(Forced) Subtitles with dvd2dvd

[69Mws]

Hi there,

at the moment it's possible to check the subs you wanna keep or checking "forced subs only".

What about combining those two? For example in my case I want the english subs complete but from the german subs only the "forced parts".

Would that be possible?

Greetz
69Mws

[mrbass]

How do you tell they are forced subs? Is there an easy way to tell?

[69Mws]

Originally posted by mrbass
How do you tell they are forced subs? Is there an easy way to tell?

Well, that's the tricky part, 'cause there are two ways to implement forced subs (at least I don't know more than two).

Method 1:
The forced subs are implemented into a "normal" sub-track and some "blabla" inside is flagged as forced.

Method 2:
The other method would be to place forced subs into an own subtrack. When you select for example to play the movie in english, english audio is launched and the corresponding subtrack which contains the forced english subs (unless you didn't select permanent subs from the menu of course). In that case there is no special flag of course, as it's just a "normal" sub-track which is simply switched on.

One method to check manually would be SubRip. It's used for extracting subs to bitmaps in order to reauthor them later again with DVDMaestro for example. You need the whole Titleset for checking (VTS_xx.IFO and the corresponding vobs), 'cause you have to open the ifo in Subrip.

You could check the subs of your desired languages with the option "Forced Subs Only" activated (it's placed in the "Global Options" dialogue if you wanna give it a try).

If there are no forced subs but there are more sub-tracks of the same language you could also check them with the option "Forced Subs Only" deactivated (-> Method 2)

In that case all blabla of the sub will be extracted, I think you can tell by a look if these are then forced subs or just other stuff.

An easy way to check if forced subs are implemented with my mentioned "Method 2" would be to simply check on your Software-/Standaloneplayer: select your desired audio, launch the movie and then check if also a sub-track has been automatically activated.

Sometimes DVDDecrypter shows you in IFO-Mode if a sub-track contains just forced subs, but from my experiences you can't rely on that, 'cause this seems to be just kinda "label" inside the ifo and this sub-track will be switched on anyway by commands inside the ifo whether it's labeled as forced or not.

I hope I didn't write now all that stuff and you already know that all :D ;)

Greetz
69Mws

[r6d2]

I selected Forced subs in LOTR:TTT and apparently DVD2SVCD did not find any. It crashed with the following message:

--------------------------------------------------------
- 30/09/2003 21:40:33
- Free on drive H: 7806.83 mb
- Extracting the subtitles.
--------------------------------------------------------

Subtitle extraction finished. Extracted these subtitles:
SVCD Stream no: 1 Language: Español Num. of subs: 0

Saving Subtitle Timecodes.
Permanent subtitles.
EAccessViolation Access violation at address 00639746 in module 'DVD2SVCD.exe'. Read of address 00000000

Has anyone experienced this? I supposed the "Force Subs" flags meant "if any". Perhaps you must be sure first that there are forced subs indeed, or the software crashes :confused:

[windtrader]

I did LOTR TT with DVD2DVD - English language with forced subtitles. It did find them and brought them across without crashing.

I don't have the log from that run to show.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by windtrader
I did LOTR TT with DVD2DVD - English language with forced subtitles. It did find them and brought them across without crashing.

Interesting. Perhaps the translations don't have forced subs... I'll try the English sub track to see if I can use that.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by r6d2
Interesting. Perhaps the translations don't have forced subs... I'll try the English sub track to see if I can use that.
Did not work either.

I selected the secondary sub tracks for English and Spanish with no luck also. Funny thing is DVD2SVCD finds about secondary subtitles, but they are all a bunch of empty black bitmaps!

I guess I'll never know what those elfs are talking till I read the book. Or perhaps even after that :)

[windtrader]

Are you doing the whole movie or just sampling a part of it?

I don't know where all the forced subs are but the one I use to check is at chapter 30 (of 53), about 4 seconds after the start.

I did check the PCGITI in the VTS IFO and the cell info does not make any mention of forced subs there. That would make sense since the subtitle is forced on for a few seconds then switched back off in the same cell.

That means the switch that controls forced subs this likely in the VOB itself. I loaded it up in VOBEDIT and could not find anything obvious that indicated a sub was specified. It is probably in there but it just gave me a headache to wade through that level of complexity. :-)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by windtrader
[B]Are you doing the whole movie or just sampling a part of it?
All of it.
It is probably in there but it just gave me a headache to wade through that level of complexity. :-)
I couldn't mess with that even if I tried. ;)

[DivXerouS]

I have been trying to learn about Forced Subtitles for a while now but never came across a movie that had any until now.

First off to begin with I am also going to be using CVD Selectable Subtitles as well as Foeced Subtitles. But after reading the methods on this thread I became even more confused, so now Im asking for a step by step method to detect all the forced Subtitles and to be able to play them correctly in conjunction with the English Subtitles I will be playing as well.

The general information I had was that the Forced Subtitles are played regardless thus they are somewhat permanently embedded in the picture so when the get turned "on" won't they just get encoded as permanent subtitles. I am a little confused.

:confused:

[ralphthedog]

"permanent" subs are actually encoded into the picture, so there's no turning on or off or whatever.

Forced subs on a DVD, when they are in a seperate stream are easy enough to spot, like elves speaking on LOTR, when you preview the subs in DVD2SVCD and encode as permanent (Although how you would also add selectable CVD subs at the same time is beyond me).

I also would really like to know how to deal with forced subs in a "normal" subtitle stream being turned on, then off again for the elves, aliens or whatever. I just encountered this recently and had no idea it was done like this, and even less of an idea how to deal with it DVD2SVCD-wise.

[bobwillis]

Hi ralphthedog,

Forced subtitles within a normal stream are handled in the usual way by DVD2DVD. In other words, check the forced box, and only the subs that are forced will be extracted and encoded. Unfortunately, there is no way of retaining the full stream as a separate subtitle stream. This technique worked with Battle of Britain (R1), A Bridge too far (R2), LOTR;ROTK (R2) etc.

Regards,
Bob

[ralphthedog]

Thanks Bobwillis.

I was having trouble with a backup that would select the whole stream regardless or the forced subs checkbox being ticked(must have been the DVD's fault)or not. Have been fiddling with another DVD with the same type of forced subs., and as you say, it works very nicely indeed!