How about using AAC for Music Collection

[Sirber]

Vorbis is quite good indeed, and free. But above 2 channels, it sucks badly. :(

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Sirber
Vorbis is quite good indeed, and free. But above 2 channels, it sucks badly. :( Agreed. Even WMA 6Ch audio @ 128kbps sounds better... Sorry!

Cheers

[Sirber]

is AAC @5.1 good at 128kbps?

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by Sirber
is AAC @5.1 good at 128kbps?

I believe it's pretty much unbeatable if you use HE AAC.

[Ramirez]

IIRC HE-AAC was developed for use in low-bitrate portable devices only
I can hardly believe that HE-AAC 5.1 can beat LC-AAC 5.1 quality wise...

[Stux]

Low bitrate HE-AAC beats low bitrate LC-AAC

Soooo Low bitrate MC-HE-AAC will beat low bitrate MC-LC-AAC

I don't find this surprising ;)

5.1 in 128kbps is very very low bitrate

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by Ramirez
IIRC HE-AAC was developed for use in low-bitrate portable devices only

Definitely not.

Insomuch that there are several HE AAC implementations for desktops (most of them based on FAAD2), but none on portables.

I can hardly believe that HE-AAC 5.1 can beat LC-AAC 5.1 quality wise...

Erm... that's the HE AAC purpose. :B

According to the MPEG specifications, a well implemented HE AAC encoder offers the same quality as an LC AAC encoder at at least 30% smaller bitrates.

[Tuning]

Today is the last day to poll on this thread.The time set during posting was 10days[From Sep20-Sep30].Any one missed? Poll today!.

@rjamorim
What is the optimum bitrate for 5.1 AAC? :)

[bond]

Originally posted by Tuning
What is the optimum bitrate for 5.1 AAC?hm, i dont think that there is an optimum bitrate, you will have to test that for yourself (how it will sound on your 5.1 system) :)

but i would say 192kbps would be ok, cause that would be 32kbps per channel (the same as in stereo 64kbps files) of course i know that there are things like joint stereo, channel coupling too ;)

[Tuning]

i would say 192kbps would be ok, cause that would be 32kbps per channel
Is this of HE_AAC?Then what for LC_AAC?

-Tuning
Thanks bond:)

[bond]

Originally posted by Tuning
Is this of HE_AAC?Then what for LC_AAC?chrishjw once released a mkv sample from star wars which included 5.1 lc-aac sound at 128kbps and it also wasnt that bad imho...

so the best would be really to try it for yourself ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well,

Sorry to go on about the M$ WMA 6Ch audio codec. But I have to say I was rather impressed with it. Especially at the lowest bitrate of 128kbps.

However what is useful (for testing purposes anyway), is that you can easily run any bitrate 6Ch WMA file thru the WinMedia Encoder 9 application and convert it to another bitrate 6Ch WMA file!

So it's possible to create say, a 6Ch WMA file at 768kpbs and down convert it to 128kbps later. An entire 120min movie sound track only takes a few minutes to do.... amazing!

Anyway. I promise to do more M$ bashing in future!

Cheers

[Sirber]

I hope so, jeez :devil: What were you thinking about? :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Sirber
I hope so, jeez :devil: What were you thinking about? :D I know. 80 votes later and nothing for M$, must mean something! Well, to M$ anyway.

Just imagine if big Bill G was dead. He would be spinning in his grave at this polls result!

Cheers again.

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Sorry to go on about the M$ WMA 6Ch audio codec.no, no, no, we dont want to hear that
stop that plz :D

you can easily run any bitrate 6Ch WMA file thru the WinMedia Encoder 9 application and convert it to another bitrate 6Ch WMA file!
So it's possible to create say, a 6Ch WMA file at 768kpbs and down convert it to 128kbps later. An entire 120min movie sound track only takes a few minutes to do.... amazing!hm, afaik thats called bitrate peeling (changing the bitrate without reencoding) but i never read somewhere that wma (pro or std) can do that (and i am sure m$ would have announced it everywhere so that every dumb ass would know that they support bp)
so i think the stream just gets reencoded at a lower bitrate, like any codec can do!?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
no, no, no, we dont want to hear that
stop that plz :D

hm, afaik thats called bitrate peeling (changing the bitrate without reencoding) but i never read somewhere that wma (pro or std) can do that (and i am sure m$ would have announced it everywhere so that every dumb ass would know that they support bp)
so i think the stream just gets reencoded at a lower bitrate, like any codec can do!? Yep, but it's so damned fast at doing it. Even when using the 2pass VBR setting!

Cheers

[Ramirez]

Originally posted by rjamorim
Definitely not.

Insomuch that there are several HE AAC implementations for desktops (most of them based on FAAD2), but none on portables.

HE-AAC ATM currently locked in range of (CBR MODE-32/96KBPS max), (VBR MODE 30/40 50/70 KBPS max); I'd say it's definitely looks more suitable for a portable devices sector. But that's not the point anyway...
Originally posted by rjamorim
Erm... that's the HE AAC purpose. :B

I know what HE-AAC is :P and the whole fuss around it is greatly overhyped,there is nothing really astonishing about it IMHO.

I was referring to Sirber's question really, and as I said there is no way ATM for HE-AAC (MAX Quality) 6CH track to deliver the same results as LC- AAC 128kb/s encoded track delivers, it's insane...
Originally posted by rjamorim
According to the MPEG specifications, a well implemented HE AAC encoder offers the same quality as an LC AAC encoder at at least 30% smaller bitrates.
We'll wait for such an encoder to come out (AFAIK it does not exist yet...)

[Sirber]

SMD, we SO don't care. Continu and I'll request a strike on you :devil:

[SeeMoreDigital]

Ok best mate! Message recieved and understood!

Cheers

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by Ramirez
I know what HE-AAC is :P and the whole fuss around it is greatly overhyped,there is nothing really astonishing about it IMHO.

Well, in my humble opinion, I think the only astonishing feature of HE AAC is that it~s better than any other codec at the bitrate range it operates....

I was referring to Sirber's question really, and as I said there is no way ATM for HE-AAC (MAX Quality) 6CH track to deliver the same results as LC- AAC 128kb/s encoded track delivers, it's insane...

I didn't do any 6ch test on HE AAC, so I can't comment, really.

We'll wait for such an encoder to come out (AFAIK it does not exist yet...)

Erm... Nero HE AAC is quite better than LC AAC (on stereo at least). I don't know if it's better by 30%, but it's definitely better nevethless.

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by Sirber
SMD, we SO don't care. Continu and I'll request a strike on you :devil:

What the...

Isn't this thread also about discussing WMA? :confused:

[Sirber]

You wanna be striked too? ;)

Since WMA got 0 vote, why should we talk about it? :D

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by Sirber
You wanna be striked too? ;)

Go ahead. That just proves how childish some things are here.

"He is talking about a bad format! Strike him! Free speech only applies to 1337 formats"

Since WMA got 0 vote, why should we talk about it? :D

Well, MPC isn't even mentioned, and still people talked about it without being threatened by strikes later.

At least, WMA is being mentioned there. I don't see why a serious discussion demands that people vote on that format. But it seems pretty obvious that people don't want to take this discussion seriously.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Please guys,

Don't fall out, especially over me. I'm really not worth it!

Sirber is only joking....

Besides I know where he lives. So if he ever striked me, I could very easily "send the boys round"! :D

Cheers

[Sirber]

Is the meaning of the word "fun" forbidden on doom9? :confused:

[sillKotscha]

Sirber... as you quoted youself, you are a nerd - period!!!

fun is obvious to everyone - sarcasm is not.

I was following this poll with interest, now - as rjamorim stated - it is flawed by your "serious" discussion...

cheers Sill

[Soulhunter]

I use Monkeys Audio for my CD backups and MP3 for listening purpose...

Ive considered to change to AAC when theres a bit more playback support for it ! ;)

Last time I tryed WavPack's hybrid mode (has free adjustable bitrate) but I'm not sure about the results...

My question...

Has someone here played around with WavPack ???

Would be happy to hear some opinions about it... ;)

Bye

[Sirber]

I used wavepack long time ago, but IMO APE is better.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well, I must admit I have not used any of the new lossless (is that correct) audio formats yet. But I suppose if it's possible to 'back up' audio CD tracks at less than a wav files original 1411kbps, without loosing quality, can't be all bad!

Cheers

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Has someone here played around with WavPack ???

You can find some interesting comments (look for posts by den) at HydrogenAudio:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=12554
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=8416

Regards;

Roberto.

[Tuning]

As above quoted why everybody using lossless codecs if u have so much lowbitrate transparent lossy codecs.Only thing i found useful to use lossless is to create Audio CDs.Any other use?.Most of the new lossy codecs give indistinguishable quality from original @ >160kbps.Then why?


Tuning

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Tuning,

I guess people are talking about lossless audio codecs now because that's the sort of thing that happens as a thread grows!

Maybe if you had been more specific in your 'subject' thread head, and opening post, your thread may not have moved in a direction you're not happy with!

But don't feel bad, as this kind of thing happens all the time on other peoples threads (especially mine) too!

Maybe we should have a specific 'lossless' audio and video codec discussion section on the forum. However I fear that many newbie members would find the terms 'lossless' and 'lossy' rather confusing!

Godda keep thinking about the newbies. We were all one at sometime!

All in all it's been a great and interesting thread.

Cheers

[Tuning]

I guess people are talking about lossless audio codecs now because that's the sort of thing that happens as a thread grows!
Maybe if you had been more specific in your 'subject' thread head, and opening post, your thread may not have moved in a direction you're not happy with!

But don't feel bad, as this kind of thing happens all the time.


Sorry SMD the accent of my post was not meant to feel bad.It was a general Q why the people use lossless codecs? and i really want to know.
It is right that i can be more specific in the subject and could use more options.But i could not edit the poll as i'm not a moderator.
But the Q thread was a tricky one if u notice.I asked them How about using AAC?.I was in fovour to AAC and thought most members will poll aac.It did not made any action as u can see now>we have vorbis at the top.

As the thread grown and reading the comments my priority to AAC began to fall and after doing my own tests i found what the quality of Vorbis.After that things changed and i started to use Ogg Vorbis for the music.

The next thing that i will loook forward is the use of HE-AAC.It is a demanding audio compression method as u get good quality at very low bitrate.

:D-Tuning

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Tuning

As the thread grown and reading the comments my priority to AAC began to fall and after doing my own tests i found what the quality of Vorbis.After that things changed and i started to use Ogg Vorbis for the music. In my opinion AAC will come thru in the end because it promises so much flexibility. When you consider how long AAC has been around I think it's a real shame that it's not more widely used.

Hopefully this will change when NeroDigital finally arrives. At last we will have a Mpeg4 video with the possibility of multi channel audio, in an Mp4 container!

With multi channel audio in mind. Is there anybody out there who could email me an AAC/Mp4 multichannel file. Just something I could use to test my speaker set up.

Something like... "Front Left - Centre - Front Right - Rear Left - Rear Right - LFE" would do!

Maybe Mr Bond could oblige!

Cheers

[Soulhunter]

Thanks rjamorim !!! :D

I read up a bit and decided to play around a bit more with WavPack's lossy mode... :D

Bye

[bond]

SMD,

you can find a nice multichannel test wav file on mausaus nero plugin page, try that for aac/mp4 test encoding

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks bond

I'll search it out

Cheers

[Sirber]

With Adobe Audition (old Cool Edit Pro), there is a new "Best quality" mode for mp3PRO. It seems 25% slower on encoding. I'll do some tests to see the quality change.