RV9/VFW GUI: Surreal UI (aborted)

[Sirber]

I'm proud of giving you this info. Surreal UI webpage and CVS is ready. Some code is already on it. This piece of software was created to mux two needs: dvd backup and anime batch encoding. The UI looks like RealAnime, but with AVISynth support, per-file settings, vorbis support, multiple subtitles support and Matroska output support. The core is 100% opensource.

Main programmers:
Sirber
ZeDude

Input: AVI, D2V, AC3, MP3, WAV
Output: RMVB, OGM, MKV, SMIL

Language: Delphi 7
Status: Aborted
Version: ??

Sources: http://www.webernic.com/sites/sirber/Surreal UI.rar

More infos will be avalible soon. Stay tuned!!! :D

News:

September 15:
Here's a preview of the dev version at this state. Not much things works. Any comments are welcome, except thigs like: "This will suck hard" :D. Also, we'll be looking for help for: avs2avi + VFW codecs, OGM support and text conversion (AINSI --> UTF8, etc).

URL: removed

September 16:
Planning to add support for XviD, DivX 5.1 Pro, Windows Media 9 and VSS H.264. Also, planning to support AVI and OGM. New preview online.

September 19:
Removed H264 support and finished the UI. The things present in the UI at this time is the planned features for release v1.0. I really want to finish the class manager and begin the cool part: encoding with it!!! :D

October 12:
Still in dev. Getting file infos works using DirectShow feature of AVISynth and avsWARP. To get the full story check my lastest (today) post.

October 13:
I rewrote my AVI loader. Now I use AVISource with no sound (works way faster then DirectShowSource). Added D2V support. I'm writing the procedute to take the stored settings and apply them to the form. Then I'll do the form2memory. After that, I'll just need to finish the jobfile producer and Surreal UI may be able to work for RealVideo with no sound.

October 25:
settings2form working. now I'm at form2settings.

October 30:
form2settings 50% finished.

November 2:
form2settings finished. I'm building the audio / subs tabs to work with the framework. Also, AVI loading works. D2V loading works, form2settings and settings2form tested and working properly. Audio tab working, Subs tab working.

Next to do:
* Resize
* Load / Save settings to file
* Load / Save projects
* Settings --> jobfile (wrapper)
* Settings --> AVS
* Batch Encoding Manager (TM)
* VFW interface
* Executable monitoring
* Muxers
* Preview

Asked features:
* Constant Quality

Status: 60% done.

November 21:
I'm thinking about moving to GNU GPL instead of RPSL. I'm also moving the whole project on my own server for better management.

January 16:
Crop is completed (for AVI/AVS): I'm doing memory optimization. Next will be resize (linked with the crop). Then, I'll create the jobfile/avisynth wrapper.

Febuary 11:
Project aborted. ALl planned features will go in RealAnime. Sources will be posted if someone is interrested to takeover the project.

[iwod]

Any chance you would change your mind to use C++??

Personally i am happy with Delphi, because that means user will no longer have to download a stupid runtime to use RV9.

However i am doing mind with C++.... so i am just wondering should i contiue to do so or not.

[Sirber]

hum... We choosed Delphi over VB6 coz Delphi don't need extra DLLs and works everywhere. Building a GUI in C++ is far too long and complicated.

[Sirber]

One thing interresting, is I might be able to add XviD/DivX/WMV9 support to Surreal UI using avs2avi...

[superdump]

That could be cool. The first DivX/XviD/WMV9/RV9 all-in-one program! :) And then you could add NeroDigital via some directshow thing. :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by superdump
That could be cool. The first DivX/XviD/WMV9/RV9 all-in-one program! :) And then you could add NeroDigital via some directshow thing. :D Not quite! Sorenson Media Squeeze 3.5 already allows much of this. However you'll have to sell your soul to the Devil to be able to afford it!

Sirber, ZeDude. This sounds like it'll be a great little application. What else do you need to speed the build process along?

Cheers

[Sirber]

Some people with free time? :D We are looking for people to participate. It's open-sources and hosted on HelixCommunity.

[superdump]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
However you'll have to sell your soul to the Devil to be able to afford it!

I should have added first free all-in-one util... though there are probably others.

Originally posted by Sirber
Some people with free time? :D We are looking for people to participate.

I, as will many I'm sure, will test it when it's up to the point where there's a publicly (or privately) available binary that has good functionality even if incomplete. Until then...

:)

[Sirber]

there is always a binary in the CVS, but at current state only the UI part is almost working :)

I have to focus on the classesfor the per-file settings.

[Sirber]

Added a preview

[superdump]

Sirber: Thanks for providing the preview. To be quite honest it's looking pretty awesome.

Just a couple of comments :D:

1. You might want to resize it to make it a bit larger. Then you can fit in more features _and_ it won't look so cramped! :D

2. On the Video>RealVideo tab there's a typo where it says "Max KeyFrame Interaval". It should be "Interval". :B

3. Why is dropdupe in both the Video>RealVideo tab and the Filters>Producer/Other tab?

4. There is a typo in the title of the "Filters">"Procuder/Other" tab. It should read "Producer". Another ":B". :)

5. Could you add ".ogg" and ".aac" (and probably ".mp4") to the audio sources when matroska or ogm are selected (i.e. whenever it is valid to allow those sources).

6. Under the filters section I think it would be good if you added another tab named "Advanced/Manual Scripting" which contains a check box for "Manual scripting" which disables the script generation via the menu options from previous tabs and also it should contain a reasonably sized text box for manual scripting. :) Crop sizes can be left in though, I think.

7. Avi output support may be appreciated by some, just for the hell of it. :)

Bloody fast and good work Sir! (ber ;)) Well done. I look forward to using this. :)

Oh... 8. Ability to rip DVD and create d2v file. (note, you should use donald's [neuron2] fixed mpeg2dec3 and dvd2avi) :B

Thanks

[Sirber]

1. You might want to resize it to make it a bit larger. Then you can fit in more features _and_ it won't look so cramped!

hum... If I use bigger frame, I'll have more unused space.

2. On the Video>RealVideo tab there's a typo where it says "Max KeyFrame Interaval". It should be "Interval". :B

:eek: Ok :) I'll correct it.

3. Why is dropdupe in both the Video>RealVideo tab and the Filters>Producer/Other tab?

in Video, it's for the logging, and in Filters, it's for using it :)

4. There is a typo in the title of the "Filters">"Procuder/Other" tab. It should read "Producer". Another ":B".

LOL Thanks :) That's why alpha build stand for ;)

5. Could you add ".ogg" and ".aac" (and probably ".mp4") to the audio sources when matroska or ogm are selected (i.e. whenever it is valid to allow those sources).

Every audio source will be transfered to wave prior encoding, so if besweet handle OGG and AAC source, I can add them :)

6. Under the filters section I think it would be good if you added another tab named "Advanced/Manual Scripting" which contains a check box for "Manual scripting" which disables the script generation via the menu options from previous tabs and also it should contain a reasonably sized text box for manual scripting. Crop sizes can be left in though, I think.

I'll add buttons leading to manual scripts/job editor in "output" tab.

7. Avi output support may be appreciated by some, just for the hell of it.

Hum... I can't store much stuff into AVI, and I don,t have any muxer in commandline :(

8. Ability to rip DVD and create d2v file. (note, you should use donald's [neuron2] fixed mpeg2dec3 and dvd2avi) :B

you can load D2V in input tab. I can't add more, DVD-Ripping isn't very legal :D

Thanks for the feedback, at least 1 people is interrested :( :D

[superdump]

Originally posted by Sirber
1. You might want to resize it to make it a bit larger. Then you can fit in more features _and_ it won't look so cramped!

hum... If I use bigger frame, I'll have more unused space.

OK.

3. Why is dropdupe in both the Video>RealVideo tab and the Filters>Producer/Other tab?

in Video, it's for the logging, and in Filters, it's for using it :)

Also OK. :)

5. Could you add ".ogg" and ".aac" (and probably ".mp4") to the audio sources when matroska or ogm are selected (i.e. whenever it is valid to allow those sources).

Every audio source will be transfered to wave prior encoding, so if besweet handle OGG and AAC source, I can add them :)

In that case I assume you'll add some besweet options to the gui... :)

6. Under the filters section I think it would be good if you added another tab named "Advanced/Manual Scripting" which contains a check box for "Manual scripting" which disables the script generation via the menu options from previous tabs and also it should contain a reasonably sized text box for manual scripting. Crop sizes can be left in though, I think.

I'll add buttons leading to manual scripts/job editor in "output" tab.

cool

7. Avi output support may be appreciated by some, just for the hell of it.

Hum... I can't store much stuff into AVI, and I don,t have any muxer in commandline :(

What will you be using to make matroska and ogg media files? mkvmerge and ogmuxer? alexnoe is working on a scripting interface for avimux-gui. I would use that when it's stable enough for regular use.

[Sirber]

Included apps will be:

mkvmerge
avs2avi
besweet

What I'm looking for is:

AVI commandline muxer
OGM commandline muxer

New preview avalible. I'm working on the array of objects for the per-file settings. Jeez it will take some time :) Too much options to save...

[RadicalEd]

OGM commandline muxer

http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/ogmtools/ogmmerge.1.html
Cyrius' old tools might do the trick.

[Sirber]

ha!!! Thanks! Excatly what I was looking for :D

[superdump]

XviD settings:

Quants should not be capped by default! Max/Min I-frame intervals should be 10*fps / 1 respectively. If you cannot do the former then default to 300.

Looking good. :)

[bond]

hm, looks nice

the first question which arised for me is

which option in rv9 is the b-frame option (which the "quant")?

[Mosu]

Originally posted by RadicalEd
http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/ogmtools/ogmmerge.1.html
Cyrius' old tools might do the trick.

My 'ogmtools' (as given on the URL) are for Linux/Unix only. Use cyrius' tools: http://cyrius.bunkus.org/

[Sirber]

Originally posted by bond
which option in rv9 is the b-frame option (which the "quant")? the one with a slider is the quant and the one with the dropdown menu is the number of frames :)

Originally posted by superdump
Quants should not be capped by default! Max/Min I-frame intervals should be 10*fps / 1 respectively. If you cannot do the former then default to 300.Nothing is capped. If you set wrong settings it will just produce a serie of 6 blue screens that will spreed to the local network, causing financial and social breakdown ;)

[bond]

Originally posted by Sirber
the one with a slider is the quant and the one with the dropdown menu is the number of frames:D i am not so dumb to not check that...

i wanted to know how b-frames are called in helix producer (or where to specify the b-frame settings in an audience file)

[Sirber]

hihihihihi :D

Check this thread by my good friend Karl:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60712

[bond]

thanks ;)

[superdump]

Originally posted by Sirber
Nothing is capped. If you set wrong settings it will just produce a serie of 6 blue screens that will spreed to the local network, causing financial and social breakdown ;)

If you look at the preview executable you've uploaded and look in the Video>XviD>Quantization tab, you should note that the min/max I and P frame quantizers have been set to 2/6 and 2/12 respectively. They should be set to 2/31 for both. If people want to cap quantizers then let them, but don't make it the default.

[Sirber]

k

Will be done. I set by default settings I usualy use :D

[RadicalEd]

Originally posted by Mosu
My 'ogmtools' (as given on the URL) are for Linux/Unix only. Use cyrius' tools: http://cyrius.bunkus.org/

whoops, I hunted down ogmdemux and it's readme on my HDD and then quick saw
OGMDemuxer is inspired by ogmdemux (by Moritz Bunkus)
ogmdemux is part of ogmtools by Moritz Bunkus
For more information on ogmtools, you can see this page :
http://www.bunkus.org
and didn't take the time to notice ogmtools != cyrius' tools :o



Sirber, a few things;

1. I'd suggest including all the audio codec bitrates for the sake of low bitrate and completion (cook can go down to 6 kbps mono) and maybe the older cook versions (pre-RA8) for the sake of compatibility and completion.

2. You might want to find a way to use dev-api-4 for XviD (once it's stable of course). What's H.264 doing on the codecs list anyway O_o

3. You should probably include quant/quality modes for the codecs that support them.

4. AVI output is useless with RA8 and vorbis audio codecs, so you might want to throw lame into the mix. RALF too.

5. Some sort of numbering on the custom BF quant for RealVideo.

6. Add Fastest to EHQ

7. Maybe a way to use only audio input (would require some changes to the audio tab though)

8. psnr log


There's some stuff to consider :D

[Sirber]

1. I'd suggest including all the audio codec bitrates for the sake of low bitrate and completion (cook can go down to 6 kbps mono) and maybe the older cook versions (pre-RA8) for the sake of compatibility and completion.

What about Spiro?

2. You might want to find a way to use dev-api-4 for XviD (once it's stable of course). What's H.264 doing on the codecs list anyway O_o

Only dev-api-3 is avalible to public, H264 is there for testing and experimentation (VSS codec)

3. You should probably include quant/quality modes for the codecs that support them.

You mean presets?

4. AVI output is useless with RA8 and vorbis audio codecs, so you might want to throw lame into the mix. RALF too.

With selected codecs, container will be enabled or not.

5. Some sort of numbering on the custom BF quant for RealVideo.

doh!

6. Add Fastest to EHQ

ok

7. Maybe a way to use only audio input (would require some changes to the audio tab though)

Nope. Surreal UI is for V/A conversion :)

8. psnr log

Maybe at the total end, Me, myself and I have to code per-file settings :(

[SeeMoreDigital]

Sirber,

Is all this work on this project costing you any money?

Do you require donations?

Cheers

[superdump]

2. You might want to find a way to use dev-api-4 for XviD (once it's stable of course). What's H.264 doing on the codecs list anyway O_o

Only dev-api-3 is avalible to public, H264 is there for testing and experimentation (VSS codec)

He did say "once it's stable".

3. You should probably include quant/quality modes for the codecs that support them.

You mean presets?

No, he means constant quantizer/quality modes in divx/xvid/etc

8. psnr log

Maybe at the total end, Me, myself and I have to code per-file settings :(

Hehe. That would probably be quite useful but not immediately necessary.

Keep up the good work Sirber. :)

[Sirber]

3. You should probably include quant/quality modes for the codecs that support them.

You mean presets?

No, he means constant quantizer/quality modes in divx/xvid/etc

Hum... the main purpose of Surreal UI is AVI/DVD encoding for 1 or less CD (until mkvmerge will be able to cut mkv streams), si this need bitrate for calculation. This may change with builds in the futur :)

Sirber,

Is all this work on this project costing you any money?

Do you require donations?

CheersNo. I'm doing it on freetime. So the project cost me food, water and some electricity :D. No donation required. It's free and opensource, and patent free :D

[Sirber]

final preview. The UI won't change much til the 1.0 release.

[superdump]

Still looking good Sirber, now get it working! :D

[Sirber]

Sir yes Sir :D

[superdump]

Do you have a progress report for us Sirber? :)

[Sirber]

hum...

I got some access violation related to array in a class outside the main form. I found a work-around. Now I'm trying to figure out how to manipulate arrays (adding: ok, removing: hazardeous). IMO the producer/avisynth part will work in 3-5 weeks, maybe 3-4 more weeks for the VFW interface.

The jobfile creator is dev, and avisynth is null, the GUI handling is dev.

[Sirber]

Still fighting with access violation related to "delete in array". When fixed, I'll be able to keep the settings for each file into memory and apply them on file change. The next step will be to get infos from the loaded file with AVISynth. The only problem is that I won't support AVS opening, coz AVS can't get infos from itself :).

Stay tuned!

[edit]

Good news guys, no more access violation. I forgot to initialize a variable to 0 :confused:. Do you see now how VB corrupts the mind? :devil: Going to start settings management of the settings between the files tomorrow!!! :D

[Sirber]

I can get infos using avsWARP and DirectShow. The good news is that it works, the bad news is that it can take forever loading movies (AVI) from network drives (haven't tested it more than 30 sec). Now I'm linking the settings manager to the form elements. This is long and boring. Good news is that I'm in vacation for 1 week, so I might get a working release for RV9 next weekend (read basic version).

Stay tuned! :D

[Sirber]

I found a new programmer. Things will go faster :)

doom9 nickname: Shinobu

[Sirber]

News:

form2settings 50% finished. Once this will be finished, is will be very easy to get it working.

[Sirber]

form2settings finished. I'm building the audio / subs tabs to work with the framework. Also, AVI loading works.

[edit]

D2V loading works, form2settings and settings2form tested and working properly. Audio tab working, Subs tab working.

Next to do:
* Resize
* Load / Save settings to file
* Load / Save projects
* Settings --> jobfile (wrapper)
* Settings --> AVS
* Batch Encoding Manager (TM)
* VFW interface
* Executable monitoring
* Muxers
* Preview

Asked features:
* Constant Quality

[Shinobu]

Thank for the CQ add ^^

++

[Sirber]

BTW, you're one who asked it and you'll be the one coding it :p lol

[superdump]

How's it going now Sirber? Any ETA? Any new news?

[Sirber]

hum... news news news :)

I'm about to finish school, so not much time these days. I'm thinking about leaving Helix Community and move the project to GNU GPL. Once licensing issues are resolved, I might have a working version for D2V/AVI --> RV9 in few weeks.

ToDo:
- Resize/Crop
- AVISynth interface and filter order
- BeSweet interface
- MkvMerge interface
- OgmMerge interface
- producer interface
- VFW interface

- Install CVS server
- Build website
- Build forum

I think that's all :)

[TFC]

Wow a lot of work to do :)
Nice nice keep up the good job! :D


++
TFC

[Sirber]

I'm leaving Helix Community. I moved all the project under GNU GPL (for my code) instead of RPSL. I'm building my own server with HTTP and CVS to host it myself. This will take some time. I'm finishing school in 2 weeks, so I'll have more time for SUI. I can't wait to use it ^^

[superdump]

I don't suppose you could alter it in whatever ways necessary so it functions perfectly with XviD 1.0.0 beta 1 could you? :)

Thanks

[Sirber]

Yeah, no prob, but my first goal is to get working D2V/AVI --> RV9/8/G2. VFW will come after.

[Sirber]

News:

Surreal UI is not dead. I'm gonna finish the RealVideo part soon. As a comparison, Surreal UI is 6 times more complicated than RealAnime :)

I just finished school last friday and I begin fulltime work this very morning :D

[hoola]

thanks for your work sirber.. i am excited for Surreal UI.

[Sirber]

RealAnime 1.22SE will be the lastest for a while :o, I'm back on Surreal UI :D.

[Sirber]

News:

Done: Crop calculation for D2V
In progress: Crop calculation for AVI/AVS
Next: Resize calculation

[Sirber]

News:

I **finnaly** succeded to save in RAM the 4 bitmap to calculate the crop. Each loaded AVI takes about 5 MB of RAM. I'll try to optimize the whole thing then it works :). I'm ready now to calculate the crop for AVI.

Done: Resize for AVI/AVS (mod16)

[PkmoNk]

not sure if this is a dumb question, but why no mpeg input?

[Sirber]

Coz I have no tools to handle the MPEG container. :)

News:

I'm currently stuck in violation of an access :D

If someone oculd give me a hand, I would be really gratefull :D

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68026

Thanks!!!! :D

[Sirber]

News:
- Added a "Please Wait..." screen while loading a file, my tests takes 30 seconds to load :D
- (AVI) Crop is completed, but need to be ajusted
- (AVI) Resize is coded, need to be tested and linkd to the crop

New bugs found:
- Removing files don't free up memory
- Loding HDTV clip uses up to 30 MB of RAM (each time)
- Resize gives me insane results: 1824x1040, 1808x11280680. 1792x1024 :devil:

Bug fixed:
- (AVI) Crop was causing 3 EInvalidPointer and delphi only told me EAccessViolation in assembly :devil:

Currently testing with: matrix_1920x1088_16x9_trellis_VHQ4.avi (which don't play smoothly on my machine)

[Sirber]

News:
- Optimized loading: auto crop calculated at load, less RAM needed after
- (AVI) Resize fixed

ToDo:
- Add HE-AAC and AAC
- Remove old audio codecs
- Remove OGM support
- Producer's jobfile creator
- AVIsynth script creator
- Producer management
- Build a webpage

Final Codec list:
Video: RealVideo (10, 9 ,8), XviD, VP6
Audio: spiro, cook, he-aac, vorbis, aac, "keep source"
Container: rmvb, matroska

I can't wait to use Surreal UI, so I'll make a first release with Real codecs only, basic AVISynth support and matroska support. I'll ask you guys later about filters chain order.

Stay tuned :D

[superdump]

Why do you want to remove OGM support?

[Sirber]

OGM don't support half of the codecs included with Surreal UI... :(

[superdump]

Hmm. I see that it would take a bit of effort to disable certain codecs if someone selected ogm as the output, but it wouldn't be that much work would it? If it is then it's fair to remove it I guess. :)

[Sirber]

By default I propose "RMVB" as default, but if the user choose options that RMVB don't support, like dual audio, subs, vorbis, I'll switch to matroska and disable realmedia output. Matroska outperform OGM widely and is better supported (IMHO).

[Tuning]

Sirber,
Is it possible to do a compressibility test on Real files. (Something like in GK?) ?. If it can be included in SureRealUI, then very nice.

One more feature request..
Please include an option of : encoding audio before video. Then only correct compressibility test works.

Btw, how compressibility on real video be done manually??

Thanks.:)

[Sirber]

I've read something about CQ@78, but I'm not sure. Audio will be encoded before (or at the same time if using producer with 1 audio track).

[Tuning]

Originally posted by Sirber
I've read something about CQ@78, but I'm not sure. Audio will be encoded before (or at the same time if using producer with 1 audio track).

Hi again,

If BeSweet is used and audio is encoded first, there are many other possibilities..like using the features like gain etc...now AAC can also be produced...even vorbis can be muxed to mkv with real video..then your built coding will help adding custom audio too...so as result ac3 or dts can be muxed. So alltogether much more complication, but extensive options to users. What do you think?
(As mkv will be most preffered container, the audio support is vast). similarly subtitle support is another interest.

[Sirber]

I will use BeSweet, no decent GUI can live whitout it :D

[Sirber]

Hi

I have bad news :(. I might close the dev of Surreal UI and concentrate in building RealAnime with Shinobu. All planned features will move on RealAnime, like DVD, XviD and VP6 support.

I will post the sources in case someone wants to continue the project.

[Sirber]

Here's the source:

http://www.webernic.com/sites/sirber/Surreal UI.rar

[Kaiousama]

Are you going to keep realanime coded in vb or you are planning to port RealAnime in Delphi language?

[Sirber]

We are moving to Delphi. We got stuck in VB6 limitations.