Cutting credits question

[29ways]

I was wondering if you could cut the credits to a movie and still keep the menu on a movie. I notice that when you re-author in dvd shrink you end up with movie-only. I'm I doing it wrong, or is there an actual method?

[MackemX]

not with DVDShrink but there are other ways to do it

I think I will have a simple guide to do this later today if you do not find a way

[MackemX]

I thought the free Menuedit allowed you do what was needed but it doesn't so I guess the guide is no good for you

I know you can do it with a bit of tweaking in Ifoedit and no doubt there are other ways to do it also

sorry :(

[maa]

Quick Guide:
When shrinking make sure to allow for the menu VOB (they can be up to one Giga!)
Use re-author mode for the film - trim end - and then open the vts_01_1.ifo in IfoEdit and in the menu - "merge menu tables" with the original.
After that move all Vobs and this modified IFO back to your original film directory.

Edit:
Two more things should be done.
The number of chapters may have changed so open the Video_ts.ifo and in VMG_PTT_SRPT note the number of chapters and change the original Video_ts.ifo accordingly.
The commands from the original vts_01_0.ifo (or which ever the film was) in VTS_PGCITTI / VTS_PGC_1 need transfering to the new one manually, either with the right mouse dropdown on the "PGC Command table" or with a double click and transfering the hex numbers with Ctrl+C Ctrl+V.

[gnipooldd]

Hi all. :)

maa, what does "merge menu" do exactly? ;)

[maa]

"merge menu" actually doesn't "merge" at all - it should say "import menu" which is what it does. The menu commands are imported into the shrink IFO that normally has no menu and after replacement in the original directory you press "Get VTS sectors" and see how the menu VOB is re-instated. After that it should work as before.

[gnipooldd]

Thanks for the explanation, maa, I apreciate it. :)

[maa]

Hey gnipooldd - I like your guides - well done!I shall have to try Burnatonce to see if It can solve my MiniDVD issues.
(I have a stand alone that doesn't play self burned UDF at all - only ISO and only on a real DVD +-R. If its a CD it will start in file mode - UDF shows no disc or autoeject.)

[MackemX]

gnipooldd, I notice your avatar is very similar to another person's icon, in fact it's the same just like your guides :)

gnipooldd :insert mirror: ddlooping :p

hi mate :)

p.s. not that your sig gives it away ;)

[gnipooldd]

@ maa,
Thanks for the positive feedback. :)
Let us know if "Burnatonce" works for you. ;)

@ MackemX,
Hi dude. :)
I registered as ddlooping months ago but wasn't able to view any thread or to post when logged in.
I gave up after having sent 2 emails to the doom9 admin and not receiving any replies; I created a new account. ;)

[maa]

Yes - will do.
I added somthing to the quick guide so don't miss that and let me know if you can do it.....

[2COOL]

Originally posted by maa
"merge menu" actually doesn't "merge" at all - it should say "import menu" which is what it does. The menu commands are imported into the shrink IFO that normally has no menu and after replacement in the original directory you press "Get VTS sectors" and see how the menu VOB is re-instated. After that it should work as before.
merge menu...imports menu...merge menu...imports menu...

Yep!I can see the gears working in my mind already. hmmm....

@gnipooldd

uhhh...Welcome to the Forum? LOL

In regards to your reversed userid...I see! said the blind man.:p I knew there can only be one digital dunkin' doughnut.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by 2COOL
merge menu...imports menu...merge menu...import menu...

I can see the gears working in my mind. hmmm....


LOL, I see you have the same disease as me :D

[2COOL]

Originally posted by MackemX
LOL, I see you have the same disease as me :D

MackemX,

We could form a partnership and call ourselves, 2X. :p

[MackemX]

Originally posted by 2COOL
MackemX,

We could form a partnership and call ourselves, 2X. :p :D

[gnipooldd]

@ maa,

"I added something to the quick guide so don't miss that and let me know if you can do it"

I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean. :confused:

@ 2COOL,

Thanks for the welcome. :)

[maa]

I mean I modified this post:

Guide to adding a shortened "Shrunk" film back into the original DVD structure. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=369763#post369763)

:)

[gnipooldd]

Oh ok, thanks maa. :)

[MackemX]

I'm testing another method to do this that in theory works :D

it involves cropping the movie start/end credits then simpy replacing the new VOB's back in the original and doing the old stripping to fix pointers trick

maybe the IFO may need a couple of figures changing depending on a couple of things but that's part of the fun ain't it :D

back later with results :p

[MackemX]

1st attempt didn't work but I think it's cos I also cut the start credits and removed a soundtrack so I'm just going to try cutting end credits and leaving sound etc but copying @100% which takes 4 minutes to process instead of 15 and then reduce afterwards

Ifoedit did try to correct the pointers and it did seem to work as the chapters etc played ok but they were 20 seconds behind as as I'd chopped the beginning :)

[gnutellafan]

Originally posted by 29ways
I was wondering if you could cut the credits to a movie and still keep the menu on a movie. I notice that when you re-author in dvd shrink you end up with movie-only. I'm I doing it wrong, or is there an actual method?

This is not currently supported iin DVDShrink as the rest of the thread indicates. However you can go over to the dvd shrink forums @ digital-digest.com and request this feature in your "3 top feature requests" thread.

I have proposed that this feature could be implemented by replacing the cut out portion of the film with a black screen then changing the entry point in the ifo file to the point at which the film actually starts. This would allow DVDShrink to implement the feature while preserving the structure and thus keeping the programing more straight forward.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by gnutellafan
I have proposed that this feature could be implemented by replacing the cut out portion of the film with a black screen then changing the entry point in the ifo file to the point at which the film actually starts. This would allow DVDShrink to implement the feature while preserving the structure and thus keeping the programing more straight forward.
yep, inserting blank 0.xx entries is always been the way that's been suggested as it has alwyas worked for me by sticking blanks in or changing the sectors, yet none of the programs have took it up apart from one which was looked promising and that was DVD95Copy but that would just replace all the PGC's in a Titleset with a 0.xx blank entry and not offer single titlesets or VOBID/Cell replacments

it's a shame it stopped there as I thought it was going to progress further into replacing parts of a DVD but sadly it hasn't

I can get IC8 to remove stuff by using dirty Ifoedits but the IFO's are not 100% valid and I haven't looked deeper into it since I started using Menuedit as it does the job of replacing a cell with a blank in a few clicks, so end credits can simply be replaced with a 0.xx blank

With IC8 I can actually change the cell entries in the IFO to even crop cells and miss bits of the movie out just like you suggested about missing the start credits out if they start later in the movie and it still works as long as you update the figures correctly

DVDShrink also sees what I want it to see but then includes the unreferenced material in the final output :(

blah blah blah, I'll just wait till I get some feedback from some of the authors 1st:)

hmmmmmmmmmm, my cropping end credits method for DVDShrink has just worked for me :D

one cropped movie with working chapters and its simple as pie so I guess now it needs beta testing by some of you guys

all you do is reauthor just the movie title with no compression cropping the end. Keep all the audio/subs and save to a working folder. Replace the new IFO's with the original IFO's and then use Ifoedit's excellent stripping feature to fix all the necessaries and also put it back into your original folder

that's it in the simplest of terms but I've missed a few finer details out so I'll be back with a guide soon

[MackemX]

looks like I've done the guide quickly but's it's because I forgot to post the last thread and left it on Preview for the last 10 minutes :p

open DVDShrink and select the files

click reauthor and select only the movie title and no compression and keep all audio/subs

clck start/end and then in the end frame section select the chapter that contains the beginning of the credits

now click the forward frame arrow to skip just 12(PAL) or 15(NTSC) frames into the credits. This will give you a 0.12 or 0.15 entry at the end of the DVD but with one chapter less

now click OK then BACKUP and save the files to another folder (another hard drive makes the process faster)

once DVDShrink is finished, move the 4 new IFO/BUPs into a safe place for now although they aren't really needed and also move the Original movie VOB's into a folder for safe keeping

copy the Original VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP & VTS_0x_0.IFO/BUP into the DVDShrink output folder to go with the new VOB's

Open Ifoedit and click VOB EXTRAS and then select the Original folder as the destintaion (which should be missing the main movie VOB's now)

Select the following

Strip Streams
Correct Vob-Unit (Navigation Pack) pointers in VOB-files
Correct original IFO files

Remove P-UOps
Remove Macrovision
Adjust Vob-Unit pointers
Adjust Audio/Subp point.

and untick the Auto-copy Menu files to destination

then click OK, CHECK ALL for audio and then OK then CHECK ALL for VOB ID's and OK and let Ifoedit do it's magic

once it's finished open up one of the IFO's in the original folder and click GET VTS and click OK as many times as necessary

that's it

p.s. disclaimer, I'm still testing but I thoughtI'd share my findings so far with you guys because you may just notice something I've missed

p.p.s it doesn't change the chapters in the VIDEO_TS.IFO :( but DVDShrink accepts the new files ready for processing and I can't see it beig a problem but saying that it takes 5 seconds to change the chapters anyway

[maa]

all you do is reauthor just the movie title with no compression cropping the end. Keep all the audio/subs and save to a working folder. Replace the new IFO's with the original IFO's and then use Ifoedit's excellent stripping feature to fix all the necessaries and also put it back into your original folder

that's it in the simplest of terms but I've missed a few finer details out so I'll be back with a guide soon

Well you do make it hard on yourself - didn't you try my Guide (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=369763#post369763) above ?

It works.....

[MackemX]

Originally posted by maa
Well you do make it hard on yourself - didn't you try my Guide (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=369763#post369763) above ?

it works..... I hadn't tried it, only in my head so I just tried it now in practice

the idea of my method was to make it easier for the people who may be scared of merging menu's and editing the commands as they suffer from Ifoeditaphobia :)

for the time it takes to copy the VOB's and the manually edit the commands I'd rather just let Ifoedit process the VOB's while copying them and updating everything in the process, keeping everything original apart from chapters 20 and 21 are missing then I can use any tool to reduce instead of being limited to DVDShrink

that's if I did use this method as Menuedit does it all in less than a minute and maintains the original structure by inserting blanks

I didn't try reducing it when cropping, which should really still work or removing audio/subs streams, which probably won't work when processing so maybe it's no good for that. If I had the time I would try, maybe later

there are a few differences between the IFO's of the merge menu's and Ifoedit copying. I haven't checked the main VIDEO_TS.IFO either as Ifoedit copying also creates a new one when it copies the files across

I don't know what effect some of the differences would have, have you any idea?

the good thing is now people have 2 options and I'm sure 2COOL will come along and probably optimize it even further :D


MAIN WINDOW - Menu audio is missing

Merge menu's

VTS overview:

Menu attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)
Audio 1: English (Dolby AC-3) 6ch 48Kbps DRC (ID: 0x80)
Audio 2: English (DTS ) 6ch 48Kbps DRC (ID: 0x89)
SubPicture 1: English (2-bit rle ) (ID: 0x20)


Using Ifoedit

VTS overview:


Menu attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (pan-scan)
Audio 1: Not Specified (Dolby AC-3) 2ch 48Kbps DRC
SubPicture 1: Not Specified (2-bit rle )

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)
Audio 1: English (Dolby AC-3) 6ch 48Kbps DRC (ID: 0x80)
Audio 2: English (DTS ) 6ch 48Kbps DRC (ID: 0x89)
SubPicture 1: English (2-bit rle ) (ID: 0x20)

-----------------------------------------


In PTT_SRPTI section this is what is at the bottom of the window
and you can see in the Ifoedit version any references to PTT_20 or
PTT21 will goto Program number 19 which is the 0.xx chapter

Merge menu's


[0000004a] PTT_16: Programm number PG 16 [0010]
[0000004c] PTT_17: Programm Chain number PGCN 1 [0001]
[0000004e] PTT_17: Programm number PG 17 [0011]
[000000 50] PTT_18: Programm Chain number PGCN 1 [0001]
[00000052] PTT_18: Programm number PG 18 [0012]
[00000054] PTT_19: Programm Chain number PGCN 1 [0001]
[00000056] PTT_19: Programm number PG 19 [0013]

Using Ifoedit


[00000048] PTT_16: Programm Chain number PGCN 1 [0001]
[000000 4a] PTT_16: Programm number PG 16 [0010]
[0000004c] PTT_17: Programm Chain number PGCN 1 [0001]
[0000004e] PTT_17: Programm number PG 17 [0011]
[00000050] PTT_18: Programm Chain number PGCN 1 [0001]
[00000052] PTT_18: Programm number PG 18 [0012]
[00000054] PTT_19: Programm Chain number PGCN 1 [0001]
[00000056] PTT_19: Programm number PG 19 [0013]
[00000058] PTT_20: Programm Chain number PGCN 1 [0001]
[0000005a] PTT_20: Programm number PG 19 [0013]
[0000005c] PTT_21: Programm Chain number PGCN 1 [0001]
[0000005e] PTT_21: Programm number PG 19 [0013]



-----------------------------------------

VTS_PGCITTI / VTS_PGC_1 , how many commands to copy?

1.Pre Command Set GPreg<0> ............
2.Pre Command If GPreg<3> == ............
3.Pre Command Set GPreg<0> ......
4.Pre Command If GPreg<3> == ............
5.Pre Command If GPreg<3> == (............
6.Pre Command Set GPreg<1> and (set-............
7.Pre Command (SetSTN) Set Audio ............
8.Pre Command Set GPreg<2............
9.Pre Command (SetSTN) Set Subpic............
10.Pre Command Set GPreg<7> mov............
11.Pre Command Set GPreg<3> mov ............
1.Post Command Set GPreg<3> mov (set-............
2.Post Command Set GPreg<1> mov SPreg<audio ............
3.Post Command Set GPreg<1> and (set-val)............
4.Post Command Set GPreg<2> mov SPreg<sub-............
5.Post Command Set GPreg<2> and (set-val)<64>............
6.Post Command (CallSS VMGM) Call VMG PGC: ............
1.Cell Command (Link subset) LinkTailPG............

-----------------------------------------

[maa]

VTS_PGCITTI / VTS_PGC_1 , how many commands to copy?

Hmmm ... Thats a big job - maybe its easier your way after all :D

[jfcarbel]

MackemX
Is the way you describe using shrink the quickest way? I thought I saw a post you made somewhere else suggesting an IFOEdit to trick IC8 not to see the credits and thus not encode them (course now I can't find it).

[MackemX]

with IC you can crop it in minutes but you may need a forgiving player so I suggest you use a DVDRW 1st

I tried a few different scenarios and as long as I did it correctly the DVD's worked just fine

it's in the twilight zone, which is the 2nd page on the forum :D

the hidden authoring settings, links to guides are in another post further down the thread

in fact just follow the Backup Guide in my link, the two guides are on the Prepare DVD page

[jfcarbel]

Aha, yes #11 on the Prepare DVD page.

Thanks..this is an awesome tip!

I am going to use this for my TV backups since I can remove the credits for each episode it will save a ton of space. Its a little different since its not the main movie, but I will try to follow your guide tonite and see how it goes. If I run into issues I will post my questions here. Doing ST:TNG episodes tonite.

[jfcarbel]

Okay I read thru your guides again and I believe I misunderstood the cropping. The one where you suggested changing the next-to-last cell is just when the credits are in its own cell and you have a blank last cell.

What I have is the last Cell of the episode PGC contains some of the episode and the credits. So I assume all I need to do is go into the VTS_PGCITI for the each episode PGC and just change the last sector of the last cell to be the frame # I see in IFOEdit window that occurs just before the credits start. I will leave the start sector untouched.

Will this automatically update the playback time (BCD)?

This is the trick to fool InstantCopy correct? Does it work with both IC7 and IC8?

[MackemX]

Originally posted by jfcarbel
What I have is the last Cell of the episode PGC contains some of the episode and the credits. So I assume all I need to do is go into the VTS_PGCITI for the each episode PGC and just change the last sector of the last cell to be the frame # I see in IFOEdit window that occurs just before the credits start. I will leave the start sector untouched.

Will this automatically update the playback time (BCD)?

This is the trick to fool InstantCopy correct? Does it work with both IC7 and IC8?
that's exactly right but I don't think it updates the playback time. you can also change the playback time but I don't know exactly how it works yet

[maa]

Yes the playback time is a difficult one...

[MackemX]

I had a program earlier today that makes it quite easy to edit them, you enter the actual time in and it changes the playback entries

I've managed to change the IFO manually to crop the end of a DVD using DVDShrink by changing a few figures, just got to proof test it 1st a few times before I blab about it :)

[jfcarbel]

Whats the program? MenuEdit?

[MackemX]

Originally posted by jfcarbel
Whats the program? MenuEdit?
VOB Snoopy, it can save all the data from an IFO into a text file and it saves the time as the time, so you can edit it if you want and you can save it back into an IFO

I replaced one cell with menuedit then compared the modified IFO to the orginal IFO to see what was what

[jfcarbel]

Okay, I ran into a road block with the episodic DVDs (Star Trek: TNG) and trying to cut the credits off. Specifically using TNG Season 1 - disc 2 NTSC R1 for this example.

First off let me explain that I am looking for the quickest way to change the end point within the last cell so that it fools IC to not transcode it. I know that there are cutting solutions, but these are time consuming and since we can fool IC why not do it this way.

Here is the problem. With most movies and some episode DVDs, the credits are in the last cell. So Mackems solution to fool IC using his method works. But with TNG the credits are actually part of some of the episode in the last cell, so we can't just drop the cell.

So I thought all I needed to do was change the Cells Last sector value to where the credits start (Mackems suggestion as well). This is where the problem lies, in that the values I see in the IFOEdit preview window in the upper left corner are very different from what we have in the last cell. I am talking right now about the first episode (i.e. PGC #1) but I assume that this would be the same with other episodes on the disc.

The first Cell of PGC_1 seems to relate correctly to the IFOEdits upper left value in preview window. For example trackbar range is 0-126845 and Cell_1 Last Sector is 126844. But the Cells after that do not correctly relate to the preview windows numbers I see. The preview window I am talking about is the one that pops up when you double click on a cell in IFOEdit.

Even more bizzare is that as I move the trackbar in the preview window the values sometimes jump to lower values and then go back up. What is this value anyways? Is this maybe an IFOEdit bug? I don't see why this number would not increase sequential as you move forward. For example the second cell shows 494979-17101 as the range in the preview window. Is there maybe another way to obtain these preview values using a different program? Could a directshow filter be effecting these values, maybe someone that has TNG 1 can compare my values with theirs.

Below is the details of what I found. Any suggestions or explanations are greatly appreciated since these TNG discs can use all the extra space you can get since the early seasons are really compressed enough already.

Looked at the last cell, Cell_13, of PGC_1 and its range in the IFOEdit preview window was 36270-54799 and the credits begin at 37862. So I would want my last sector to end at 37862 rather than 54799 so that it fools IC to ignore the credits.

However the IFOEdit values of Cell_13 (the last cell) do not coincide with the preview window values.

PGC_1:Cell_12
Entry Point Sector 1065645
Start sector 1084557
End sector 1084813

PGC_1:Cell_13
BCD 21479
Entry Point Sector 1084814
Start sector 1103200
End sector 1103342

PCG_2:Cell_1
Entry Point Sector 1103343

It does seem that the entry point of a cell is in relation to the end sector of the previous cell.

[MackemX]

I know it all but my brain ain't working :(

I worked out how to manually change the playback times along with a few more things but I shelved the dirty hacking method because I decided to concentrate on other things as it only works with IC and involved to much playing in Ifoedit

I did manage to edit the credits out of an IFO and get DVDShrink to accept it but it was just to much work so that's why I started creating a tool that reads the IFO and you can change the numbers with a friendlier interface and it changes all the relevant bits in the rest of the IFO to hide whatever you don't want. I had asked on the DVDShrink forum and also emailed DVDShrink so I could talk about the method of dirty IFO hacking but didn't chase it up as the IFO's are not 100% correct after processing unless you do a lot of Ifoediting :(. I gave up in the end as it's just not a highly wanted feature by many people and moved on to other things instead

I guess in time this will be part of the tool I'm working on now but this is for the future as splitting cells is not an important feature just yet, mayb eyou can wait ;)

I'm sure there are other ways to get the sector values so you can edit it but I cannot think of anything at the minute