DTS or AC3 source for standard MP2?

[tatayet]

When "Compiling" my VIDEO_TS with DVD2one, the program is asking me for the Audio track I want to select.
I have the choice between AC3 and DTS.
I know the AC3 is considered as Dolby Digital, that I know is very good (Independant 5 channels).

Is DTS as good as AC3 ?
What's the better sound quality for my Home 5.1 Cinema? AC3 or DTS ?

Thanks !

[jeremymacmull]

DTS often has if not always a much higher bit rate than AC3 and is less compressed so it is closer to the original source


hence id choose DTS always

JEREMY

[tatayet]

Thanks a lot, Jeremy !!

[Boulder]

The question's in the title..I'm not sure if I get better surround-like sound with a DTS source or AC3 one. Does anybody have a simple answer to this one?

[Fr4nz]

DTS, because it has a higher bitrate, thus a higher quality.

[bond]

afaik the dts sound is the one used in the cinemas, the ac3 is a reencode from the dts

[Fr4nz]

QUICK BUT IMPORTANT NOTE:

If you use mp2 as audio it will destroy phase information (essential for surround sound) because of the usage of intensity stereo. Solutions:

- Use a different format which doesn't destroy phase information (MP3, OGG, AAC, MPC, ecc.)

- Use bitrates > 192 for MP2 and in Stereo mode (NOT Joint Stereo!!), altough i'm not sure if it will preserve in a good way phase infos.

[Boulder]

Thanks for the answers (and thanks to the mod for moving this to the correct place;) ).

I have to use MP2 since I do XVCDs and I use dual channel to preserve the phase information. I was just curious if DTS could be decoded (with aziDTS) so that it would sound surround-like just like my ordinary AC3->dual channel MP2s do with surround2 downmix and BeSweet.

[Slogra]

Isn't Stereo better than Dual Channel? Because it allocates more bits to the most-difficult-to-encode-channel. Dual channel just gives half the bitrate to each channel.

[Fr4nz]

Yes stereo is better and IMHO safer than dual channel.

[jorel]

Originally posted by Fr4nz
Yes stereo is better and IMHO safer than dual channel.

only to clear,please answer me:

why stereo is better if dual channel have 2 individual channels?

[Sycho]

Originally posted by Fr4nz
DTS, because it has a higher bitrate, thus a higher quality.
Higher bitrate doesnot mean higher quality
for instance, if you record a song off of an AM radio station and the same song off an FM stereo radio and encode the FM one @ 128kbits/second (mp3/stereo) and the AM @ 192kbits/second (mp3/stereo) the FM will still(should) be the better quality.

often times the DTS track is taken from a different master, and the Dolby Digital is not taken from the dts track from the cinema

just so you know the DTS track in the cinema is usally different from the DTS home track, they are completly different formats

and Fr4nz, mp3 destroys phase information more than mp2

[Fr4nz]

[i]and Fr4nz, mp3 destroys phase information more than mp2 [/B]

This is TOTALLY, incredibly WRONG!

Good MP3 encoder such as LAME or Fraunhofer uses a SAFE joint stereo mode which preserve phase informations.
It's quite obvious that you'll have better surround effects if you use higher bitrates because the psychoacoustic model will throw away less bits (so quieter sounds usually inaudibile to ears will be preserved) BUT the difference between MP2 and MP3 for surround is exactly in the joint stereo mode.

For more infos watch these threads and read them carefully:


http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=12086
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=12004
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=2374&st=0&#entry22707

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28683&highlight=surround+joint+stereo

I think it's enough...anyway for more infos use the search button at the hydrogenaudio site and also here. ;)

EDIT: Check this MP3 sample, it's an AC3 track encoded in Dolby Surround with Besweet...it's a clear example on how good is MP3 for surround if a good encoder is used:

http://users.libero.it/i3ltt/Cazzate%20varie/Dolby%20Surround%20sample.mp3

Maybe if you check later you'll find an MP2 sample, so you'll can hear which are the differences.

[Slogra]

Originally posted by jorel
only to clear,please answer me:

why stereo is better if dual channel have 2 individual channels?

Well, if for example the left channel has a hard to encode part, stereo mode will give this channel more bits for this part. So when you got a 192kb mp2 it might give 128kbps to the left channel and 64kbps to the right channel for this part.
While in dual channel, each channel gets 96kbps all the time. So when it gets to the hard to encode part of the left channel it can only use 96kbps and the sound will be worse than in stereo mode.

[jorel]

:)
Slogra wrote:
"Well, if for example the left channel has a hard to encode part,
stereo mode will give this channel more bits for this part.
So when you got a 192kb mp2 it might give 128kbps to the
left channel and 64kbps to the right channel for this part."

very clear Slogra!...few words,great details!
this is the best explanation showing the differences,
i don't got this details in guides!

i will do some tests with a source with extreme stereo
one with stereo,another with dual channel
to "see" and feel the differences.

thank you!

:)

edited:
Slogra and all:
have any program to show the bitrate of each channel after encode?
or better,how can i "see" it in mp2 file when is playing tests?
thanks again.

[Fr4nz]

Maybe Encspot but i'm not sure. Anyway if you want a safe surround downmix encode in mp3.

[jorel]

Originally posted by Fr4nz
Maybe Encspot but i'm not sure. Anyway if you want a safe surround downmix encode in mp3.

thanks too Fr4nz!
:)
i want mp2 to my svcds and kvcds....
i encode the audio with fadein/out in "manual way"
using besweet(gui) or headac3he to got my job!
believe,i have tons of mp3,this thread was(is)cool for it all!

:D

[Slogra]

Originally posted by jorel
i will do some tests with a source with extreme stereo
one with stereo,another with dual channel
to "see" and feel the differences.
I never really tested it myself... So a test would be nice, I hope you can really hear the differences. Mp2's as prove would be cool.

edited:
Slogra and all:
have any program to show the bitrate of each channel after encode?
or better,how can i "see" it in mp2 file when is playing tests?
thanks again.

Not that i know, i don't think encspot goes into this :(

Btw I like your avatar :D