DVD5 and GET_VTS_SECTORS

[leopardone]

This is a stupid question, but I didn't find anything about it with the search engine.
Why if I decrypt a dvd5 with dvddecrypter on my hd, when I open the video_ts.ifo file and press get_vts_sectors there are a lot of relinks???
Is it a "bonus feature" of ifoedit that can delete all the prohibitions of pressing some remote's buttons in some parts of the dvd or is there another reason?
Sorry for the dumb question :)

[2COOL]

Originally posted by leopardone
This is a stupid question, but I didn't find anything about it with the search engine.
Why if I decrypt a dvd5 with dvddecrypter on my hd, when I open the video_ts.ifo file and press get_vts_sectors there are a lot of relinks???
Is it a "bonus feature" of ifoedit that can delete all the prohibitions of pressing some remote's buttons in some parts of the dvd or is there another reason?
Sorry for the dumb question :)
"Correcting start sector addresses is only needed for standalone DVD-Players."

Correcting start sector addresses (Get VTS Sectors) (http://mpucoder.kewlhair.com/Derrow/calcsec.html)

For me, I always do this. After rip and before burn.

[Chowskie]

2COOL,

If u haven't noticed, there r not many new threads these few days in 'One Click Solution' or 'IFO/VOB Editors'. I am sure most of us r very busy trying to keep up and learn from all your new posts. I myself have learned many new tricks from your posts. :D And I am sure many newbies r benefited from them as well.

I hereby wanna take this opportunity to thank you very much for your contribution to the Doom9's Forum. Keep up the good work!! :)

[leopardone]

Originally posted by 2COOL
"Correcting start sector addresses is only needed for standalone DVD-Players."

Correcting start sector addresses (Get VTS Sectors) (http://mpucoder.kewlhair.com/Derrow/calcsec.html)

For me, I always do this. After rip and before burn.


mmmm... yes... I do it too :)
But the question is not if u do it or u don't ;)
The question is: WHY on a dvd5 where u DON'T do any modification?
I can understand u need the get_vts if u really manipulate the dvd structure, but if u "copy" the entire dvd5 on your hd, WHY there are so many things to be corrected?

[2COOL]

I always think it's improper authoring.

[leopardone]

no m8.
nothing done on the dvd.
ONLY dvddecrypter in "file mode" to copy the dvd on hd.
that's why I'm asking...

[2COOL]

I was thinking on the lines of when the master copy was authored. Not during or after the ripping. It's like recording a scratch on a cd. If you do a copy, you'll still hear it because the damage was done from the original. So my theory is the problem was way back during the authoring process. DVD Decrypter does not correct sectors during rip.

[leopardone]

mmm.... not sure about that, m8.
every time I rip a dvd5 on hd without doing anythin, if I click on get_vts it works...
not possible ALL the dvd5 around are "bugged"... i think..

isn't be possible that this "problem" coluld be instead a "bonus feature" of ifoedit that can delete all the prohibitions of pressing some remote's buttons in some parts of the dvd or is there another reason?

or something like that?

[leopardone]

sigh... no1 can help me?

[2COOL]

Originally posted by leopardone
every time I rip a dvd5 on hd without doing anythin, if I click on get_vts it works...What do you mean by it works? It works by you seeing sectors needing to be corrected? or it works since you didn't see a message box pop up.

Correcting sectors does not delete/edit functions of a remote button. Are you referring to that if you press your remote's audio button the audio menu does not pop up and you think correcting sectors is the cause of this?

[MackemX]

I don't like using the Get VTS unless it's absolutely necessary. I've ripped DVD's and done a tiny little mod yet clicking Get VTS makes all sorts of changes that have nothing to do with my modifications

It's even done it directly after ripping so I normally just leave them the way they are and that's what I've always done before processing with IC or whatever

in fact the DVD I've got here now, if I click Get VTS it makes modifications to the original ripped IFO's. It changes the amount of titlesets from 7 to 0 in VGMI_MAT and it also changes all 15 titles sector addresses in VMG_PTT_SRPT

I know this DVD also has 197MB of unreferenced material according to DVDShrink and I always wonder what effect doing a Get VTS has in a situation like this

the other two of the trilogy are exactly the same

:confused:

[2COOL]

@MackemX

You know me, I've done a lot of testing and also a lot of backups. Sure I do alot of extreme editing and with that I also do a lot of pressing my Get VTS Sectors button. Speaking for myself, correcting sectors have been more than a plus for me than a negative.

[MackemX]

if you say so then that's good enough for me ;)

I'm just a newbie you know :confused:

[2COOL]

MackemX,

We're all still newbies but at a higher level. We both have dived deep into big grey areas on how to fix things or better yet, finding hidden secrets/methods in our favorite programs. What we do and document to help us improve our backups with current programs, also benefits the whole community. Can you imagine if we were hardcore programmers? Man, we can do some serious damage. :p :p

[leopardone]

Originally posted by 2COOL
What do you mean by it works? It works by you seeing sectors needing to be corrected? or it works since you didn't see a message box pop up.

Correcting sectors does not delete/edit functions of a remote button. Are you referring to that if you press your remote's audio button the audio menu does not pop up and you think correcting sectors is the cause of this?

sorry for my "desperate" english. :)
I mean that if I press the button, ifoedit starts to "correct" some things, even if I didn't do anything on the dvd.


the question is between curiosity and will to learn :)

I don't understand why ifoedit wants to correct something where is already on an original dvd ;)

[2COOL]

Originally posted by leopardone
sorry for my "desperate" english. :)
I mean that if I press the button, ifoedit starts to "correct" some things, even if I didn't do anything on the dvd.


the question is between curiosity and will to learn :)

I don't understand why ifoedit wants to correct something where is already on an original dvd ;) I wish I can really dig deep into your DVDs in question and really tell you why they had the to corrected. My simple translation is this...

The VOBs' address sectors needs to be precisely referenced in it's associated IFO and in turn, the info in the IFO needs to be also precisely referenced in VIDEO_TS.IFO, which is the Video Manager (VMG). The whole DVD needs to be in check with exact references so that the structure is valid.

Now, if I was the person who did the authoring and confirmed that all references and structure is 100% working then when I have it put on DVD and then you rip the files, you also wouldn't get any sector correcting. If I didn't and then put in on a DVD, you'll be getting "sector correcting" messages from IFOedit. You see, the problem HAD to have existed before the DVD was made. The DVD you have which you say is the original is really, in fact, a copy of the master DVD back at the manufacturer plant.

[Chowskie]

leopardone,

I experienced the same thing u did. But, not all the DVDs I ripped got IFOEdit to "work". In most cases, IFOEdit only browses through all files in VIDEO_TS and found nothing to be corrected. So, I guess eventually u will find some DVD movies that will not put IFOEdit to "work" right after u ripped them to your HD.

[Ollie W. Holmes]

Originally posted by Chowskie
So, I guess eventually u will find some DVD movies that will not put IFOEdit to "work" right after u ripped them to your HD.

There are plenty of dvds where Get VTS sectors does nothing on a fresh rip. For example, those released by Image Entertainment, such as the Abbott and Costello movies. I no longer bother doing a file rip on dvd-5's, unless I need to get subtitles or fix language/subtitle descriptions (ever notice how some Russian dvds claim the language is English? Nyet!). ISO ripping is much safer.

[leopardone]

Originally posted by Chowskie
leopardone,

I experienced the same thing u did. But, not all the DVDs I ripped got IFOEdit to "work". In most cases, IFOEdit only browses through all files in VIDEO_TS and found nothing to be corrected. So, I guess eventually u will find some DVD movies that will not put IFOEdit to "work" right after u ripped them to your HD.


yes... sometimes I found a dvd that needs get_vts...
no prob :)
but the question is always the same: why? ;)

[Kedirekin]

I barely know enough even to be dangerous, but could it be that these suspect disks are authored with padding and in ripping to files the padding is discarded?

In other words, the files in a particular titleset are X bytes long (as their EOF markers indicate), but there is padding after the EOF to force the start of the next titleset to some desirable location - maybe a multiple of some magic extra-compatible offset.

The VTS Sectors on the original DVD point to the desirable locations (taking into account the padding), but ripping to files discards the padding, thereby changing the locations of the VTS sectors.

Okay, I admit this is all just supposition, but it sounds plausible doesn't it?

[echooff]

I used to get a coaster every once in a while before I started to use ifoedit. Once I started never. It was enough to make me use it every time. Btw it was 2COOL who convinced me. Hats off to him and his excellent work.

[mpucoder]

One thing that could clear this up (well, for some, for others it would be information overload) would be for IfoEdit to give a summary of the types of corrections made. IfoEdit checks many things, some of which must be a certain way (all the pointers in the ifo, for example) and others are subject to interpretation.
In particular the trick-play pointers in every NAV pack point ahead and behind by certain time increments. The value of these time increments are "nominal", and the manner in which a VOBU is chosen to represent the increment can vary from one program to another (does the time fall anywhere within the VOBU, or must it be before or on an I frame). The only two requirements are:
1) they must point to the beginning of a VOBU (ie, point to a NAV pack). Stripping streams makes adjusting this necessary.
2) they must not point to another cell (when near the end or beginning the increments beyond the cell must have their pointer set to 3f ff ff ff).

I suspect a great deal of the work being done is just to alter the trick-play pointers to conform to IfoEdit's interpretation. It might be nice to have an option for these pointers, to either fully recalculate them (the current method) or verify that the pointers conform to the two requirements above, and alter them only if in error.

[leopardone]

thx a lot everyone for trying to let me understand :)

[Kedirekin]

Saw this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=408510#post408510) in the one-click forums.

In a nutshell, it says the DVD spec requires that IFO and BUP files must be in different ECC blocks.

Could this explain why some DVD5 file rips require Get VTS sectors? Not because they're poorly authored, but because they are correctly authored.

I interpret this to mean that correctly authored DVDs have null space between their IFO and BUP files to ensure they are in separate ECC blocks, and I assume the null space is eliminated in a file rip, thereby throwing off the VTS sectors.

Or am I mistaken? Are IFO files required to be a multiple of a certain size to ensure they exactly fill one ECC block?

And of course, this raises two questions. Are our backups at risk because the IFO and BUP files are in the same ECC block? And, does an ISO rip also discard null space (assuming there is null space)?