Why do people use DVD decrypter before DVD shrink?

[jawzforlife]

So I've made plenty of back ups. I use DVD decrypter for DVD-5 and DVDshrink for DVD-9 dics. When I'm doing a DVD-9 disc, I just open shrink and press the open disc buttom, it reads the disc, the I compress as needed and press back up. Then burn those files with nero.

My question is, did I skip a step. Do I need to dvd decrypt the disc to the hard drive first. I have never doen this step, And all my back-ups play fine. But I always see people doing this step. If it isnt needed why do people do it?

[Kedirekin]

I thinks it's really personal preference. From my point of view, using DVDDecrytper is partially convenience and partially avoiding headaches before they occur.

I sometimes do several passes using DVDShrink, trying different settings. It's more convenient to rip the disk once, then put it away and just work with a virtual drive copy (or with files if that is your preference).

Regarding the headaches, you might have noticed an occasional post about someone using DVDShrink and having problems decrypting a disk. The root cause can vary, but the solution is almost always the same - rip with DVDDecrypter; if Decrypter can't rip it, probably nothing can. From that realization, it isn't much of a leap to just decide to use Decrypter all the time.

And avoiding problems really boils down to convenience too. I typically rip the disk, then let DVDShrink run while I go off for several hours. If I ran Shrink direct from the DVD I might come back after 3 or 4 hours to find an error message. If I rip it first, the chance of wasting that 3 or 4 hours is vanishingly small.

[jawzforlife]

Ok, I see what you are saying. Use DVD decrypter first and you will have less problems when using DVD shrink. But I have never had one problem, when just reading straight from the disc in DVDshrink. Am I just one of the lucky few to be able to skip the DVD decrypter step with out any problems?

[Kedirekin]

Nah, the problems are probably pretty rare.

Based on the scarcity of problem posts, chances are you could do a couple hundred DVDs with little chance of seeing a problem (well, as long as they're clean and unscratched).

Hey, I never said it was a strong argument. It really is just personal preference.

[snidely]

if Decrypter can't rip it, probably nothing can. From that realization, it isn't much of a leap to just decide to use Decrypter all the time.

I must respectfully disagree here. After over 1000 rips, SmartRipper 2.41 has worked flawlessly in combination with IfoEdit 0.95 (to remove RCE protection and PUOs), while DVDDecrypter failed me twice in only 30 rips, once making the rip unusable (RCE removal of the Simpsons Season 2 set), and once putting on English subtitles by default (by improperly removing PUOs), so I continue to use SmartRipper, despite its lack of updates and popularity in this forum. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Based on the scarcity of problem posts, chances are you could do a couple hundred DVDs with little chance of seeing a problem (well, as long as they're clean and unscratched).

Agreed. The problem titles are few and far between, and if you want to have a high confidence level in the reliability of your rips, then either use SmartRipper as is or DVDDecrypter with the RC, RCE, and PUO options turned off in the settings dialog.

[Psychotourist]

Actually, I believe the options you say to turn off in DVDDecrypter have been addressed in version 3.1.7.0.

And most importantly, SmartRipper doesn't work with DVDStripper. ;)

[snidely]

Actually, I believe the options you say to turn off in DVDDecrypter have been addressed in version 3.1.7.0.

Cool! Did Lightning UK address both issues, or just the RCE removal? The last I heard, he had not admitted that there was a problem with PUO removal, but I have not checked lately.

And most importantly, SmartRipper doesn't work with DVDStripper.

But it should, as SmartRipper can rip from the hard drive, while DVDDecrypter can not. That lack of that functionality alone has caused me to put DVDStripper aside until the issue is addressed (and yes, I bought DVDStripper knowing it could only use DVDD anyway). Always having to rip from the DVD drive or an ISO image is an inconvenience I am not willing to live with.

[Psychotourist]

Well, I'm no longer having problems with the PUO's as in the past. And that is mentioned in the change log for the new version.

With the undo/restore features of DVDStripper's newest version, that has become much less of an issue for some. :)

[snidely]

Well, I'm no longer having problems with the PUO's as in the past.

So you have personally experienced these same problems, right? The more I discuss these issues, the more people come forward and admit that they have had similar problems. So why is DVDD so popular? Have you people just lived with these imperfections until a few weeks ago when 3.1.7.0 came out? And is it really fixed? Not to mention the obvious flaw (which remains) in the inability to rip from the hard drive. And since SmartRipper has produced flawless rips for the last three years, why isn't that the most popular program? :confused: I just don't get it. I guess the people in this forum actually enjoy having problems with their rips. :rolleyes:

Just in case I wasn't clear:

Over 1000 rips with SmartRipper and not even one single flaw or problem!

With the undo/restore features of DVDStripper's newest version, that has become much less of an issue for some.

Well, I guess that is an improvement, but the program still has a long way to go before I even consider it usable, and ripping from the hard drive is one of the absolute essentials I can and will not do without. This is not the place to discuss DVDStripper, though, so I will not make any more comments before earning a strike for breaking forum rules.

[t30t28t16t12]

I agree. The ability ripping from HD is extremely essential for my needs and SmartRipper has done a wonderful job accomplishing this task.

[Kedirekin]

Just to give an alternate viewpoint.

I used to use SmartRipper quite extensively. I like it. I think it's a good program. I'm really fond of its rather odd user interface; it's very learnable. But I would never claim it's flawless.

I've probably done fewer than 150 rips with SmartRipper, and I ran into 5 or 6 disks it simply could not rip. It especially seems to have a problem with really small title sets. Luckily I was able to rip those titles with vStrip.

I've done about the same number of rips with DVDDecrypter, and I haven't come across a title it couldn't rip. I too have had two titles where subtitles were turned on, but I consider that a pretty minor issue, and now I know how to avoid it (turn off PUO removal). I haven't had any titles where it messed up the region coding, but that sounds like a pretty uncommon problem, and again I now know how to avoid it.

In fact, both of these are fringe issues (they don't happen on many titles). DVDDecrypter is freeware; we can't expect LIGHTNING UK to test the program with every DVD in existence. He has to rely on us to tell him when there are issues, and he is responsive to fixing flaws.

So, both for the core function of ripping DVDs and for the ongoing support and development, I think DVDDecryter is the better program.


PS. I can't resist a little ribbing.

1,000 DVDs is a DVD every single day for nearly three years. I don't think SmartRipper has even existed for that long. Are you sure you aren't over-estimating how many DVDs you've ripped with SmartRipper?

[snidely]

I've probably done fewer than 150 rips with SmartRipper, and I ran into 5 or 6 disks it simply could not rip.

Can you give me the names of any of those discs? I would like to try them out for myself to see if SmartRipper really is at fault or if you just had a hard to read disc (scratched, blemished, etc.). I have yet to run into even a single disc the SR could not rip, and I've tried everything imaginable.

I too have had two titles where subtitles were turned on, but I consider that a pretty minor issue, and now I know how to avoid it (turn off PUO removal).

It's not minor to me. With the huge number of rips that I perform, I need to know that the rip will be perfect, and having subtitles on by default is not my idea of perfect.

I haven't had any titles where it messed up the region coding, but that sounds like a pretty uncommon problem, and again I now know how to avoid it.

This isssue has hopefully been repaired in 3.1.7.0...SmartRipper didn't need repairing.

Like I said earlier, you will probably be ok if you turn off the RC, RCE and PUO removal options and you use 3.1.7.0, but even now DVDD can't rip from the hard drive. Why not?

1,000 DVDs is a DVD every single day for nearly three years. I don't think SmartRipper has even existed for that long. Are you sure you aren't over-estimating how many DVDs you've ripped with SmartRipper?

I thought I was around 800 rips, but then I checked my records and found that the actual number is 1023 (as of last night). I average 12 rips a week and have done as many as 8 in a single day. I rotate titles on my 3 one terabyte servers (yes, that is 3 terabytes total :D ), so I keep pretty busy. :)

So rib me all you want. :) I'm the one who is smiling here, and for several good reasons...hehe.

There are only two really good arguments for using DVDD over SR that I can find:

1. DVDD can rip in ISO mode (but don't get me started, I think ISO rips are the biggest waste of time and resources).
2. SR doesn't seem to be under further development. But then again, it isn't broken. So why fix it if it ain't broke?

If you can provide me with a title that DVDD can rip that SR cannot, I will be more than willing to reconsider my position, but until that time, I stand firm. ;)

[Kedirekin]

Sorry, I haven't been keeping track, so I can't tell you which titles I had problems with.

I remember getting into a conversation over a year ago with LIGHTNING UK and another user about ripping from the hard drive. I recommended SmartRipper to the other user, but LIGHTNING basically thought it was a stupid thing to do. I don't think he understood that we were ripping to the hard drive, then IFO parsing from those ripped files (DVDDecrypter didn't have IFO parsing at the time). He kept saying it was stupid to copy the files to the hard drive, then rip (i.e. decrypt) them from there.

I came away from the conversation feeling that LIGHTNING was opinionated. He just thought we were idiots for even wanting to do it; he was unwilling even to agree to disagree (in other words, he really thought our position was just plain wrong).

Based on that, I don't think LIGHTNING will ever implement ripping from files on the hard drive. I don't think he'll implemnent something when he can't understand why anyone would need it - especially when ISO mode gives you pratically the same functionality.

It's not really important anyway. There's room on the planet for more than one tool, and there's no reason we can't mix and match.

BTW: I think ISO mode is great, and not just for DVD5 rip and burn. I don't expect to convince you though, so I'll write it off as personal preference. Also, because I've had some titles that SmartRipper couldn't decrypt, I do feel it is a little broken at the core. That said, it's IFO parsing from files on the hard drive remains a valuable tool (just as DVDDecrypter's IFO parsing from a mounted ISO is).

[snidely]

Kedirekin,

First let me say that it is a real pleasure to read your posts and now to have this nice, civil, intelligent, and informed conversation with you regarding the merits and problems with two very capable rippers. Its posts like these that actually lead to increased knowledge for everyone concerned, and as Martha Stewart would say "It's a good thing!" :)

I came away from the conversation feeling that LIGHTNING was opinionated.

In my limited conversations with him, I also came away with the same feeling. Even when I was basically able to prove that DVDD's PUO removal was broken:

Rip with SR and then remove PUOs with IfoEdit = success
Rip with DVDD with PUO removal turned on = failure

on the EXACT same physical DVD

(and BTW, IfoEdit was no longer able to fix the PUO removal after the DVDD rip)

he kind of brushed me off and accused me of blaming his program without proof. In his defense, though, he did quickly fess up to the RCE removal being broken and promised to fix it in 3.1.7.0. He claimed that the Simpsons Season 2 set was the first title to suffer from this problem, but not wanting to stir things up any further, I refrained from informing him that this was not correct. Several other members in my forum (AV Science) informed him of various problems, but rather than address them, he just told them to do as they wish because it didn't matter to him, and then he left and stopped posting.

BTW: I think ISO mode is great, and not just for DVD5 rip and burn. I don't expect to convince you though, so I'll write it off as personal preference.

I agree that it certainly is a matter of personal preference, but in my system all 26 drive letters (well, 25 - I don't use drive B: ) are all taken, so creating a virtual drive and mounting it is just another hassle that I don't need. I know that my case is not representative of the norm, but I still can't figure out why anyone would want to add the additional steps necessary to create, mount, and use ISO images, but what the heck, to each his own. :)

Also, because I've had some titles that SmartRipper couldn't decrypt, I do feel it is a little broken at the core.

Well, I obviously disagree :)

When the day comes that anyone provides me with even one title that I can not rip with SR (that DVDD successfully rips), then being an open minded person, I will adjust my thinking and my opinion accordingly. I guess we've both had different experiences, and our opinions reflect those differences. Who knows who is right and who is wrong, but I just wanted offer the forum members food for thought rather than to just blindly believe that DVDD was the "obviously superior program" and that SR had little or no value.

It's not really important anyway. There's room on the planet for more than one tool, and there's no reason we can't mix and match.

Amen, brother! Well said!

[Donn]

Hi there,

I have had problems with a few dvd's using SmartRipper. One of the most common problems I have had in my short time making DVD's is that SR seems to start off backing up a DVD title to the HD fine, and then just seems to get slower and slower, going to less than x1 speed and then seems to stop all together for some strange reason.
The first time this occurred I stopped SR and started again. However when it happened again I tried DVD Decrypter and that seemed to work fine. This problem has only occured 4 or 5 times, and SR is my first tool of choice, and it is only when that fails that I use DVDD.
A few weeks ago the backups to the HD went funny in that the program gave me a backup that Instantcopy wouldn't accept, and the same thing happened a second time. It was only when I used DVDD that the problem went away.

The above are a few of the problems I have had, and as I have stated above, the problems in general are few and far between. However when these problems do occur I simply use DVDD and that seems to sort these out.

Regards

Donn

[Psychotourist]

Well, for me the biggest reason I rarely use SmartRipper anymore versus DVDD is that in my case I've had a bit better luck with DVDD being able to rip very scratched, damaged DVD's (my nephews are just HORRIBLE with them - lol) rather than any other reason. And since I'm basically a movie only (well movie only with menu's now - thanks Mackem and TMG! :D ) person, I've rarely run into DVDD's "twitches" after my standard post-processing regimen with IfoEdit.

[snidely]

Well, for me the biggest reason I rarely use SmartRipper anymore versus DVDD is that in my case I've had a bit better luck with DVDD being able to rip very scratched, damaged DVD's

I have had a few badly scratched DVDs that would not rip, but when that happened, NONE of the rippers would successfully rip the disc, including the famous VStrip (these discs were actually cracked). Rippers can only be tenuous to a certain degree, and the hardware used (DVD ROM drive - I use Pioneer and Toshiba drives) can have as much of an impact on your success as the software itself. If the same hardware worked better with DVDD than SR, then that is a valid argument in favor of DVDD. I have not personally experienced this, but you may very well be correct. My solution was to obtain a better copy of the disc. :)

A few weeks ago the backups to the HD went funny in that the program gave me a backup that Instantcopy wouldn't accept, and the same thing happened a second time. It was only when I used DVDD that the problem went away.

Please, please provide an actual title name so that I can try this out for myself! Throughout this thread I have been begging someone to give me an actual title name that ripped correctly with DVDD that would not rip with SR, yet to this point no one has come forward with a name. I gave you the Simpsons Season 2 set as an example of improper RCE removal by DVDD, and the experiment is 100% repeatable (remember, that was using DVDD 3.1.6.0 - this should be fixed in 3.1.7.0).

[Psychotourist]

Yes, an individual's hardware is as important as the software. Even using DVDD, I had to use my burner rather than my Toshiba or other reader to be able to backup those bad discs. And a friend of mine has to let me back up his bad ones since his hardware combo doesn't work with either SR or DVDD. Since those were the copies that I own, I had to work with them rather than getting another copy. :D

And since apparently issues that I had with DVDD seem to be fixed in 3.1.7.0 (checking so far with discs that gave trouble in the past), the differences between the 2 have become a non-issue for me now.

[windtrader]

Please, please provide an actual title name so that I can try this out for myself! Throughout this thread I have been begging someone to give me an actual title name that ripped correctly with DVDD that would not rip with SR, yet to this point no one has come forward with a name.

Here you go! Maybe, just maybe... :devil:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64479

[Kedirekin]

Out of curiosity, how big is VTS_02_0.VOB on Finding Nemo and the Lion King SE? I don't have either of these DVDs (I think most Disney DVDs are over priced).

[Psychotourist]

That file is an 8KB blank on both of those titles.

[snidely]

I've done both The Lion King SE (a couple of weeks ago) and Finding Nemo (just yesterday) and both of them ripped using SmartRipper in less than 15 minutes and were absolutely perfect. Just out of curiosity, I tried the same two titles with DVDD 3.1.7.0 tonight and it also ripped them both perfectly, and DVDD was a few seconds faster. At least you are trying, Don! :)

Out of curiosity, how big is VTS_02_0.VOB on Finding Nemo and the Lion King SE?

Finding Nemo = 8192k
Lion King = 8192k

Why anyone would have any problems with either of these titles is beyond me. Disney titles are always a piece of cake. :)

[manono]

Hi-

When the day comes that anyone provides me with even one title that I can not rip with SR (that DVDD successfully rips), then being an open minded person, I will adjust my thinking and my opinion accordingly.

OK. Anything from outside of your region SmartRipper freezes on, and DVDDecrypter handles fine. I'm R1, and have some NTSC R2 Japanese DVDs (names not important, I don't think). My DVD-ROM isn't region free. Maybe if it were, SmartRipper could then handle these discs, I don't know. And as has been mentioned already, if the DVD is slightly scratched, often SmartRipper can't do it, while DVDDecrypter often (not always) will keep chugging away until it's ripped.

I think most Disney DVDs are over priced.

Finding Nemo just had the highest first day sales in DVD history with over 8 million copies sold on November 4th (beating out Monsters Inc.). It's very reasonably priced, under $15 at some B&M stores. I got mine at Wal-Mart for $15.99, which isn't so bad.

[Psychotourist]

I've never had problems with Disney titles either, thankfully. And I got Lion King for the nephews for $9.99 at Best Buy with coupon. lol.

I ran into the same problem with 3 out of region discs and SR that I backed up for someone else (Anime titles from Japan), just thought it was something I did or didn't do since that was near the beginning of my backup learning curve. I'm not region free either, but DVDD did pull me out on that one too.

[Stampede]

I've run into problems using SmartRipper on several occasions. My most recent experience was with Maid in Manhattan. I don't remember if the disc was scratched or not but SmartRipper wasn't able to get past one of the vobs.

[spiderman2k1]

I like to use ANYDVD with dvdshrink

[MackemX]

I've had a DVD that both DVDDecrypter and SmartRipper couldn't rip by themselves, as they both stopped in different places

yet using them together I managed to get the complete DVD :)

at the end of the day, there is no 'best' for anything, not just rippers/quality etc as you just use whatever is 'best' for you but you must accept that it may not be someone else's 'best' choice ;)