MainConcept Encoder 1.4

[digitalman]

Sounds like CCE has some competition, well with the price difference, I do not think it is a competition.
http://forum.mainconcept.com/viewtopic.php?t=791

MainConcept MPEG Encoder 1.4 is available now.
http://www.mainconcept.com/mpeg_encoder.shtml

[d121]

Serial : xxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx

Edit by mod: Jeez! How stupid can one be?

[LordSirOb]

I have been using the 2-pass option with DVD2DVD-R with fantastic results. Unfortunately, it is not quite "one button," as you have to start up MCE manually and load the AVS script file. The nice part is MCE will do the pulldown for you, so there is no need to separately run pulldown.

All in all, i was impressed with my Saving Private Ryan backup compared with the original.

[hendrix]

sorry but ive used MainConcept and I can say that it's NO WAY in competition with CCE :)

but it's personal preference

"The nice part is MCE will do the pulldown for you, so there is no need to separately run pulldown"

just use BatchCCEWS - it the easy way to encode with CCE and automatically runs pulldown if needed

[d121]

JOIN THE GROUP AT YAHOO

[LordSirOb]

Originally posted by hendrix
sorry but ive used MainConcept and I can say that it's NO WAY in competition with CCE :)



What version of MCE did you use, and what settings were used? CBR or 2 Pass VBR? Progressive Frames? Interlace? NTSC Film Rates? Zig-Zag? Quantization Matrix values? The new MCE version 1.4 is very tweakable. With the right quantization matrix setup and proper advance settings - the MCE output from a 2 pass VBR is very competitive with a CCE SP 4 Pass VBR (my previous standard for DVD backups). I re-encoded LOTR-TT multiple times for side-by-side DVDR comparisons. With both encoders set at their best, most folks can't tell the difference between the two, even on HDTV.

I used (and still do) DVD2DVDR for my DVD backups, and yes, like BatchCCEWS, it will automatically run pulldown when using CCE to re-encode the NTSC Film Rate movie. Now, I just stop DVD2DVDR at the encode stage and fire up MCE 1.4 with the supplied AVS file. I already set up my optimized project settings as a profile, now all I have to do is use the Max, Ave, Min bit rate settings calculated by DVD2DVDR and hit "Convert." Although speed is not much of an issue when you run the jobs overnight, the MCE log files for LOTR-TT show that the tweaked 2 Pass VBR MCE finished in about 4 hours, and the DVD2DVDR log files show that the 4 Pass CCE SP re-encode portion of the job took just over 5 hours.

I am not trying to start a flame war here, but I thought some people would enjoy some "real" feedback on MCE 1.4 instead of the usual my-encoder-is-better-than-your-encoder feedback. I am hoping that the software developers out there start including native MCE 1.4 support. In my opinion (along with quite a few comparison testers), MCE 1.4’s quality is up there with the competition.

[ronnylov]

I did a test on encoding true interlaced VHS-C (from old camcorder)analogue huffyuv capture to DVD 8Mbit/s CBR. I used ssim in avisynth to compare the original with the encoded video. Here's my results:

Average SSIM (0-100 where 100 is equal to original)
Mainconcept 1.4: 82.81
Procoder 1.0.1.35 (with 1.5 encoding engine): 81.39
CCE 2.66.01.07: 79.06
TMPGEnc Plus 2.521.58.169: 77.57
Ligos LSX 3.5: 76.87

When I did the ssim comparison I did it on separated fields because the video was interlaced.

As you can see Mainconcept was the winner. I have not tested at lower bitrates yet but at high bitrates and interlaced video at constant bitrate I recommend Mainconcept 1.4. Watching it on TV I found Mainconcept 1.4 sharper and more detailed than Procoder.

Mainconcept 1.4 is definitely a really good mpeg2 encoder!
Try it if you don't beleive me.

[jfcarbel]

Thats a really high bitrate and most people are not going to use it since its not pratical. I am sure many like me though would be very interested in seeing more test results at say a medium bitrate like 6500 and a low rate like 4500.

Also it might be a good idea to do the comparison using VBR since VBR really shows its pluses as you lower the bitrate.

Your comparison looks like it was very detailed, really hope to hear more from you. Thanks.

[ronnylov]

Maybe I'll do more comparisons later. The ssim plugin for avisynth is available in the avisynth forum and you can use it for your own tests: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61128

I'm in a project if backing up my fathers old VHS-C camcorder tapes and I want the maximum quality available in DVD format as a safety backup of the source. That's why I am encoding it at CBR 8 Mbit/s and with uncompressed PCM audio. I'm doing the comparison to know the best method to make my backups. I can still fit one hour per DVD-R and it's not worth saving DVD-R discs when making this safety backup. I will do some tests at half D1 resolution too and compare with my original source to see what format I shuld choose. But I will still use maximum available bitrate. If the source is precious I can't see any reason to use lower bitrate than the maximum for the media I am using. Later I'll do an edited watchable version at normal bitrates but I still want my source to be backuped as untouched as possible to allow later editing and processing if needed.

Other sources like DVD movies and compression to lower bitrates in progressive format instead of interlaced may give better results with other settings or other encoder. Do some tests yourself and make your own conclusions.

Regarding Mainconcept 1.4 encoder I must say it's the most tweakable encoder I ever seen. You can change everything in the advanced settings! I guess it will take a while to find the optimal settings.

I'm not sure if I have time to do more tests in the near future. My girlfriend is expecting to give birth to our first child (her second child, my first) and it should have happened one week ago but we're still waiting... I also beleive I will have a lot of my own home videos with our child on it later. Maybe our child gets some time to transfer my videos to whatever format in the future when he/she has grown up.

EDIT: I have now tested using half D1 resolution and the ssim reported almost exactly the same value as at full D1 at 8mbit/s bitrate. I guess all details was still there at half resolution but I did not gain anything. I'll stick with using full resolution from VHS captures because the pixels are smaller and less visible at playback.

[digitalman]

I have done many comparisons of CCE to MainConcept now, and at high quality settings, MainConcept beats it hands down. Especially when using AviSynth with it. Plus it has native YV12 support, along with hyperthread support. I do not have a hyperthread processor, so I could not fully test the speed, but it sure comes close to CCE. Costs about $1700 less. But it does not seem like this program has gained a lot of interest in these forums, so maybe my opinion is off base.

[bb]

Originally posted by digitalman
But it does not seem like this program has gained a lot of interest in these forums, so maybe my opinion is off base.
CCE and TMPGEnc have been on the market for long, whereas MainConcept's encoder has joined the top league just recently with its 1.4 version (first version with two-pass encoding). It will take a while until everybody has taken notice of this new, excellent encoder.

bb

[Swan]

Is it possible to force i-frames (for use as DVD chapter points) before starting the encoding with MainConcept Encoder 1.4?

What is the current version number and build?

[LordSirOb]

Originally posted by Swan
Is it possible to force i-frames (for use as DVD chapter points) before starting the encoding with MainConcept Encoder 1.4?

Yes it is under advance settings.

Originally posted by Swan
What is the current version number and build?

1.04.00.03.

MC 1.4 is available as a watermarked demo so you can try it out. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

[smok3]

bit ot/
is that the same version as included with premiere pro?

[LordSirOb]

Originally posted by smok3
bit ot/
is that the same version as included with premiere pro?

No. It is the stand alone encoder. If you have premiere 6.5 or pro you can get the stand alone MC 1.4 encoder for a good price. Check out MC website for details.

[geoffman]

Can the Mainconcept encoder's output be set to produce interlaced or progressive output like TMPGenc can?

I have downloaded and tried out the Mainconcept offering and cannot see any option for this (or am I just plain blind)?

[ReinerSchweinlin]

From looking into the menus from Mainconcept Encoder, it looks somewhat like bbmpeg.... could it be that they continued on the development from bbmpeg oder bought it from brend?

[shoarthing]

LordSirOb - Hi - you said:

Yes it is under advance settings

- in response to the question originally posted by Swan

Is it possible to force i-frames (for use as DVD chapter points) before starting the encoding with MainConcept Encoder 1.4?

- is it possible to insert specific 'I' frames? - I can see nothing for this in advanced settings.

[ronnylov]

Originally posted by geoffman
Can the Mainconcept encoder's output be set to produce interlaced or progressive output like TMPGenc can?

I have downloaded and tried out the Mainconcept offering and cannot see any option for this (or am I just plain blind)?

Yes, you can set progressive or interlaced in the advanced settings. The help file/user's manual explains everything you need to know.

[ronnylov]

Originally posted by digitalman
I have done many comparisons of CCE to MainConcept now, and at high quality settings, MainConcept beats it hands down. Especially when using AviSynth with it. Plus it has native YV12 support, along with hyperthread support. I do not have a hyperthread processor, so I could not fully test the speed, but it sure comes close to CCE. Costs about $1700 less. But it does not seem like this program has gained a lot of interest in these forums, so maybe my opinion is off base.

I'm not sure about native YV12 support. If I open an avisynth script with YV12 output then MC1.4 close itself unless I add converttoyuy2() at the end of the script.

[Swan]

Originally posted by shoarthing
- is it possible to insert specific 'I' frames? - I can see nothing for this in advanced settings. [/B]
I cannot find any "chapter" settings, or how to force an I-frame on a specific spot in the video to be encoded either. This is a serious shortcoming for MainConcept's encoder, in my view. I use this a lot when encoding with CCE and TMPGEnc too.