This isn't good for us....anyone have thoughts?

[atreides93]

http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/21/technology/tv_piracy.reut/

Basically it says they'll start using that broadcast flag that won't let you make DVD's of your favorite tv shows.

[Neo Neko]

It's a flag. It requires a closed end to end system to make it work. Anything in the path of the video if compromised could render the flag utterly useless. Which makes this measure utterly iddiotic! CSS anyone? They can try to make it illegal all they want. But there will always be tech geeks at MIT and elsewhere making simple microprocessor devices to counter such things just for the fun of the limited challenge. It's like Macrovision only for TV. But how many of us have never owned, seen, or heard of an anti-macrovision device?

I think this technology should get a firm vote for stupidest technology of the year.

[mpucoder]

The way I understand it, its only a flag until a compliant recorder records it. Then it becomes scrambled or encrypted so that only a new compliant DVD player can play it.

But as for "stupidest technology of the year" award, I think SunnComm has that wrapped up - see this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62933)

[atreides93]

Well the thing that sucks is my standalone DVD recorder pays attention to that flag and won't record anything if it has it. Its not macrovision its called copyguard. There is an analog version already. Some tapes use it, and some pay per view channels use it.

[Morbo]

Me kisses my Dazzle:D

Man I knew their would be a hitch to those new shiney DVRs.

The thing is,if they start doing popular programs(Simpsons,etc) and peep cant record them with their stuff,and everyone complains.....will it do any good this time?

Seems like Hardware vendors,etc would be climbing the hill over that one,....there's ALOT of people getting tired of VCRs,and you have to have a SVHS model(like my JVC,which collects dust these days) just to see any quality.....

Sad,One hand......we want HQ video

Hollywood....wants Dull and dark Video for all....(which in the end is incentive to see the flick in the theater all over again).

Weird.....I wonder who will win this one...:confused:

Cheers!

[Kedirekin]

I know this is negative, but divided we fall.

If 95% of consumers refused to buy a product if it included this kind of crippling technology (and had a long standing history of refusing), the hardware manufacturers wouldn't even entertain the idea of building it in.

Unfortunately we're divided and the industry that wants to cripple us is not.

[Neo Neko]

Well we as in us here are not devided. We know where we stand. Flags my arse. The average consumer is not so devided though. They simply don't know what they think or have not been told something reasonably agreeable that they can agree with. You have the unreasonable media conglomerates on one side saying that you have no rights and that they own you. Psssssh yah right. Then you have the P2P fanatics that are often seen shouting that all video and music should be free. People know the difference between right and wrong. So no matter how much they like the P2Per message they feel that the media conglomerates are largely in the right. What we don't have is major coverage of the oppinions and views of groups like the EFF or even those of us here which would present a much more moderate and reasonable proposal for mutual reform. We need a bit more control over P2P or at least some official, legal, and reasonable alternatives to current P2P networks. Right now people hear flags and they sound like they will not be that bad. You have to get out there and tell them straight. This revokes rights and privelages that at least those of us American citizens have had since the 1960's! Not to say our European friends are any less worthy. Cause they aren't. You want to record Friends? No way. The flag goes up. Are you one of those lame-o-survivor fans but can't watch because you have to work? So sorry. Sucks to be you. You are either gonna have to wait for re-runs which can often never come or should the series ever be lucky enough to hit DVD pay the $40-$50 dollars to buy the season or part of the season containing the show. That or you can wait for that annoying creepy talkative guy at work to give you his lame condensed version. :angry: :devil:

You have to get out in the streets and in public and let it be known. I own a VCR/DVD-Recorder and it is my right to record publicly broadcast shows or even satelite and cable shows for my own personal use. And I'll be damned if they are gonna take that away from me.

Because lets not kid ourselves here. This is only gonna hurt innocent home users. The people who are not to blame. I garonte you that even after the flags are implemented that these same shows will still be avalible the next day for download on the internet. Past that downloading them will only increase because legal means of recording them for personal use will have been removed. Maybe Suncomm is stupider on their own. But if the FCC approves this then the government will have another confirmed failure to take appropriate action to curb illegal activities. An act of mass stupidity if you will :P Lets shoot ourselves in the foot! Oh good idea! Yes lets!

It's about time the government and the RIAA/MPAA get their collective heads out of eachothers collective nether regions and and put forth some measures to actually target the guilty parties. And I am not talking about 12 year old honor students or guys who have never used P2P or even have any evidence of illegal downloading. Soon the outcry will be to great. I only hope it will be listened to before it is to late.

[Mug Funky]

i agree with neo.

in a democracy (which we still are i think) the citizen is MEANT to have the power... and guess what. WE DO!

people only feel like powerless toys of big corporations/governments because they're too fekkin' timid to get out there and make a noise. you don't like copy protect flags? tell your MP/congressman about it. if they don't do anything, vote for the other guy, or run yourself.

it's only when people get too lazy to move that people start taking advantage IMHO.

[edit]

oh, and i think it's amusing that private content would be broadcast publicly... you'd think "public" and "private" were separate domains... maybe this means we shouldn't watch it either?

[ppera2]

Good points Neo Neko.
However, I think that main intention is to prevent average home user to make digital records of broadcasted content. So, there is more chance that he will buy DVD sooner or later.
Same, old 'greedy' story...

[Kedirekin]

Really? I got the impression that people would still be able to record things, and they'd be able to play it back on the device they recorded on, and maybe on some other devices in their house if they could get them to talk to each other. But forget about lending it to a friend; nobody else would be able to view it.

That's why it's so insidious. Most people won't see any real disadvantages - until of course their first device fails and they have to replace it, or some similar scenario.

Am I misunderstanding this?

[Doobie]

All it takes is for one person to bypass the flag for any program to be on the Internet. And, of course, someone will make hardware or software that ignores the flag. So, this will do nothing to keep stuff off the internet.

But, it will be a huge pain to those people who buy the protected stuff. You can bet that eventually every TV show will be flagged, so when you want to take a copy of any TV program to view at a friend's house, or at school, or wherever for your private viewing, you won't be able to view it. And, when your old digital recorder dies and you replace it, you'll probably have to toss your whole library in the trash.

As usual, copy protection is a great reason to pirate to avoid the crippled product in the stores.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by ppera2
Good points Neo Neko.
However, I think that main intention is to prevent average home user to make digital records of broadcasted content. So, there is more chance that he will buy DVD sooner or later.
Same, old 'greedy' story...

Which is exactly why it should be opposed. But this is all missleading anyways. This is being promoted as a measure to reduce piracy. Which I can say with absolute certainty that it will only increase piracy. This measure will only turn innocent citizens in to new P2P criminals because they can no longer legally exercise their legal rights.

Originally posted by Kedirekin
Really? I got the impression that people would still be able to record things, and they'd be able to play it back on the device they recorded on, and maybe on some other devices in their house if they could get them to talk to each other. But forget about lending it to a friend; nobody else would be able to view it.


That is the impression they want you to have. But it is most definatly not their plan. And even if that was their plan it is unnaceptable. Remember those Microsoft Media PC snafu stories? Microsoft already tried something similar. But there was enough uproar that they released a patch that allows content and discs made on those POS PCs to be played on all Windows machines not just the one that created it. Still Linux and everyone else is given the cold shoulder. But what would you expect from an effective monopoly that fears competition.


Originally posted by Kedirekin
That's why it's so insidious. Most people won't see any real disadvantages - until of course their first device fails and they have to replace it, or some similar scenario.

Am I misunderstanding this?

No that sounds about right. No get out and tell them that. ;) No doubt this is an evil, insidious, and massively stupid plot to those ends.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Doobie
All it takes is for one person to bypass the flag for any program to be on the Internet. And, of course, someone will make hardware or software that ignores the flag. So, this will do nothing to keep stuff off the internet.

But, it will be a huge pain to those people who buy the protected stuff. You can bet that eventually every TV show will be flagged, so when you want to take a copy of any TV program to view at a friend's house, or at school, or wherever for your private viewing, you won't be able to view it. And, when your old digital recorder dies and you replace it, you'll probably have to toss your whole library in the trash.

As usual, copy protection is a great reason to pirate to avoid the crippled product in the stores.

Yes I know we are supposed to avoid such talk. But on principal if this does pass and become widespread I will not respect it. They don't respect me so I have no respect for their digital flag. I am well within my fair use rights to record shows for later viewing. And if they restrict that as they have tried with VHS and DVD then they are violating my rights. DMCA my arse!