Problem with wrongly mastered DVDs!

[Tuning]

Hi everybody,

I think this is the appropriate forum and I couldn't find answer myself trying all the day.The problem is with wrongly mastered DVDs.The aspect ratio of the DVDs is found to be 4:3(DVD2Avi),but when i previewd,i could understand it is actually a 16:9 letterboxed
movie.So i changed the aspect ratio to 16:9 and encoded the movie to DiVX.I used GK 0.28.5.3 & it's codec packs.

The MPEG2 stream was NTSC and interlaced as shown by DVD2AVIDg(Donald Graft's).So i selected IVTC and continued(as per guides on doom9.org)
The problem is when watching this avi.It shows some intermediate dropping of frames from start to end,i.e looks stuck and then proceed in certain interval of time.This problem has entirely filled the movie.This problem has happened to my another rip with similar conditions.

I don't know exactly what is reclock,but i have tried it and the same problem persisits again.(No change)

The stream info of avi is this: DivX MPEG4 low motion,620kbps(0.74% overhead) and audio to be lame mp3 ABR 125kbps(6.01% overhead)

Can anyone help me to correct this?

Or i need to proceed un-IVTC-ing and keep the original fps of NTSC movie?

Thanks

Tuning:(

[manono]

Hi Tuning-

The aspect ratio of the DVDs is found to be 4:3(DVD2Avi),but when i previewd,i could understand it is actually a 16:9 letterboxed

I don't understand. What makes you think it's not a widescreen movie encoded with 4:3 DAR? DVD2AVI isn't always right, but it's almost always right. After you crop and resize in GKnot, hit View-Resized on top of the .d2v picture. Then flip back and forth between 16:9 and 4:3 and watch how the picture changes. It should be pretty easy to tell which is the right one.

It shows some intermediate dropping of frames from start to end

You're saying that it still plays jerky after Decimate(5)? Is this perhaps a European PAL film converted to NTSC? That would account for it. Check the .d2v in GKnot. Find a scene with motion and advance one frame at a time. Do you find the noninterlaced-interlaced pattern repeating every 5 frames, or perhaps every 6 frames? Or do this; Telecide() (and without the Decimate line). Open that .avs in VDubMod. And find a motion scene and advance a frame at a time. Do you find duplicates? And if so, you find duplicates every how many frames? What I'm thinking is that you have to Decimate(6) to make it play smoothly. Or better yet, use RePAL to get rid of the blended frames. You can find it here (http://www.avisynth.org/~warpenterprises/).

And when looking at the frames in GKnot, if you see that they're all interlaced, then of course you have to keep it at 29.97fps and just deinterlace.

[Tuning]

Then flip back and forth between 16:9 and 4:3 and watch how the picture changes. It should be pretty easy to tell which is the right one.
By this same way I could conclude the video is not 4:3 and is 16:9.The condition was same when played through a software DVD player,i.e it showed the video(The Matrix Reloaded)with setting aspect ratio as 4:3.(and elongated human beings ...looks like they are of 7 feet)
And when looking at the frames in GKnot, if you see that they're all interlaced, then of course you have to keep it at 29.97fps and just deinterlace.
My question is: whether there will be problems in continuing encoding with 29.976 and only just de-interlacing and cropping?

I thought the problem was due to selecting the changed aspect ratio than shown in DVD2Avi.

Thanks for response manono.

Tuning

[manono]

Geez, Tuning-

Don't you get good DVDs where you live? You have a major film like Matrix Reloaded and it's interlaced? Well, if you can't get a better version from somewhere else, then I guess you have to live with it. Try this:

Telecide(Post=False)#no Decimate line

Open the .avs in VDubMod. Is everything (or almost everything) still interlaced? If so, then you're screwed, and have to just deinterlace. The result won't look as good when compared to Force Film or IVTC, and you'll have 25% more frames when compared to Force Film or IVTC, so the quality won't be as good for the same file size. But there shouldn't be any problem deinterlacing. You might try some different deinterlacing methods to see which looks the best to you. I might recommend KernelDeInt, which you can get at the link I gave in my last post. But GKnot's Smart Bob (DGBob) is pretty good also.

[Tuning]

Hai manono,
Happy now..the method u just described and as in previous post helped me.It is true that i could not get good DVDs in my region.This film is the one just available in stores now.It was only 1 week passed to get "Q" factor copy of the same film.I have even got one Theatre copy of this DVD.So u can guess how could i manage to buy these DVDs.Many of the new DVDs are of this kind,I think as u said they are definitely NTSC ones created from PAL.But the quality of these DVDs are equvalent to actual DVDs except for this artifact coming over ripping.

This is how u helped me on getting a good rip:
The frames found to be duplicating every 6 frames.Thus i edited the Decimate line to Decimate(6) and tried encoding small clips (portions that shown jerky feeling in previous rip)and could play smoothly.The problem caused delay to this is the correcting bitrate option of GK,which i had disabled made more problems .finally i calculated a approximate bitrate that can catch the frame drop.


Is there any other means this can be corrected:if i have enabled IVTC and correct frame count option?

So that bitrate and size are maintained.

Thanks manono

Tuning :p

[manono]

OK-

Now we know what it is. I see that kind all the time. My region also gets bad DVDs (but not Matrix Reloaded). Instead of using 24fps and telecining from that, they keep it at 25fps and add blended frames to reach 29.97. It looks very ugly.

First, to fix the bitrate problems; in the lower left of the Bitrate Tab, change to 25.000 fps. That's not exact, but it will do for starters. Next, open the .avs (with Decimate(6) in it) in VDubMod and go File-File Information and note the exact number of frames, and in the lower left of the Bitrate Tab, change to that number of frames. Do the audio so you know the exact size. You should have the audio already. Since the movie length doesn't change, you can use the same audio from before, AC3 or MP3. So fill in the audio size with the "Select" button and tick the correct box under "Interleaving and AVI overhead". And if you've chosen the codec at the top of GKnot Bitrate Tab correctly, the bitrate should now be exact. Then when encoding, under Audio 1, "Select" the Audio file and choose "Just Mux". If it's AC3 and has a delay, fill that in also. In the Codec Tab, uncheck the "ReCalculate Bitrate" box, to make sure the bitrate stays the same. And don't check the "IVTC in avs->correct frame count" box. That's where your problem was before, because for GKnot, IVTC always means Decimate(5), and you're using Decimate(6). But back in the Bitrate Tab you've filled in the correct frame count, so it doesn't have to be adjusted anymore. I think that will do it.

And I still recommend using RePAL instead of Decimate(6). Both ways will give you 24.975fps, but RePAL will get rid of most of the blended fields (if you have them), and Decomb won't. But RePAL is slow. Maybe encode some small clips like you did before, to see if you like the results better. And if you want to make the final .avi 25fps, or 24fps, or 23.976fps, then you can add AssumeFPS(xx.xxx) to the bottom of the script. But then you'll have to adjust the audio, since the movie's length will change. BeSweet can do that.

And I appreciate how you've been trying to help other people in this forum and other forums since you came here. Keep up the good work. Good Luck.

[Tuning]

I have completed encoding the movie in 24.975 using decimate(6).Video looks better than first and no jerky felling on previously found regions.But after several seconds(don't know exactly)one jerk occurs and then plays OK.After some more seconds this happens again.It could be identified only on close observation.

I think the entire blended frames are not lost and hence i'm getting it.

Thanks again and i have downloaded the RePAL plugin and some previous repal threads from forum.And i will look into the methods u just described.
Hope this will get rid of the problem :)

Keep up the good work. Good Luck.

Thanks and i will continue to share my knowledge for those who need help.


Bye.:D

[manono]

Yes, it's very difficult for Decomb to pick the correct frames to drop when blended fields are involved. It's not really Decomb's fault. If you were to open the .avi to one of those jerky places, you might see an almost duplicate frame, but not quite, followed by the jump. Sometimes tweaking the settings from the GKnot default settings can improve the situation. I hope that you weren't using Guide=1 as that's for standard telecines.

RePAL is easy to use. Load the DGBob.dll and RePAL.dll and use something like this:

DGBob(order=1)
RePAL()

[Tuning]

Hi manono,

I'm willing to use RePAL and KernelDeint filter.But I'have only little knowlege on this issue.So may i ask u to post a sample script from your own experiences?I have done only simple editing with avisynth scripts.



TO MODERATORS:Can u change this thread to avisynth forum.Thanks

[manono]

Here you go:

LoadPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\2.5Plugins\Mpeg2Dec3dg.dll")
LoadPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\2.5Plugins\RePal.dll")
LoadPlugin("F:\DivX Stuff\GKnot\2.5Plugins\DGBob.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\Tokyo Fist\Fist.d2v")
DGBob(order=1)
RePal()
Crop(12,72,688,344)
LanczosResize(640,352)


You have to use a (Smart)Bob deinterlacer, one capable of doubling the framerate. You can't use KernelDeInt for this (yet).

TO MODERATORS:Can u change this thread to avisynth forum.Thanks

I'm not sure why you want that. Much of this discussion is GKnot specific. If you have an AviSynth question, you can open a thread there, and perhaps link to this thread.

Edit: Edited later to add crop and resize. And you may have additional filters that you like to use.

[Tuning]

Thanks for the interest you put to this problem.

I thought the problem can only cleared by using special avisynth plugins and that goes to that forum.Thus i thought avisynth forum is more suited to the problem.One more thing is that if u search "RePAL" u get this thread as one of the results.



:D Tuning