question about Rate Control Mode / CQ value?

[chet]

I have searched the forums and cannot find a simple answer to my question anywhere.

I'm using dvd2svcd, with TMPGenc, CQ setting.

I'm wondering, what is TMPGenc / DVD2SVCD doing when it scans through the movie several times? Is there any quicker way?

Or shouldn't I be using CQ setting?

My log:

--------------------------------------------------------
- 1/10/2003 5:02:37 PM
- Free on drive C: 5359.68 mb
- Video Encoding using TMPGEnc
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 1320835967 (1289879kb)
Predicted: 860100398 (839942kb) Using CQ Value: 80.00
Calculated next CQ Value: 99.78
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 1320835967 (1289879kb)
Predicted: 1726914274 (1686440kb) Using CQ Value: 99.78
Calculated next CQ Value: 85.98
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 1320835967 (1289879kb)
Predicted: 1110939105 (1084901kb) Using CQ Value: 85.98
Calculated next CQ Value: 93.48
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 1320835967 (1289879kb)
Predicted: 1531677023 (1495778kb) Using CQ Value: 93.48
Calculated next CQ Value: 85.91
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 1320835967 (1289879kb)
Predicted: 1105328267 (1079422kb) Using CQ Value: 85.91
Calculated next CQ Value: 93.65
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 1320835967 (1289879kb)
Predicted: 1539162300 (1503088kb) Using CQ Value: 93.65
Calculated next CQ Value: 85.83
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 1320835967 (1289879kb)
Predicted: 1100207081 (1074421kb) Using CQ Value: 85.83
Calculated next CQ Value: 93.78
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 1320835967 (1289879kb)
Predicted: 1545725355 (1509497kb) Using CQ Value: 93.78
Calculated next CQ Value: 85.75
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 1320835967 (1289879kb)
Predicted: 1094370634 (1068721kb) Using CQ Value: 85.75
Calculated next CQ Value: 93.95
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 1320835967 (1289879kb)
Predicted: 1553586073 (1517174kb) Using CQ Value: 93.95
Calculated next CQ Value: 85.67
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\a\software\tmpgenc plus\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\TMPGEnc_Project_file.tpr" /Encode /Close

[telemike]

What DVD2SVCD is doing is sampling the movie to determine the best CQ vale to fill the number of discs that are specified in the bitrate tab.

If you want to spend more time you can do a 2-pass VBR or for less time you can guess the CQ value and end up with 1 1/3 discs full of video instead of filling up two discs.

[chet]

so you're saying 2-pass VBR takes longer?! I was going to do this next time.

should my CQ be doing that many tests?

[telemike]

Compare the time it takes to do all the samples to get the CQ value with the time it takes to encode the whole movie in TMPGenc. IF the sample times are less, then it is faster than 2-pass VBR.

To get faster you will need to switch to CCE and use Tylo's plugin for 1-pass VBR. It takes less time to determine the values to fillup "x" number of cd's.

Alternatively, you can go to www.kvcd.net (http://) and use some prgrams there for estimation that are faster for TMPGenc.

:)

[Ewoud]

What is KVCD of KDVD exactly?

A new type of compression or encoding?
How do you use it, like a plugin on wich program or
like a standalone app?
If used on DVD to create a DVD, what does it do to the quality
compared to "uncompressed" MPEG-2...

I read you can store 6 hours on a DVD, so it's like an SVCD
with less compression, and better quality?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Ewoud
[B]What is KVCD of KDVD exactly?

A new type of compression or encoding?

No, simply a set of tricks to eliminate more info from the source, hopefully without losing quality, and hence encode in less space.

www.kvcd.net is full of info about the method. In general its visitors are seen as children of a lesser god by members of this community, but they have done important discoveries indeed. You're welcome to visit them and make your own judgement.

[kwag]

Originally posted by r6d2
In general its visitors are seen as children of a lesser god by members of this community
:D LOL
That's a good one r6d2.
Very good!

Here's more information for Ewoud: http://www.kvcd.org/portal/articles.php?lng=en&pg=20

-kwag

[DDogg]

r6d2 has a deft touch with a phrase and the keyboard :)

Anyway, I don't think it is a lesser god thing as much as it is that some people want to adher to SVCD standards so that their encodes will always play on whatever, whenever. The original KVCD was a pretty non standard encode. That does not make it a bad thing, but it certainly makes it an issue for many. Other than that, I think there is a lot of good stuff to learn from Kwag's methods.

Now that we have RoBa, FACAR, the D2SRoBa Plugin and good compression filters/scripts (many identified by Kwag and crew), I think you can get nearly the same job done and stay in the svcd standard, or at least close enough to make kvcd not as attractive as it used to be. Still there is a lot of good stuff over there when you are willing to dig a bit. I know I learned a lot from the KVCD site.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by DDogg
Now that we have RoBa, FACAR, the D2SRoBa Plugin and good compression filters/scripts (many identified by Kwag and crew), I think you can get nearly the same job done and stay in the svcd standard, or at least close enough to make kvcd not as attractive as it used to be.
I agree with you, but about the standards thing... If you are really purist, SVCD require 44.1 Audio, which I bet almost no one uses, and just setting Audio+Video<=2756 does not guarantee a compliant encode either. The mux rate and other things might surpass the 2x limit. There is also the scan header/seq. alignment unckecking, etc.

The SVCDs we generally encode also suffer from some sort of "deviation" ;)

Kwag just took that to a further limit.

Standards, anyway, are not done by a rigurous specification. They become such when they are adopted by the masses.

And we are too off topic here and we may get our butts kicked, according to the standards :D

[kwag]

Originally posted by DDogg
Now that we have RoBa, FACAR, the D2SRoBa Plugin and good compression filters/scripts (many identified by Kwag and crew), I think you can get nearly the same job done and stay in the svcd standard, or at least close enough to make kvcd not as attractive as it used to be.
Just remember that all KVCD techniques have also been applied to KDVD, which is 100% DVD compliant ;)

-kwag

[telemike]

http://www.geocities.com/r6d2_stuff/IdiotsGuide/index

[Ewoud]

I don't understand it, this guide, what does it say? What is it about?

:(

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Ewoud
I don't understand it, this guide, what does it say? What is it about?
Read the title and you'll get an idea. That generaly works. ;)

[Ewoud]

hahaha, i was only kidding since you named this guide for completely idiots!

No, it is great overal cursus to DVD backupping holds. :)
I even placed it in my favorites for the reverence of some terms later.

[chet]

telemike wrote:Compare the time it takes to do all the samples to get the CQ value with the time it takes to encode the whole movie in TMPGenc. IF the sample times are less, then it is faster than 2-pass VBR.
huh? I'm still not sure which Rate Control Mode I should be using.

I am still using tmpgenc, not cce (can't get my hands on a copy).

[telemike]

Simple words:

Use CQ mode with TMPGenc. It takes less time ro encode than using 2-pass VBR.

[chet]

ok, thanks man. I am pretty impressed with my results thus far.

[chet]

how do the 2 modes compare quality-wise?

[r6d2]

Originally posted by chet
how do the 2 modes compare quality-wise?
This is almost a forbidden question. However, I personally cannot tell the difference.

But you have to make your own judgment.