Help with Creating DTS for DVD (was: Worse than a Newbie)

[Blast]

Ok Folks, first let me say I apologize if this post is in the wrong place. If it doesn’t belong here, feel free to move it.

I am not a newbie,,,,,,,,,,,its worse,,,,,,,,,,,I am pre-natal,,,,,,,,,,maybe even just a “sparkle in my father’s eye” at this point.

Here is my goal.

Home movies, (waterfowl hunting), on DVD with three audio set-up options.

Dolby Digital Stereo
Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround
DTS

Objectives to reach goal
Produce 6ch surround audio cd or DVD
Produce DTS audio cd and/or DVD.

My Equipment and Proggies.


1.5 P4 cpu
512 DDR Ram
Win XP Home
OP System HD 40 GIG
Video Storage HD 80 GIG
Radeon 7000 64 Mg video card
TI 1394 IEEE Host controller
Creative SB Live audio card
LG CD-RW cd burner
Sony DRU 510A, +R –R +RW –RW DVD burner


Proggies Proficiency

Adobe Premiere Pro- Advanced
Adobe MPEG encoder- beginner
Adobe Audition- pre-natal
Adobe After-Effects 5.5- pre-natal
Adobe Encore DVD 1.0- beginner
Cool Edit Pro- pre-natal
TMPGEnc DVD Author- Intermediate
TMPGEnc Plus 2.5- Intermediate
Sur-code DVD DTS- pre-natal
BeSweet- pre-natal
AC3machine- pre-natal
Bidule- pre-natal
B-pan Ambisonic Encoder- pre-natal
B-Proc Ambisonic B-Format Processor- pre-natal
Emigrator- pre-natal
R8Brain 1.6- pre-natal

Probably some more but that’s enough I think.

My dilemma,

This is the part of the post that may not belong here as it is more of an architecture question, but, non the less, I need help with the physical location and how to output the audio from Premiere Pro and to what application would be the most help. Stereo is no problem, but going to 5.1 or DTS has me buffaloed (perplexed for non English speaking folks)

Premiere Pro, for those of you who don’t know is Adobe’s Non-linear video editor.
When I capture my duck hunting footage, I import a stereo audio track from the camera. I usually have a background score as well. That gives me 2 stereo tracks.
I want the flexibility to move the sounds of the hunting track around in the video and enhance the wind noise for example in the surround tracks or the sound of the ducks circling the blind (their wings make quite a bit of sound and I want to track it.
I have tried to be a good newbie and read all I could about the transcoding (I hope I am using the correct terminology), of stereo signals. I have downloaded the stereo to surround conversion, but I am struggling with BeSweet to get the 6 ch mono files. Sur-Code will not let me import the file because it is 6ch and not a true mono file. I am confident I am doing things wrong here and will re-read.

I guess what I need first is help with the first objective DTS DVD I apologize again if this is SOOOOO newbie to most of you but I do appreciate you reading THIS far. (smile).
Since I don’t have a grasp of this yet, is it proper to ask for help walking me through this process step by step, or would this be better off the forum and done in PM’s?
I know that any response will take a lot of typing and I again, appreciate the help.

Blast

[KpeX]

Hi Blast, and welcome to Doom9's forums.

First of all, you'll want to take another look at the forum rules you agreed to when you registered for the board. The most glaring violation is #9, using a title that clearly describes your question. Additionally, asking this many questions in one thread will get you nowhere - AV conversion is far from simple, and in my humble opinion you need to take it step by step to have any chance at success.

Secondly, the answers you want are out there. (x-files anyone...) The search button is your best friend, and you're on a good track with the ambisonics guide to surround sound. There are other methods for upmixing to surround sound, some simpler than ambisonics, a search will help in this aspect too.

As far as the DTS goes, that's a tough thing for someone new to this. Here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55590&highlight) is a thread which might be of interest if you can handle command-line interface tools. It also sounds like you need to extract 6 mono .wavs from the multichannel wave, BeSplit (http://dspguru.doom9.net) is the tool you want for that task.

Wrapping up, I'd recommend you read over the stickies here in the audio encoding forum carefully, there are many answers in there. Also I'd try renaming your thread (click 'edit' and change the post subject) with a more descriptive title, and narrowing down your question to a specific problem you're at right now. You're in the right place to get the knowledge you need, and we're here to help, but it's going to require a lot of work on your part too. Good luck and I hope this helps,

[Blast]

[B]Hi Blast, and welcome to Doom9's forums.

(Preeshate cha,,,,,,,thats Texan for "Thanks")


First of all, you'll want to take another look at the forum rules you agreed to when you registered for the board. The most glaring violation is #9, using a title that clearly describes your question.

(It was more "tongue in cheek" than anything as the "title" was not a question at ALL.)

Additionally, asking this many questions in one thread will get you nowhere -

(I didn't ask that many, you may want to re-read. I KNOW it takes a step at a time. I made the observations to get EVERYBODY on board.
I made some observations of which, I need guidance. In conclusion I noted that:
"I guess what I need first (first is key here)is help with the first objective DTS DVD I apologize again if this is SOOOOO newbie to most of you but I do appreciate you reading THIS far. (smile).")

AV conversion is far from simple, and in my humble opinion you need to take it step by step to have any chance at success.

(See above.)

Secondly, the answers you want are out there. (x-files anyone...) The search button is your best friend, and you're on a good track with the ambisonics guide to surround sound. There are other methods for upmixing to surround sound, some simpler than ambisonics, a search will help in this aspect too.

As far as the DTS goes, that's a tough thing for someone new to this. Here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55590&highlight) is a thread which might be of interest if you can handle command-line interface tools.

(I cant handle commmand line interface tools,,,,,,,,,YET! Even with the GUI's it's a struggle)

It also sounds like you need to extract 6 mono .wavs from the multichannel wave, BeSplit (http://dspguru.doom9.net) is the tool you want for that task.

(Exactly.)

Wrapping up, I'd recommend you read over the stickies here in the audio encoding forum carefully,

(Carefully is the key word. Some people learn from text better than others.)

there are many answers in there. Also I'd try renaming your thread (click 'edit' and change the post subject) with a more descriptive title, and narrowing down your question to a specific problem you're at right now.

(I did in closing.)

You're in the right place to get the knowledge you need, and we're here to help, but it's going to require a lot of work on your part too. I'm in or I would not have waited the "time out" for Newb's.

Good luck and I hope this helps,

(Thanks for your input I "preeshate it")

Blast

[KpeX]

(I didn't ask that many, you may want to re-read. I KNOW it takes a step at a time. I made the observations to get EVERYBODY on board.
I made some observations of which, I need guidance. In conclusion I noted that:
"I guess what I need first (first is key here)is help with the first objective DTS DVD I apologize again if this is SOOOOO newbie to most of you but I do appreciate you reading THIS far. (smile).")
I didn't understand this question entirely, that's why I was asking for more clarification - which part of the process are you having problems with ?

And please do some reading, there is a vast amount of knowledge out there, and the search button can answer questions immensely faster than I or anyone else can.

[Blast]

I didn't understand this question entirely, that's why I was asking for more clarification

(I can understand your observation, after re-reading it (the question) it is quite vague. I guess at this point I AM so new to this I need more information to ask intelligent questions.)

- which part of the process are you having problems with ?

(I THINK, first I need to get in my head clearly how, and to what level of "cleanliness", as I dont know how else to describe a high level audio file, to extract (again dont know what term to use) an ac3 mono file to import in to Surcode DTS-DVD.But to make it even more complicated I am not sure at what stage to do this. After I have finished the production of the video and export the audio files? So I need to understand the "nomenclature" of this whole process. Hence your advice to read more and try to get a handle of an intelligent question. I dont mean to be vague as it is iliteracy not lack of intelligence.)


And please do some reading, there is a vast amount of knowledge out there, and the search button can answer questions immensely faster than I or anyone else can.

(*puts on his reading hat*)

Thanks again
Blast

[daphy]

@ Blast

for English-speaking persons:

what is your problem

a. making ambisonics
b. splitting 6WAV-files
c. transcoding in DTS/AC3
d. authoring for DVD
e. ....


Sorry, but I´m tired reading 3~5 postings of complaining what the right way is to find answers...

As KPEX said: ask your questions (after unlucky search) else you get the answer '42' (like in 'hitchhiker through the galaxcy' :D )

CYA Daphy

[Blast]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by daphy
[B]@ Blast

for English-speaking persons:

(ummmm Daphy, Those of us that speak English know this is for us most of us can read it as well.)

what is your problem

(I dont have any problems, just opportunities to gain a little knowledge.)

a. making ambisonics
b. splitting 6WAV-files
c. transcoding in DTS/AC3
d. authoring for DVD
e. ....


(E,,,,,,,,,,none of the above. Apparantly posting a question after I express how much I dont know.)


Sorry, but I´m tired reading 3~5 postings of complaining what the right way is to find answer.

Wow,,,,,,,ummmm,,,,,,,quit reading post by newbies??? not sure what to tell you here I am tired of a lot of things. its a BIIIIGGGG chance to click on every new post, you just never know do ya?

Blast-Hates being new at something and having to go through this part.

[Umma]

Blast,

Here (http://mcgriffy.com/audio/ambisonic/vvmic/) is a windows based program that can help split those ambisonic files into six channels more easily. But I do not use the Emigrator in Bidule. Eye of Horus had this in his first procedure on creating dts CDs, but didn't really endorse it because it lacked a gain control. It now seems to have a gain control and works well for me. I just picks my tools as the mood strikes me...I still use Besweet, et. al.

If you want to make a dts DVD, I'm not sure that Encore can author that DVD for you. As far as I know, Maestro is the easiest DVD-authoring program that can handle dts without too much trouble. I have only recently been able to successfully put music dts onto a DVD with my own video, but it did take a while because there is no single guide to specifically walk someone through it (none that I could find, anyway :) ).

You are also talking of ducks flying overhead. Ambisonics probably won't help much here as you are now delving into sound effects. Panning sound effects is a horse of a whole 'nother color! Ambisonics will not really allow for discrete channels and allow, for example, ducks flying from the front left to the rear right speaker.

My suggestions: Clearly know your goal, then work your way up. Your highest level of proficiency is with Premiere. Start there and make the movie first. THEN work with Cool Edit and try to put in some sound FX and such (a gunshot...the death quack as the duck plummets to the ground...Born on the Bayou playing in the background... ;) )

Gotta get ready for work...My hat is off to ALL OF YOU who do not use English as a native language and who have to struggle through it to learn. I do not know any other language.

BTW, I hate being new at things, too. It's hard to know what to search for and when you use one term, you find something else that you have to search for and understand...next thing you know, you are four or five topics off the original. But they all build together and take you to the same place: your goal.

[daphy]

Wow,,,,,,,ummmm,,,,,,,quit reading post by newbies??? not sure what to tell you here I am tired of a lot of things.
its a BIIIIGGGG chance to click on every new post, you just never know do ya? :mad:

Are you shure to be here on the right place?

I think every one of this board is interested in getting/giving ideas and knowledge - in my opinion this is no place for initiate some flamings if the right answer can´t be given because of the lack of concret questions.


Back to subject...

Try out Steinberg Nuendo (1.61 or 2.01) - it´s a very complex multichannel editor - it also supports 6 mono WAV or AC3/DTS output as well as VST-Plugins. It also has utilities to mix those channels with effects (f.e. from other channels) or downmix.

Alternative:
there is a plugin for CoolEdit/Adition called Pan Handler, maybe this one is easier to use :confused:


If you ended up with a DTS/AC3 track try this guide (in parts) I posted in october (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=382295#post382295) - this should work, I´ve made many DTS DVDs. One thing might be easier to do as discribted in the guide: convert the 6 mono WAVs in 16 or 24 bit before transcode to DTS. Maybe then you can also use IFOEDIT 0.96 instead of Maestro for muxing (should this checkout myself :rolleyes: )

CYA Daphy ;)

[Blast]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Umma
Blast,

Here (http://mcgriffy.com/audio/ambisonic/vvmic/) is a windows based program that can help split those ambisonic files into six channels more easily.

(Thanks I will pursue)

If you want to make a dts DVD, I'm not sure that Encore can author that DVD for you. As far as I know, Maestro is the easiest DVD-authoring program that can handle dts [b]without too much trouble.

(Great info, thank-you.)


You are also talking of ducks flying overhead. Ambisonics probably won't help much here as you are now delving into sound effects. Panning sound effects is a horse of a whole 'nother color!

(I kind of figured as much. I didnt have a clue as to the mechanics of splitting the mono's. I am confident of panning the sound in PPro, with keyframes but keeping that pan across the mono's will be the test. I may just have to dupe the tracks and bring the volume up and down as I pan to raise the level of the particular sounds I want dominate in the particular track.)


My suggestions: Clearly know your goal, then work your way up. Your highest level of proficiency is with Premiere. Start there and make the movie first.

(Done for the most part now to play with the audio streams.)

...Born on the Bayou playing in the background... ;) )

((Grinnin'),,,,,,,,CCR good ole tunes!!!)

Gotta get ready for work...

(Thanks for all your input my friend I "preeshate cha")

BTW, I hate being new at things, too. It's hard to know what to search for and when you use one term, you find something else that you have to search for and understand...next thing you know, you are four or five topics off the original.

(EXACTLY. Thanks again.)

Blast

[Blast]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by daphy
[B]:mad:

Are you shure to be here on the right place?

(Daphy, Daphy, Daphy. )

I think every one of this board is interested in getting/giving ideas and knowledge - in my opinion this is no place for initiate some flamings if the right answer can´t be given because of the lack of concret questions.

(Daphy, You had a problem I had a solution!)

(Problem:
Sorry, but I´m tired reading 3~5 postings of complaining what the right way is to find answer)

(Solution:
Wow,,,,,,,ummmm,,,,,,,quit reading post by newbies??? not sure what to tell you here I am tired of a lot of things)

You use the term "Flaming". That is a BIG word here. Flaming is PERSONAL,,,, nothing and I repeat NOTHING in that reply was personal. You attempted to get personal with the word "complaining" or you have no clue what the word means. I wasn't complaining, and if you were not referring to me or this post, that comment is/was in the WRONG place. If you dont like the behavior of newbies DONT READ THEIR POST. This post was marked not newbies but even WORSE. So expect it to be incorrect in many ways.

Now back to the topic.


Try out Steinberg Nuendo (1.61 or 2.01) - it´s a very complex multichannel editor - it also supports 6 mono WAV or AC3/DTS output as well as VST-Plugins. It also has utilities to mix those channels with effects (f.e. from other channels) or downmix.

(Thank-you, How or what proggie do I use, to import DTS assets into a DVD authorer?)

Alternative:
there is a plugin for CoolEdit/Adition called Pan Handler, maybe this one is easier to use :confused:

(Good alternative to have, I need a few choices when I hit road blocks. )


If you ended up with a DTS/AC3 track try this guide (in parts) I posted in october (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=382295#post382295) - this should work, I´ve made many DTS DVDs.

(Now THAT, post was good read. Great info to start with and a lot of good feedback from the crew here. Thanks again.)

One thing might be easier to do as discribted in the guide: convert the 6 mono WAVs in 16 or 24 bit before transcode to DTS. Maybe then you can also use IFOEDIT 0.96 instead of Maestro for muxing (should this checkout myself :rolleyes: )

(Maybe I should look this up. Muxing is the term for what? getting an audio file READY for a given format or the transcoding of same?)

(Thanks for the input and the time it took to type it.)

Blast

[daphy]

Muxing is the term for what? getting an audio file READY for a given format or the transcoding of same?

simply:

f.e.

AVI + MP3 = AVI
M1V/M2V + MP2 = MPG (VCD/SVCD)

or

M2V/MPV + DTS + AC3 + MP2 + PCM + ... = VOB, BUP, IFO

CYA Daphy

(Let us stay on the subject - I am definitifly not tired reading newbies questions - I always do and mostly answer if I have a tip)