user with some choices. IMO, to do this properly, a new check-box would be required as an optional choice in the both the SVCD and DVD modes.

If it were checked in SVCD mode, if might increment disks as r6d2 alluded to. In DVD mode, it might just be a pass/fail mode or optionally increment space. Although that sounds a little scary, I do like the idea of D2SRoBa having a method [in DVD mode] that basically tells me that it will take X space to reach the desired user specified X Q. This may be way over the top, as it nearly sounds like a whole new method being added.

Anyway, I throw these thoughts out for discussion. Ultimately, tylo may not be interested. If that is his decision then I still see it as a positive thing because that would then be a signal to stop discussing additional features/feature creep and get on with doing a more robust testing of the final and documentation.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
In effect it would automate the process that many of us use where the encode is canceled if it becomes obvious we are not going to reach our requested target size at an acceptable Q level.I agree this may be common practice, but only to those who don't believe in Auto mode, (which I know you don't :)).

[tylo]

Hi, DDogg. For some reason, d2sroba, while in batch mode is using settings from svcd mode which is fouling things up and making it behave differently than it does in normal mode. Do you get my meaning? I may be wording it a little fuzzy as I have not done much encoding lately.This has been sorted out. Anyway D2S121 does not save the AVISYNTH.INI file for each batch preparation, so you are in trouble if that has been changed between batches. D2S122B16 has fixed that.

As for the fuzzy thinking, I am willing to explore some more on this, but a first version will only do a simple logic (outlined by r6d2).Since the user should be able to specify the additional filter pack, I wonder if D2SRoBa could just add or uncomment a line in the Facar script directly under PreResize.avs like "Conditional.avs" when the conditional requirements were met?Yes. Even simpler for me would be to require Import("RoBaConditional.avs") in the avs script.
Now, D2SRoBa could replace the generated and empty RoBaConditional.avs file with some other specified file, when needed.

I'll release a new version soon. AutoIt3 has evolved a lot. Because it is still beta, code-breaking changes has occured a few times, so I'll also have to update D2SRoBa to keep in sync with the latest AutoIt3 changes.

[DDogg]

:confused: R6D2, Since Auto mode adds space to achieve a Q target, your comment totally confuses me. Perhaps I missed something in your last few posts on the KISS subject. I thought we were talking about automatically adding additional filters to attempt a specified size target when the standard script would not allow this to be achieved.

Tylo, thanks for getting back to me. I figured you were fairly busy as I had sent you some PMs on the 21st :)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
:confused: R6D2, Since Auto mode adds space to achieve a Q target, your comment totally confuses me. Perhaps I missed something in your last few posts on the KISS subject.I think you missed it because the "simple logic" was not posted, but a PM I sent to Tylo. :) I transcript it here for clarity and to see if you buy it. ;)

(everyone is invited to improve this).
OK, this is it. Not too complicated:

1. Encode sample with AutoQ, unfiltered.
2. Get n, the number of media required.
3. If |BR(n-1) - BR(AutoQ)| < KISS_threshold,
encode sample with AutoQ, filtered with KISS
Get n', the number of media required with KISS
If n' < n,
let n=n'
continue Q search with KISS
else
continue as normal

The effect of KISS depends on the source, but KISS_threshold
should be about 10% (according to my tests).Since I know you don't like when I get too babylonian, let's see it with an example. You set AutoQ to 35. D2Sroba finds that it means BR=2000, or 3 CDs. But for how much?

On a normal process on a case like this, D2Sroba could get a Q of, for instance, 20, which is good, but perhaps a value like 37 would have made the movie fit in 2 CDs. That's when KISS comes into action. So D2Sroba tries again with Q=35, but filtered, and finds that with BR=1300 Q is 34!

You are right, Auto mode adds space, but sometimes it may end up adding too much, particularly when near the limit. Going from 2 to 3 CDs is 50% more space, going from 1 to 2 CDs is 100% more space, and perhaps only 10% is needed, which KISS can take care of.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Even simpler for me would be to require Import("RoBaConditional.avs") in the avs script. Now, D2SRoBa could replace the generated and empty RoBaConditional.avs file with some other specified file, when needed.Once again you find a clean and elegant way to keep the worms inside the can, and still provide the functionality. :goodpost:

[DDogg]

r6d2, thanks, posting the logic helped me understand much better.

Still, I don't see why a very simple form could not be implemented for the number of disks mode also.

The conditional filter would simply kick in, and run to completion, if the first prediction run found it could not meet the size and Q target. Sure, if it kicked in, the encode with the conditional filter might not make the target size and Q either, but the Q would still be the best you could obtain for that specified size.

r6d2, one thing I think important - Many of your ideas are based around SVCD (IMO), but I think it is going to be more and more important that any new ideas like this would also work in DVD mode, which is size based.

As you alluded to above, the economies of DVD make great sense when multiple movies or episodes are put on one DVD. Batch mode AND Size control becomes very important when trying to shoehorn them all on to 1 DVD. For these reasons I do hope tylo can implement the conditional filter logic into size mode for both SVCD and DVD.

[Crackhead]

Just to clarify your thoughts DDogg:
Let's take an easy example!
For instance, someone likes to put his DVDs on 2 SVCDs. So he selects 'Num CDs = 2' in D2SRoba, and he also selects another limit which sets the 'Max Q' he wants to obtain (here e.g. 30)[could be 'Max Q' in Num CDs-Mode, so not another parameter must be introduced, but can also be a new defined limit].
Then he starts the encoding process, and D2SRoba does its first prediction run with the new 'Max Q' threshold (like in Auto-Mode). With this first prediction test, it could be calculated if with 'Max Q' = 30, the target Num Cds = 2 could be obtained or if these 2 discs have not enough space to get the DVD on them (within the 0 -'Max Q' = 30 range).

Here we got two cases:

1. The final resulting Q for 2 CDs is lower than 'Max Q', so the prediction just goes on as usual.

2. The final resulting Q would be higher than 'Max Q'.
=> The 'Conditional.avs' is introduced. Another prediction run with 'Max Q' is applied. Again calculations of final size with this Q are made.

Again two cases:

2.1. Now the 'Max Q' is high enough and the final Q is lower than the limit. Go on as usual.

2.2. Still 'Max Q' is too low.
=> D2SRoba has two choices now:

a) Just ignoring the 'Max Q' threshold now and going on as usual.

b) Offering the user possible solutions to this problem:

- Going on just like a)

- For (S)VCD-Mode increasing the number of CDs; for DVD-Mode this option may be useless, but who knows!;)

- Just stopping the process!

- This may go a little bit too far, but it just crossed my mind!
Presenting the user its avs-script including 'Conditional.avs' and let him apply even more filters if he wants to. And then run as usual without the 'Max Q'-threshold (would go way too far to apply this procedure again!)

I hope I got that right and that everyone who didn't get DDoggs thoughts now has a clear sight on the facts. r6d2's logic can be applied as well!
Btw I like this 'Conditional.avs' thing, hope it will be implemented soon, don't care in which way!

Greetz, Crackhead

[DDogg]

Crackhead, you do a good job as a mind reader :) Thanks for taking the time to write down the logic. I'll bet r6d2 and tylo are having a good snicker at the moment given my previous opinions about additional features :)

Your point 2.2a was all I thought tylo would even consider (if even that). Also, I figured any requester that interrupted the process for user input would foul up batch mode. As said, I think the batch mode is going to become *much* more important as folks switch to DVDs.

Since the user is going to allocate *all* of the DVD distributed to the multiple encodes of the batch, whether evenly in case of episodic or probably not for different sources, size very much becomes the deciding factor over quality because the full set must conform to the *users* allocation of all space available. Just a bit over, especially if you have used frame selection to pre-cut the credits, and you are screwed with no place to fudge it. [It is very easy in DVD lab to trim the final credits when authoring to get a fit if needed]

If the conditional is activated, you would know that the Q is the best you can possible get for that given batch and size target at the chosen resolution. If you were not happy with the Q level then you know there is nothing to do but redo the batch with:

1> Lower resolution
2> Remove one encode and spread the additional size freed up over the remaining parts of the batch.

Sure, the above assumes you used the maximum filters acceptable to you which would naturally bring up the point about iterations of conditional sets, but that becomes a never ending path, doesn't it? :)

[r6d2]

Guys, I have trouble understanding the size concerns you have when target is DVD media and multiple movies per media. Perhaps you can make me understand the subject.

[FUZZY THINKING]
Let's elaborate on size concerns when target is DVD. I think there are two kinds of “DVD target size” users.

(a) Those who like to fit a single or double layer DVD on one DVD-R (that’s one movie per media).

(b) Those who prefer to fit several movies per media, probably encoding at smaller frame sizes, like SVCD standard frame of 480x480/576.

For users in group (a), D2Sroba current state of features suffices. It does not require a new feature set, IMHO, and it is as simple as a 1 SVCD CD rip.

For users in group (b), things gets complicated it seems. But I don’t see how...

What I would do, if I had a DVD burner, is to use plain DVD2SVCD, without D2Sroba, and without making images. I’d use OPV with my preferred quality (say, Q=30), and let the MPG grow as much as it needs. I’d probably cut the credits too.

From my experience, for typical 2 hour anamorphic movies this would give me sizes between 800 and 1600-MB (i.e., equivalent to the range of 1 or 2 CDs).

I’d keep a “to burn queue” of three movies or so, and I’d manually author sets of them in order to make 3 movies per media. I’d probably have media where I’d only put 2 in case I end up having really long movies in the queue. I'd probably also could fit 4 of them from time to time.

This is the known problem of fitting boxes into a truck, while trying to maximize the usage of truck space. Of course I’d probably lose some space on every media, but OTOH, I’d always, and I emphasize always, save the second pass, and I’d always have my movies the quality I expect.

I really don’t see the point of converting D2Sroba or even DVD2SVCD in a DVD authoring tool just to use up every bit of available space on a large media as a DVD.

I can see the potential advantage of size concerns on an episode set encoding. Episodes are typically the same duration, have sort of the same texture, exactly same DAR, and compress similarly. If you want to have, say, 4 episodes per media, in an orderly fashion, I buy it. But that is a very unusual case, isn’t it? And the D2Sroba/DVD2SVCD combo handles that already by selecting a custom target size. Authoring is made manually anyway.

Trilogies, OTOH, usually don’t have similar structure, particularly when they are not made by the same director. The Terminator trilogy is an interesting case of different running times, different DARs, different compressibility, etc. The Alien series is another one, or the Indiana Jones series. Perhaps the most uniform of the trilogies I’ve seen is Back to the Future.

But then again, they may make the fourth part and screw your collection. :)
[/FUZZY THINKING]

I hope you can prove my logic wrong. There must be something I’m not taking care of.

[sPeziFisH]

I've got a question regarding CBR-Encode:

D2SRoBa switches to CBR if the estimated_bitrate > (max_bitrate + max_avg_bitrate)/2.
If 'Adjust max video bitrates' is enabled, max_bitrate becomes (total-audio) and max_avg_bitrate becomes (max_bitrate-max_avg_offset).
So at least the criteria for a CBR is not max allowed minus this offset like it is written in r6d2's FAQ and which seems more reasonable to me ATM, but sth. which is half of the offset higher.
Not that it's that important to me - I still go with OVP+VBR - but I updated the guide (that was still neccessary, not only cause of Frankster-syndrome :) ) and still got puzzled at this point.

By the way I try to say... great work Tylo and r6d2, won't miss you!

[r6d2]

@sPeziFisH,

The FAQ states "If the video BR for your movie is greater than the maximum allowed less this offset, the plugin will switch to CBR". This in practice means:

Max_by_spec - Audio - Offset = CBR_Threshold.

If BR is > CBR_Threshold, it switches to CBR. Or at least this is the theory behind that Offset parameter. Doesn't it work that way to you? I'd like to make this more explicit in the FAQ, since it is somewaht confusing.

[sPeziFisH]

No no, you did a great job, the FAQ is still clear enough.
But if you look into the code, .au3, you'll see that the variable for CBR-Encoding is set to 1 if your actual bitrate is > (max + max.avg)/2.
If you're using 'Adjust ...' the bitrate for this criteria is somewhat above max minus offset: CBR_threshold = max_by_spec - audio - (0.5*offset).
k, the code is a bit more complex so I guess it's easy to miss sth. but so far my look at the code (not a short look :( ) still tries to tell me that.
Maybe it's not that important, D2SRoBa does its job excellent, but it would be nice to know, what Tylo did here.

[DDogg]

I hope you can prove my logic wrong. There must be something I’m not taking care of.

r6d2, I don't see what the big deal is so I'll just answer with more of the same as a form of left and right brains attempting to brainstorm together. :D

I was saying - *if and only if*, tylo decided to do what you requested for SVCD auto mode then a simpler form of the logic could be also included in size mode. The basic logic for it would already be in place for auto mode, right?

This would be very convenient for some of us, who might see things differently that others, to have a conditional filter automatically kick in when needed to attempt to achieve the specified Q/size combo in both SVCD and DVD size modes.

Stating the obvious again, for a person not interesting in SVCD auto mode, adding this functionality to size based modes allows D2SRoBa to try the speediest method (no compression reduction filters)first, and then shift to the user designated filter pack if needed, all automatically and without user intervention for both SVCD and DVD size based encodes.

This seems a very simple and useful thing, yes? It is not specific to DVD or SVCD modes, but certainly is specific to all of the size modes.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Stating the obvious again, for a person not interesting in SVCD auto mode, adding this functionality to size based modes allows D2SRoBa to try the speediest method (no compression reduction filters)first, and then shift to the user designated filter pack if needed.I don't see any problem with this. I don't see much benefit either. :)

If you are the kind of person which does size-based rips, say with 2 CDs, or if for some reason you want to specify how many media by using a different criteria than Q alone (it would be interesting to know which criteria that might be), then you are probably the kind of guy which tries several frame sizes, filters and matrices to make the stuff fit in 2 CDs, "with at least the quality you expect", and restart often.

This kind of guy already knows, by trial and error, how the movie compresses and if KISS is needed.

Would the "automatic conditional filter pack" be useful too in this context?

To me, that's a strange way of encoding with a quality based mode, but I can see why users like to have fun with several tries instead of giving each movie the size it needs. :)

Anyway, don't worry, since if Tylo ultimately implements the KISS stuff, I think it is likely he uses it for both size and auto modes.

(BTW, I don't know if all this really has to do with what I posted above regarding DVD media. I hoped someone could tell me what is wrong in my reasoning.)

[DDogg]

I really don’t see the point of converting D2Sroba or even DVD2SVCD in a DVD authoring tool just to use up every bit of available space on a large media as a DVD. Maybe this statement is where we are speaking past each other. Nobody that I know of has suggested this. When setting up a batch that will be authored onto one DVD with DVDLab, I am only concerned with the generation of the elementary streams and generally turn off image creation. I guess I just assumed you would read my mind.

Typically, because I have done this stuff a long time, I can do a quick scan of the type of source and length and can generally guesstimate how much space to allocate to the encodes so that the total amount of all encodes is near the full DVD size and all of them still be in a Q range I can accept (normally under 30 and without filters). When I don't get it right, having the conditional filter kick in on those encodes where I guessed wrong would become a *real* time saver because the compression filters would nearly always drop Q down to under my acceptable limit.

Of course this brings up the point that when images are turned off there is not much difference between DVD mode and SVCD mode assuming "adjust max video bitrate" is turned off in D2SRoBa and a DVD resolution is chosen in Facar or D2S. Still, I like to keep the modes separate as I still do SVCDs all the time.

Your point about the burn queue just doesn't work for me, but I am sure makes sense for a lot of folks. I would just prefer to set up a batch and then author, burn, test, and delete all the source files right when the batch is finished. If I don't do it then, I forget and so my HDs get filled up with all kinds of multiple source and temp directories (which makes me nuts!).

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Maybe this statement is where we are speaking past each other. Nobody that I know of has suggested this.Oh, I get it now. I thought you were concerned about using up every bit of space on the DVD media, and fitting several movies. You cannot do that easily today (if your target is quality) without advanced multiple movie authoring in DVD2SVCD. Guess manually is the way to go for that.
If I don't do it then, I forget and so my HDs get filled up with all kinds of multiple source and temp directories (which makes me nuts!). Oh, this happens to all of us I think. :D:D:D Particularly when you're short on media supplies. :) But my burning queue would only have the MPGs. All the rest would be wiped already.

[Vespers]

I have followed and read this thread for quite a bit and its been informative reading.

If you are the kind of person which does size-based rips, say with 2 CDs, or if for some reason you want to specify how many media by using a different criteria than Q alone (it would be interesting to know which criteria that might be), then you are probably the kind of guy which tries several frame sizes, filters and matrices to make the stuff fit in 2 CDs, "with at least the quality you expect", and restart often.

I have a vacation home in another city and I make backups of all my DVD's to use at my vacation home. I guess I would fit into the above catogory of just doing size based rips. I do 95% 2 cd conversions with D2sroba and DVD2SVCD. If a movie is quite long, ie, Saving Private Ryan I might do 3 disks but usually not.(Btw Saving private ryan came out quite nicely on 2 cd's). D2SROBA is a godsend as its cut my conversion time to around 2 hours(and taken the guesswork out of it.)

I used to base my min vbr rate on the movie length, shorter movie, hight min vbr etc.....I got pretty good at estimating what rate I would need.

The Kiss idea is intruiging I hope all the efforts in that area bear out...............

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Vespers
Btw Saving private ryan came out quite nicely on 2 cd'sJust curious. Which was the Q and frame size you ended up using?

[manolito]

Conditional filtering with KISS - Time for a reality check

As r6d2 stated correctly, applying KISS reduces Q by about 10%. If we are talking about a target Q of 30 this means the following: If D2SRoBa finds that for a certain number of CDs Q would be 33, it would switch to KISS filtering and get a Q of 30 instead of increasing the number of CDs.

Does anyone really believe that an encode with KISS and a Q of 30 looks better than an encode of the same movie without filters and a Q of 33? I certainly don't. (It might be a little different if we compare encodes with a Q of 50 vs. 45.)

So if there is an agreement that a Q of 33 without filters is acceptable (rather than use one more CD), why don't we just use D2SRoBa's "?" mode?

IMHO the benefit of a conditional filter in D2SRoBa would not offset the inevitable increase in complexity of the software.

Cheers
manolito

[r6d2]

Originally posted by manolito
Does anyone really believe that an encode with KISS and a Q of 30 looks better than an encode of the same movie without filters and a Q of 33?For one, I cannot tell a visual difference between the two. (Well, I cannot tell different resizers even if side by side).

But also I don't think the complexity of this feature is something to fear, and your suggested use of ? is interesting, but means twice the samples as a regular encode, plus a restart if KISS is found to be needed. Not really good for batch or for general purpose IMHO.

The ConditionalRoBa for KISS requires only 1 more sample, and is done only if needed.

[DDogg]

I just did a test using BR 0-9000 bicubic 704x480 (facar #6) allocated to 2175 megs of diskspace. The results with and without Deen() were much more than 10%:

Without - Q = 19
With - Q = 14

Same as above except using 1600 meg allocation

Without - Q = 30
With - Q = 24

Same as above except using 1200 meg allocation

Without - Q = 50
With - Q = 43

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
The results with and without Deen() were much more than 10%Hummm... Interesting. I've used Deen() in the past to try to tell how much "noise" a movie has, but never got that much of a difference as the 26% in this case.

@DDogg, does this lead you to any conclusions?

[DDogg]

Maybe the higher resolution and bicubic? Maybe try your setup with your normal settings, but with facar 6/2 and see if it changes? Note also how fast the difference comes down as the Q goes up (26%,20%,14%).

[r6d2]

I was thinking that since compressibility seems to depend on the source and the Q, if the KISS thing is enabled, the KISS test sample should be done no matter what, instead of using a standard threshold. For speed, it could be done with a smaller sample, it would be useful anyway to determine the impact of KISS on this particular source.

[sPeziFisH]

As you're talking about Filters and Q-Value (maybe sth. I could have posted a bit earlier):

Life of Brian (still 'noisy' material)

without Undot and Deen: Q = 35, speed: 1.51
with Undot and Deen: Q = 21, speed: 0.31 :)

[maSp]

The question is can you see any differences in those two encodes and is it worth the speed loss? Size matters of course, at least for CD images. Btw, is KISS ment to be used in preresize AND postresize?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by maSp
Btw, is KISS ment to be used in preresize AND postresize?This one seems to be a matter of taste. I use it as preresize, but some use post and some both! (which I think is too much).

The effect on size of pre and post is nearly identical, but I read somewhere from a trusted authority (I believe it was sh0dan, but I may be mistaken), that recommended filter order was: spatial, temporal, resize. Since Deen() is both spatial and temporal, I use it before resize. But I haven't done any research on the matter really.

[DDogg]

But I haven't done any research on the matter really. I did a small amount some time ago and a little today. I noticed the Q stayed the same on the last test encode mentioned above whether in pre or post. The speed was much better in post, of course.

So, I think someone with a slower machine, where Deen really kills their speed like the example sPeziFisH showed, should at least try it after resize and then make a judgment. If tylo does the conditional, perhaps a boolean entry in the ini could specify where the user preferred it.

Personally I normally always have undot() in both pre and postresize. I normally add deen(), when needed, in Preresize from habit, although as said I have used it a lot in postresize with no visual complaints. Keep in mind I'm not real scientific or overly particular so long as it looks ok to me on my battered 32" JVC that was bought in '91. As always, the user should be the judge.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Personally I normally always have undot() in both pre and postresize.len0x uses UnDot() always in AutoGK just because it may eliminate small noise and it has almost no impact on speed.

The tip of putting Deen() in post is interesting for speed's sake. It would be interesting if more users comments and experiencies are posted.

[manolito]

Proposal for a modification of the D2SRoBa method

Problem:
Even with all the latest tweaks it seems to be impossible to get a completely accurate Q prediction. Running a second VBR sizing pass takes care of it, but this effectively doubles the encoding time.

Possible Solution:
Use a transcoder for the sizing pass. If it works for DVDs, why shouldn't it work for SVCDs too? MPEG2 is MPEG2 after all.

Since I do not have any real world experience with transcoders (I do not own a DVD burner), I downloaded the current version of Rejig and fed it with a couple of MPV files that originated from a D2S OPV pass. I tried a compression of 90% and 80%, and both times the results looked very good.

So if this method could be integrated into D2SRoBa it might be able to really speed up the whole process while always filling up the CDs to the limit. It would require to specify a value for "Adjust Q" that makes sure that the OPV encode is not undersized (since the transcoder cannot increase file size). D2SRoBa would also have to make sure that the correct parameters are passed to bbmpeg for muxing - in my tests I started Recover in D2S, and I ended up with out of sync audio.

What do the experts think? Does this method make sense at all?

Cheers
manolito

[r6d2]

Originally posted by manolito
Use a transcoder for the sizing pass. If it works for DVDs, why shouldn't it work for SVCDs too? MPEG2 is MPEG2 after all.IMHO it makes a lot of sense, manolito. I've been playing with both ReJig and DVD Shrink and speed is much better than second pass.

I run into problems too with authoring software. They say the MPV streams don't have any I-frames! Maybe that's related to the audio sync problem you saw.

But definetely worth taking a look. :goodpost:

[tylo]

Theoretically this may work, but running it through a transcoder will decrease the quality by some minimum amount, even if it only reduce the size a few percent. My guts feeling is that by using a 'safe' Q adjust (maybe ending in one Q value higher than optimal), this will still produce equal or better quality.

[Stolen_nick]

Hi tylo,

I am from brazil, speak portuguese.

sorry for not findind an answer for my problem at your thread, but seems to be only in my computer the problem appears:

If I set D2R to use AUDIO AFTER VIDEO, DVD2SVCD hangs when it finds the besweetlater.bat ... I dont know why, but the batch options does not work with my windows portuguese system...

First I thought it could be a long directory name related issue (because DVD2SVCD is in c:\Arquivos de Programas\ directory), but then I reinstalled DVD2SVCD in c:\DVD2SVCD an nothing changed...

when I disable that function, then DVD2SVCD works ok... and the results are great, but I miss that function...

Do you have any other user compliants about that BAT you created?

Thanks in advance.
Fred

[tylo]

Haven't heard about that problem so far. Are you using Win9x/ME ? The .bat file itself should run on these OS's too. For the experiment, try D2S alone with the following .bat file as BeSweet.exe replacement, and see if that works.

set args=
:loop
set args=%args% %1
shift
if not '%1==' goto loop
"C:\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" %args%

[Stolen_nick]

Originally posted by tylo
Haven't heard about that problem so far. Are you using Win9x/ME ? The .bat file itself should run on these OS's too. For the experiment, try D2S alone with the following .bat file as BeSweet.exe replacement, and see if that works.

set args=
:loop
set args=%args% %1
shift
if not '%1==' goto loop
"C:\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" %args%


Yes, I use Windows Me portuguese version...

I will try that .BAT this weekend. later I will respond you.

thanks in advance.

Fred

[manolito]

Using a transcoder for the sizing pass

I did a couple of tests to find out if this method is worth further exploration, and the results were quite encouraging. I used the current ReJig 0.5e (Thanks Nic!) with the old engine which was selected by default.

The audio sync issue I had in my previous test probably had something to do with the source DVD (Music DVD with PCM audio). With normal DVDs with AC3 audio all encodes came out perfectly.

I encoded some short DVD chapters that I know very well. First I did encodes in OPV mode with a Q value of 35. Then I took the "Encoded_Video_CCE_xxx.mpv" files and recompressed them to 95%, 90% and 80% (using one-pass recompress mode). Next I started a D2S Recover at "Muxing and Cutting" to get MPEG files. I used VCDEasy to make images and burn the stuff. Every MPEG was a separate track so I could easily switch between the different encodes. I watched the encodes on a standard TV set.

posted by Tylo:Theoretically this may work, but running it through a transcoder will decrease the quality by some minimum amount, even if it only reduce the size a few percent.
Results:
I disagree. For the 95% and the 90% encodes I was completely unable to tell the difference from the original encode. The 80% file did show some subtle differences, but without a direct comparison I would probably not have noticed it.

I think this pretty amazing considering how fast ReJig works. The noticeable decrease in quality for the 80% file does not really come as a surprise. I guess a VBR sizing pass with a target size 20% smaller would also have resulted in a slightly decreased quality.


So if someone wants to see for himself, here's the procedure:

Start D2SRoBa as usual. Set Adjust Q higher than you normally would to make sure you will get a slightly oversized OPV encode (I increased Q by 3 to 5). Unselect the Sizing pass. Nothing else to observe here, even Audio after Video is OK.

In DVD2SVCD make sure that "Don't delete any files" under the "Misc" tab is checked. Do your encode. Let's assume the encode is 10% oversized. (Tylo's Log window tells you the OPV result has a size of 110%).

Close DVD2SVCD. Get out you calculator. The recompress percentage is (100 * 100) / 110 = 90.9%. Start ReJig, select File Mode and load the "Encoded_Video_CCE_xxx.mpv". Enter the recompress percentage and click Recompress. Exit ReJig. Open Explorer and go to your "Movies" folder. Delete the original "Encoded_Video_CCE_xxx.mpv" and rename the .m2v file ReJig has just created to exactly the name of the original file.

Now start DVD2SVCD (NOT D2SRoBa!!!). Go to the "Misc" tab, click "Recover" and select the D2S project file in the "Movies" directory (not the one in the "Original" directory). At this point D2S complains that the project file was created by a different version of D2S. You can just ignore this message. For the recover point you have to choose "Muxing and Cutting" (Maybe Pulldown for NTSC).


That's all. I tested this method with three PAL Movies, and I was extremely pleased with the results. I do not own any NTSC movies so I hope someone else will test this.

Cheers
manolito

[r6d2]

I buy it, manolito. Great idea. Particularly when oversize is only a few percent, I don't think the requant is noticeable.

Don't you get any GOP too long errors when trying to author a DVD?

[DDogg]

Its so great the source is now there. Sounds like you two have a great first job for d2srobaII :p

[windtrader]

The idea of doing a transcode to reduce a slightly oversized first pass encode is quite promising. I've done many, many DVD backups using transcoding and still do today for those movies that need less than 10% reduction. My testing over time has been fairly extensive and on my system I find either no or very minimal visual artifacts in a transcode requiring less than 10% reduction.

I've not used Rejig but it seems to be able to transcode on the video stream that has not been muxed first with the audio. If this is the case, then this is the fastest way to go. If the rejig method requires the audio and video to be muxed before transcoding then it won't be any faster than using any of the other transcoders like DVDShrink, DVD2One, Recode 2, etc. That would allow for more flexiblity. Also, if rejig works on the video stream, it seems adding this functionality would require mods to D2SRoba only and would not impact any DVD2DVD code.

[tylo]

Ok, manolito. You haven't got many posts, but each one has been very well though trough, so I shouldn't have rejected your suggestion so fast (I guess I saw work coming...). windtrader, thanks for your input too. If rejig is easy to interface with, it doesn't have to be that hard to implement.
Algo:
if oversized and resize on --> use rejig (opt CCE) resizing
if undersized and resize on --> use CCE resizing (as now)

I was also planning to change the GUI, so that it stays up and you can change settings (except CD size and audio) all the way uptil D2SRoBa terminate CCE. All this seems like fun stuff, so I will look hard to find time for it. :)

Ps: What priority for: rejig, GUI, the KISS conditional filtering?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
If rejig is easy to interface with, it doesn't have to be that hard to implement.AFAIK Rejig does the requant stuff using a third party tool which accepts an input parameter equal to the compression you want to achieve, so this should be very straightforward.

Have a look at the Rejig thread and docs. You may be surprised.

On the priority thing, I think you should go in the easiest to hardest feature. IMHO the Rejig thing is the easiest, but you know better. :)

[manolito]

Thanks for the replies.:)

Don't you get any GOP too long errors when trying to author a DVD?
I don't author DVDs, poor guys like me do SVCDs exclusively. So I can't say. I use a GOP length of 15, and image creation for SVCD gave no errors at all.

I've not used Rejig but it seems to be able to transcode on the video stream that has not been muxed first with the audio. If this is the case, then this is the fastest way to go.
Yes, ReJig can transcode the video stream, no need to demux first.


________________________________________________________________________________
From the ReJig Readme:
ReJig CommandLine Control
-------------------------

-i <FileName> Adds a filename(s) for a Job. i.e. "E:\rip\1.mpg + e:\rip\2.mpg"
-o <FileName> Sets the output filename for the next input file specified by -i
-close Automatically Closes the program after processing.
-quiet Will not prompt for overwriting but will overwrite automatically
-auto Automatically sets the program on a RecompressAll
-level Compression level in percentage, put before the input file (default: 70.0)
-size Size in MB for the output file (automatically assumes 2Pass)

Examples:
ReJig -i e:\rip\CCEData.txt -auto -close -quiet
ReJig -level 65 -o "e:\rip\big_small.m2v" -i "e:\rip\big.vob"
ReJig -size 50 -o "e:\rip\big_small_50mb.m2v" -i "e:\rip\big.vob"
________________________________________________________________________________


Should be fairly easy to control ReJig from AutoIt. The only thing I could not do with the command line was to make ReJig start the recompress process automatically, AutoIt would have to push the button (maybe I did not look hard enough...)

Of course my priority would be ReJig, because it would be such a time saver. But the method could sure use some more testing. Maybe using ReJig's "new" engine works better at SVCD bitrates, r6d2's GOP issue for DVD authoring should be resolved, and so on...


Cheers
manolito

[DDogg]

rejig is an alpha test bed and the GUI, commandline, and features will probably continue to change - so I don't see how using rejig itself would be very practical. However, the unlaying transcoding engine ought to be accessible directly by D2SRoBa. That would seem to be the most practical way to do it if tylo decides to investigate it (IMO).

[r6d2]

Originally posted by r6d2
AFAIK Rejig does the requant stuff using a third party tool which accepts an input parameter equal to the compression you want to achieve, so this should be very straightforward.
Found it:M2VRequantiser by Makira.
Win32 version 1.0.0002 (P6 optimized)

Usage is :
requant percentage input.m2v output.m2v
percentage is a float number.

Example:
requant 90.0 input.m2v output.m2vRequant can be downloaded from here (http://www.rejig.org/history.asp). I guess it could not be any simpler than this, or might it? :D

[windtrader]

if oversized and resize on --> use rejig (opt CCE) resizing
if undersized and resize on --> use CCE resizing (as now)

It may be better to include range limit on this. For example,
if 0 < oversize % < 10% use rejig,
10% < oversize % use CCE.

undersize option is fine as today.


I was also planning to change the GUI, so that it stays up and you can change settings (except CD size and audio) all the way uptil D2SRoBa terminate CCE.I like the flexibility but often times, more options = more problems. :p I can see that unless one knows exactly what they are doing while the process is going, that an option gets flipped accidently and the results are not what one thought originally. The reason I mention this is my personal experience with the long process times and while I am doing other things, I "trip into" the D2SRoba/DVD2DVD windows when I do not mean to. While I am busy doing other things, the updated Autoit charges ahead, takes control of what I am doing, and jumps back into D2SRoba. Then I keep typing away and just hope I did not mess up anything. Actually, this happens more during the DVD2DVD processes now since Tylo has tightened up Autoit. I still like the idea but it exposes the settings to accidental change. So, if you were to implement such a feature, then maybe a flag to allow/disallow this from happening might be a good safety feature; default set to no changes after starting the process.

Requant can be downloaded from here. I guess it could not be any simpler than this, or might it? My only comment about rejig/requant is I don't know much about the general perception of how well a transcoding engine it is. I know quite well how the mainstream transcoders perform such as DVDShrink, DVD2One, Recode2. As long as there are others who can fiddle and "tune up" requant to coax the best performance out of it while keeping it in a black box for the majority of us, it's fine with me. Tunability of requant quality is one adjustment; I have no idea of the efficiency of the engine, how fast it is relative to the others, and how it can be optimized.

One last possible option is to do the transcode with DVDShrink by basically tacking it on the end of the DVD2DVD process, sending the final DVD2DVD output through DVDShrink which performs the transcode and final sizing. This would involve having D2SRoba capture the option to use DVDShrink for the final transcode on oversize situations. DVD2DVD would need to check for this and conditionally execute DVDShrink based on the oversize status from D2SRoba. Sounds more involved but more flexible since adding other transcoder options would be quite easy once the first one is implemented. For that matter, the rejig option could be implemented in this fashion as well except the overall process takes a time hit since an extra mux and authoring process is done. But it does allow one set of logic to handle all situations which is better for the programmer. :p

Priority - do what is most defined and subject to less changes down the road first.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by windtrader
For that matter, the rejig option could be implemented in this fashion as well except the overall process takes a time hit since an extra mux and authoring process is done.This might be avoided by just calling Requant instead. Since you're familiar with more advanced tools like DVD Shrink or DVD2One, your input on how good/fast Requant is would be very useful for those of us poor men. :D

If Requant as quoted above is as easy to implement as it seems, we could all do some trial encodes to give feedback too!

[manolito]

Quality and speed of ReJig compared to other transcoders

The well respected German Computer Magazine C'T did some comprehensive transcoder tests in their 1/2004 edition. ReJig Version 0.4i-mod3 was tested. For the quality tests both PSNR and JNDmetrix-IQ (by Sarnoff) were used.


Results (for main movie only, one pass mode):

JND PSNR
_______________________________
Rejig 1.28 58.6 dB
CloneDVD 1.42 51.9 dB
DVDShrink 1.37 58.7 dB
Recode2 1.32 59.4 dB
InstantCopy 1.19 59.4 dB


For JND lower is better, for PSNR higher values mean better quality. For PSNR you have to keep in mind that visual quality does not always correspond to a better PSNR. The tests also showed that in most cases the slower modes (aka. two pass, deep analysis, quality, advanced) did not improve quality.

ReJig's speed was a little lower than for most other programs, only InstantCopy was slower.
For quality ReJig is among the best, only InstantCopy can beat it.

In the meantime ReJig 0.5e has been around for almost three months, it seems very stable to me. Most posters in the ReJig thread seem to agree that the "old" engine gives better quality, but the "new" engines are constantly updated and tweaked by Makira and dragongodz, so this is a moving target.


Cheers
manolito

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Its so great the source is now there. Sounds like you two have a great first job for d2srobaII :p This should be called D2SRoBaMa. :D:D:D

[windtrader]

@mano - thanks for the post. IC will be quite good but it takes a long time to transcode. Others are in the order of 10 minutes or so while IC takes a couple of hours. No suprise here.

DVDShrink and Recode2 use the same engine so I am not sure why they show different results.

CloneDVD - I suspect they tested using the old version. There is CloneDVD2 out that states the quality has been improved a lot. Per the elby website:

CloneDVD 2 redefines the notion of picture quality. On the one hand the revamped transcoding technology delivers far better results, on the other hand the user has more control over the size of the video data.

For the quality tests both PSNR and JNDmetrix-IQ (by Sarnoff) were used. Is this a set of tests that are available to us? With the figures you posted, it would be a great starting point as we go forward with transcoding.

[manolito]

@windtrader
The C'T Magazine with the transcoder tests came out on 12/29/2003, so the tests were probably conducted a few weeks earlier. The version numbers of the tested programs were as follows:

CloneDVD 1.3.11.2
DVDShrink 3.0 Beta 5
InstantCopy 8.0.5
Recode2 2.0.0.0
Rejig 0.4i-mod3

The different results for DVDShrink and Recode2 are probably due to the slightly newer engine of Recode2. Recode2 and InstantCopy also were the two only programs where the slower 2pass mode actually did improve quality.

For the two methods used to determine transcoding quality I'll try to translate part of the description from the test report:

"Peak Signal to Noise Ratio" (PSNR) was measured by using the software "PSNR4AVI" by Vanguard Software. The formula that is used is "PSNR = 20 log10(255/RMSE)". RMSE is the square root of the medium square difference between two frames.

JND stands for "Just Noticeable Differences". The software used to determine this value was "JNDmetrix-IQ" by Sarnoff. Frame by frame this software determines the difference between the original and the transcoded frames using a so called "Human Visual System Model".

This stuff is way over my head, so I really don't know if it would be feasible to conduct quality tests with this kind of software. At least for the PSNR the measured value can be very different from the visual perception. I remember a post from the ReJig thread where Makira (the author of the engine) wrote that the "new" engine he had just released did provide a better PSNR, but the visual quality was worse.

A thought about using Requant vs. ReJig:
Both approaches have merit. Requant would be very easy to implement, but it seems it is not developped any further, and so we would be stuck with the "old" engine.
Using ReJig would be just a tiny bit more complicated to implement, but ReJig is being improved all the time, and Nic promised in a recent post that we can be sure he will come up with the "ultimate" engine very soon. I also do not believe that the command line interface of ReJig will change dramatically in the next versions.
BTW, my previous post said that I could not get ReJig to start the process automatically through the command line. That was wrong, "Rejig.exe -level xx.y -i input.mpv -auto -close -quiet" will do the job without any prompting or user interaction.

Cheers
manolito

[manolito]

@Tylo

Seems I discovered a small bug in D2SRoBa 3.20. I specified "Audio after Video, Use Min Bitrate, Min Bitrate=192". In DVD2SVCD the bitrate was still set to 128, but D2SRoBa is supposed to override this, right? Here's the log:


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.2.0, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.91.0
- 2004-03-11 00:08:01
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 820
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Adjust Q : 3.5
- Sizing pass : No
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.5% oversized
- Audio after video : Yes (192 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Batch prepare : No
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Setting low process priority
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:28:50 (133259 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (128 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1134 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 750, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 2670
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1070 (1070) audio1_br=192 video_sz=712935650 fill=100% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 1070 (max 2562) kbps, size=712935650 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1076 (Q=32, err=0.6%, size=717301954, sample sz=14371984)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1060 (Q=33, err=-0.9%, size=706504880, sample sz=14155652)
- Determined Q : 29 = round(32 - 3.5 + (0.6)/1.5)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-11 00:36:02
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 29)
- OPV pass result: 101.5% on target (723960420 / 712935650) CCE 2.50 speed: 0.47
- Oversized: Cutting last CD image off by 1.54639061744213%
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-11 03:43:43
- Executing: E:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "E:\Movies\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "E:\Movies\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "E:\Movies\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround2 -f on -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 128 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-11 04:07:05
- Recover DVD2SVCD


BeSweet was called with a bitrate of 128, and so the encode was not oversized at all, and no cutting occurred. Funny, I never noticed this before in 3.2.0. I think a much earlier version of D2SRoBa had this error, but it was fixed in the next version. Anyway, not a big deal...

Cheers
manolito

[tylo]

Thanks, manolito - it's fixed.

Got v3.2.2 beta4 for you to try (not released on my home page):
http://home.tiscali.no/tylohome/files/D2SRoBa.exe

It's only the .exe file, so put it in the Tylo directory.

- Added 'Rip only' and 'Auto Shutdown' on Log dialog.
- Fixed audio bug (manolito)
- Fixed: Now it works when changing CD size before Recover.
- Batching should work also when swithcing between DVD and SVCD output.
- Using AutoIt v3.0.100 (semi release)

/Add: Latest AutoIt behaves different/faster than earlier, so I had to put in new 'sleeps' in the code. @DDogg: I hope I've resolved the problems with the previous betas, but all should report anomalities (I know you will :D )

[manolito]

Thanks Tylo!
That's what I call excellent customer service...

[manolito]

ReJig or Requant?

I just took the time to browse through all of the roughly 60 pages of the two ReJig threads, very interesting stuff... It seems there is some confusion right now about the many different engine versions. Basically there is an "old" engine and a "new" engine, but both have been tweaked a lot, mainly by dragongodz. The "old" engine is still considered better, but the "old" engine in ReJig 0.5e is a modded version of the "old" engine in Requant.

After reading through all this stuff, I would probably prefer ReJig over Requant, but there is an easy way to implement both into D2SRoBa. AutoIt could call the transcoder from a small batch file similar to Besweetlater.bat. The batch file would have to be called with three parameters (In_File, Out_File and Compression_Level), and it has to contain the path to the transcoder executable.

With this approach we would get the best of both worlds, and even if the command line interface of ReJig should change in a future version, all we would have to do would be editing one line in a batch file.

Cheers
manolito

[windtrader]

With this approach we would get the best of both worlds, and even if the command line interface of ReJig should change in a future version, all we would have to do would be editing one line in a batch file.And even better than best of both worlds is to include at least some support for other transcoders such as DVDShrink, DVD2One, CloneDVD,etc. I'm doing some research on these now to see which have clean, full command line batch interfaces or which might need the Auto-It treatment.

[manolito]

@windtrader
AFAIK only ReJig / Requant supports transcoding of the raw video stream (files with the extension mpv or m2v). At least for DVDShrink I know that it cannot open these files. That means that a transcoder like DVDShrink would require that D2S first muxes the video stream, then DVDShrink has to demux, transcode and then mux the file again. Not too elegant IMHO

Cheers
manolito

[windtrader]

Yes, the transcoder option would need to be added as a step at the end of the normal DVD2DVS process. My understanding is the transcoders do not demux, transcode, remux. I think they transcode the VOB directly. I could be wrong but based on how fast they work, I don't see how they could do all three steps that fast. If this is the case, then the only duplicate, redundant, extra processing is to recreate the IFO files which does not take much time.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Fixed: Now it works when changing CD size before Recover.Seems it does not change the bbMPEGCDSize variable, does it?

[tylo]

Seems it does not change the bbMPEGCDSize variable, does it?It sets it just before Recover. I don't think D2S uses it for anything before that anyway (only for muxing).

Beta5: http://home.tiscali.no/tylohome/files/D2SRoBa.exe
- Fixed: broken batch prepare
- Fixed: Auto Avisynth/FACAR setup (I hope)

If DDogg can't find any bugs in this, there probably aren't any :)
In that case, I can start looking at ReJig...

[DDogg]

In that case, I can start looking at ReJig... Testing now, but...er, I thought conditional filtering was next? :)

/add: those two problems seem to be fixed. Thanks!

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
It sets it just before Recover. I don't think D2S uses it for anything before that anyway (only for muxing).I tried to recover and change to another (smaller) size (to equalize the images). Resumed just at muxing time. All references to 800 were changed, except this one, and the output was 800 sized images.

Changed it manually, resumed again (without D2Sroba this time), and it was OK.

[tylo]

D2SRoBa v3.2.2 relased

@r6d2: Fixed it. You may now Recover also from muxing with different CD size. (answer no for using original project files).

@DDogg: Looking at conditional filtering too.

[manolito]

ReJig

One other thing that I stumbled upon while browsing through the ReJig threads was that if you enter a recompress percentage, you most likely won't hit the exact target size. How precise it will be seems to depend mostly on the percentage (less precise for higher compression), but the engine version you use has an influence, too.

I don't believe that this will be a problem for a recompress percentage under 10% (and this is the area we are interested in), but ReJig has an option to enter the target size instead of a percentage. This takes a little longer, and you can only specify target size in MegaBytes as an integer. Everything behind the decimal point is discarded, so D2SRoBa would have to do the rounding.

Not sure if this is important, but who knows...

BTW, thanks for the new version, works perfectly here.


Cheers
manolito

[manolito]

Help from the Rejig thread :)

I asked a few questions about the integration of ReJig or Requant into D2SRoBa, here's what Nic (author of ReJig) and dragongodz (engine specialist) replied:

@manolito: Really depends on what is needed. If he is going from raw m2v -> raw m2v then he may as well use Requant. The engine's dont differ much at present, so he may as well use the latest ReQuant engine. The commandline will not change (unless someone wants it to change, I dont think it's being used at present). Just post if you need more info. -Nic
Manolito - ye basically what Nic said. for shaving 5% or so off it should be hard to pick any difference. however at low bitrates it still may be possible in which case the 1 of the tweaks which is in 1 of those test files should be better, maybe.

Looks like ReJig would provide some more flexibility for the future while ReQuant is wonderfully small and elegant. Hard to choose between the two...

Cheers
manolito

[windtrader]

I've not done the research like you guys, but my suggestion is to go with the option that provides the easiest amd most flexible coding for Tylo. If both are command line driven the coding should be pretty similar for both routines and this makes it easy to later swap transcoding engines if desired.

If we optimize the Roba values for estimating Q and add the transcoder, DVD2DVD will be really fast. Very exciting!

[Gideon25]

Hey guys. I LOVE ds2roba! Very fast. 2 questions:

1. Is there any way to batch encode a group of avi files?

2. Is there any way to pass besweet arguments via the BeSweetLater.bat file? See the file looks like this:


@echo off
rem BeSweetLater, by tylo
rem September 2003

set output=
set bitrate=
set args=

:loop
if '%1==' goto save
if %1==-b goto bitrate
if %1==-output set output=%2
set args=%args% %1
shift
goto loop

:bitrate
set bitrate=%2
set args=%args% %1 !bitrate
shift
shift
goto loop

:save
if '%output%==' goto exit
echo [BeSweet]> %output%.ini
echo args=%args%>> %output%.ini
echo !bitrate=%bitrate%>> %output%.ini
:exit
Now what I WANT is to pass these arguments so that when besweet runs it always does this:

-ota( -r 25000 23976 -hybridgain ) -ssrc( --rate 48000 ) -toolame( -m s -b 192 -e )

I am working on automating Pal->ntsc plus I like playing around with audio settings. How would I put that into the bat file? Thanks for the help!

[tylo]

/Add: please download again if you downloaded v3.3.0 before this edit.

Woohoo, it's like Christmas Eve. And you've got two presents. Am I your biggest Hero ever, or what? :D Phew, actually you're killing me - please don't come up with any new "clever" ideas.

1. TRANSCODING SUPPORT
Using Requant.exe. Leave tick on for "Use transcoder if oversized". I don't see any point for a limit here. The plugin makes sure it is only a small oversize anyway (< 5% normally).

2. CONDITIONAL FILTERING (aka KISS)
Only works in 'auto' mode. It estimates oversizing % for one CD less than the calculated one. In the GUI, you can specify max oversize % ("Cond. filter under" combo-box). Below this, it runs a test sample with a specified filter. If that makes the size fit one CD less, it continues to use the filter for the following encodings, otherwise the filter is disabled again.

Configuring the conditional filter
----------------------------------
In your avisynth setup, include the following two lines (example):

12=Import(!RoBaConditional.avs)
!RoBaConditional.avs=C:\Path\MyFilter.avs

NB: The filter file should be a dedicated copy - do not point to a non-conditional .avs file. D2SRoBa will rename the file to 'MyFilter.avs.true', and make a dummy empty 'MyFilter.avs'. When it needs to use the filter, it moves the 'MyFilter.avs.true' to 'MyFilter.avs'.

Have fun.


Here's a log from Ice-Age (very compressible movie). I set Adjust Q to 1.5 to make sure I got oversized. The transcoding speed is incredible: Only 1 minute 37 seconds for the complete movie! And the quality looks great (used FACAR). Also note the precision of the transcoder size (100%)!

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.3.0 beta3, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.101.0
- 2004-03-16 21:51:59
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 38 / 100
- Adjust Q : 1.5
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 3.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 40, transcode: Yes)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.4% oversized
- Audio after video : Yes (9% of video, min 112 kbps)
- Cond. filtering : If enabled and est. oversize < 30%
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Configured cond. filter: 'C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\RoBaCondUndotDeen.avs'
- Setting low process priority
- Using CCE version 2.67
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:17:55 (116880 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (160 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1224 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 2340
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1272 (1272) audio1_br=112 video_sz=743356800 fill=100% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=2530 (2560) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1478532000 fill=98.9% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2642 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1101 (Q=38, err=?%, size=643953257, sample sz=12892288)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 1272 (max 2642) kbps, size=743356800 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1268 (Q=30, err=-0.3%, size=741353657, sample sz=14842296)
- Determined Q : 28 = round(30 - 1.5 + (-0.3)/1.6)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-16 21:56:02
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 28)
- OPV pass result: 101.4% on target (753519388 / 743356800) Sizing pass speed: 2.07
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-16 22:33:59
- Start transcoding (Requant 98.65%)
- Transcoding pass result: 100% on target (743022699 / 743356800) Sizing pass speed: 48.44
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-16 22:35:36
- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "D:\Video\TEST3\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "D:\Video\TEST3\Audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\Video\TEST3\Audio\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -ota( -d -80 ) -2lame( -e -b 112 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-16 22:42:16
- Recover DVD2SVCD

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
Am I your biggest Hero ever, or what? :DMine used to be Batman, but now it's absolutely you! :)

:thanks: Going to try it right away.

[Gideon25]

Originally posted by tylo
/Add: please download again if you downloaded v3.3.0 before this edit.

Woohoo, it's like Christmas Eve. And you've got two presents. Am I your biggest Hero ever, or what? :D Phew, actually you're killing me - please don't come up with any new "clever" ideas.

1. TRANSCODING SUPPORT
Using Requant.exe. Leave tick on for "Use transcoder if oversized". I don't see any point for a limit here. The plugin makes sure it is only a small oversize anyway (< 5% normally).
[/size]

COOL! Anyway you wrote the Besweetlater.bat file, correct? So I assume there is no way to pass arguments to besweet like in my post previous to your post above? Is it possible? Thanks!

[tylo]

I suppose you could pad them after the arguments passed by D2S, but I'm not sure it's a good idea. Make sure you have set audio bitrate 192:

:save
set args=%args% -ota( -r 25000 23976 -hybridgain ) -ssrc( --rate 48000 ) -toolame( -m s -b !bitrate -e )
if '%output%==' goto exit
....

ps: what is -toolame(...) (vs. -2lame(...))

[manolito]

Am I your biggest Hero ever, or what? Phew, actually you're killing me - please don't come up with any new "clever" ideas.
Hey, you sure are!!! And I promise no more "clever" ideas for the near future (getting back my motorcycle from hibernation next weekend).

Just FYI I tested ReQuant and Rejig with a couple of engine tweaks from dragongodz. For a recompression value of 91% all the different programs delivered the same visual quality on the TV and also with PowerDVD on my LCD monitor. Size accuracy was at 100.01% in all cases with ReQuant being a tiny bit more accurate. So ReQuant is the best we can get here.

Thanks a million, I already made an encode with 3.30 over night, all went great.

Cheers
manolito

[DDogg]

tylo,

1> Although I had transcoding checked and it showed 'yes' in the log, the resizing pass used CCE. This was in a restart.

"- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 1.0%, or > 0.3% from target sz, or Q > 40, transcode: Yes)"

2> The line above suggests Q>40 will engage the transcoder. That seems it would do more harm than good?

3> You mentioned the conditional filter only works in auto mode. Was this only for your first attempt? I hope so, as it would be a bummer for DVD'ers to be excluded from this great feature. In DVD mode or svcd size modes the conditional value is not greyed out suggesting that it is active.

/add: Trying automode again, this log does not make sense to me:

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.3.0, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.101.0
- 2004-03-17 08:55:10
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 25 / 100
- Adjust Q : 0.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 1.0%, or > 0.3% from target sz, or Q > 40, transcode: Yes)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.0% oversized
- Audio after video : Yes (9% of video, min 128 kbps)
- Cond. filtering : If enabled and est. oversize < 10%
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Configured cond. filter: 'C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCDBeta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\RoBaConditional.avs'
- Setting low process priority
- Using CCE version 2.50
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:24:38 (121769 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1082 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1224
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=1146 (1146) audio1_br=128 video_sz=727536255 fill=100% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=2230 (2340) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1415711909 fill=95.7% cbr=0
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2626 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2279 (Q=25, err=?%, size=1447359466, sample sz=14548596)
- Estimated oversize for 3 CD(s): -1.#IND%
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 4
- Target mpv BR : 0 (max 0) kbps, size=0 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 10765 (Q=6, err=?%, size=6834404904, sample sz=68698204)
- Estim. mpv BR : 10765 (Q=30, err=?%, size=6834405302, sample sz=68698208)
- Estim. mpv BR : 10765 (Q=1, err=?%, size=6834404904, sample sz=68698204)
- Determined Q : 1 = round(1 - 0.0 + (-1.#IND)/-1.#IND)
- Reduced CD size : 2 (fill = 0%)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 09:07:47
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 1)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
2> The line above suggests Q>40 will engage the transcoder. That seems it would do more harm than good?IMHO, no more harm. But it would be interesting to try.
I hope so, as it would be a bummer for DVD'ers to be excluded from this great feature.But DVDers already know the number of media from the start: 1.

I'm confused, DDogg. Why do you think conditional filtering would be useful in this case? You mean to lower the Q only when near which Auto Q? Remember Auto Q is not used on size based modes. Even Max Q was sort of dropped by Tylo and he always starts with 32 now. :confused:

Tylo, how do I have the sample test with filtering done inconditionally? Do I input 0 or 100? Excuse me if the answer if obvious. I did not sleep well.

PS: Did you get my e-mail?

[DDogg]

IMHO, no more harm. But it would be interesting to try. HuH?! I thought the whole point of this feature was to best use a second pass to redistribute bits under the dificult circumstances of this high of Q. Transcoding is not going to do that.
I'm confused, DDogg. Why do you think conditional filtering would be useful in this case? You must not have slept well (nor did I). We had multiple messages about conditional filtering for size mode last week. I'm the one that doesn't get the big deal. If I set a requested Q for X size and d2sroba determines it can't deliver that Q/Size, then I am just requesting that the conditional be kicked in. WHAT is so difficult about that? See the previous posts.

Now on to a more constructive topic. The current D2sroba seems to be broken and do some unusual things for me.

Presently, the sizes of the samples make no sense,

Q1 = 35,867 kb
Q6 = 35,867 kb
Q25= 14,874 kb
Q38= 35,867 kb

All samples after the first seem to use a 0/0 bitrate. CCE 2.5 shows "OPV:Q1 (0-0 kbps)"

--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 5755 (Q=6, err=?%, size=3644446046, sample sz=36727720)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5755 (Q=38, err=?%, size=3644446046, sample sz=36727720)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5755 (Q=1, err=?%, size=3644446046, sample sz=36727720)
- Determined Q : 1 = round(1 - 0.0 + (-1.#IND)/-1.#IND)
- Reduced CD size : 2 (fill = 0%)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 09:36:21
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 1)

Note: If the process is interupted, the conditional.avs will be left in a changed state as the real avs has been renamed to whatever.avs.true. Shouldn't d2sroba check for a .true file and if it exists, clean up and rename it back to whatever.avs?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
HuH?! I thought the whole point of this feature was to best use a second pass to redistribute bits under the dificult circumstances of this high of Q.Yeah, I know, but I never really bougth that stuff too much.
WHAT is so difficult about that? See the previous posts.As I pointed out before, I don't see any problem, and I don't see any benefit. I'm really sorry if my post looked aggresive to you, it wasn't certainly my intention. I just wanted to understand, which I still don't, probably for my lack of sleep. If it was, I apologize.

But yours certainly looks aggresive to me. For one, you must remember that wise man talking about CAPS (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51632) in a forum. You might as well check your previous posts. ;)

[DDogg]

CAPS are a raised voice. Mine was. Sorry, I was feeling frustrated with the redundancy of the discussion and seeing these worms sticking their heads up again. This particular one is very strange and difficult to trace out.

[tylo]

@DDogg: You've managed to stumble upon a bug that has been there all the time. It's not related to this release. - I think it's an easy fix.
The line above suggests Q>40 will engage the transcoder. That seems it would do more harm than good?It does suggest it, yes, but it won't. (I agree that it would probably do more harm than good). Maybe I can disable that box when transcoder is selected... /Add: I see now. I can make the log printout clear (leaving out Q>40) when transcoder is selected, but the GUI may be misleading still.
If I set a requested Q for X size and d2sroba determines it can't deliver that Q/Size, then I am just requesting that the conditional be kicked in.Yeah, well. that is actually a different algorithm than the one that is implemented. What if it can't deliver even with the filter on? Should it go on by increasing Q and still use the filter, or give up and drop the filter, and only increase Q? Not obvious to me.
Tylo, how do I have the sample test with filtering done inconditionally? Do I input 0 or 100?Set it higher than 100 to be absolutely sure that it kicks in. (why do you want that??)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
What if it can't deliver even with the filter on? Should it go on by increasing Q and still use the filter, or give up and drop the filter, and only increase Q? Not obvious to me.That makes two sleepless confused D2Sroba users. :)
(why do you want that??) Because of this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=452951&highlight=thinking+that+since+compressibility#post452951).

[manolito]

Originally posted by DDogg
If I set a requested Q for X size and d2sroba determines it can't deliver that Q/Size, then I am just requesting that the conditional be kicked in. WHAT is so difficult about that? See the previous posts.
Now you guys got me confused, too. Up to now I was quite sure that in size mode D2SRoBa ignores whatever has been entered in the "AutoQ" and "MaxQ" boxes. So if you specify 1 CD/DVD, D2SRoBa will deliver that size no matter what.

Am I wrong?

[DDogg]

@DDogg: You've managed to stumble upon a bug that has been there all the time. I had thought it was specific to CCE 2.50 because when I did a restart and changed to 2.67.23 it was ok. Just now I replicated it with a new run using 2.67.23 and the bitrate was 0-500. Is strange. If you feel like it, let me know a little more. I do have a replicatable setup so I can test easily. I'll keep that directory intact until I hear from you.Maybe I can disable that box when transcoder is selectedWhy? If Q>40 then just run CCE, else honor the transcode checkbox. That way we don't lose a feature. Is it that simple? Yeah, well. that is actually a different algorithm than the one that is implemented. What if it can't deliver even with the filter on? Should it go on by increasing Q and still use the filter, or give up and drop the filter, and only increase Q? Not obvious to me. Well, maybe I didn't think it out, but my logic was more simple. Kick it in if needed and let the result be whatever it is. What I mean is that the Q is going to be the lowest it can be with the conditional filter. It is what it is and that is not your problem. The user knows he got the best Q he is going to get, but without having to run it when it is not needed.

/add:@manolito
Now you guys got me confused, too. Up to now I was quite sure that in size mode D2SRoBa ignores whatever has been entered in the "AutoQ" and "MaxQ" boxes. So if you specify 1 CD/DVD, D2SRoBa will deliver that size no matter what.You are right, but I was assuming some new parameter in DVD mode, and maybe SVCD size mode that would be used as a target. Maybe that makes it too complicated. Those boxes are actually greyed in DVD mode and I think they should be (ought to be) greyed in svcd size mode - tylo? Perhaps allowing autoQ to be active for this purpose would work. Again, if that makes it too complicated then to heck with it.

/add: At the time of our discusions I did not know that tylo was going to add the "Cond. Filter under" box where x is a percentage. I had thought there was going to be something like a "Run Cond. Filter when under/over X Q" type of thing. So, I thought the logic would easily work for either mode. Now I see it is different so I withdraw my request. Still, it would have been a great feature to have.

[tylo]

@DDogg: Some details about the bug you discovered: Under 'Calculations:' it only computes values for 1 and 2 CDs, because that is the only "sensible" numCDs for that short movie. You gave a fairly low Auto Q=25, which by chance just didn't fit 2 CDs but required 3!. The plugin didn't handle that situation. This bug is very rare. The reason you didn't get it with 2.67, is probably that 2.67 normally need a lower BR for equal Q's compared to 2.50, and it fitted 2 CDs.
Why? If Q>40 then just run CCE, else honor the transcode checkbox. That way we don't lose a feature. Is it that simple?Yes.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by tylo
The plugin didn't handle that situation. This bug is very rare.Might this be related to the MinMax function you use, where IIRC 6 and 200 are absolute limits?

[DDogg]

tylo, note I was using full DVD resolution and LanczosResize as I was thinking it might get the conditional to turn on. Perhaps that is why it fouled up the calc. This scenario is not too far fetched so do you think you should consider protecting against it?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by sPeziFisH
No no, you did a great job, the FAQ is still clear enough.
But if you look into the code, .au3, you'll see that the variable for CBR-Encoding is set to 1 if your actual bitrate is > (max + max.avg)/2.
If you're using 'Adjust ...' the bitrate for this criteria is somewhat above max minus offset: CBR_threshold = max_by_spec - audio - (0.5*offset).
k, the code is a bit more complex so I guess it's easy to miss sth. but so far my look at the code (not a short look :( ) still tries to tell me that.
Maybe it's not that important, D2SRoBa does its job excellent, but it would be nice to know, what Tylo did here.
@Batman :), would you have a minute check this? If sPeziFisH is correct, I should rephrase the FAQ.

BTW, did you get my mail on the requant thing?

[windtrader]

Now my turn to be confused, albiet inly slightly, I think, maybe. :) Just got around to loading 3.3.1 and based on my understanding of the past posts, following are my comments. Remember - I only wear DVD brand shades so don't forget they are colored more "size" rather than "Q".

Conditional sizing pass - New checkbox to select transcoder for cond. pass. Maybe the way it is layed out causes my confusion. Here is how it seems the logic should work.

D2SRoba calcs best Q for first pass then encodes
IF Output between low limit and high limit THEN done.
IF Output less than low limit THEN second pass using encoder
IF Output greater than high limit THEN
IF transcoder flag = on THEN second pass using transcoder
ELSE second pass using encoder

Given the above options, "Q over x" is not referenced. This makes sense to me since the notion of swapping in the transcoder for the second pass is based on the premise that an oversized output from the first pass encode would be between 1-10% max and that transcoding reductions of less than 10% is quite acceptable. Summing this up: "Only size matters, quality (Q) is irrelavent". :)

So, what happens if a first pass encode produces a file more than 10% oversized? Do you do nothing, transcode, encode, based on Q over, conditioanl sizing pass checkbox set or use transcoder if oversized checked. This much harder to map out what happens based on the Roba window.

My own view is oversizes of more than 10% are rare but if it does occur you would not want to transcode but do a second pass encode. The goal here is fixed target size; so "Only size matters, quality (Q) is irrelavent".

My comments represent the DVD-5 users who is constrained (for purposes of this discussion) to a fixed size target (DVD-5). SVCD users have a combination of quality and size variables to adjust, so these comments might not apply at all.

Quick recommendation: DVD users (DVD to DVD option).

IF transcoder is checked THEN
Gray the Q over option
Gray "Q over" option
ENDIF

*Find Q then encode first pass *

IF transcoder is checked
IF output less than low limit
THEN encode second pass
ELSE IF output > 100% of target size
THEN transcode
ENDIF)
ENDIF
ELSE *transcode not checked *
(IF output less than low limit OR
output greater high limit OR
output greater Q over
THEN encode second pass
ENDIF)

[tylo]

Sorry, don't have time to read your posts.
Try this - should fix ddoggs problems, and print exact criterias for transcode/cce etc.
http://home.tiscali.no/tylohome/files/D2SRoBa332.exe

[Gideon25]

Originally posted by tylo
I suppose you could pad them after the arguments passed by D2S, but I'm not sure it's a good idea. Make sure you have set audio bitrate 192:

:save
set args=%args% -ota( -r 25000 23976 -hybridgain ) -ssrc( --rate 48000 ) -toolame( -m s -b !bitrate -e )
if '%output%==' goto exit
....

ps: what is -toolame(...) (vs. -2lame(...))

Actually all I needed to do was add this:
set args=%args% -ota( -r 25000 23976 )
if '%output%==' goto exit

Check out WHY I wanted to:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72883


ALL thanks to Ds2Roba :) Schweet!

[DDogg]

Sweet!


--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2626 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2380 (Q=25, err=?%, size=1592942139, sample sz=15936496)
- Estimated oversize for 2 CD(s): 6.3%
- Cond. filter test pass:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2007 (Q=25, err=?%, size=1343482529, sample sz=13440792)
- Cond. filter success - reducing num CDs to 2
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 2240 (max 2562) kbps, size=1498833833 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2134 (Q=21, err=-4.7%, size=1428561144, sample sz=14291956)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2237 (Q=18, err=-0.1%, size=1497327403, sample sz=14979924)
- Determined Q : 18 = round(18 - 0.0 + (-0.1)/1.5)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 18:50:23
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 18)

[lordkinbote]

Hi,

I hope I'm not asking a silly question but when I use D2SRoba (and I will give you a copy of my log) it changes the lengths on the Bitrate tab to 0-92 mins. on 1 CD, 92-138 mins. use 2 CDs, etc. I'd rather that not be the case 'cause I don't trust putting over 60mins on 1 800MB CD without it losing quality. But, in this specific case, I have a 98 min avi and, while using AutoFitCD for cropping, it put the whole movie onto 1 CD. That seems just wrong to me. Anyway, here's a copy of my log. Oh, and I'm using v1.2.1 build 3 of DVD2SVCD. Any suggestions of how I can get it to change the min lengths so it doesn't try to squeeze so much onto 1 CD, I'd be greatly appreciative. Again, I apologize if I'm asking an obvious question. Thanks.

D2SRoBa v3.3.1, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.100.0
- 2004-03-17 18:42:15
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 35 / 40
- Adjust Q : 0.8
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 1.0%, or > 0.0% from target sz, or Q > 40, transcode: Yes)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.4% oversized
- Audio after video : Yes (10% of video, min 128 kbps)
- Cond. filtering : If enabled and est. oversize < 10%
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Clean previous : No
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Avisynth setup: FitCD
- Setting low process priority
- Using CCE version 2.50
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:38:41 (148049 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (224 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1977 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 1485
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=965 (965) audio1_br=128 video_sz=714336425 fill=100% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=2009 (2009) audio1_br=192 video_sz=1487152205 fill=100% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2530 (3086) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1872819850 fill=83.3% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2562 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 756 (Q=35, err=?%, size=560088210, sample sz=5617944)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 965 (max 2626) kbps, size=714336425 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 992 (Q=23, err=2.8%, size=734603386, sample sz=7368412)
- Estim. mpv BR : 960 (Q=24, err=-0.5%, size=711217426, sample sz=7133840)
- Determined Q : 23 = round(24 - 0.8 + (-0.5)/3.3)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 19:05:17
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 23)
- OPV pass result: 101.7% on target (726292144 / 714336425) Speed factor: 0.72
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 21:22:23
- Start transcoding (Requant 98.35%)
- Transcoding pass result: 100% on target (713981070 / 714336425) Speed factor: 22.64
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 21:26:58
- Executing: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "D:\DVD Rip\audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2.wav" -output "D:\DVDRIP~1\audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\DVDRIP~1\audio\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -ota( -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 128 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 21:55:12
- Recover DVD2SVCD

[windtrader]

Tylo, I see the new comments in 3.3.2, is the following correct?

transcode flag on, low limit=3%, high limit=n/a, Q=25

transcode when opv sz > 0% and Q <= 25

encode when opv sz < 3% or Q > 25

no sizing pass when 0% >= opv sz >= -3.0% and Q <= 25

No change to processing when transcode flag not set on.

[DDogg]

lordkinbote, D2SRoBa did exactly what it is designed to do on your encode. The very basic premise of RoBa auto mode is that bitrate (and physical space)does not matter, only Q does. In effect, auto mode says, "Some movies are very compressible so why put them on more disks than is needed when you can achieve the quality specified by the user on less?". Inversely it also says, "Some movies are extremely difficult to compress so why put them on less disks than it takes to deliver the quality specified by the user". You specified - Auto Q / Max Q : 35 / 40 which commands D2SRoBa to solve for the smallest disk space that will deliver a Q of 35, or better (you got much better).


You just happened to have an ultra compressible source, somewhat like the characteristics of the Matrix. Probably 16:9, dark and slow moving. The important thing to look at in your log is the final Q, which was - Determined Q : 23 = round(24 - 0.8 + (-0.5)/3.3) A Q of 23 is terrific quality. Did you get a chance to view the encode? I think you will be very hard pressed to tell it from the original.

There is one problem in that some players like my very old Apex have problems playing a movie over 60 minutes on one disk. It will play fine, but if you attempt to seek or change chapters past about an hour it goes crazy. Assuming you don't have that problem, just be happy that D2SRoBa did its job so well :)

Again, only Q is important. Your next encode might be the same length of time, but a very hard to compress source like SPRyan or Holes. Then you might find D2SRoBa might put it on 3 disks so as to deliver the same constant level of quality.

BTW, what was the resolution and what resizing filter did you use?

[lordkinbote]

I only looked at it on the PC. I didn't burn it to disc yet 'cause I wasn't sure if I was going to do it over. It did look okay on the PC. It WAS WS 16:9, I believe, so that probably was a big factor. Thanks for explaining it to me. I'll try not to worry about it if it looks good. I had this OLD way of thinking, I guess. ;)

[lordkinbote]

oh, to answer your question, in the Frameserver tab under FitCD it says it used BicubicResize(448,304,0,0.6,4,0,696,288). I hope YOU know what that means 'cause I don't, not after the first two numbers. I'm not sure if that's what you mean by resolution though.

[NuroPreak]

sorry i'm a newbie so please no flame i have read all the faqs out their :)

but i think i have a similiar problem like lordkinbote i think but the problem is i don't get the awnser from DDogg what is wrong with the settings i used? :S

i want to have an svcd with good quality that looks like 3 a 4 pass vbr so i donno if my D2SRoBa settings are correct, hope you guys will help me out

NuroPreak


here are my logs

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.2.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.101.0
- 2004-03-17 18:24:07
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 35 / 40
- Adjust Q : 0.7
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 2.0%, or > 0.5% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.4% oversized
- Audio after video : Yes (10% of video, min 224 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:53:44 (170618 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (224 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1740 kbps, 3 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 240
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=420 (420) audio1_br=224 video_sz=358297800 fill=100% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1080 (1080) audio1_br=224 video_sz=921337200 fill=100% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=1740 (1740) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1484376600 fill=100% cbr=0
- 4 CD: video_br=2400 (2400) audio1_br=224 video_sz=2047416000 fill=100% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2530 for auto sample (adjusted for 3 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 417 (Q=35, err=?%, size=356219104, sample sz=501076)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 420 (max 2530) kbps, size=358297800 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 420 (Q=34, err=0%, size=358414389, sample sz=504164)
- Determined Q : 33 = round(34 - 0.7 + (0)/0.7)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 18:25:56
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 33)
- OPV pass result: 299.5% on target (1073067640 / 358297800) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.32
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-18 00:17:38
- Start VBR sizing pass (420 kbps)
- Sizing pass result: 121.1% on target (433777236 / 358297800) CCE 2.67 speed: 0.36
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-18 05:36:12
- Executing: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "E:\RIPPEN\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "E:\RIPPEN\Audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "E:\RIPPEN\Audio\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-18 06:26:15
- Recover DVD2SVCD

[tylo]

transcode flag on, low limit=3%, high limit=n/a, Q=25

transcode when opv sz > 0% and Q <= 25
encode when opv sz < 3% or Q > 25
no sizing pass when 0% >= opv sz >= -3.0% and Q <= 25
No change to processing when transcode flag not set on.
The 3 first assumptions are correct, but if transcode flag is off, the first assumption will become:
encode when opv sz > 0% above target
Or, look at the log window when you tick off transcode.

@NuroPreak: No reason to flame - you are welcome here. But I don't understand anything from this log. Did I mess up 3.3.2 completely? The "Calculations:" section looks all wrong - sizes are strange. Then the samples looks even weirder. What is going on?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by lordkinbote
I had this OLD way of thinking, I guess. ;) Paradigm shift is a religious experience. :) You may want to take a look at the guide pointed on my sig for a whole picture in easy language, particularly the "RoBa unveiled" section.

[tylo]

@NuroPreak
- Movie length : 01:53:44 (170618 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (224 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1740 kbps, 3 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1500, select 15 frames
- Sample frames : 240

Something is messed up with your input files. D2S's video estimation is way off, and 'Sample frames' is too low. Double-check all DVD2SVCD settings, and clean the output directory and start over. Don't mess with settings in the D2S bitrate tab. You have a slow machine, so that may have influence. Report if you still have probs. I'm offline until monday.

@r6d2: I saw your mail - I'll think about it, but others have contributed too, including you. :)

[lordkinbote]

I'll take a look at your guide. It had been a while since I perused the forums and you were still working on the guide, I believe, last time I looked. I'm glad there's something out there for...uhm, less knowledgable persons like myself. :D Sometimes ignorance is bliss, but not always.

[windtrader]

First run through 3.3.2 went fine. Log below. Overall time about 2 1/2 hours total: ripping through authoring. This process is outstanding.

One very minor comment: It might be nice to add a end of job comment at the end of the Roba log.

--------------------------------------------------------------
transcode flag on, low limit=3%, high limit=n/a, Q=25

transcode when opv sz > 0% and Q <= 25
encode when opv sz < 3% or Q > 25
no sizing pass when 0% >= opv sz >= -3.0% and Q <= 25
No change to processing when transcode flag not set on.
-------------------------------------------------------------
The 3 first assumptions are correct, but if transcode flag is off, the first assumption will become:
encode when opv sz > 0% above target
Or, look at the log window when you tick off transcode.

Thanks. I was not clear on the flag off statement. I meant to say that it works like today i.e. "no change".

transcode flag off, low limit=3%, high limit=0%, Q=25
Encode when 0% < opv sz < -3.0% OR Q > 25



D2SRoBa v3.3.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.101.0
- 2004-03-17 20:40:21
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Adjust Q : 0.0
- Sizing pass : Yes (Transcode if opv sz > 0.0% from target, and Q <= 40)
(Encode if opv sz < -3.0% from target, or Q > 40)
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Avisynth setup: FACAR
- Setting low process priority
- Using CCE version 2.67
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:04:37 (179274 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 4465 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 3588
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=4465 (4465) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4173227446 fill=100% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 4465 (max 9000) kbps, size=4173227446 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 4629 (Q=32, err=3.7%, size=4327107558, sample sz=86602976)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4409 (Q=34, err=-1.3%, size=4121243447, sample sz=82482800)
- Deriv. mpv BR : 4519 (Q=33, err=1.2%)
- Determined Q : 33 = round(33 - 0.0 + (1.2)/2.5)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 21:13:52
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 33)
- OPV pass result: 100.7% on target (4202588396 / 4173227446) Speed factor: 1.49
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 22:37:35
- Start transcoding (Requant 99.3%)
- Transcoding pass result: 100% on target (4172845341 / 4173227446) Speed factor: 11.97
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-17 22:48:01
- Recover DVD2SVCD


**************************************************
**************************************************
DVD2DVD LOG
**************************************************
**************************************************

WNASPI32.DLL 4.6.0.1021
Key found: C032848B65
--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 8:41:45 PM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2DVD ver. 1.2.2 build 1 BETA 16
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_6.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_7.vob
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 8:41:51 PM
- Free on drive G: 40528.28 mb
- Internal rip
--------------------------------------------------------
Preparing vobfiles to be ripped:
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_6.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_7.vob

Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_6.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_7.vob
Ripping finished. Speed: 6836

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 8:58:45 PM
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVIdg.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -OM=0 -EXIT -OF=[G:\dvd2dvd\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_1.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_2.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_3.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_4.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_5.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_6.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_7.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film activated!
Framerate: 23976
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 9:02:05 PM
- Free on drive G: 33765.16 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: G:\dvd2dvd\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 9:07:48 PM
- Free on drive G: 33365.83 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 4682829788
AudioSectors: 424499516
VideoPAPO: 65963808
ScanOffsetBytes: 268911
SeqAligningBytes: 17090788
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 0.00
PureMPEGStream: 4175006761.00
Seconds: 7479.23
CalcMPEGStream: 4175006761.00
Frames: 179274
CDSize: 4480.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 4476.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 179274
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 3
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: One Pass VBR
Q. Factor: 12
Min. bitrate: 1000
Max. bitrate: 4465
Aspect Ratio: Anamorphic (no borders, encoded as 16:9)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2DV~1\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~2.DLL")
MPEG2Source("G:\dvd2dvd\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
ResizeTo=0 global ResizeMethod=1 DebugMode=0
GammaCorrection=1.0 Hue=0 Saturation=1.0 Brightness=0 Contrast=1.0
DetectedTop=6 DetectedHeight=464
OverscanH=0.00 OverscanV=0.00 BlockOptimization=0 AsoTV=1
global Bicubic_b_Value=0 global Bicubic_c_Value=0.6
DestinationWidth=720
DestinationHeight=480
DestinationTop=0
DestinationBottom=0
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\SimpleResize\SimpleResize.dll")
# Import("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\qmf15b1.avs")
# Import("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\QMF_functions.avs")
# Import("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\PreResize.avs")
Import("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\FACAR.avs")
# Import("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\PostResize.avs")
Import("G:\dvd2dvd\ResampleAudio.avs")
ResampleAudio(44100)
ConvertToYUY2()
----AVS End----

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 10:48:05 PM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2DVD ver. 1.2.2 build 1 BETA 16
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
-
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 10:48:06 PM
- Free on drive G: 25173.29 mb
- Restarting from: Pulldown
--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 10:48:08 PM
- Free on drive G: 25173.29 mb
- Video Pulldown
--------------------------------------------------------
Executing Pulldown. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\pulldown\pulldown.exe" "G:\dvd2dvd\Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv" "G:\dvd2dvd\Pulldown_Encoded_Video_NTSC.mpv" -prog_frames p
Video pulldown finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 10:58:36 PM
- Free on drive G: 21193.75 mb
- Multiplexing Audio and Video
--------------------------------------------------------
Executing MPlex. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\DVDAuthor\mplex.exe" -f 8 -o "G:\dvd2dvd\MPlex_Muxed_File00.mpg" "G:\dvd2dvd\Pulldown_Encoded_Video_NTSC.mpv" "G:\dvd2dvd\Extracted_audio_1.ac3"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 11:11:46 PM
- Free on drive G: 16717.93 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: G:\dvd2dvd\MPlex_Muxed_File00.mpg
7474.788 seconds G:\dvd2dvd\MPlex_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 11:14:13 PM
- Free on drive G: 16717.93 mb
- Authoring DVD
--------------------------------------------------------
Executing DVDAuthor. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\DVDAuthor\dvdauthor.exe" -x "G:\dvd2dvd\DVDAuthor.xml"
Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/17/2004 11:29:18 PM
- Free on drive G: 12241.86 mb
- Conversion done!
--------------------------------------------------------

[NuroPreak]

I'm using CCE 2.67 trial with EclCCE.exe so i can make and save ecl files. furthermore i merged that template into my registry didn't maked any changes in it.. i only put cce on progressive instead of standard. furtherpmore i used this settings @ D2SRoba

http://members.lycos.nl/tristandoornebosch/D2SRoba.JPG

and this are my settings in dvd2svcd, I cutted a few lines because i restarted it a few times.



--------------------------------------------------------
- 17-3-2004 8:48:47
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
- C:\RIPPEN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
- C:\RIPPEN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
- C:\RIPPEN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
- C:\RIPPEN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
- C:\RIPPEN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17-3-2004 8:48:50
- Analyzing subtitles
--------------------------------------------------------
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x20 Language: Nederlands

Executing subtitle selection/verification.
Subtitle selection/verification accepted.
1 subtitle streams selected.
Saving Subtitles ini file
--------------------------------------------------------
- 17-3-2004 8:48:59
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[E:\RIPPEN\Source\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[C:\RIPPEN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob,C:\RIPPEN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob,C:\RIPPEN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob,C:\RIPPEN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob]
Framerate: 25000
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17-3-2004 8:54:37
- Free on drive E: 7371.98 mb
- Extracting the subtitles.
--------------------------------------------------------

Subtitle extraction finished. Extracted these subtitles:
SVCD Stream no: 1 Language: Nederlands Num. of subs: 1365

Saving Subtitle Timecodes.
Permanent subtitles.
Saving Subtitles ini file
--------------------------------------------------------
- 17-3-2004 9:03:54
- Free on drive E: 8176.33 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: E:\RIPPEN\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Framerate: 25000
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17-3-2004 9:10:57
- Free on drive E: 7811.36 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Encoding Audio. Filename: E:\RIPPEN\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\BeSweetLater.bat" -core( -input "E:\RIPPEN\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "E:\RIPPEN\Audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "E:\RIPPEN\Audio\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -C 0db -S 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
Audio conversion of E:\RIPPEN\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17-3-2004 9:11:07
- Free on drive E: 7811.36 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving Subtitle Timecodes.
Permanent subtitles.

Executing Frameserver.
Closing program


Saving Subtitle Timecodes.
Permanent subtitles.

Executing Frameserver.
Closing program

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1667869728
AudioSectors: 193875052
VideoPAPO: 22832964
ScanOffsetBytes: 204742
SeqAligningBytes: 13012466
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 1.00
PureMPEGStream: 1437944496.27
Seconds: 6831.72
CalcMPEGStream: 1437944496.27
Frames: 170618
CDSize: 800.00
Number of CDs: 3
Cut point 795.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 170618
Anti Noise Filter: 2
Passes: 3
Image Quality: 20
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: One Pass VBR
Q. Factor: 5
Min. bitrate: 300
Max. bitrate: 1740
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (borders added, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\INVERS~1\decomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\AVISYN~2.DLL")
mpeg2source("E:\RIPPEN\Source\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
Telecide()
BicubicResize(480,432,0.0,0.6)
AddBorders(0,72,0,72)
ConvertToYUY2()
AvisynthSubtitler("E:\RIPPEN\Subs\","permsubs.txt")
----AVS End----


--------------------------------------------------------
- 17-3-2004 18:24:16
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
-
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17-3-2004 18:24:19
- Free on drive E: 7699.67 mb
- Crash Recovery
- Restarting from: Video encoding
--------------------------------------------------------
- 17-3-2004 18:24:21
- Free on drive E: 7699.67 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving Subtitle Timecodes.
Permanent subtitles.

Executing Frameserver.
Closing program

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1667869728
AudioSectors: 193875052
VideoPAPO: 22832964
ScanOffsetBytes: 204742
SeqAligningBytes: 13012466
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 1.00
PureMPEGStream: 1437944496.27
Seconds: 6831.72
CalcMPEGStream: 1437944496.27
Frames: 170618
CDSize: 800.00
Number of CDs: 3
Cut point 795.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 170618
Anti Noise Filter: 2
Passes: 3
Image Quality: 20
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: One Pass VBR
Q. Factor: 5
Min. bitrate: 300
Max. bitrate: 1740
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (borders added, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\INVERS~1\decomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\AVISYN~2.DLL")
mpeg2source("E:\RIPPEN\Source\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
Telecide()
BicubicResize(480,432,0.0,0.6)
AddBorders(0,72,0,72)
ConvertToYUY2()
AvisynthSubtitler("E:\RIPPEN\Subs\","permsubs.txt")
----AVS End----

--------------------------------------------------------
- 18-3-2004 6:26:23
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.1 build 3
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
-
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 18-3-2004 6:26:23
- Free on drive E: 7036.87 mb
- Restarting from: Muxing and Cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
- 18-3-2004 6:26:26
- Free on drive E: 7036.87 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 18-3-2004 6:26:28
- Free on drive E: 7036.87 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 18-3-2004 6:26:31
- Free on drive E: 7036.86 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 18-3-2004 6:26:34
- Free on drive E: 7036.86 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "E:\RIPPEN\Muxed\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 18-3-2004 6:32:49
- Free on drive E: 6419.02 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: E:\RIPPEN\Muxed\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
6822.922 seconds E:\RIPPEN\Muxed\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 18-3-2004 6:33:23
- Free on drive E: 6419.02 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 97

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --verbose --cue-file="E:\RIPPEN\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue" --bin-file="E:\RIPPEN\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "E:\RIPPEN\VCDXBU~1.XML"
Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 18-3-2004 6:35:45
- Free on drive E: 5791.78 mb
- Conversion done!
--------------------------------------------------------

[lordkinbote]

your link to the picture gets a 404 error.

[NuroPreak]

@lordkinbote

should be working now

@ tylo

ill double check and i will report here again ;)

[lordkinbote]

@NuroPreak

Jackpot!

@r6d2

Man, your guide is EXCELLENT! I'm learning so much and figured out from reading it for 10 minutes why my encodes were going a bit slower than they used to. AutoFit was using Bicubic instead of Bilinear like I used to way back when I first started using DVD2SVCD. Right now I'm encoding mostly AVIs of TV shows or the occasional movie so I'm using AutoFit rather than FACAR to crop and resize. Speaking of FACAR, is there a thorough guide/FAQ that explains how to adjust it 'cause it's still cropping more than I'd like in the overscan department. I've looked at it in the Debug mode 1 and also can tell from the finished encode and the placement of the TV stations' logo (for the tiny annoyance they give, they do help me judge the overscan well). You also helped me to understand "the mystery of the Q. factor" also. It was always as elusive to me as the perpetual motion machine. I just took for granted that more knowledgeable people like you, Tylo and DDogg knew what they were talking about, so when you guys would say, "That's a good Q factor," I'd say, "Okay, if you say so." Ah, ignorance. I'm starting to miss it already.

[DDogg]

tylo, r6d2, does auto made actually support larger disk increments? I ask because my goal was to have encodes that were divisors of 4350 with a Q in the 18 to 28 range. This would allow easy hand authoring in DVDLab and best utilize the DVD. Since the conditional filter usage seemed to be closed to DVD'ers, I thought I could do a workaround using SVCD mode and get the benefit of the conditional filter. I changed bitrate to 0-9000, checked "do not convert audio" and no images and used dvd resolution. All I was interested in were the elementary streams sized in increments of 4350 at an acceptable Q.

Originally I wanted to use 545 (4350/8) or 725 meg segments (4350/6). I then remembered that automode only supports 3 disk segments [This was incorrect-it is 4] so I upped it to 870 (approx 4350/5) and got a Q in the 50s. Then I used 1088 and got a q of 45. Then 2175 and got the same q of 45. This confuses me and I hope one of you can help me understand what is happening. It sure seems to me that automode with the 1088 and 2175 sizes should have incremented segments to bring the Q down to the specified area.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by lordkinbote
Speaking of FACAR, is there a thorough guide/FAQ that explains how to adjust it 'cause it's still cropping more than I'd like in the overscan department.Well, I think the Readme is quite complete, if something is missing please let me know.

In short, you can adjust overscan without actually encoding, using preview mode. Just change the Overscan variables while Debug mode is 3. If you think it is cropping too much with 5%, use 4% and see the results.
(for the tiny annoyance they give, they do help me judge the overscan well)If you are in NTSC world, my sig also points to an overscan/resolution measuring tool which may be of use.
Ah, ignorance. I'm starting to miss it already.LOL!

Don't worry, it will come back. :) . As soon as you get to a next knowledge stadium, several more open before you. That's the fun of this.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Since the conditional filter usage seemed to be closed to DVD'ersThe fact that I don't get where the benefit is does not mean there is none! As you can see it so clearly, please tell us so we can pump up the idea! Perhaps presenting a case where it applies and the logic you'd expect to be used?
I then remembered that automode only supports 3 disk segmentsUh...? What do you mean by this? :confused: AFAIK, any media size is supported, except for the strange circumstance, which might have not been found yet, of weird rounding errors whithin AutoIt to produce weird output.
I hope one of you can help me understand what is happening.No clue, please :logfile:

(Do you remember I reported to DVD2SVCD one of these errors showing up by VideoPAPO being negative? Maybe it's an error which comes from D2S estimation?)

[DDogg]

Uh...? What do you mean by this? AFAIK, any media size is supported, except for the strange circumstance, which might have not been found yet, of weird rounding errors whithin AutoIt to produce weird output. As far as I could tell, automode only calculates/predicts size for up to a maximum total of 3 disks [/edit:turns out it is 4]. Is this incorrect? By segments, I meant the specified CD size.

/add: r6d2, I just ran a test using a standard SVCD setup and 545 as the cd size. D2SRoBa did indeed use use up to 4 cds in its calculations so my previous statement about only 3 was incorrect. I will check some more and get back to you with a log. I think it has something to do with a bitrate ceiling in svcd automode.

[lordkinbote]

Originally posted by r6d2
Well, I think the Readme is quite complete, if something is missing please let me know.

I will look at the readme again since reading your guide, but I was going on reading it before (yesterday) and playing with the Debug mode settings in the preview window, but I wasn't getting a clear view of how to adjust it to get the results I want. I tried a few things but it was just getting off center rather than anything else because I had no idea what I was doing.

In short, you can adjust overscan without actually encoding, using preview mode. Just change the Overscan variables while Debug mode is 3. If you think it is cropping too much with 5%, use 4% and see the results.
If you are in NTSC world, my sig also points to an overscan/resolution measuring tool which may be of use.

Yes, I've used the overscan bin/cue to view my TV's %. It's not so much the TV cutting it off being my concern nor FACAR cropping off a bigger % than my TV needs (i.e showing black on sides), it's that FACAR actually crops more from the sides of the actual video and I'd rather it resize it/shrink it more to fit the overscan settings. With AutoFitCD, I can adjust (the Vertical, at least) and it keeps the aspect ratio in the preview window and you can see that if you put it one size smaller and watch the preview, more of the video appears on the sides while keep the same side borders. If you do more than one size, it'll go from 448 on the sides to 432 which is a little too much and there is no more video picture gained. You can tell this in the preview window and I first noticed it when I noticed the TV station's logo was much closer to the edge of the screen using FACAR than on the raw AVI and when I use my DVD player to zoom out, I can see that it's not that the rest of the video is in the overscan, it's just not there anymore. It's been cropped off.


Don't worry, it will come back. :) . As soon as you get to a next knowledge stadium, several more open before you. That's the fun of this.

Well, as a certain pilot of the Millennium Falcon said, "DON'T GET COCKY, KID!" :p

[Gideon25]

Hmm. Well I am still messing with the Q stuff myself. Lately I have been getting VERY low Q's. Is this ok? A few log files:


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.2.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.101.0
- 2004-03-18 12:42:59
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 40 / 100
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 2.5%, or > 1.0% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.4% oversized
- Audio after video : Yes (9% of video, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 00:43:17 (62268 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2400 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1248
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2262 (2320) audio1_br=192 video_sz=734329204 fill=97.7% cbr=0
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2562 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1463 (Q=40, err=?%, size=474971123, sample sz=9519560)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 2262 (max 2562) kbps, size=734329204 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1885 (Q=17, err=-16.7%, size=611987866, sample sz=12265704)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2216 (Q=1, err=-2%, size=719680771, sample sz=14424128)
- Determined Q : 1 = round(1 - 0.5 + (-2)/0.9)
- Reduced CD size : 784 (fill = 97.7%)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-18 12:49:43
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 1)
- OPV pass result: 98.6% on target (724333168 / 734329204) CCE 2.67 speed: 2.15
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-18 13:09:56
- Executing: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "E:\DVDfiles\3\Encoded_audio_1.mp2.wav" -output "E:\DVDfiles\3\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "E:\DVDfiles\3\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -ota( -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 48000 ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s ) -ota( -r 25000 23976 )
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-18 13:13:25
- Recover DVD2SVCD


and

Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 40 / 100
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : Yes (if opv sz < 2.5%, or > 1.0% from target sz, or Q > 40)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.4% oversized
- Audio after video : Yes (9% of video, min 128 kbps)
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 00:43:23 (62421 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (192 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 2400 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1260
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=2262 (2314) audio1_br=192 video_sz=736133539 fill=97.9% cbr=0
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2562 for auto sample (adjusted for 1 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 1517 (Q=40, err=?%, size=493752488, sample sz=9966648)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 2262 (max 2562) kbps, size=736133539 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 1863 (Q=19, err=-17.6%, size=606398415, sample sz=12240464)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2326 (Q=1, err=2.8%, size=757020487, sample sz=15280848)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2316 (Q=3, err=2.4%, size=753960272, sample sz=15219076)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2008 (Q=14, err=-11.2%, size=653770406, sample sz=13196692)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2295 (Q=5, err=1.5%, size=747019255, sample sz=15078968)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2279 (Q=6, err=0.8%, size=741684539, sample sz=14971284)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2252 (Q=7, err=-0.4%, size=733117999, sample sz=14798364)
- Determined Q : 6 = round(7 - 0.5 + (-0.4)/1.2)
- Reduced CD size : 786 (fill = 97.9%)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-18 13:36:54
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 6)
- OPV pass result: 100.8% on target (742246680 / 736133539) CCE 2.67 speed: 2.1
- Oversized: Cutting last CD image off by 0.830439135853581%
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-18 13:57:37
- Executing: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input "E:\DVDfiles\4\Encoded_audio_1.mp2.wav" -output "E:\DVDfiles\4\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "E:\DVDfiles\4\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -ota( -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 48000 ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s ) -ota( -r 25000 23976 )

I have to say they look GREAT. However I am thinking perhaps I could encode them even smaller and keep the same quality? I am doing svcds from Xvids and Divx. Most are PAL 576x432 and I am ecoding them to NTSC 480x480. I am able to fit with these settings around five 45 minute episodes but since there are mostly 26 eps in a season I have to fit 6 eps on 1 dvd to get the whole season onto 5 dvds. So I simply lower the bitrate as low as I can and as long as the Q stays lower than 35 the quality should still be excellent, correct? Almost all of my encodes have extremely low Q's so I assum that means I am WASTING bitrate and wasting dvd room?

[DDogg]

Gideon25,

The user never touches bitrate in d2sroba/d2v, you would only adjust the cd size downward in d2sroba. That will force the Q upward. Try 545 or 725. Using DVD mode or SVCD mode/1 disk with a specified size may be better for you for this usage. Since the eps should have similar charateristics, after a little experimentation you should be able to reuse the size for every encode. 4350/8 ~ 545 so you may be able to get 8 on one DVD. Try one and see where the Q falls. If too high (over 32) then try 725 (4350/6)

/add: to kick d2sroba into dvd mode. Open D2s, select misc tab, click dvd and exit. Then when d2sroba is run, it will come up in dvd mode.

[DDogg]

tylo, r6d2, ok - here is a log of this oddball usage I am trying. My question is: Why did it not continue to increment and bring the Q on to the target? Is 4 disks a max?

I removed my guess about a 2350 bitrate ceiling and will wait on the response.


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.3.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.101.0
- 2004-03-18 14:55:04
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 545 (4350/8)
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 32 / 40
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : Yes (Transcode if opv sz > 0.3% from target, and Q <= 40)
(Encode if opv sz < -2.5% from target, or Q > 40)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.0% oversized
- Audio after video : No
- Cond. filtering : If enabled and est. oversize < 20%
- Adjust max br : No <===
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Avisynth setup: LanczosResize
- Configured cond. filter: 'C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCDBeta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\RoBaConditional.avs'
- Setting low process priority
- Using CCE version 2.50
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:36:36 (138965 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1845 kbps, 3 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1392
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=306 (306) audio1_br=448 video_sz=221697165 fill=100% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1075 (1075) audio1_br=448 video_sz=778838082 fill=100% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=1845 (1845) audio1_br=448 video_sz=1336703500 fill=100% cbr=0
- 4 CD: video_br=2350 (2615) audio1_br=448 video_sz=1702576274 fill=91.4% cbr=0 Why?
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Estim. mpv BR : 3084 (Q=32, err=?%, size=2234605119, sample sz=22383840)
- Estimated oversize for 3 CD(s): 67.2%
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 4
- Target mpv BR : 2350(max 9000) kbps, size=1702576274 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2252(Q=48, err=-4.2%, size=1632170280, sample sz=16349304)

- Waiting for CCE window ...- Estim. mpv BR : 2328 (Q=46, err=-0.9%, size=1686850612, sample sz=16897032)
- Estim. mpv BR : 2367 (Q=45, err=0.7%, size=1715272149, sample sz=17181728)
- Determined Q : 45 = round(45 - 0.5 + (0.7)/1.7)
- Reduced CD size : 500 (fill = 91.4%)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-18 15:06:45
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 45)

/add: 4 disks does seem to be the limit. I really hope that can be increased easily. Since the test above, I tried upping the size to 725 and then checked adj BR with values of 9000-300. Although I think ADJ BR was intended as a limiter, it actually did allow higher BR in the calcs so the 4th cd showed as 100% fill. The best part was I got just the effect I wanted in that the fourth 725 meg segment was eliminated after the conditional test ran. If we could just have more than 4 segments (need 8 if possible) - this could be a new "Auto-Increment" method for DVD mode. Since it is basically SVCD auto-mode the code would be the same and I hope not terribly difficult to implement:

Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 725
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 1.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 32 / 100
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : Yes (Transcode if opv sz > 0.3% from target, and Q <= 40)
(Encode if opv sz < -2.5% from target, or Q > 40)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.0% oversized
- Audio after video : No
- Cond. filtering : If enabled and est. oversize < 20%
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 9000, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Avisynth setup: LanczosResize
- Configured cond. filter: 'C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCDBeta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\RoBaConditional.avs'
- Setting low process priority
- Using CCE version 2.50
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:36:36 (138965 frames, 23.976 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1587 kbps, 2 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 1200, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 1392
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=562 (562) audio1_br=448 video_sz=407169304 fill=100% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1587 (1587) audio1_br=448 video_sz=1149782360 fill=100% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2613 (2613) audio1_br=448 video_sz=1893119916 fill=100% cbr=0
- 4 CD: video_br=3638 (3638) audio1_br=448 video_sz=2635732972 fill=100% cbr=0
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=8552 for auto sample (adjusted for 4 CDs)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3082 (Q=32, err=?%, size=2233437893, sample sz=22372148)
- Estimated oversize for 3 CD(s): 17.9%
- Cond. filter test pass:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2449 (Q=32, err=?%, size=1774655727, sample sz=17776568)
- Cond. filter success - reducing num CDs to 3 So, this fills 3 of the 6 725 meg segments in a DVD. Using 8 segments of 545 would be better.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 3
- Target mpv BR : 2613 (max 8552) kbps, size=1893119916 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2627 (Q=29, err=0.5%, size=1903759004, sample sz=19069784)
- Determined Q : 29 = round(29 - 0.5 + (0.5)/2.3)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-18 16:58:56
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 29)

[lordkinbote]

I'm giving example measurements of an AVI of a WS TV show I'm about to encode. All of these measurements are from the Preview windows for both FACAR in Debug mode 1 and AutoFitCD. Oh, by the way, I was mistaken in saying the sides/Vertical measurement would go to 432 when going down 2 sizes in AutoFit. 432 is perfect for my TV (it has HUGE overscan), instead going down two sizes brings the Vertical to 416. THAT is too much. I got it to 432 by changing the Blocks TV-Overscan setting to 3 instead of the default 2. Anyway here are the measurements between the two.

The original source AVI's size is 624x352.

In AutoFitCD, with 3 Blocks TV-Overscan and 16 block optimization, it crops to 618x352 and resizes to 432x336.

FACAR has this info in Debug mode 1:
Crop (36,8,552,344)
Resize (432,344)
Borders (24,72,24,64)

If I'm understanding this correctly, according FACAR's cropping, it's cutting off much more from the sides (552 as opposed to 618 with AutoFit). This is why the CBS logo is much closer to the edge of the screen. My goal is to try to set FACAR up so the resulting cropping and resizing are closer to AutoFitCD's results. Changing the overscan V & H settings don't seem to change the results of the cropping, only the transparency overlay and that lines up perfectly with my .03 OverscanH and .05 OverscanV. If you any suggestions, r6d2, that would be great. Thanks.


/.Add Anymore FACAR questions I will put them in the appropriate thread. Sorry about putting it here. It STARTED off as a D2SRoba question. :p

[Gideon25]

Originally posted by DDogg
Gideon25,

The user never touches bitrate in d2sroba/d2v, you would only adjust the cd size downward in d2sroba. That will force the Q upward. Try 545 or 725. Using DVD mode or SVCD mode/1 disk with a specified size may be better for you for this usage. Since the eps should have similar charateristics, after a little experimentation you should be able to reuse the size for every encode. 4350/8 ~ 545 so you may be able to get 8 on one DVD. Try one and see where the Q falls. If too high (over 32) then try 725 (4350/6)

/add: to kick d2sroba into dvd mode. Open D2s, select misc tab, click dvd and exit. Then when d2sroba is run, it will come up in dvd mode.

No, it HAS to be in SVCD mode as all of these are PAL->NTSC conversions and there has to be an "Audio encoding after video" option in order to do the one click method I devised (as well as to batch process these). Hrm, since there are 26 episodes per season and I don't want to put different season episodes together then it seems like 7 would be the best amount as I only have to use 4 dvds for one season. I will stick with SVCD and choose 1 cd and lower the bitrate down to 545 and see how low I can go, Thanks :)

EDIT: 545=Q of 23!! Episode is a perfect copy (at least to my eyes)!
It looks like I should be able to go down to about cd size 495 and that would mean 9 episodes per dvd! Thats 6 1/2 hours on ONE dvd! How can this be?!

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Is 4 disks a max? ; Compute total bitrates and sizes for up to 4 CDs
$first = 1
$last = 4Yes. AFAIK there is no actual reason to restrict this. Just common experience. Tylo might want to lift this limit but it would be a very unlikely event you to need more that 4 media.

However, it is really useful, for instance, when you encode as SVCD a bunch of renumbered VOBs for episodes, all in a row, and cut afterwards with an authoring tool. Much more straightforward than doing it one by one, and besides you get an even Q for all the pieces.

I did this when I encoded the 12 Chaplin Mutual shorts, but because of the 4 media limit I had to use DVD2DVD mode.
I removed my guess about a 2350 bitrate ceiling and will wait on the response.Actually I thought later that this was exactly the reason for such a Q limit. By unchecking adjust BR on D2Sroba you are not telling CCE the limits are meant to be free. It just uses the ones specified in DVDSVCD, forcing a sort of false maxed out output.

I suggest you to try this: Check adjust BR in D2Sroba, set a high limit as per my Poor Man's DVD guide, lower the threshold to 120 and use the new version 3.3.3. Also don't forget to tell DVD2SVCD to ignore BR limits.

BTW, I see you're using 2.50, do you recommend it instead of 2.6x?

[DDogg]

r6d2, I did some edits and adds above. The telepathy must have been working because I stumbled upon boosting the BR :)

it would be a very unlikely event you to need more that 4 media. Actually to do what I want to do with 545 meg segments I would routinely use up to 8 (4350/8).

BTW, I see you're using 2.50, do you recommend it instead of 2.6x? Not particularly, I'm shifting back and forth until my subconscious tells me something.

Tell me your thoughts about adapting SVCD auto disk mode into DVD auto-increment mode. It would be a fairly simple (I think) additional feature in DVD mode that would simply let a DVD user specify increment size. 545 would probably be the one most used as that would an 1/8 DVD segment. Then encodes would always achieve the desired Q without wasting space by crossing a segment border if the conditional test passed. If tylo is not interested, then the user could do it in SVCD mode so long as more disk increments were added. It just would not be as elegant. The one thing I am requesting be considered is bumping up the possible number of disks to 8. Everything else is arguably an individual enthusiasm.

[Gideon25]

I have a question for Tylo. During batch processing is it possible for it to use the settings that are in the D2Sroba.ini file like normal? I just noticed while playing around with the batch stuff that for some reason the default settings are always applied and d2sroba ignores the D2Sroba.ini file :/


Here is an example of of what I have in my batch file:

Start "" /WAIT "D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\d2sroba.exe" -batch Start /WAIT "D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2SVCD.exe" -d2s:"E:\DVDfiles\1\dvd2svcd project file.d2s" -run -exit

etc..
That setup does run the batch process but for some reason it ignores the D2sroba.ini file and proceeds with the default settings as if I have no ini file. What can I do?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Gideon25
That setup does run the batch process but for some reason it ignores the D2sroba.ini file and proceeds with the default settings as if I have no ini file.I have also observed this, but randomly. Sometimes it uses it, sometimes not.

I never reported it though because almost all the time my settings for D2Sroba are the same. :) But I think indeed it is a bug.

[Gideon25]

Originally posted by r6d2
I have also observed this, but randomly. Sometimes it uses it, sometimes not.

I never reported it though because almost all the time my settings for D2Sroba are the same. :) But I think indeed it is a bug.

Unfortunately its doing it EVERYTIME for me :(
This is forcing me to have to single encode every file I have (I have around 100 to encode), bummer :(
I know how to do it in dvd2svcd without using D2sroba but I MUST use d2sroba. Its become a must use app for me :P

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Gideon25
I know how to do it in dvd2svcd without using D2sroba but I MUST use d2sroba.It will probably be fixed, but think of what I said. It makes little sense to customize your D2Sroba settings differently for every movie. The underlying beauty of this app is that it contains the decision criteria you like most, in order to free you from many decisions you'd have to do with every encode.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Tell me your thoughts about adapting SVCD auto disk mode into DVD auto-increment mode.@DDogg, I haven't forgotten your request. I'm just trying to make sense out of it before asking something that turns you again into CAPS mode. :)

[Gideon25]

Originally posted by r6d2
It will probably be fixed, but think of what I said. It makes little sense to customize your D2Sroba settings differently for every movie. The underlying beauty of this app is that it contains the decision criteria you like most, in order to free you from many decisions you'd have to do with every encode.

Thats not what I am talking about. Try this: REMOVE your D2SRoba.ini file from the /tylo folder. Now start up d2sroba. See the DEFAULT settings (the very first settings used when you first install D2sroba and there is no ini file). THOSE are the ones that are used during my attempts to batch REGARDLESS of my settings. I only want to use ONE set of "settings" for all the files I need to batch encode. I don't require different settings for each file I need to encode. In other words I can't change ANYTHING whatsoever, whatever changes I make to the configuration is ignored and instead the default program settings are used. For instance I need all of my files to be 515 MB each so I set the cd size to 515 MB. D2Sroba doesn't seem to care about that during batch conversions. It uses the default of 800MB for cd size instead.:angry: . I need it to be 515 in order to fit a specific amount of episodes one one dvd. The way its working rfor me now I can't control the size of the file AT ALL- its ALWAYS set to 800 cd size. D2Sroba needs to be able to read the D2sroba.ini file during batch conversions to see that I want the cd size of 515, NOT 800 (which is the program default). Its not doing it for some reason :(

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Gideon25
Try this: REMOVE your D2SRoba.ini file from the /tylo folder. Now start up d2sroba.OK, I get it now. It is not exactly the problem I noticed. I've seen D2Sroba ignore the local INI file, but use the default.

There's something that calls my attention from your batch file. I think something is missing.

Try this: Start a real DVD batch rip with D2Sroba/DVD2SVCD and let it build the batch file. Then try to mimic the syntax.

I think there should be a call to the specific D2Sroba INI file on the batch line, IIRC.

[Gideon25]

Originally posted by r6d2
OK, I get it now. It is not exactly the problem I noticed. I've seen D2Sroba ignore the local INI file, but use the default.

There's something that calls my attention from your batch file. I think something is missing.

Try this: Start a real DVD batch rip with D2Sroba/DVD2SVCD and let it build the batch file. Then try to mimic the syntax.

I think there should be a call to the specific D2Sroba INI file on the batch line, IIRC.

No, I just did a rip and the batch file is fine. Perhaps its because I am trying to encode from avi? Dvd2svcd can do avi batch encodes JUST FINE so why does d2sroba have a problem with it? Its not like it would be that difficult to simply tell d2sroba to LOOK for an ini file in the output folder and USE it when converting avi files. Or better yet if there IS no D2sroba.ini file in the output folder, if not THEN use the one in the main D2sroba folder! Its like D2sroba checks to see if its dvd files its converting and if it is THEN it checks to see if there is a d2sroba.ini file in the output folder. Why not do a check for ALL batchs period regardless of whether or not we originally got them from a dvd? Considering one can't do an automatic avi Pal->ntsc conversion with dvd2svcd(it appears the author is biased or something towards pal-it would NOT be that difficult to do that)I was able to figure out a way to do a one click method using D2sroba, but now I can't batch encode them :( I also made sure there was a d2sroba.ini file in each output folder.... So I can do batch encodes of avi's using dvd2svcd BUT I have to stop and jump thru hoops each time in order to convert Pal->ntsc (due to a refusal to implement it automatically I guess) and I can do an automatic one click conversion of avi pal-->ntsc using D2sroba but I can't seem to get the batch function working with it.
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Ah well, perhaps Tylo has a workaround/fix.

[ralphthedog]

Had a little incident with the new D2SRoBa (3.3.2) in DVD mode.....Whenever requant runs I am getting Encoded_video_CCE_PAL.mpv files that are read only, which brings DVD2SVCD to a screaming halt when it restarts for DVD authoring. When I uncheck read only on the file and recover, the process finishes no problems.

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.3.2, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.101.0
- 2004-03-19 12:37:17
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4470
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Adjust Q : 0.9
- Sizing pass : Yes (Transcode if opv sz > 0.1% from target, and Q <= 32)
(Encode if opv sz < -2.0% from target, or Q > 32)
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Avisynth setup: BilinearResize with Undot
- Setting low process priority
- Using CCE version 2.67
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:45:33 (158332 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 5337 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 3168
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=5337 (5337) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4225089420 fill=100% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 5337 (max 9200) kbps, size=4225089420 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 2556 (Q=32, err=-52.1%, size=2023576320, sample sz=40488908)
- Estim. mpv BR : 6386 (Q=6, err=19.7%, size=5055990367, sample sz=101163236)
- Estim. mpv BR : 4481 (Q=13, err=-16%, size=3547956633, sample sz=70989608)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5117 (Q=10, err=-4.1%, size=4051581538, sample sz=81066432)
- Estim. mpv BR : 5410 (Q=9, err=1.4%, size=4282898592, sample sz=85694760)
- Determined Q : 8 = round(9 - 0.9 + (1.4)/5.5)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-19 12:50:51
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 8)
- OPV pass result: 102.9% on target (4346033856 / 4225089420) Speed factor: 1.2
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-19 14:19:02
- Start transcoding (Requant 97.22%)
- Transcoding pass result: 100% on target (4224887067 / 4225089420) Speed factor: 12.26
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-19 14:27:40
- Recover DVD2SVCD


(DVD2SVCD log)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 19/03/2004 2:29:20 PM
- Free on drive D: 14557.53 mb
- Creating DVD-Image using Sonic Scenarist
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating Sonic Scenarist Script file
File access denied Access is denied
--------------------------------------------------------
- 19/03/2004 2:30:13 PM
- Free on drive D: 14557.53 mb
- Crash Recovery
- Restarting from: Muxing and Cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
- 19/03/2004 2:30:16 PM
- Free on drive D: 14557.53 mb
- Creating DVD-Image using Sonic Scenarist
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating Sonic Scenarist Script file
Executing Sonic Scenarist
Closing program
Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 19/03/2004 3:01:41 PM
- Free on drive D: 1169.38 mb
- Conversion done!
--------------------------------------------------------
[edited for size of log]
Otherwise, fabulous.......great work @Tylo and everyone else involved.

[DDogg]

@DDogg, I haven't forgotten your request. I'm just trying to make sense out of it before asking something that turns you again into CAPS mode. :D Not to worry about it. After sleeping on it, I think it is too "one off" to justify any work on tylo's part and potentially it could introduce new bugs which is not a good idea at this stage.

I do think increasing the possible number of disks to 6 or 8, would be useful for me and others if it was not a major deal to do it.

@tylo, can you grey the conditional in DVD mode? Can you grey the Auto Q and Max Q in SVCD size mode? Does autoit allow that dynamically? By that, I mean when somebody selects a size [# of disks] instead of auto [or "?"], can you make them go grey?

[dimirass]

Had a little incident with the new D2SRoBa (3.3.2)AND (3.3.3) in DVD mode.....Whenever requant runs I am getting Encoded_video_CCE_PAL.mpv files that are read only, which brings DVD2SVCD to a screaming halt when it restarts for DVD authoring. When I uncheck read only on the file and recover, the process finishes no problems.

I have also noticed the same like ralphthedog ...
The only problem in that enhancement is the demand for 4GB more of precious free hard disk space...

Many thanks to tylo and all the others who keep developing this great tool...

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Can you grey [...] Max Q in SVCD size mode?Mybe I mislead you to ask for this. When I said Tylo "sort of dropped" Max Q in size modes I meant that he no longer uses it as a start point for search, but he still uses it. Remember the purpose of Max Q in range mode is to limit the possible solutions to the "how many media" problem.

[windtrader]

I tried D2SRoba with transcode on and used Adjust Q of -0.2 and Q>50. The second pass was invoked based on Q of 69, so no transcoding but a CCE VBR step. All logs are rared up and attached.

The final DVD came in oversized for some reason. 4 * 1,073,709,056 + 414,257,152.

Never had an oversized result before but never tried negative adjust Q either. I thought lower Adust Q would make sure the disc was going to be more undersized. I had been getting usually slightly oversized so I thought I would try to tune it closer by lower Adjust Q.

I am also rerunning with a Adjust Q of +.5 to see what happens.

--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.3.3, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.100.0
- 2004-03-19 21:55:22
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : DVD
- CD size : 4480
- Number of CD's : 1
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Adjust Q : -0.2
- Sizing pass : Yes (Transcode if opv sz > 0.0% above target, and Q <= 50)
(Encode if opv sz < -3.0% from target, or Q > 50)
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : No
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Avisynth setup: FACAR
- Setting low process priority
- Using CCE version 2.67
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 02:41:20 (290123 frames, 29.97 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (448 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 3338 kbps, 1 CDs
- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 5808
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=3338 (3338) audio1_br=448 video_sz=4039166558 fill=100% cbr=0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 1
- Target mpv BR : 3338 (max 9000) kbps, size=4039166558 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:
- Estim. mpv BR : 5592 (Q=32, err=67.5%, size=6767231667, sample sz=135473856)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3421 (Q=67, err=2.5%, size=4140374905, sample sz=82886560)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3384 (Q=68, err=1.4%, size=4095102330, sample sz=81980244)
- Estim. mpv BR : 3348 (Q=69, err=0.3%, size=4052102784, sample sz=81119432)
- Determined Q : 69 = round(69 - -0.2 + (0.3)/1.1)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-19 22:43:23
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 69)
- OPV pass result: 99.3% on target (4009882052 / 4039166558) Speed factor: 1.22
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-20 00:55:54
- Start VBR sizing pass (3338 kbps)
- Sizing pass result: 100% on target (4037392512 / 4039166558) Speed factor: 1.24
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-03-20 03:06:03
- Recover DVD2SVCD

WNASPI32.DLL 4.6.0.1021
--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/19/2004 9:58:27 PM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2DVD ver. 1.2.2 build 1 BETA 16
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
No subtitles found, skipping subtitle analyze
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_6.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_7.vob
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/19/2004 9:58:31 PM
- Free on drive G: 42537.81 mb
- Internal rip
--------------------------------------------------------
Preparing vobfiles to be ripped:
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_6.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_7.vob

Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_6.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_7.vob
Ripping finished. Speed: 6192

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/19/2004 10:15:57 PM
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVIdg.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -OM=0 -EXIT -OF=[G:\dvd2dvd\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_1.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_2.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_3.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_4.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_5.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_6.vob,G:\dvd2dvd\VTS_01_7.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film NOT activated!
Framerate: 29970
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/19/2004 10:19:18 PM
- Free on drive G: 36217.52 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: G:\dvd2dvd\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/19/2004 10:25:25 PM
- Free on drive G: 35700.53 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 4682829788
AudioSectors: 549549308
VideoPAPO: 64026720
ScanOffsetBytes: 435185
SeqAligningBytes: 27658393
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 0.00
PureMPEGStream: 4041160178.83
Seconds: 9682.45
CalcMPEGStream: 4041160178.83
Frames: 290123
CDSize: 4480.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 4476.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 290123
Anti Noise Filter: Off
Passes: 3
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: One Pass VBR
Q. Factor: 33
Min. bitrate: 1000
Max. bitrate: 3338
Aspect Ratio: Anamorphic (no borders, encoded as 16:9)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2DV~1\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~2.DLL")
MPEG2Source("G:\dvd2dvd\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
ResizeTo=0 global ResizeMethod=1 DebugMode=0
GammaCorrection=1.0 Hue=0 Saturation=1.0 Brightness=0 Contrast=1.0
DetectedTop=6 DetectedHeight=464
OverscanH=0.00 OverscanV=0.00 BlockOptimization=0 AsoTV=1
global Bicubic_b_Value=0 global Bicubic_c_Value=0.6
DestinationWidth=720
DestinationHeight=480
DestinationTop=0
DestinationBottom=0
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\SimpleResize\SimpleResize.dll")
# Import("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\qmf15b1.avs")
# Import("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\QMF_functions.avs")
# Import("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\PreResize.avs")
Import("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\FACAR.avs")
# Import("C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\FACAR\PostResize.avs")
Import("G:\dvd2dvd\ResampleAudio.avs")
ResampleAudio(44100)
ConvertToYUY2()
----AVS End----

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/20/2004 3:06:07 AM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2DVD ver. 1.2.2 build 1 BETA 16
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
No subtitles found, skipping subtitle analyze
-
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/20/2004 3:06:08 AM
- Free on drive G: 31415.47 mb
- Restarting from: Muxing and Cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/20/2004 3:06:10 AM
- Free on drive G: 31415.47 mb
- Multiplexing Audio and Video
--------------------------------------------------------
Executing MPlex. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\DVDAuthor\mplex.exe" -f 8 -o "G:\dvd2dvd\MPlex_Muxed_File00.mpg" "G:\dvd2dvd\Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv" "G:\dvd2dvd\Extracted_audio_1.ac3"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/20/2004 3:18:59 AM
- Free on drive G: 26924.52 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: G:\dvd2dvd\MPlex_Muxed_File00.mpg
9678.940 seconds G:\dvd2dvd\MPlex_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing finished.

Saving Subtitle Timecodes.
SVCD subtitles.
Length of G:\dvd2dvd\MPlex_Muxed_File00.mpg
9678
--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/20/2004 3:21:28 AM
- Free on drive G: 26924.52 mb
- Authoring DVD
--------------------------------------------------------
Executing DVDAuthor. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2DVD-Beta\DVDAuthor\dvdauthor.exe" -x "G:\dvd2dvd\DVDAuthor.xml"
Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 3/20/2004 3:38:16 AM
- Free on drive G: 22433.22 mb
- Conversion done!
--------------------------------------------------------

[bobwillis]

Hi windtrader,

I have had very slight oversizes before with a couple of movies. The oversize was typically upto 10MB. Therefore, I use a target of 4470MB in order to prevent this (I burn on -R); and very occasionally get something above 4483MB (+ limit) but less than 4489MB (- limit). I think a fail safe for +R would be around 4465MB.

I see from your log, "Sizing pass result: 100% on target (4037392512 / 4039166558)". I would conclude from this that D2SRoBa & CCE did their job correctly. Therefore, I doubt if these rare oversizes are anything to do with D2SRoBa or CCE, more the fact that the target figures provided by DVD2DVD are approximate and contain slight error.

Regards,
Bob

[windtrader]

Thanks Bob,

I'm burning on -R as well so I'll back the target size down to 4470mb from now on. It's just I've not had this oversize problem before. The file 9,093,376 bytes over so the 4470 mb target would have covered this oversize. Thanks for the tip.

EDIT - The same run with 4470 worked fine, making it under the DVD limit. It has me thinking about tweaking target size so I can define a minus to plus range in DVD2DVD and hopefully bypass the second encode/transcode step. Right now anything > 100% ends up going to second pass.
Don

[tylo]

Lot's of responses - great :) Here's some answers.

1. Max. num of CDs are 4. Easy to extend to e.g. 20.

2. Use of D2SRoBa.ini: The intention was that when 'Rip only' is selected both in D2SRoBa and D2S, the D2SRoBa.ini file is copied to the output folder, and used as ini file when it is run as batch. It worked at some point, but I haven't tested it since (will check). Also, if D2SRoBa.ini is not present in the output dir, I'll make sure it uses the global D2SRoBa.ini.

3. I find it strange that Requant.exe makes the output (e.g. Encoded_video_CCE_PAL.mpv) read-only? Surely, I will unset the read-only flag on that file after the transcoding (if that's the problem).
@tylo, can you grey the conditional in DVD mode? Can you grey the Auto Q and Max Q in SVCD size mode? Does autoit allow that dynamically? By that, I mean when somebody selects a size [# of disks] instead of auto [or "?"], can you make them go grey?It's possible, yes. May involve some work, so we'll see..

[Gideon25]

Originally posted by tylo

2. Use of D2SRoBa.ini: The intention was that when 'Rip only' is selected both in D2SRoBa and D2S, the D2SRoBa.ini file is copied to the output folder, and used as ini file when it is run as batch. It worked at some point, but I haven't tested it since (will check). Also, if D2SRoBa.ini is not present in the output dir, I'll make sure it uses the global D2SRoBa.ini.



Can you make sure it uses the main D2sroba.ini file if its not in the output folder REGARDLESS of whether or not "rip only" is selected? In addition in avi mode it should also try to look for a D2sroba.ini file in the output folder first. It IGNORES that as well if its not in dvd to mode. This would allow me to use the batch function with AVI. I KNOW the batch function works fine with avi its just that D2sroba will only use default settings (and ignore the main d2sroba.ini file as well as any ini file in the output folder)making batch for avi usless as the settings are ignored :P I am sure its only as simple as telling D2Sroba to look for the ini file and use it for batch regardless of what settings we choose. Thanks!

[NuroPreak]

I got another question for you wizzards out their ;)

why can't i get D2SRoba to work with CCE 2.67 or 2.66 i'm always gettin 1 CD instead of 3 cds you saw the log before.. and tylo said to report back.. so i do, i started all over not once not twice i tried everything even reinstalling all CCE , d2s and the rest

now i thought lets try CCE 2.5 and what the heck it seems to be working now.. :confused: atleast its atm encoding so i'm hoping everything will be ok. but it looks promising.. what i don't get is if you look at the log below you will see it takes a sample from - Sample frames : 147433, witch is the whole movie. And i selected it should take 2% of the movie as sample.. :confused:

btw normally i'm using FACAR but i donno if that is possible aswell when converting from divx to svcd with permanent external subtitles and the source needs to be from NTSC to PAL converted. Hope you will solve my questions, here is the part of D2SRoba.

Ow 1 more thing it happend also alot, when it was done doing the first encode [donno how to call it but i mean if its done with CCE the first time, sometimes it hangs when it ganna do the seccond *thing*. I mean you will see an open .cls in CCE but the D2SRoba script isn't filling in the location of the file, i tried to solve it clicking the smile and select pause. But it didn't worked. If you guys donno where i'm talking about ill post a screenshot next time it will happen.


--------------------------------------------------------
D2SRoBa v3.3.3, by Tylo
--------------------------------------------------------
- WIN_XP - AutoIt 3.0.100.0
- 2004-03-22 17:05:07
--------------------------------------------------------
Settings:
- Output type : SVCD
- CD size : 800
- Number of CD's : auto
- Sample percent : 2.0
- Auto Q / Max Q : 35 / 40
- Adjust Q : 0.5
- Sizing pass : Yes (Transcode if opv sz > 0.4% above target, and Q <= 40)
(Encode if opv sz < -3.0% from target, or Q > 40)
- Cut last image : If opv sz > 0.4% oversized
- Audio after video : Yes (9% of video, min 224 kbps)
- Cond. filtering : If enabled and est. oversize < 10%
- Adjust max br : Yes (total: 2754, max avg offset: 300 kbps)
- Clean previous : Yes
- Crash recover : Yes
--------------------------------------------------------
- Waiting for CCE window ...
- Detected a CCE encode window
- Detected the CCE main movie encode window... trying to kill it.
- Finished shutdown of CCE and D2S
- Avisynth setup: BicubicResize
- Using CCE version 2.50
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 01:38:17 (147433 frames, 25 fps)
- D2S audio brate : (224 + 0) kbps
- D2S video estim. : 1980 kbps, 2 CDs- Estim. mpv BR : 1492 (Q=35, err=?%, size=1100572976, sample sz=1100572976)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Number of CDs : 2
- Target mpv BR : 1980 (max 2530) kbps, size=1459586700 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------
Search for Q:

- Select Ranges : every 600, select 12 frames
- Sample frames : 147433
--------------------------------------------------------
Calculations:
- 1 CD: video_br=870 (870) audio1_br=224 video_sz=641333550 fill=100% cbr=0
- 2 CD: video_br=1980 (1980) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1459586700 fill=100% cbr=0
- 3 CD: video_br=2530 (3090) audio1_br=224 video_sz=1865027450 fill=83.2% cbr=1
--------------------------------------------------------
Computing target number of CDs:
- Using max bitrate=2530 for auto sample (adjusted for 2 CDs)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by NuroPreak
btw normally i'm using FACAR but i donno if that is possible aswell when converting from divx to svcd with permanent external subtitles and the source needs to be from NTSC to PAL converted.FACAR only knows about NTSC/PAL PAR sources. It won't handle square pixel AVIs.

Also, I don't know if this is the cause in your case, but when restarting, I always delete the Video folder (except Resampleaudio.avs). Some D2Sroba versions used to get dizzy otherwise and I don't know if it was fixed, so better safe than sorry.

[NuroPreak]

Originally posted by NuroPreak
[B]Ow 1 more thing it happend also alot, when it was done doing the first encode [donno how to call it but i mean if its done with CCE the first time, sometimes it hangs when it ganna do the seccond *thing*. I mean you will see an open .cls in CCE but the D2SRoba script isn't filling in the location of the file, i tried to solve it clicking the smile and select pause. But it didn't worked. If you guys donno where i'm talking about ill post a screenshot next time it will happen.


well it happend again so here is the screenshot

http://members.lycos.nl/tristandoornebosch/D2SRoba2.JPG

[DDogg]

tylo, this is a nice present to wake up to. You have certainly set a new standard for the word "perseverance"!

What do you guys think about starting a new thread with tylo's post above that indicates a feature freeze and is dedicated to any last minute problems (if any)that crop up before a formal v3.4.0 release? Let me know if you agree.

BTW, hats off to r6d2 and manolito for proposing the auto-conditional and transcoding features. They are great! I publicly apologize for thinking both of you were nutty as a fruitcake :D

tylo, also please check your PM for a hypothetical question regarding the new additional segments.

/add: Very nice the way you did the graying of the unused inputs. Looks sharp and professional and makes it much more intuitive.

[maSp]

What do you guys think about starting a new thread with tylo's post above that indicates a feature freeze and is dedicated to any last minute problems (if any)that crop up before a formal v3.4.0 release? Let me know if you agree.

100%

Cheers.

[DDogg]

D2SRoBa is now in final RC status and a feature freeze is in effect. Please test and report.

New thread started HERE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73243)