BSN=BeSweet+Nero

[DSPguru]

ok, i had written something (http://dspguru.notrace.dk/plugins.html).

this is a very basic ac3->mp4 transcoder.
it is based on "nencode", but uses BeSweet.dll instead of nero's input plugins.

source-code is public and anyone with some basic c knowledge, can extend it to take advantage of all BeSweet's features (mpa input, two-pass, etc'..). more info here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22590).


i really hope that someone will actually take the code and push it forward, this time. must admit that until today, lots of people had asked for my tools' source-codes but none had done anything with stuff i did publish.

enjoy,
Dg.



edit : BSN.exe is obsolete, and now integrated in BeSweet as bsn.dll (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62672&perpage=9&pagenumber=2).

[OBcecado]

Hi, I downloaded the app you've wrote, but i can't find out how to define bitrate to be used, it says something about presets or something, but i can't figure it out.
Sorry for this lame question.



Thanks in advance.

[mfluder]

Has anyone tried this great tool. I can't get it to work. I have copied 'aac.dll', 'aacenc32.dll' and 'NeroIPP.dll' to BSN dir and I'm using one of DSPguru's commandline examples from readme.txt file (I have tried both actually). It starts fine, I can choose settings for Nero's encoder and BeSweet starts finding maximum gain but once the maximum gain has been found it just crashes. Microsoft's error report says that the crash
occured because of aacenc32.dll but I don't know what's causing it.

Can anyone else please test this and report the results?

DSPguru, thank you for all your work, it is greatly appreciated.

mfluder

[DSPguru]

currently, two-pass isn't implemented.. :(

you can set a static gain value like 10db or the value it found in the first pass before crashing..

[Tuning]

Thanks DSP guru,

This is the S/W i was looking for.I tried it over small ac3s-Working perfectly....no crashes...no problem.I have got a doubt:which AAC.dll is to be put in this,From Nero 60011 or later?(I have already put 60015 plugin:some confusion on reading the other thread on neroac3 plugin. :confused: )Thanks again.


;) Tuning

[mfluder]

This is really weird. I'm using a very simple commandline, as simple as this:

bsn.exe -core( -input test.ac3 -output test.mp4 -2ch )

But it always tries to find max gain and of course after that it just crashes. Here is how it looks before the crash:


BSN v0.1 by DPeshev & Dg
-------------------------
BeSweet v1.5b21 by DSPguru. for the latest builds @ http://DSPguru.doom9.org
Using azid.dll v1.8 (b825) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : ac3input
[00:00:00:000] | Output: test.mp4
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 0.000dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -INF, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:01:59:328] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:05:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

As you can see it writes 'Input: ac3input' even though the input file name is 'test.ac3'. I have also tried with setting manual gain with the -ota( -g 4.7db ) switch but again, it tries to find max gain.

I don't know what it is but it's obviously something on my side as Tuning's post proves that it's definitely working.

DSPguru, any thoughts on this?

mfluder

[mfluder]

Originally posted by Tuning
I have got a doubt:which AAC.dll is to be put in this,From Nero 60011 or later?(I have already put 60015 plugin:some confusion on reading the other thread on neroac3 plugin. :confused: )
Just use the ones from 6.0.0.15 release and later. They have the standard WAV ordering input which is what BeSweet outputs.

mfluder

[Tuning]

@mfluder,
The above post was based on the 5.1AAC creation and i also tried stereo AAC.The lenght of ac3 was only 1 min 32seconds(both case).Created a fine file.
Using this line bsn.exe -core( -input d:\aurora.ac3 -output d:\test.mp4 -2ch ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 )

No crash and completed encoding the entire length.
I'm currently using AAC.dll from nero 60019.
Thanks mfluder.

Edit: i'm going to try a huge ac3 of 3hr42min now.Results will be posted later.bye



:) Tuning

[Tuning]

5.1
I could trancode the ac3 of length 3:42:52 in to AAC.The bitrate chosen was constant HE-AAC profile at 128kbps.The resulted file had a size of 224MB instead of 204MB as indicated by GK(don't know if Mutichannel makes larger file).
Final:log 5.1 tests

C:\BSnv.0.1>bsn.exe -core( -input d:\lag.ac3 -output d:\lagaan.mp4 -6chliff )
BSN v0.1 by DPeshev & Dg
-------------------------
BeSweet v1.5b21 by DSPguru. for the latest builds @ http://DSPguru.doom9.org
Using azid.dll v1.8 (b825) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : ac3input
[00:00:00:000] | Output: d:\lagaan.mp4
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 0.000dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -INF, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[03:42:52:192] Conversion Completed !
[03:05:31:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

The another thing i could find problem is the playing in winamp.This mp4 file playes very slowly than regularly encoded files[Correct channel order in winamp..Ok].

After installing the 3ivx codec and CoreAAC,every media player crashed and auromatically quit when trying to play.Then I tried the
Older AAC.dll(60011) and encoded a part of the same ac3 at same settings.The resulted file could be played in winamp,media players and i can assure ,without a single problem.But the channel order of second file is wrong.

2.0
The same 'short' ac3 file was again encoded by using the two AAC.dlls(60011&60019@128kbps HE-AAC:

Intermediate:log2.0 tests

C:\BSnv.0.1>bsn.exe -core( -input d:\lag.ac3 -output d:\test.mp4 -2ch ) -ssrc( -
-rate 44100 )
BSN v0.1 by DPeshev & Dg
-------------------------
BeSweet v1.5b21 by DSPguru. for the latest builds @ http://DSPguru.doom9.org
Using azid.dll v1.8 (b825) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using Shibatch.dll v0.24 by Naoki Shibata & DSPguru (shibatch.sourceforge.net).


[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : ac3input
[00:00:00:000] | Output: d:\test.mp4
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 0.000dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -INF, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] +------ Shibatch -----
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Dest. Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Attenuation : 0.0db
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:01:29:088] transcoding! Max gain : 14.5dB

60011:The stereo file plays in winamp2.92,WMP6.4 &,MPC6.4.6.5.
60019:Plays only in Winamp2.92 with out problem.


So is there anyway in which correct channel ordering can be made and everybody could use the old (60011)AAC.dll ?DSPGuru??

:( Tuning

[DSPguru]

channel mapping problem and this playback issue had already been discussed in here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55173&perpage=5&pagenumber=24).
to change channel ordering, use the switch "-azid( -oc,l,r,sl,sr,lfe )"


anyway,
i had released BeSweet v1.5b22 (http://dspguru.notrace.dk/beta.html) with bsn.dll .

commandlines are :
BeSweet -core( ) -shibatch( ) -boost( ) -azid( ).... -bsn( -2ch/-6chold/-6chnew )

[bond]

any plans to support quicktime too? there is also a quicktime commandline wrapper available here (http://efenstor.stratopoint.com/qutibacoas.htm)

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by bond
any plans to support quicktime too? there is also a quicktime commandline wrapper available here (http://efenstor.stratopoint.com/qutibacoas.htm) you guys never have enough, do you :o ?

[bond]

no :D

btw are there any plans to incorporate the bsn options into the besweet gui ;)

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by OBcecado
Hi, I downloaded the app you've wrote, but i can't find out how to define bitrate to be used, it says something about presets or something, but i can't figure it out.find info about those presets in here (http://www.doom9.org/AacMachine.htm) (after the "Last but not least let's configure the AAC output."..)

[bobsc]

Originally posted by DSPguru
anyway,
i had released BeSweet v1.5b22 (http://dspguru.notrace.dk/beta.html) with bsn.dll .
Thanks, you are a guru. :D

[Tuning]

The new BeSweet pack with BSN proved to be the easiest way of 5.1AAC encoding.

The incompatibility of newer AAC.dll on playback forced to me to use the older version in Nero 60011.Using this & the altered commandline generated using GUI helped me to create(Finally..)5.1 HE/LC streams working on every media player which had installation of 3ivX Codec & CoreAAC filter.



For Creating 5.1 HE/LC AAC :

BeSweet -core( -input "d:\ac3test.ac3" -output d:\outtest.mp4" -6chaiff -logfilea "d:\BeSweet.log" ) -azid(-oc,l,r,sl,sr,lfe ) -ota( -G 1 ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 )-boost( /b3=5 /l=0.95 ) -bsn( -6chold )



For Creating 2.0 HE/LC AAC :

BeSweet.exe -core( -input "d:\Lagaan.ac3" -output "d:\Lagaan.mp4" -logfilea "d:\BeSweet.log" ) -azid( -z1 -b1 ) -ota( -G 1 ) -boost( /b3=5 /l=0.95 ) -bsn( -2ch )




Following information was obtained during this test:
The center channel found to be louder,by above mentioned 5.1AAC method.Is there anything wrong?


HE-AAC is only enabled :
in CBR mode:Below or equal to 80kbps.
in VBR mode:below or equal to streaming:medium Quality.

In all other conditions,even if u try to set HE-AAC, LC-AAC is used.

The 5.1mp4 file created by this process plays in winamp2.92 with incorrect channel mapping even when used with latest AAC plugin from Rarewares.
This file plays without problem in most of media players,including WMP6.4,MPC6.4.6.5...

Encoding in BeSweet is slower for 5.1 than 2.0.
The MKV file created using mkvmerge0.7.0 woked well in media players.
Please correct me if anything stated here was found wrong.

[Gaia]

You're using very old version of Winamp2 aac plugin.


Latest is always here http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=6428&st=100&hl=

[Tuning]

I followed ur link and downloaded two filters,in_mp4 & CoreAACDS.The filters responded differently.The 5.1mp4 played with correct channel order in CoreAACDS[I can confirm this as i'm using the ac3test file],while it played in winamp with center as right and right as SR and some more changes.Therefore this confirms the channel mapping is not corrected in this release.

:( Tuning

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Tuning
The new BeSweet pack with BSN proved to be the easiest way of 5.1AAC encoding.


For Creating 5.1 HE/LC AAC :

BeSweet -core( -input "d:\ac3test.ac3" -output d:\outtest.mp4" -6chaiff -logfilea "d:\BeSweet.log" ) -azid(-oc,l,r,sl,sr,lfe ) -ota( -G 1 ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 )-boost( /b3=5 /l=0.95 ) -bsn( -6chold )



For Creating 2.0 HE/LC AAC :

BeSweet.exe -core( -input "d:\Lagaan.ac3" -output "d:\Lagaan.mp4" -logfilea "d:\BeSweet.log" ) -azid( -z1 -b1 ) -ota( -G 1 ) -boost( /b3=5 /l=0.95 ) -bsn( -2ch )

that's very good news!
btw, for 6ch, i would suggest the following commandline :BeSweet -core( -input "d:\ac3test.ac3" -output "d:\outtest.mp4" -logfilea "d:\BeSweet.log" ) -azid( --maximize -c normal ) -bsn( -6chold )and the "-ssrc( --rate 44100 )" is only optional.. ;)
afaik, all multichannel soundcards can playback 48khz streams, so the only motivation to downsample to 44.1khz is if the nero encoder is better tuned for 44.1khz streams than for 48khz. (better ask Ivan)
---
same idea for 2ch:BeSweet.exe -core( -input "d:\Lagaan.ac3" -output "d:\Lagaan.mp4" -logfilea "d:\BeSweet.log" ) -azid( --maximize -c normal ) -bsn( -2ch )


Following information was obtained during this test:
The center channel found to be louder,by above mentioned 5.1AAC method.Is there anything wrong?nothing i know of.. :o

Encoding in BeSweet is slower for 5.1 than 2.0.that's reasonable.

[Tuning]

Thanks again,

I will change the line as suggested by u from the very next rip.:D

BTW,The greater loudness of center channel is a guess or assumption as I have only 4.1 Card.The sound "Center" is heared to be louder than "Left" or "Right" through front speakers.




:) Tuning

[Shayne]

will this package do captured 48 wav to MP4?

Thanks

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Shayne
will this package do captured 48 wav to MP4?

Thanks yes. full list can be found in q7 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15738).

[Shayne]

the format sim to the readme.txt only inserting .wav = bsn.exe has encountered errors, appears to be looking for ac3 input.

bsn.exe -core( -input demo.wav -output filename.mp4 -6chliff )

[Tuning]

@Shayne,
Originally posted by Shayne
bsn.exe -core( -input demo.wav -output filename.mp4 -6chliff )

I think single BSN Pack(Ist release) can only transcode ac3 to mp4.
But the later release will support it as DSPGuru said.

[mfluder]

I have just tried new BeSweet and I'm happy to say that it works. No more crashes as with bsn. I don't know why bsn wasn't working for me but I guess it doesn't matter now, as long as BeSweet works :)

Also, just a note to those people who are planning to try this great new feature of BeSweet. As Tuning already mentioned in one of his previous posts, files encoded using dlls from latest release of Nero (6.0.0.19) and the previous one (6.0.0.15) are playing slower than normaly. To solve this issue you have to use AAC.dll from Nero 6.0.0.9 or 6.0.0.11 (they are the same). And this is important: ONLY AAC.dll. You can use aacenc32.dll from latest release which is actually an encoder. That way you'll have the latest quality improvements of this great codec. Just make sure that you use '-6chold' switch to get the correct channel mapping.

DSPguru, thank you again.

mfluder

[StoneRoses]

I tried playing 5.1 AAC-HE files (encoded with BeSweet and Nero AAC using the parameters that Tuning and DSPGuru's suggestions) on system that only has stereo output.

I noticed that 5.1 -> 2.0 downmixing is not correct. When playback the file using foobar2000 0.7 and its default mp4 decoder, I can hear the dialog (assumed its from front channels) only on LEFT channel.

When I using dbPowerAmp to playback 5.1 AAC file (using its default decoder), the dialog appears only on RIGHT channel.

I will try using mp4/aac directshow filter later.

Edit: typos

[Tuning]

I think only CORE AAC DS Filter is capable of correct channel decoding now.
Or is there a probability of wrong channel mapping in this filter?and that makes us feel other filters incorrect?? :confused: .Then the channel order need to be changed again in BeSweet command line.

Any comments?


:) Tuning

[Aboo]

I use your commandline

BeSweet -core( -input "C:\ac3test.ac3" -output "C:\outtest.mp4" -6chaiff -logfilea "C:\BeSweet.log" ) -azid(-oc,l,r,sl,sr,lfe ) -ota( -G 1 ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 ) -boost( /b3=5 /l=0.95 ) -bsn( -6chold )

to transcode ac3 test file to MP4/aac
When i start BeSweet i get the following error:

BeSweet v1.5b22 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.8 (b825) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using Shibatch.dll v0.24 by Naoki Shibata & DSPguru (shibatch.sourceforge.net).
Using bsn.dll v0.2 by DPeshev,Richard,DSPguru (http://DSPguru.Doom9.org).
Manual Dynamic-Compression algorithm by LigH (author of WaveBooster).

Logging start : 10/09/03 , 12:40:49.

BeSweet -core( -input C:\ac3test.ac3 -output C:\outtest.mp4 -6chaiff -logfilea C:\BeSweet.log ) -azid(-oc,l,r,sl,sr,lfe ) -ota( -G 1 ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 ) -boost( /b3=5 /l=0.95 ) -bsn( -6chold )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : C:\ac3test.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: C:\outtest.mp4
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] | PostGain normalize to : 1.00
Error 84: error configuring bsn!
Quiting...
[00:00:00:000] Conversion Completed !

Logging ends : 10/09/03 , 12:40:49.

What should be the problem? I copied AAC.dll and NeroIPP.dll to BeSweet directory, but that didn't help.

And the other question: When i try to transcode AC3 file using Nero AC3-> Nero AAC plugin w/ nero conversion utility i get a file with ticking - The sound is gone. I'm using nero 6.0.0.15. Has anybody encountered such problem?

[DSPguru]

copy aacenc32.dll as well..

[ak]

Originally posted by Tuning
Or is there a probability of wrong channel mapping in this filter?and that makes us feel other filters incorrect?? :confused: .Then the channel order need to be changed again in BeSweet command line.

Any comments?
I think -bsn( -6chnew ) is the one to use. At least with nero60019 dll's.

[Aboo]

Anyway, i use new AAC.dll now and have incorrect channel mapping. How should i change -azid() section?
And last but not least - how can i control output aac file bitrate?

The thing i liked in original Nero Encoding tool is that i can make a desired size file - that's especially useful foê recoding movie tracks.

[ak]

Default output channel order (without passing -o... to azid at all) should do.
At least it produces correct results here.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Aboo
Anyway,i don't like users who submit bugs, but never bother to say "ok, thank you for the tip - problem solved".

[Aboo]

Originally posted by DSPguru
i don't like users who submit bugs, but never bother to say "ok, thank you for the tip - problem solved".

O-o-ops:rolleyes: , did i forget to thank you?
:( Sorry:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
DG, i'm (and think we all) a VERY grateful to you fo your job and your utils. Without your help we could still be using 10-year old MP3. :) Great thanks!!! :)
And, of course, the problem has been solved. Thanks for help! :)

Default output channel order (without passing -o... to azid at all) should do.

Yup, allright now. Thanks. I have aleready tried not using -azid() yesterday, but must have left -6chold switch. Everything is OK now. Thank you.

And, of course, this question once more: is there any way to control bitrate of AAC file?

Thanks ;)

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Aboo
is there any way to control bitrate of AAC file?"-bsn( -config )" will open nero's configuration dialog and you can control anything there.

Cheers :),
Dg.

[Aboo]

Cool, i didn't know that. Thank you.
So, if i'm using BeSweet, i should write the following string?

BeSweet -core( -input "C:\ac3test.ac3" -output "C:\outtest.mp4" -6chaiff -logfilea "C:\BeSweet.log" ) -ota( -G 1 ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 ) -boost( /b3=5 /l=0.95 ) -bsn( -config -6chnew )

Is that correct?

And the final question, if i want to transcode 5.1 AC3 to 2.0 AAC, what should i write in -azid() section?

PS: You're a true guru!!!

[DSPguru]

my advised commandlines for encoding 5.1aac and 2.0aac were already posted in here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62672&perpage=18&pagenumber=2).

* and you can always add "-config" to your bsn section.

hopefully, DanniDin would publish BeSweetGUI v0.7beta1 in a couple of days with aac support.
hopefully2, i would publish a new AACMachine in a few days.

Cheers :),
Dg.

[Aboo]

Great Thanks!!! :D

[tiki4]

Hi all,

I am a little confused now. What is this problem with the aac.dll from Nero 6.0.0.19? Why do the files play 'slow' as stated above? I only had time to test stereo encoding yesterday, so I don't know about 5.1. However, the files I got played correctly in Matroska container. I'd really like to hear more about this problem as I am using latest Nero here.

Cheers,

tiki4

EDIT: O.K., I've re-read some of the posts above. It seems that the problem isn't 'slow' playing files, but files that don't play at all in a DirectShow based player. This is an incompatibility between MP4 from Nero >= 6.0.0.15 and 3ivx D4.0.4 splitter. I think shitowax is looking into that. However, I use AAC mainly for movies and I put it into Matroska anyway. Looking forward for new AACMachine... :)

[calinb]

Originally posted by tiki4
I am a little confused now. What is this problem with the aac.dll from Nero 6.0.0.19? Why do the files play 'slow' as stated above?)
tiki4, Hi.

Yes, it's confusing. Mostly because 6.0.0.19 has all KINDS of problems but, thanks to people like DSPguru, we've been able to work-around them.

When I mux 5.1 to mkv or mp4 (even with mp4creator60) I get slow playback (pitch "red shifted") I don't know about 2ch.

Yes, shitowax is looking into the 3ivx DSF incompatibility. He reported the nature of the problem on the 3ivx.com forum, I think.

And there's the channel order change--well supported by BeSweet.

[calinb]

I think I just noticed the cause of the slow playback -- 6.0.0.19 aac.dll causes a 48kHz aac/mp4 to be written out as 44.1kHz. It appears to be slow by the ratio 44.1/48. If I go back to 6.0.0.11, I get 48kHz--as reported by DirectShow.

[Aboo]

Yup, that's why you should use -ssrc( --rate 44100 ) switch. Unfortunately, that slows down encoding.

[Tuning]

@Aboo & calinb,

Can u play back the AAC/Mp4 in media player without problems after resampling to 44.1 kHz??(AAC.dll of Nero 60019)

[calinb]

Originally posted by Aboo
Yup, that's why you should use -ssrc( --rate 44100 ) switch. Unfortunately, that slows down encoding. Yeah and the 10k1 and 10k2 chips in Creative Labs cards don't perform all that well at 44.1 playback--they are really only good at their native 16bit/48kHz! (CL marketing aside, these are just 16/48 cards--with the exception of the newer Audigy2 24/96 P16V signal path.) ChristianHJW was thinking that the Nero aac encoder is optimized for 44.1. DSPguru suggested checking on this. I'm wondering what's my best compromise, if that's the case, with a EMU10k2 Audigy?

Originally posted by Tuning
@Aboo & calinb,Can u play back the AAC/Mp4 in media player without problems after resampling to 44.1 kHz??(AAC.dll of Nero 60019) I tried downsampling in MPC and it didn't make any difference. This seems to make sense because I think the newer Nero is sampling at 48kHz but writing 44.1 to the header. When the samples are played at the lower rate, time is stretched and pitch reduced. I think you'd need a utility to re-write the header to 48kHz. I don't know if mkvmerge can rewrite mp4 headers--I doubt it. Maybe mp4creator60 can do it. I'm just going to stick to the old aac.dll for now.

This is all naive speculation on my part. I'm sure someone that knows what they are talking about will explain it all :)

[calinb]

Anyone know a good way to do dts >> Nero aac/mp4? My current method is to use BeSweet/azidts to make an aif file, which Nero can read. Does anyone know how to do it directly with BSN? It's probably not supported, but just thought I'd ask.

BTW, I get "Stream error : Sync found....." when I try to use BSN on a aif file. Maybe aif is not supported by BSN either.
Originally posted by DSPguru
you guys never have enough, do you :o ? DSPguru, yes I, for one, am very happy with what you have given to us. :D Two steps to go from dts >> mp4 isn't bad at all (it was 4 steps before you gave us -6chold vs. -6chnew!)

[Aboo]

I have SB Live! Value with 10k1 chip, and don't have any problems w slow playback - 44.1 tracks play correctly.

[JasonFly]

First, thank you DSPguru for all your work.

I have used the -ssrc( --rate 44100) option for the HE-AAC encode with Besweet and the resulting mkv file plays correctly whereas the sound was slower with 48000.
So Calinb, it seems that you were right about the samplerate problem.

I have two questions:
When I play the mkv with The Core Media Player, I click on theCoreAAC filter and it shows that the samplrate of the audio is 22050 hz.Is that normal?

The second question also concerns TheCoreAAC filter.Whereas I choose Streaming:medium Quality in the Nero encoding tab which was suppose to produce HE-AAC, TheCoreAAC show that it uses an AAC-LC profile. Is this normal?

Thank you all of you for this thread that really helped me to create my first AAC.

[tiki4]

@JasonFly:

If CoreAAC shows you 22050 kHz sampling rate that means that you have a file that is encoded in HE-AAC. All those files have half the sampling rate but are played back with 44100 Hz, so you should see in CoreAAC 22050 -> 44100. The profile should say Reserved, not LC. I recommend to everybody to get the latest CoreAAC (and also in_mp4 and foo_mp4) compiles by John33 from here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jfe1205/COREaacDS.zip). You can find the links to the current versions in the AAC forum on HA in a thread called 'FAAD plugins'.

@all:

I think it's really recommendable to downsample from 48000 to 44100 Hz in BeSweet. After all, that's what Nero would do if you choose 'streaming' profile. The problem with Soundblaser Live and Audigy cards isn't that problematic. Just make sure you have the latest drivers and that the sliders in the sound controls are set to the maximum. This seems to be the default in Windows XP but not in Windows 2000. You find those settings in control panel at the audio devices. I think most of you will not hear any difference between 44,1 kHz or 48 kHz files on playback.

tiki4

[calinb]

Originally posted by Aboo
I have SB Live! Value with 10k1 chip, and don't have any problems w slow playback - 44.1 tracks play correctly.
Correct--I didn't intend to imply that the 10kx chips have anything to do with slow playback--slow playback has nothing to do with the soundcard.

I was just wondering whether 44.1 or 48 is better overall, if you have a 10kx chip. (Nero is best at 44.1 vs. 10kx chip is best at 48--at least according to theory and urban legend :)) tiki4 is probably correct that we won't hear the difference. I haven't tried any listening tests for this.

[Tuning]

Originally posted by JasonFly


The second question also concerns TheCoreAAC filter.Whereas I choose Streaming:medium Quality in the Nero encoding tab which was suppose to produce HE-AAC, TheCoreAAC show that it uses an AAC-LC profile. Is this normal?

This is not a problem,it is the nature of Nero AAC encoder.That is
if u choose small files the encoder uses HE-AAC in this VBR mode.But if u r encoding large files >60min(approx),the encoder automatically chooses LC-AAC...some VBR technique unique to Nero AAC encoder.(I think):D

Tuning

[JasonFly]

Thanks for your reply.


@calinb:
The sample rate tab in CoreAAC show 22050-->22050 in The core media player but show 22050-->44100 when mkv is played with Media Player Classic.That's really strange but that works.
I'll try the latest CoreAAC(I thought I had the latest) and I'll see.


@Tuning:
That could have been an explanation but my file is approximately 43 min long.
Does it do the same thing in cbr mode?

[calinb]

Originally posted by JasonFly
@calinb:
The sample rate tab in CoreAAC show 22050-->22050 in The core media player but show 22050-->44100 when mkv is played with Media Player Classic.That's really strange but that works.
That is really strange. I've never used the core media player--any chance that it's not using the same filter that MPC is using? It seems like it would be using the CoreAAC filter, but maybe it has an internal filter.

The reason I ask is usually, when you see 1/2 the HE sample rate, it means the player is playing back the AAC as LC instead of HE. I guess you could consider it a backward compatiblity mode for LC-only players. It appears that core media player thinks it's LC. Have you listened to some music with a lot of highs, like cymbals, on some good speakers or headphones? If it's playing back as LC, it should kill your highs, I think. Maybe a listening comparison between core media player and MPC is in order.

[JasonFly]

Yes, that should be something like that.MPC show AAC+SBR in the profile tab.

I'll try to find info about The core media player and i'll try a little test with music samples like you suggest.
Thanks.

EDIT:
I have tried with the latest version of the CoreAAC filter(5th october, mine was 7th august) and The coremedia player show now 44100-->44100 in the sample rate area and AAC-LC in the profile area.
MPC show 22050-->44100 and Reserved for the profile, that's better.

[Aboo]

Originally posted by calinb
I was just wondering whether 44.1 or 48 is better overall, if you have a 10kx chip. (Nero is best at 44.1 vs. 10kx chip is best at 48--at least according to theory and urban legend :)) tiki4 is probably correct that we won't hear the difference. I haven't tried any listening tests for this.
To tell you the truth, i never noticed any difference in sound quality between 48 and 44.1 I cant say that i have a "that bad" sound system. I have 4.1 Cambridge SoundWorks FPS1600 - the maximum for my SBLive! Value. Maybe i'm just dumb-eared :D ;)

[Aboo]

Originally posted by JasonFly
I have tried with the latest version of the CoreAAC filter(5th october, mine was 7th august) and The coremedia player show now 44100-->44100 in the sample rate area and AAC-LC in the profile area.
MPC show 22050-->44100 and Reserved for the profile, that's better.

Just a suggestion, but did those of you who had problems turned on "AAC is HE-AAC, SBR, AAC+" flag in mkvmerge?

[calinb]

Originally posted by Aboo
Just a suggestion, but did those of you who had problems turned on "AAC is HE-AAC, SBR, AAC+" flag in mkvmerge?
mkvmerge 7.0 introduced HE identification of mp4 files so you don't need the flag with HE-AAC in mp4. However, you still need it if you mux an aac file.

[tiki4]

One hint about Nero AAC encoder:

Nero chooses automatically LC if you try to encode a stereo file with a higher preset than streaming. So for a stereo file you just have to select streaming preset and HE profile and you get what you want.

The same goes in principle for 5.1 input files. You can select HE up to streaming preset, anything else gets encoded as LC.

For CBR encoding you can select HE up to 96 kBit/s and up to 128 kBit/s for a 5.1 source.

tiki4

[Stranger]

I've a strange problem....
I'm using Besweet + bsn.dll + AAC.dll (and others) from nero 6.0.0.11 so I use the -o in azid for correct channel mapping and -6chold in bsn.

The command line is the following:

BeSweet -core( -input test2.ac3 -output test2.mp4 -logfilea BeSweet.log ) -azid( --maximize -c normal ) -azid (-oc, l, r, sl, sr, lfe) -bsn( -6chold )

Here is the log from besweet:

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : test2.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: test2.mp4
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Input Channels Mode: 3/2, Bitrate: 448kbps
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 13.822dB, Compression: Normal
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -INF, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:08:13:216] Conversion Completed !
[00:01:54:000] <-- Transcoding Duration


From the aac panel I simply choose a preset (despite it is he or lc, cbr or vbr... I tried almost everything)
As you can see the input test is a 6-ch ac3 but the output file is a 2-ch file and really I don't know why :(
If I try to use the file the CoreAAC DS tells me it is a 48.000 khz but only with 2->2 channel
But why?
Where is the error?
Tnx a lot.
Stranger.

[calinb]

Originally posted by Stranger
Where is the error? I tried your command line and it worked. What versions of the BeSweet/BSN/azid tools are you using? You really need the latest. We need to see the top of the logfile too. Here's mine:

BeSweet v1.5b22 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.8 (b825) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using bsn.dll v0.2 by DPeshev,Richard,DSPguru (http://DSPguru.Doom9.org).

Logging start : 10/13/03 , 13:39:04.

C:\Program Files\Gordian Knot\BeSweet.exe -core( -input G:\RTV\MP4 Tests\vobtest AC3.ac3 -output G:\RTV\MP4 Tests\vobtest AC3.mp4 -logfilea G:\RTV\MP4 Tests\BeSweet.log ) -azid( --maximize -c normal ) -bsn( -6chold )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : G:\RTV\MP4 Tests\vobtest AC3.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: G:\RTV\MP4 Tests\vobtest AC3.mp4
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Input Channels Mode: 3/2, Bitrate: 448kbps
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 3.509dB, Compression: Normal
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -INF, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:00:04.426] W7: Downmix overflow (2: +0dB)
[00:01:00:000] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:31:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 10/13/03 , 13:39:35.

BTW, you don't need the -azid (-oc, l, r, sl, sr, lfe) option. -bsn( -6chold ) is sufficient.

[DSPguru]

i released a gui for transcoding to vorbis & aac, it's called The OagMachine and it can be found on my stable branch @ my website.

enjoy!

[Tuning]

i released a gui for transcoding to vorbis & aac, it's called The OagMachine and it can be found on my stable branch @ my website. enjoy!

Thanks DSPGuru!Now AAC encoding became even easier.

[calinb]

Originally posted by DSPguru
i released a gui for transcoding to vorbis & aac, it's called The OagMachine Yeah, I downloaded it this morning and it's great! :D Thanks again DSPguru!

[Hobojobo]

what is the problem.
I try to transcode a ac3(5.1) to aac(5.1) with The OagMachine.
I end up with error configuring bsn!

I tried all all listed channel modes.
Nero 6.0.0.19 (Demo) is installed.


Here is the log:


BeSweet v1.5b23 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.8 (b825) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using bsn.dll v0.2 by DPeshev,Richard,DSPguru (http://DSPguru.Doom9.org).

Logging start : 10/23/03 , 23:27:47.

C:\OagMachine0.1\BeSweet.exe -core( -input C:\audio.ac3 -output C:\audio.mp4 -logfilea C:\OagMachine0.1\BeSweet.log ) -azid( -g max -L -3db -c normal ) -bsn( -6chold -config -path C:\Programme\Gemeinsame Dateien\Ahead\AudioPlugins ) -profile( The OagMachine v0.1 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : C:\audio.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: C:\audio.mp4
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
Error 84: error configuring bsn!
Quiting...
[00:00:00:000] Conversion Completed !

Logging ends : 10/23/03 , 23:27:53.


Can anybody help me out?
Thank you.

[Hobojobo]

Stupid me.:o
First read then think then speak (post).
I sometimes get mixed up, what is first...

Copying all the needed files into the oagMachine folder, solved the error, as mentioned before.
I checked 'Set plug in path' and even entered the right path , though. :confused: That should have had the same effect, shouldn't it ?

[tiki4]

Hi,

just wanted to say congrats to DSPGuru for his new tool. Excellent work.

Now that everyone can use that tool, can someone share his experience regarding quality of 5.1 AAC?

I encoded a song from Springsteen's NYC-DVD some days ago to HE-AAC 'streaming' preset and the sound is still superb. But now I did Star Wars Episode Two and somehow the sound generated from the 448 kbps AC3 sounded rather terrible. I don't know why as I used the same settings with Nero 6.0.0.19 dlls and downsampled in BeSweet to 44.1 kHz.

Any ideas someone?

tiki4

[Tuning]

Do you checked the Core AAC filter is showing the same "Reserved"state in both tries.Sometimes i found even if you select HE-AAC the encoder uses LC AAC.

-Tuning

[tiki4]

Yep.

Both times CoreAAC shows Reserved and 22050->44100.

It's not so much a loss in high frequencies but the 'surround feeling' of the AC3 of Star Wars is somewhat reduced and also somehow the orchestral music is less pronounced. Dunno how to describe that properly. I think the music on the Springsteen DVD is more or less stereo coming from the front speakers, while the Star Wars DVD is very pronounced surround sound. Maybe that stresses the encoder too much. Of course Star Wars produces smaller bitrate (~160 vs. 180). This is something I already know from LAME (try lame -aps with music from CD and with a stereo movie soundtrack, the first ends up around 190 - 200 kbps, normal movie with many dialogues ends up around 160 - 170).

tiki4

[bond]

Originally posted by tiki4
I don't know why as I used the same settings with Nero 6.0.0.19 dlls and downsampled in BeSweet to 44.1 kHz.hm, try it without the downsampling in besweet as nero also downsamples automatically when using sbr (so you are downsampling twice i think)

[tiki4]

Nero 6.0.0.19 has issues with sampling rates other than 44.1 kHz. See above in this thread. (Otherwise, I tested with 6.0.0.11 aac.dll and it sounded the same). I will try without HE- now.

tiki4

[StoneRoses]

Just want to confirm that if I used Nero AAC Codec version 2.5.5.8 (come with Nero 6.0.0.19) for encoding 5.1 AAC and playback with latest CoreAACDs or foobar2000 latest mp4 plugin found at:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=6428&st=100&hl=

I should use switch -bsn ( -6chnew ) instead of -bsn ( -6chold ) to get correct channel mapping.

Everybody here seems to use -6chold, so I'm a little bit confused.

[tiki4]

If you use the dll's from Nero 6.0.0.19 (aac.dll, aacenc.dll and NeroIPP.dll) use -6chnew. Only if you use 6.0.0.11 or you change aac.dll to the 6.0.0.11 version you have to use -6chold.

aac.dll seems to be the one that handles the input. The reason some people switch aac.dll to the older one is that the new aac.dll from 6.0.0.19 has issues with 48 kHz input.

tiki4

[StoneRoses]

Thank you. :)

[menno]

Originally posted by tiki4
the new aac.dll from 6.0.0.19 has issues with 48 kHz input.

It does not. The application you use has trouble correctly feeding data to the plugin (no correct resampling).

Menno

[bobsc]

Originally posted by menno
The application you use has trouble correctly feeding data to the plugin (no correct resampling).
Could you elaborate?

[menno]

Sure, sometimes the AAC configuration can determine that the audio data needs to be resampled. The application using the plugins should handle this by resampling the data.

Menno

[bobsc]

Originally posted by menno
Sure, sometimes the AAC configuration can determine that the audio data needs to be resampled. The application using the plugins should handle this by resampling the data.
Sometimes? I thought you should always resample to 44.1 kHz with current Nero.

[menno]

Depends on the rest of the configuration.

Menno

[bobsc]

@Menno
Could you please clarify?

[menno]

If the bitrate gets lowered the samplerate will also get lowered, to give the best quality result.

Menno

[bobsc]

@Menno
So, at what bitrate should you resample to 44.1?
BTW, welcome to the forum.

[Tuning]

Well,I did a small test on account of your consideration menno,encoded a small mp3 file(48Khz) in nero wav editor(with 60019 AAC.dll) and tried to play in MPC.But still MPC crash.(Same as happened in BSN,thus I think there is no problem to BSN regarding feeding encoder). Thus it feels that only problem is the 3ivX splitter.

[menno]

Originally posted by Tuning
Well,I did a small test on account of your consideration menno,encoded a small mp3 file(48Khz) in nero wav editor(with 60019 AAC.dll) and tried to play in MPC.But still MPC crash.(Same as happened in BSN,thus I think there is no problem to BSN regarding feeding encoder). Thus it feels that only problem is the 3ivX splitter.

Well, yes, that is ALSO a problem :)

But this is a problem in the 3ivx splitter. They fixed it in recent builds, dunno if that is released yet or just beta.

Menno

[Tuning]

I need to know how the HE/LC switch is made depending the bitrates.I.e when is exactly HE used and when LC.(Some times even if you use HE ,we get LC as the encoding).Both in 2.0/5.1 situation.10X.

[menno]

Hmm, that's hard to say :) I don't make the presets. But when using CBR I think HE is used from 80kbps and lower.

Menno

[StoneRoses]

[off-topic]
This is a bit off topic. :)
My recommend software for playback AAC (and every other audio formats) is foobar2000. FB2k is the excellent music player for PC. With right component, it can play almost every auio format including multichannel AAC in both mp4 container or just plain AAC stream (.aac). IMHO, FB2k is the MPC for audio world.

Links
Official Website http://www.foobar2000.org/
Case's Special Installer (recommended) http://www.saunalahti.fi/~cse/html/foobar.html
Foobar2k Forum http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showforum=28

UI Customisation
Main windows - foobar2000 formating http://pelit.koillismaa.fi/fb2k/index.php
GUI - foobarlooks http://www.barciaonline.com/aural/foobarlooks/foobarlooks.htm

[/off-topic]

P.S. Thanks DSPGuru for making a very good transcoding utility.

[Tuning]

@StoneRoses

Thanks for the links.
BTW,I have a doubt.Do Foobar plugin play mulichannel files with correct channel mapping?

[StoneRoses]

Yep. AFAIK, Both Foobar mp4 component and CoreAAC use FAAD2 for decoding AAC. The channel mapping on both software should be same.

You can get latest foobar mp4 plugin and latest CoreAAC at this thread (john33's binary)
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=12915&hl=foo_mp4

Note: I suggest you to use foo_mp4.dll that come with case's special installer. It use FAAD2 code plus new mp4 tagging routine that fixed tagging bug. (I used AAC for compressing music to use with Apple's iPod (sync via iTunes), so mp4 tagging is very important for me)

[Tuning]

Thanks again.
I think the Winamp plugin is still incorrect,regarding channel mapping.

[Tuning]

Some more simple 5.1 HE/LC tests again.The new foobar and CoreAAC plugins are correct in channel order if we use the 6chold switch in BeSweet.
Winamp can correctly play in 5.1 if the Switch is 6chnew.
So again as expected the Winamps channel mapping not in order of requirement.

#Edit#
Oops....
Note:All tests besed on 60011 AAC.dll.Right Gaia?

[Gaia]

Originally posted by Tuning
Some more simple 5.1 HE/LC tests again.The new foobar and CoreAAC plugins are correct in channel order if we use the 6chold switch in BeSweet.
Winamp can correctly play in 5.1 if the Switch is 6chnew.
So again as expected the Winamps channel mapping not in order of requirement.

@ Tuning

If you use latest .dll's use always 6chnew. If you use old 6chold is right. Read Menno's answear about this "48 khz problem".

What versio of Winamp are you using? If you're using Winamp3 it's mp4 plugin is old and outdated. It's not going to be updated anymore.

Also cheack out this thread in Hydrogenaudio http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=14647&

Edit: You're also confusing some people because you don't say what .dll's you're using...

[Tuning]

I could understand the Menno's replay on 48Khz problem,and it is only to be with 60019 AAC.dll.
And sorry for generating confusion.what i was trying to do was to find correct channel mapping in WinAmp no matter what version of AAC plugin you use.Finally what I found is that you can only get correct channel mapping in winamp iff you use Old(60011)AAC.dll and set switch 6chnew.

When using new AAC.dll(60019)in no way I could find correct channel mapping both in 6chnew and 6chold switch.So what i was trying to bring-up is that the in_mp4 plugin for Winamp 2.9x/Winamp 5.0 is still incorrect regarding channel mapping.So if you are using new dll(60019) a new channel setting will be required or otherwise correct winamp's plugin.

For foobar and CoreAACDS,you quoted is right.To simply overcome the 48khz problem we need to downsample to 44khz while using new AAC.dll(60019).But still the down sampled file will not be playable in DS Media players untill the corrected 3ivX splitter is available.

BTW,I have already downloaded the latest plugins from the link provided by StoneRoses.

Hope everything is right....:rolleyes:

Bye:)

[sillKotscha]

sorry guys, this time I'm really too dumb to get it to work...

what exactly is needed??

- I have Oagmachine
- latest BeSweet
- and the bsn package (btw, the dlls in the package are different from latest BeSweetpackage - which dlls are preferred????)
- and of course Nero (v. 6.0.0.15)

I define the path in Oagmachine to the Ahead/Audioplugins but bsn config won't open...

ok, what shall I do???

1. have the Oagmachine folder
2. put in latest BeSweet with all corresponding dlls
3. put in bsn.exe
4. and last but not least define the Ahead_plugin_path

is this the way to go???

thanks in advance - Sill

[bobsc]

Originally posted by sillKotscha
ok, what shall I do???

1. have the Oagmachine folder
2. put in latest BeSweet with all corresponding dlls
3. put in bsn.exe
4. and last but not least define the Ahead_plugin_path
3. You don't need. 4. Doesn't seem to work, so you have to put the Nero dlls in your folder.

[sillKotscha]

ahh, thanks :rolleyes:

and one last: which nero dlls exactly??? only 2 are used, am I right???

there is a special wav_replace floating around for correct channel order in Nero concerning multichannel encoding... does it have to be in Oag_folder as well, or just stick with the nero one??

thanks again :)

[bobsc]

Aac.dll, aacenc32.dll, neroipp.dll that's it.

[sillKotscha]

thank you Sir !! :)

[filewalker]

But still the down sampled file will not be playable in DS Media players untill the corrected 3ivX splitter is available.
@Tuning
What you can try is to load the downsampled AAC file(.mp4) in MKVMerge and save it as MKA. So the MatroskaSource-->Matroska Splitter --> CoreAAC --> Audio Renderer come in use instead the 3ivX Splitter.
This works for me if I play back a 2.0 stereo HE AAC file(encoded with Nero 6.0.0.19).

Now I encoded a 5.1 with HE AAC with Oagmachine and saved it in Mkvmerge like described above as MKA. Playback works fine but I only have a 2 channel amplifier..so I can't test if the channel order is correct...

Maybe it works in this way...

edit: only CoreAAC Decoder works with MKA but not the NeroDigitalAudioDecoder

Cu filewalker

[Tuning]

Originally posted by filewalker
What you can try is to load the downsampled AAC file(.mp4) in MKVMerge and save it as MKA. So the MatroskaSource-->Matroska Splitter --> CoreAAC --> Audio Renderer come in use instead the 3ivX Splitter.

Thanks filewalker,I have never thought of this.I will try.All my tests were done with bare mp4 files.So this sounds to be working.Thanks again.
#EDIT#Playback works fine but I only have a 2 channel amplifier..so I can't test if the channel order is correct...
Channel order is as posted by Gaia.Use 6chnew if you are using new AAC.dll(60019),other wise use 6chold(60011).

-Tuning

[StoneRoses]

Tunning,

Mp4 file encoded with newer Nero has new feature for gapless playback (very important for live Music CD/DVD rip). Unfortunately current version 3ivx splitter (and Apple's iTunes) don't like it.

Here is another easy way to overcome 3ivx mp4 spliter bug. But you will lose gapless information (not so important for movie and music wip gap between track).

1. Open the file in FB2k.
2. Right click the track in main windows and choose "Extract AAC track" you will get .aac file.
3. Open the AAC file in foobar and then right click and choose "Convert to MP4"

The resulting mp4 file (no arbitary frame size) now can play fine in MPC using 3ivx splitter.

I don't know exactly about the incorrect channel mapping in Winamp, becuase I don't use it (FB2k is a lot better in my opinion). But if you encode the file using tool/parameters that produce correct channel mapping when playback in Winamp, your file is not a standard 5.1 AAC file anymore.

[Tuning]

Thanks for the comments Stone Roses,any way I'm going to try filewalker's idea.If it still not working then I might wait for the next version 3ivx splitter.
Bye.

[filewalker]

2003-08-18 Moritz Bunkus <moritz@bunkus.org>* mkvmerge: Implemented a switch that has to be used for SBR AAC / AAC+ / HE-AAC if the source file is an AAC file and the AAC file contains SBR AAC data (no automatic detection possible in this case!).
What I ask myself is if we should enable this option in the MKVmerge GUI if we encoded as HE AAC (in Nero options) but really got LC AAC file?
Should we generally use this option if we have a LC AAC file?


BTW. what is AAC+ and SBR AAC ? I didn't saw these presets in Nero, or?

Cu filewalker

[Wilbert]

What I ask myself is if we should enable this option in the MKVmerge GUI if we encoded as HE AAC (in Nero options) but really got LC AAC file?
Should we generally use this option if we have a LC AAC file?
No, only if you have a HE AAC.

Note HE AAC = AAC+ = SBR AAC. They are just different name for the same.

[Tuning]

Originally posted by filewalker
What I ask myself is if we should enable this option in the MKVmerge GUI if we encoded as HE AAC (in Nero options) but really got LC AAC file?
Should we generally use this option if we have a LC AAC file?
BTW. what is AAC+ and SBR AAC ? I didn't saw these presets in Nero, or?
I think it is not required now latest CoreAAC can identify the HE-AAC streams all by itself.
BTW,To my little knowledge AAC+ or SBR AAC is the same HE-AAC.
Am I wrong?
Edit:
wilbert you are quick!
:p

[tiki4]

I think this needs to be clarified:

The --aac-is-sbr switch is needed, if you mux an HE-AAC (AAC with SBR/AAC+) file (with ADTS headers) into a Matroska container. If your source is AAC in MP4 container (the default output of Nero) you do not need that switch as mkvmerge can extract that info correctly from the MP4 file header. And yes, HE-AAC = AAC+ = AAC with SBR.

tiki4

[filewalker]

If your source is AAC in MP4 container (the default output of Nero) you do not need that switch as mkvmerge can extract that info correctly from the MP4 file header.And yes, HE-AAC = AAC+ = AAC with SBR.
:) Thanks for clarification!

Cu filewalker

[StoneRoses]

Originally posted by Tuning
Thanks again.
I think the Winamp plugin is still incorrect,regarding channel mapping.

I reported this bug to Case yesterday, today he come up with the fix!
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=6428&st=100&&

[Tuning]

@StoneRoses
Still there is some more problems and I have reported it in HA forums.
Thanks.

[sillKotscha]

Originally posted by bobsc

3. You don't need. 4. Doesn't seem to work, so you have to put the Nero dlls in your folder.

sorry guys - I'm not able to get it to work ;(

my folder contains:

- Oagmachine
- latest BeSweet package (so, bsn.dll is included)
- as suggested the required dlls, as there are: aac.dll, aacenc32.dll and neroipp.dll

-> all I wanna do is a simple wav->aac transcoding but BeSweet immediatly closes with an error (I'm at work, so don't ask me for the error number - sorry Dg ;( ) but it says: "unable to configure bsn"

log.file posting (except for the error number) doesn't make really sense as there is nothing more than this 1 error...

what could cause this error? - what am I doing wrong??? Am I missing something??

hopefully I'm not that stupid or...

:stupid:

[filewalker]

@sillKotscha

You did the same as I did...strange that it doesn't work with Oagmachine/BeSweet/Nero dll's :rolleyes:
(I just copied the 3 dll's to the BeSweet folder. Maybe you transfered these dll's instead of only copying...:rolleyes: but who knows...


What happens if you try to encode your WAV-->AAC in Nero directly?
It should also work with Nero without problems...If it doesn't work with Nero,too..there could be a problem with your WAV file (maybe corrupted?).


edit: or your trial version of Nero( IIRC...only 30x encoding to AAC)is expired :D
Cu filewalker

[sillKotscha]

Originally posted by filewalker

What happens if you try to encode your WAV-->AAC in Nero directly?

it works with no problem...

my concern is:

- i've captured a movie but my sound is very odd and low noise
- if I transcode wav->aac the sound remains the same
- so at the moment that's my way to go: save wav, wav->wav with BeSweet (Hybrid method is used) and than wav->aac with nero

and that's why a working Oag_solution would be so nice ;)

but I gave almost up... I know it is my mistake - I'm doing something wrong but I don't know what or where as I'm doing the same as you - but who knows

cheers Sill

[filewalker]

I have been using the Oagmachine only for AC3-->AAC encoding until yet...so I've no experience with WAV-->AAC with Oagmachine(BeSweet) till now (I only tried it in Nero directly).

Maybe there's the problem...but other members'll maybe have experience with WAV-->AAC with Oagmachine.

Cu filewalker

[tiki4]

Maybe you should have posted your logfile anyway...

There is a problem if your output file doesn't contain a fully qualified path. Also, did you download BeSweet v1.4 first and copy 1.5b23 into this directory, overwriting the older files? Ah, anyhow please post your logfile.

tiki4

[Hobojobo]

@StoneRoses
I reported this bug to Case yesterday, today he come up with the fix!
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index....c=6428&st=100&&

I dl the in_m4.dll for Winamp. The fix does not work, at least not for me.
The center channel is gone, (all dialogs in my testfiles are gone.)
Does it work for you?

[Tuning]

The fix does not work, at least not for me.As mentioned in my previous post,the supposed_to_be_fixed_plugin is NOT FIXED.Follow the link to hydrogen audio and you can find the problems I have noticed.
Bye.:)

[tiki4]

I wonder.

While Winamp is great for playing MP3 or Ogg Vorbis or AAC or whatever, I don't see the point why to use it for multi channel movie soundtracks. I guess that's the reason the channel mapping is still wrong in in_mp4.dll.

tiki4

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by tiki4
Maybe you should have posted your logfile anyway...no doubt :o

[calinb]

Originally posted by sillKotscha
sorry guys - I'm not able to get it to work ;(
hopefully I'm not that stupid or...
sillKotscha,
No, I'm the stupid one because I'm pretty sure I've seen this but, for the life of me,I can't remember what I did to fix it. I've done a fair amount of 5.1 dts >> AAC with wav as the intermediate file.

I'll try to duplicate the error. Are you encoding 2ch or 6ch wav? How large are the wav files? I remember having trouble with large wav files, at one point, and switching to 5.1 aif but I don't think that was THIS problem :(

I also remember that OagMachine didn't work until I updated BSN. Do you have the latest versions of everything (except aac.dll, if you prefer the -6chold option)?

No, don't give up yet!

[sillKotscha]

oh thank you so much guys... but I have one big problem!! At the moment I haven't any internet connection at home to post the necessary logfile(s).

So all I'm doing is sitting at work recalling all encountered errors and posting them here... as far as I remember them correctly...

but back to business...

yes, it's a large wav file because as I said I've captured a movie in uncompressed pcm_wav format (44,1KHz)

your efforts are so much appreciated but it must be me who's so dumb, 'cause I don't even get a *.mpa to transcode...

same error message (error number 32 or 48 if I recall correct)... "unable to configure bsn"

I'll try to find a way to post my logfile

thanks in advance guys

ah, EDIT: it's a 2ch wav file

Sill

Edit2: ok, yes I've downloaded BeSweet 1.4 and replaced everything with latest BeSweet package... so I'm guessing bsn.dll included in the last package is the preferred one, or is there a seperate download that I am missing??...

[tiki4]

Should be the same bsn.dll (0.2).

Cheers,

tiki4

[Tuning]

Originally posted by tiki4
I wonder.

While Winamp is great for playing MP3 or Ogg Vorbis or AAC or whatever, I don't see the point why to use it for multi channel movie soundtracks. I guess that's the reason the channel mapping is still wrong in in_mp4.dll.
tiki4 I can understand that tiki4.But with all other players capable of correct MCP(Multichannel playing),why not with winamp?.By the way if you can encode in 5.1 HE-AAC the resulting file will be only 20-30% larger than 128kbps stereo mp3 file,and every body could exploit this phenomenon and use 5.1He-AAC,instead of 5.1 Ac3.(Dolby Digital audio CDs).This implies the need of proper multichannle decoding plugin.
Bye.

[calinb]

Originally posted by sillKotscha yes, it's a large wav file because as I said I've captured a movie in uncompressed pcm_wav format (44,1KHz)

<snip>

ah, EDIT: it's a 2ch wav file

As I recall, I had trouble with DD-wav files once they reached 2GB, so I went to aif. I'll try to "test" my memory with actual files tonight :) I have encoded some fairly large 2ch PCM wavs, but none larger than 2GB.

[StoneRoses]

Originally posted by Tuning
I can understand that tiki4.But with all other players capable of correct MCP(Multichannel playing),why not with winamp

Maybe it's time to swithch to foobar2000 :) he..he...

Tiki,
I think multichannel surround is the future for music too, consider DVD-A or SACD. I rip some of my concert DVDs (with good 5.1 mix) to 5.1 AAC music with overall bitrate around 250kbps (AAC-LC) sinc I've found AAC-HE is not enough for music.

[sillKotscha]

I found the way to solve my problem - finally ;)

1. I had to untick "show config dialog"
2. and guess what... now wav->aac with oagmachine with no problem and even better...
3. after I ticked "show config dialog" again than I finally could conigure aac options as wanted - yuuuchhuuuuu :)

so, thanks again for your efforts it was much appreciated

btw, good morning

Sill

[tiki4]

Originally posted by StoneRoses

I think multichannel surround is the future for music too, consider DVD-A or SACD. I rip some of my concert DVDs (with good 5.1 mix) to 5.1 AAC music with overall bitrate around 250kbps (AAC-LC) sinc I've found AAC-HE is not enough for music.

What do you think how I come to AAC. I'm waiting for a good multichannel format with smaller bitrate than AC3 since I came to this forum.

:)

[calinb]

Originally posted by sillKotscha
I found the way to solve my problem - finally ;)

1. I had to untick "show config dialog"Ugggh! Oh yeah-- now I remember unchecking that box (and rechecking it), but I never correlated THAT to the problem.

Good morning Sill (I should be in bed!)

[filewalker]

Nero 6.0.0.23 is out...though I couldn't find a changelog neither for Nero nor for aac encoding at Nero.com :rolleyes:

Cu filewalker

[Tuning]

From Menno's reply,the other day,he had said the next version of AAC encoder will have the 48khz problem solved.

[Aboo]

Hey, guys. Can anyone of you send me AAC dll's from this new Nero 6.0.0.23? I've got a licensed version, but i don't want to dl the 20 megabyte update with my modem just for new aac libs. I need aac.dll, neroIPP.dll and aacenc.dll
Thanks in advance.:D

[mikeson]

@Aboo:
Can anyone of you send me AAC dll's from this new Nero 6.0.0.23?
You must be kidding. :rolleyes:

[Aboo]

Waddya mean? Guys, that's just i'll have to pay for 2 hours of downloading Nero update, if someone won't help me.
Pleeease...:rolleyes:

[tiki4]

I don't think Ahead allows the redistribution of these libraries independent from Nero Burning ROM. Be warned that this forum considers such things very serious.

tiki4

[JasonFly]

I understand your problem aboo. Because I also have 56 k and and it's difficult to take the decision to take 1 hour of downloading for a new veersion of Nero.

I downloaded 6.0.0.23 thinking that the 48/44.1 khz "problem would have been solved but it still exists. What a pity! On hour of download fo nothing.

I would have been happy if I could have only these dll, but I also think that it's not legal. So you must have to download the whole package.

Next time, i'll ask in this thread before downloading.

A 56k frined.

[Tuning]

Next time, i'll ask in this thread before downloading.
I have asked tiki4 for the same testing,then I will download.
Hope tiki gets some time and could do testing...:D

[menno]

Originally posted by JasonFly
I downloaded 6.0.0.23 thinking that the 48/44.1 khz "problem would have been solved but it still exists. What a pity! On hour of download fo nothing.
[/B]

What 48kHz bug are you talking about? You mean the bug in all the frontends using the Nero DLL's? I don't think that is getting fixed in a new Nero version :)

Menno

[calinb]

Originally posted by tiki4
I don't think Ahead allows the redistribution of these libraries independent from Nero Burning ROM. Be warned that this forum considers such things very serious.tiki4
This may be true but, along with the "demo mode" of the downloaded product, I noticed there's a demo mode for just the DLLs too. I was bringing up a temporary build on one of my machines for the purpose of testing some software. I didn't want to install even as much as the NeroMix ap, so I just installed the DLLs and ran Oagmachine. Lo and behold, up pops a screen telling me I only have "x" days left to demo the AAC encoder. (I own the box version.) This wasn't an issue for me because I was only running some tests before nuking and repaving the drive anyway, but it also implies that anyone who doesn't own the product will only get a demo with just the DLLs. Given the limitations of this case, maybe Aboo's request isn't so unreasonable.

[menno]

Read the EULA

Menno

[KpeX]

@Aboo

Consider yourself warned. Such a distribution is not allowed. Please keep this thread on topic, and respect the forum rules and Ahead's licensing agreement.

[Ramirez]

I think this "48/44khz bug" issue requires some clarification.

I can confirm that starting from 6.0.023 build, Nero's own internal encoding application producing correctly playable 48 kHz Stereo/5.1 audio, however the problem still persist when a Frontend application like Oagmachine is used for encoding (as menno stated) I'm pretty sure this is just a minor problem and DSPguru will correct it shortly.

P.S
I never got a chance to thank DSPguru, so here I go...

Thank you very much! :)

[calinb]

Mostly, I thought it was kind of interesting that the AAC DLL alone has a demo mode. Given that this thread is about BeSweet+Nero, and the fact that the Nero AAC DLL must be used with BeSweet, I'd like to CMA and point out that my discovery is "on topic."

Now I'll go out on a topic "limb" :) a bit and say that I actually read the Nero EULA just now. (Something most of us <next> right past!) According to the EULA, only one copy of "the software," solely for backup or archival purposes, is allowed. Given that restriction, one could argue that users are not even permitted to copy the DLLs ("software") to multiple subdirectories on their hard drive, ie., your Nero Common folder and your BeSweet folder and your GKnot folder, etc.--though I guess it would be legal to move it back and forth. You also may not "reverse engineer" the software so, unless Nero has published a public spec, just how does one go about legally writing an application interface to the DLLs? Nevertheless, these concerns are very much secondary to good and fair judgement and keeping this board legal, which I very much support!

[Aboo]

Originally posted by JasonFly
I understand your problem aboo. Because I also have 56 k and and it's difficult to take the decision to take 1 hour of downloading for a new veersion of Nero.


No you don't! :p I have 33.6k modem. Pretty old piece of junk! :D ;)

[bobsc]

@calinb
Did you include aacmp32.dll?

[calinb]

No, but aacmp32.dll isn't on my system that has a licensed copy of NeroMix installed either. (I'm not using the other media features--only Mix for the AAC.) I've since finished my test and reformated my drive, but I'm pretty sure I didn't copy aacmp32.dll.