Dvd9 to dvd5 with TOP QUALITY

[crazymike]

I've been making svcd's with dvd2svcd since at least year, I've always enjoyed the great quality of CCE (dvd2svcd), with 2 800MB cd's and a movie under 1:30 I could get almost dvd quality it was really hard to find any diferences, but with 3 cd backup it was totaly impossible to find diferences at all.
But svcd had some problems, the main one having to change between 3cd's and the lack of 5.1 dolby digital sound and the extras are always a good thing to have so I boght a dvd-r player but even toght InstantCopy 7 is a good program I notice that with bigger movies its hard to get decent quality so you have to cut on extras such has dts sound and some subtitles and even after that and with 3.5GB only for the movie (excluding sub and sound and extras) the quality some is inferior to the svcd's I created with dvd2svcd sometimes even worst that the ones I used 2 cd's 1600MB (and this with subtitles and sound).

So since it cant be from the file format (since both use MPG2) that I get this huge diferentce in quality, after all the dvd's I'm making with IC7 have more tham the doble of the svcd's bitrate I guess it can only be from the encoder, if with svcd's I would be more tham happy with having 2GB only for the movie why I'm not happy with the results of having more tham 3GB.

So the question is is there any program that can compress dvd9 2 dvd5 in one step with out loosing has much quality has IC7 and still with out loosing menus and extra's ? Speed isnt important to me I dont mind wasting 7hours (even toght with my PC and CCE with dvd2svcd was possible to compress a movie in 2 hours with much greater quality tham IC7).

[DonBerg]

Try DVDshrink 3.0beta5.
But only a slower multipass encoder like CCE or TMPGenc would give higher quality at lower bitrates (smaller files) - but SVCD also used a smaller resolution so that allowed for lower bitrate plus smaller stereo audio files.
You can use DVD shrink's reauthor feature to just put the movie alone without extras for higher quality - you can even split it up to 2 DVDs for uncompressed original quality.
There is also a program called DVDFab that will split one DVD to two DVD-Rs at full quality, putting all the extras on one DVD and some of the movie, finishing the movie on the 2nd DVD-R.
Since you are used to multiple CDs for SVCDs, use 2 DVD-Rs for ull quality as the original DVD.

[crazymike]

First of all thanks for the quick reply.

-I've already checked some reviews about dvd2shrkink and it seems eventoght it takes less time that IC7 it also has less quality wich isnt good for me.
-About using 2 dvd-r's its completly out the question since that is exacly the maine reason why I boght the dvd-r, and plus the disavatadge that each dvd-r costs 6 times more a cd. So in the end I would finish with two dvd-r that have (to me) comparable quality to a 3svcd solution and that would cost 4 times more, with the only adavantage of having the extras and 5.1 sound.
- About the menus and extras I really dont want to lose them. If I wanted there would be the easy way I would just have to use dvd2dvd (dvd2svcd) that is a all in one solution that uses CCE or TMPG enc to make dvd's but I dont want to use it exacly because it doesnt have menus or extras.

What I really need is some all in one program , that uses TMPENC or CCE ( CCE is much faster and has better quality) and has the ability to maintain the extras (menus)

[-JS-]

Such a program doesn't exist, and it is somewhat the holy grail of dvd backups! The best you can do at the moment is the DoItFast4U / DoCCE4U / Reauthorist method

[maa]

I havn't used CCE but by all accounts it is the best.
I've been more interested in the command structure and DVD programming in general.

I have this idea - what do you think:

Rip the whole DVD to HD.
1. Open the films vts_x_0.ifo and export the CellTimes (they usually coincide with the chapters so we can add them in later)
2. Demux with VobEdit
3. Compress to DVD compatible stream the way you know how to with CCE (but let me know how its done 'cause I have no idea)
4. Re-Author with IfoEdit (I hope its Pal because NTSC is apparently buggy) using the CellTimes.txt and the original audio tracks
4. Import the menus into the vts_01_0.IFO with the "merge menu" function.
5. Re-name vts_01_0.IFO/VOB to what it should be in the original DVD structure and move it there.
6. Open the original Video_ts.ifo and and hit "Get VTS Sectors"

Test

[crazymike]

Originally posted by -JS-
Such a program doesn't exist, and it is somewhat the holy grail of dvd backups! The best you can do at the moment is the DoItFast4U / DoCCE4U / Reauthorist method

Its a pety :( it would be a great thing, it would be great to see a all in one program that is able to use CCE and still keep the extras. How about a guide anybody knows one ? I'm going to do a search on doitfast4u and doCCE4U.

Update: By the way anybody can please tell me where to get dvdshrink 3.0.5 just to check if its worth for some movies. I can only get 2.3 ou of doom9 or the official website.

[ElGamal]

I've used this program from day 1, and i think that is the best for dvd-9 to dvd-5 conversion. But only for movies not for extras.
This isn't a problem for me, i only want the movie.

It uses CCE for enconding, and lets you choose any audio or subtitles .

The quality as you my know is excellent.

You could also take a look at the new dvd2svcd, becouse now lets you do dvd-9 to dvd-5 conversions.

Hope this helps.

[DVDRFreak]

Originally posted by crazymike
Its a pety :( it would be a great thing, it would be great to see a all in one program that is able to use CCE and still keep the extras. How about a guide anybody knows one ? I'm going to do a search on doitfast4u and doCCE4U.

Update: By the way anybody can please tell me where to get dvdshrink 3.0.5 just to check if its worth for some movies. I can only get 2.3 ou of doom9 or the official website.

I used DoItFast4U and DoCCE4U. It is very compicated but it will result in a DVD of amazing quality if you get the menu to work properly.

Now I use Nero Recode to compress those DVD's that I want to keep the extra's for. Quality is good (CCE is better) and it is easy.

Movie only I do usally also with Nero Recode. I first reauthor the DVD to contain the stuff I want (rip it with DoCCE4U) and then transcode it with Nero Recode. If the quality is acceptable I keep it if not I recode the video with CCE.

For PAL DVD's DVD2DVDr works perfect. If you are an NTSC user you still can use it but you will need to reauthor with a NTSC compliant authoring tool (not ifoedit).

The DVDshrink 3.0b5 can be found at the official site. www.DVDshrink.org under the link where.

[crazymike]

El gamal I've tryed dvd2dvr its a great program too, it seems better tham dvd2dvd (dvd2svcd), even toght dvd2dvd has the ability to add external subtitles and to use avi sources, but the quality has always is fabulose even toght in the first compression I got the sound and video out of sync, but the problem is it doesnt have menus suport just like dvd2dvd but I will use them for big movies that dont have any extras, that if I cant handle the out of sync problems.

DvdRfreak do you know any good guide how to do what you sugest with CCE ?
Thanks for the link I've already tryed that site but I missed it was in the end of the page.

[MackemX]

http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=66

have a wander into this forum and you will find all the help you need to use CCE based methods :)

[Kedirekin]

Another approach I like is a hybrid approach. This works best if the main movie is a title set all by itself (for example, VTS_02_* is the movie and nothing else).

I use DVDShrink to compress the extras to, say, 70%. I leave the movie and menus on uncompressed. This results in oversized output, but that's all part of the plan.

I then use the oversized output from DVDShrink in the Big 3 (DIF4U, DoCCE4U, Reauthorist), but only do the main movie.

I like this approach because, in my experience, the Big 3 often completely trashes extras. Extras are often interlaced, and the Big 3's default processing deinterlaces them, which I find ugly. I could go through and manually set the processing for each extra, but that's too time consuming for me - I find the hybrid approach is easier.

The end result is a DVD with the main movie compressed by CCE, extras compressed by DVDShrink (at an acceptable level) and no compression on menus.

The hybrid process isn't always possible though. If you're working with an original disk where half the space is taken up by extras, there simply isn't enough room left (at 70%) to get an acceptable bitrate for the main movie, even using CCE. Which is an excellent segway into my next point.

Sometimes there is no way to get acceptable quality without splitting to two disks. One of my favorite approaches for that is to run DVDShrink twice: once to compress extras to still frames (leaving maximum space for the movie), and again to compress the main movie to still frames (which often leaves ample space for everything else at uncompressed). You can also combine this with the hybrid approach - compress all extras to still frames and movie with no compression, then put that oversized output through the Big 3.

[Kedirekin]

I wanted to address this point specifically.

if with svcd's I would be more tham happy with having 2GB only for the movie why I'm not happy with the results of having more tham 3GB.

DVD resolution is 1½ times the resolution of SVCD. So going from 2GB SVCD to 3GB DVD is just breaking even as far as resolution is concerned.

Add in the fact that DVD usually has more audio streams, and the bitrate of those audio streams is higher than SVCD, *and* the fact that IC7 is not as good as CCE, and you end up with much lower quality.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by Kedirekin
Sometimes there is no way to get acceptable quality without splitting to two disks. One of my favorite approaches for that is to run DVDShrink twice: once to compress extras to still frames (leaving maximum space for the movie), and again to compress the main movie to still frames (which often leaves ample space for everything else at uncompressed). You can also combine this with the hybrid approach - compress all extras to still frames and movie with no compression, then put that oversized output through the Big 3.
using stills still wastes precious space, just get rid of them completely

one method is to use menuedit and delete all the extras VOB's to blank VOB's leaving maximum space for the first disc and then delete the movie VOB's for the 2nd or do it manually using Ifoedit using blank VOB's

VOB's that have the movie/extras all in one titleset, just strip VOB ID's instead

[m1482]

@Kedirekin:

Add in the fact that DVD usually has more audio streams, and the bitrate of those audio streams is higher than SVCD, *and* the fact that IC7 is not as good as CCE, and you end up with much lower quality.
Sorry my friend but that is not correct!!!

SVCD's made with CCE doesn't have better quality than DVD's made with IC. I agree that DVD's made using CCE or TMPG will have better quality than using IC, but not SVCD's. In terms fo resolution and max bitrate, SVCD's standards doesn' allowed to have a picture quality comparable to DVD (even if you use IC, DVD2one, DVD95Copy, DVDShrink, etc.for DVD against CCE for SVCD)...

[Kedirekin]

True, stills do waste space.

But it's all a balance. I'm really in to maximizing quality while minimizing effort and risk. In my experience, removing things from the DVD makes my player stop if I accidentally try to access them, which I really hate.

I have to plead ignorance though - I've never tried menuedit. The issue reports when it first came out made me shy away. Does it remove or disable the buttons for the things you remove so you can't accidentally try to access them?

[Kedirekin]

@m1482

You are correct, depending on your defintion of quality.

In my opinion, an SVCD at 480x480 with no macroblock noise and little mosquito noise has better quality than a DVD at 720x480 with lots of macroblock noise and mosquito noise.

Perhaps it's better to say that IC7 can produce better quality than SVCD, but it can also produce much worse quality. As in all things, it depends.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by Kedirekin
True, stills do waste space.

But it's all a balance. I'm really in to maximizing quality while minimizing effort and risk. In my experience, removing things from the DVD makes my player stop if I accidentally try to access them, which I really hate.

I have to plead ignorance though - I've never tried menuedit. The issue reports when it first came out made me shy away. Does it remove or disable the buttons for the things you remove so you can't accidentally try to access them? http://menuedit.dimad.net/home.html
it does quite a lot now and I think the free version delete the buttons etc, there's no harm in trying it as it's very easy to use. You are right it all depends on what your quality acceptance level is and how much effort it takes to get it that depends on your methods

your DVD stopping is because the structure has been broken, but there are guides to remove stuff without upsetting it so even the fussiest of players will play stuff that are quite easily to follow and once mastered don't need that much effort

check out 2COOL's excellent guides and you can't go wrong
TITLE STRIPPING GUIDES:
How To Blank Out a Single PGC TitleSet (Optimized for Speed) (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60533)
How To Completely Blank Out a Multi-PGC TitleSet (Version 1) (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60542)
How To Completely Blank Out a Multi-PGC TitleSet (Version 2 Optimized) (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60788) (FLASH VERSION here) (http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/backup/guides/multiple.htm)
How To Partially Blank Out a Multi-PGC TitleSet (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60596)
A Quicker Way to Stripping Multi-PGC Titles (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=367148#post367148)

Originally posted by Kedirekin
@In my opinion, an SVCD at 480x480 with no macroblock noise and little mosquito noise has better quality than a DVD at 720x480 with lots of macroblock noise and mosquito noise.

Perhaps it's better to say that IC7 can produce better quality than SVCD, but it can also produce much worse quality. As in all things, it depends. the size of the image displayed by whatever you use to view it will also have an effect on the quality (see 2nd line of sig)

[snidely]

Why is everyone so interested in keeping menus and extras? I mean, you do own the original, right? So you can always access them if necessary (though I have no idea why anybody would want to), so why waste precious disc space on them? I want my backups to contain the movie only, with no menus, extras, FBI warnings, etc. to make life miserable, with the movie starting right at the studio logo and using the audio track of choice as default (since I ripped the others out). A lot of the time the results using DVDShrink 3 beta 5 will be just fine, since very little or no compression will be needed. The rest of the time, just reencode using DVD2DVD/CCE and you are golden. Simple, effective, and top quality. :)

If you insist on retaining all the extra stuff, then you have 2 choices:

1. Split the DVD9 to two DVD5's - no loss of quality, but you will have to make a disc swap.

2. Use something like the Big 3 and/or DVDShrink (like Kedirekin suggested) to reduce down to a DVD5 - there will ALWAYS be a loss of quality, but you can control where and when.

[nyplayer]

snidely

The answer is simple "Because They Feel Like it"....How people choose to make thier backups is simply up to the individual.

[JFerguson]

And... I HATE loaning out my masters! :(

[snidely]

nyplayer,

Gotcha, and I agree. I am just bewildered as to why people would even want to keep this garbage, but like you said, it is a matter of individual preference. The only exception I have found is in regards to episodic DVD's. I agree that it is nice to have the menu available so that you can choose which episode you want to watch.

I would rather have a top notch backup of the movie only than to have a mediocre backup containing the menus and/or extras, but that's just me. I edited my post above to reflect the options available for those who wish to keep the menus and extras.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by snidely
A lot of the time the results using DVDShrink 3 beta 5 will be just fine, since very little or no compression will be needed. The rest of the time, just reencode using DVD2DVD/CCE and you are golden. Simple, effective, and top quality. :) all down to personal preferences I suppose, 'to each his own' ;)

I think the split was quite even regarding movie only or movie+extras fans judging by a poll I did ages ago. I can't find the thread though

DVDShrink may be simple but I don't think DVD2DVD/CCE is simple for the majority of people :)

:EDIT: DOH, left this on preview instead of posting 20 minutes ago

[TheDigster]

Here is a guide (in Dutch) - on another forum you might want to check out.. it's on how to use the 'big3' with a simple dvd compressing everything with CCE retaining (that's 'to keep' right?) the menu's/extra's...

http://dadude.eternalnintendo.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=315

[hypo20]

Look at my post.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=61516