Anything out there to stream DVD's to a TV ?

[riekl]

Basically i'm looking for the ability to stream movies from my HD to my TV. I own (yes own) about 120 dvd's, i'm tired of changing them, and changers are cumbersome nightmares. I would rather put this data on my 500gb storage on my pc, and then poof no more discs stream from my pc to my TV. Is this doable ?

[Sastraxi]

Get the VOBs onto your disk (vStrip, DVD Decrypter, whatever), and get a TV-out card ;)

[riekl]

Ok I deserved that .. i'm looking for something a "tad" more indepth :) Basically media center software that organizes all the dvd vob's, and can be selected/played/sent to the TV. And preferably a better method of sending that video that stringing svideo cable.

[dvd_maniac]

with this program you input the movie title hit www and it will populate about a hundred fields of information about the film along with pictures. then you can play from the menu using any player you want. You have to setup each movie to a specific set of files to play but it's easy enough. As for a better conection? If you want better then s-video than you better have a DIGITAL out video card and a DIGITAL in TV. I have the ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro and it has digital out but I have a regular 36" analog tv. I'm not sure if I could connect the digital out to a HDTV but will find out on my birthday. (my wife promised me one).
But 500GB is going to get filled up quickly.
I rip the dvd and shrink it down then delete the original rip. I have over 1000 dvd movies and keep my favorites on pc, about 300 of them.

[riekl]

dvd_maniac,

Software looks good, this is progress .. still not quite where i want to be. Have you come up with anyway via IR or RF to autoselect the movies ? I.e. i have a philips pronto color that I currently have programmed to pull up dvd's in my jukebox but to be honest the jukebox sucks and I'm not going to spend $800 on a good one.

Hrm some things to think about .. maybe use my Axim via 802.11b and a custom app to select the movies .. thats a thought .. still need to find a better way to get the output from my pc the my tv tho .. TV is HDTV with DVI, but I dont think i can have a digital cable as long as I would need it :)

<edit> My "ideal" solution would be a box very similiar to a Tivo only having nothing to do with recording, something that I could have an onscreen easy to use friendly interface, pull dvd's up off the HD. Basically a HD based DVD jukebox </edit>

[Sastraxi]

If you get a Radeon 9500, 9700, or 9800 card, you can output with component video cables through a VGA -> Component adapter that can be bought seperately.

What kind of interface are you looking at for this? Mouse, keyboard, remote, or joystick based? It'd be pretty easy if you were to get an IR dongle and a universal remote, just create a program to respond to keystrokes from winLIRC.

However, if you're looking to do this from within Linux, there's already a program that can do all this and more, I think. I just can't remember its name for the life of me.

[riekl]

Hrm can you try and dig it up ? I can dedicate a pc to this so running linux isn't an issue .. i have a 9800pro card in it.

[Refthoom]

I haven't looked into it but at www.girder.nl there's some universal IR stuff but only Windows I guess.

Isn't there some way to hack a digital video recorder to do this? I mean linking that 500GB to it instead of the original internal harddisk and then play it as if you've recorded it on the machine itself? Imo it seems easier to 'stream' data than video.

Edit: Maybe you should ask SeeMoreDigital. In this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57767 he seems to have a solution for what you want. I think ;)

Edit2: Look at http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/open-dp500/ and http://www.gooddvdstuff.com/kissdvd/viewforum.php?f=2
The aim here is to use a kiss-dp500 player with modded firmware to enable streaming music/video. Haven't dug into it but maybe this is what you're looking for?

[Sastraxi]

Ahhh found it, I was thinking it was MilkTV, but it was MythTV. Go figure! :)

http://www.mythtv.org/

It's mostly for TV viewing but also has full video support, and the UI is very nice and themeable to boot.

[dvd_maniac]

I was considering hacking a tivo but went against it because my dvd collection grows quite fast. Eventually I will put all my dvd's onto hard drive. I could not possibly fit everything onto ANY ONE hard drive even now, and I wouldn't want to have a whole bunch of hacked tivo's or keep changing hard drives (kind of defeats the purpose) Also as far as cable length. I got an extension s-video made to be put into a special wall outlet and ran it through my walls, as my PC is about 18feet from TV so the wires are not dangling. I think it would be more reliable and give a better quality picture than the wireless solutions, If I am wrong in this assumtion I would like to hear some input on it...

[dvd_maniac]

From the mythtv website.

System Requirements A reasonably fast computer. I'm using an AMD Athlon XP 1800+ currently, and the high-quality (640x480) software-encoded live-tv mode takes around 50-60% cpu. Medium res (480x480), about 30%. Low quality (352x240) TV watching takes it down to 5-10% cpu. So, VCD quality "live" tv should be possible down to about a single cpu 500Mhz box. A TV card. Can't really watch TV without one, right? Pretty much anything that works with V4L should be fine. ATI All-In-Wonder cards WILL NOT work due to driver issues.
Linux. I use Debian unstable.
@riekl
I was thinking about the best way to select a movie without the whole mouse/keyboard thing and since my ATI card came with the ATI Remote it should be easy. I can either program the remote to open up Extreme movie manager and playing the movie from there is simple or I can create a menu to open up all the movies of a specific source.
Like create a menu and input all the movies starting with "A" and everytime I get a new movie just add it to the authored dvd via: MeastroDVD. Still thinking this one out. but for now I use the ATI Remote as it has a mouse built into it and open them through Extreme Movie Manager

[Sastraxi]

It's only talking about video capture, not TV-out, I believe. And you can get the FireGL drivers for ATi cards (up to the newest Radeon I believe) that support the TV-out aspect of said cards.

[dvd_maniac]

cool, i'll give it a shot then, read more of there site tonight.

[SeeMoreDigital]

riekl

I currently do exacly what you want to do right now, with an Xcard and Jove software.

I can control everything by using the Xcards remote control and the images produced on my 16:9 TV at home are stunning!

At work we now use the same set up to connect to our 42" plasms. And again the images are amazing!

[riekl]

SmD,

Your going to make me drool ! More details !!! :) Any links ?

[edit]

Ok looking at the Xcard now .. questions ..

#1) It specificaly states that menu output is only on the VGA interface, how do you sort through your dvd's with the menu ?
#2) I assume you have your PC right next to your TV for a short composite run ? Lack of DVI might hurt future content ?

[riekl]

Wow .. this is a first for me .. Where the hell can i find this Jove player. I find refrences to it everywhere in google, numerous message here, vcdhelp.com but not one single solitary link.

Google/yahoo searches for "jove" "jove player" "jove dvd" "download jove" all return no useful results .. I have never before seen software so relatively popular with no links to it anywhere ? :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by riekl
Ok looking at the Xcard now .. questions ..
#1) It specificaly states that menu output is only on the VGA interface, how do you sort through your dvd's with the menu ?
#2) I assume you have your PC right next to your TV for a short composite run ? Lack of DVI might hurt future content ?

Sorry to keep you waiting riekl. I was just finishing off an HighDef Mpeg1 encode for a client.

Anyway, in answer to your questions: -
#1: If you use Sigma's own 'player' software then yes, the menu output is only on the VGA interface. However, if you use the 'Jove Player' software, you can do everything from the TV. Even view Jpeg photo's and surf the net (but that is a bit difficult with the Xcard's remote control).

#2: My 'Media' PC is infact in another room (Study) directly behind my TV, DSS amp etc which is in the Lounge (Sitting Room/Den). The connection to the DSS amp is RGB and composite. There's an 'Scart Output' connection on the Xcard which makes connection very versatile. And since I make all my own leads, I don't suffer the usual signal drop problems!
The Xcard also has a 'Digital Video Port' onboard so it should be possible to use it to generate a DVI output. I have'nt tried this yet!

I originally had a Hollywood+ at home. But after I got an Xcard for work and saw how good it was. I went on line an bought another four of the things. Needless to say one of them has ended up at home!

However, it's the Jove Player software that brings the best out of the card. You can check it out here: -
http://www.8dim.com/JovePlayer.htm

Cheers

[riekl]

What a retard I am .. had i searched for "joveplayer" no spaces it pops right up ..

Thanks this looks like EXACTLY what I needed !

[SeeMoreDigital]

If you do decide to purchase of these cards. Don't forget to install Sigma's most upto date drivers and application software 'Release 2.0 beta'.

Also, dvd_maniac raises a good point. Ripping DVD's and saving them (for streaming) does quickly eat into your hard drive.

I use personally use DVDdecrypter for ripping and save the data file as a continuous stream with 6Ch audio (and no subs etc). I know of other people who re-compress the data file to 4.36GB ie suitable for saving on a DVD R/RW and 'then' save the stream on thier PC's - I suppose it could be quite useful knowing that all your movies will be 4.36GB or less.

Don't forget you could also experiment with creating 'high bitrate' DivX files. A 2pass VBR DivX file at around 2500-3000kbps looks great!

Cheers

[riekl]

As to the space issue the way I'm looking at it is this .. A 200 gig drive costs about $225, 4 of them in a system is 800gb and $900.

Now the "average" movie file that I have found is roughly 5gb, divide that out among 750gb avail (lets say 50gigs are used for the os/applications of course thats obscene but round numbers are nice). So thats 150 flicks store via HD. Thats a lot of movies there, at a cost of $6/flick.

Now .. it is CERTAINLy cheaper to copy the movies, and write them to dvd-r's and use a dvd jukebox. This is what i have now. But i can't STAND the delays in waiting for the jukebox to find the cd, load it, and start playing. Not to mention it has several bad habits of throwing my collection out of order by putting movies back in the wrong slots.

[dvd_maniac]

I have been working with www.kvcd.net and there KDVD templates. I find the resulting quality really great for the file size. I can fit 3-4 movies with great quality onto "ONE" dvd-r. They work with the cq matrix somehow. The only trade off is suppose to be compatibility with dvd players, but all the discs I made played on everything I tried them on. Including the PS2. I am seriously considering to convert all my dvd's. I have 4*250GB drives on a promise tx4 that I use as a media network server so I would be able to fit alot.

@seemoredigital
can this software work with the ATI card for playback purposes?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Jeez, riekl,

That's some serious GB's to play with. I would recommend you install your O/S and application at least twice (in there own partitions) - which is what I've done - just in case!

dvd_maniac
I'm glad you mentioned www.kvc.net Personally I have not tried the DVD templates, just the VCD templates (as Mpeg1 is still the defacto std for most of our customers).

As yet I have not been able to get near the image quality of the 'Red Planet' encodes that are able for download on the kvcd.net web site. I even purchased the NTSC DVD version of Red Planet so I could perform proper comparisons!

Now, I have to ask. After you've generated the necessary KDVD file. Do you bother authoring the whole lot back into a VOB container? Or do you just leave them as RAW Mpeg2 stream?

I gather that more and more DVD players can handle RAW Mpeg2 streams (as can the Xcard). So I'm just wonering if users that have such DVD players, bother with the authoring process!

I would like to discuss with you a bit more about KVCD and KDVD templates and the methods you use. Am I OK to PM you?

Oh, I almost forgot. As far as I am aware the Jove software won't work with an ATI card. But you never know what JP are upto next! They even have their own forum here: -
http://www.8dim.com/forum/

Cheers

EDIT.... STOP THE PRESSES!
dvd_maniac you might be in luck. There's a new beta version of the Jove player that is said to work with some capture & video cards!

[dvd_maniac]

I have generally only used KDVD for putting my kids movies onto dvd-r, because I am not "CHEAP" i use the regular methods for movie backups. But I am so impressed by the quality I get I am seriously considering putting all movies onto H/D with this format. I do in fact author them when putting them onto dvd-r but I think I will not be doing it when setting up for media pc. Right now I do in fact get the movie into vob content because I can then just burn them when needed. But when you can fit 3-4 movies how would you remember which movies went into which vob set?
I hope this makes sense

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yeh,

The whole KVCD and KDVD template thing is amazing. I can't understand why more people aren't talking about on the forum. I did some side by side comparisons with DivX by generating some KVCD encodes at the same file size and the KVCD looked better to me!

I currently have just 5 ripped DVD's on my PC (which are all waiting to be encoded to DivX). Like I said before, I only store them as one long continuous stream with 6Ch audio. I don't even bother with the subs or chapter info.

The thing that I don't like about KVCD is the farting around different software. Surely the key to KVCD or KDVD is generating a decent (2pass) VRB file? Maybe I'm over simplfying the process but I would have thought DVDdecrypter and then CCE (or something similar) could be used prior to running the whole thing thru TMPGEnc!

I don't know. What do you think?

[ppera2]

And what about ripping DVD to HD while watch movie? I assume that your DVD drive has enough speed to copy at least one movie during 1-2 hours...

Tipycal is that such ideas have people who even don't know what TV out on GF card is. Best quality you can get with RGB or YUV (component) TV out - some Matrox card have RGB, and some ATI component, but only NTSC ones, according to their site.

P.S. some little physical activity between two movies is very good for health and blood circulation.

[dvd_maniac]

@seemoredigital
I use a program called ACP that automates EVERYTHING. I put a dvd in the drive set a couple of settings and it rips, encodes and everything. It is SSSSSOOOOOOO easy. just go to the kvcd forum and search for acp. If you don't find it let me know. I will email it to you or you can grab it off my ftp site.

As for converting to either dvix vs. kvcd (orKDVD)? No contest, you can author the kvcd and play on standalone and IMHO the quality is better.

@ppera2
I have a pioneer A05 and it rips an 8GB movie in less than 15 minutes, and a dvd5 in under 6 minutes with the high speed rip hacked firmware.

I can put about 10 movies onto my H/D during a 2 hour movie.

[ppera2]

Originally posted by dvd_maniac

@ppera2
I have a pioneer A05 and it rips an 8GB movie in less than 15 minutes, and a dvd5 in under 6 minutes with the high speed rip hacked firmware.

I can put about 10 movies onto my H/D during a 2 hour movie.

You didn't see that I was sarcastic. I can rip in similar times, without hacked firmware. Point is that I don't see any sense of whole thing - this is not something like jukebox for SP discs (or how it was called?) for 3 minute songs.

Other thing is that if you inpatient, you will need to cut menues from DVD's - some take pretty long time.

[dvd_maniac]

maybe you shouldn't be sarcastic about things just because you don't agree with them. The main reasons I do this is because I have 4 tv's in my house (media pc is networked to these TVs) and over "1000" dvd's (and growing) and it would be hell to find a movie through 1000+ dvd cases, also the room it takes up is INCREDIBLE and they are just more likely to get damaged or lost than a hard drive is. So I put the movies we are most likely to watch more than occasionally on the media server, this is not because I am lazy, as I usually only watch movies while lifting weights or running on treadmill. I am sure that other people also have there own reasons for creating a multimedia jukebox, maybe even just to boast. My point is this "He who is without sin, cast the first stone"

[ppera2]

You may think that I'm just jealousy, and therefore is my negative attitude here.
I think that whole idea is pretty wrong. If you need more than 1 minute to find certain DVD, it is problem of bad placing. I have almost 1000 films, and can find each in seconds, it's simple placed by ABC. Not to mention much more book...

I don't think that placing on HD is more reliable than on DVD. Nowaday's drives have pretty short life of average 3 years, except SCSI, which have less capacity and bigger price.

Considering low prices of DVD drives and other hardware like network cards, I think that better solution would be to buy couple PC, 5-10 DVD drives and connect machines in fast network. So, fill drives with desired DVD's for couple days and lift that stones unembarrassed :-)
Benefits: you can play diverse movies on 4 TV. No need for huge work of transferring 1000 DVD's to harddisk cluster.
And it will cost less than 6000 GB harddisk space plus required controllers etc.
Of course, if you want to reauthor DVD's it is questonable what is better - to burn on DVD-R or store on HD. This reauthoring can be pretty good fun, so good that you can even stop watching movies and make only that. Anyway, couple next year you will not boring for sure :)

P.S. how long takes to recode on average DVD with KVCD templates? Because it works with TMPGEnc, it must be pretty slow...

[kwag]

Originally posted by ppera2
P.S. how long takes to recode on average DVD with KVCD templates? Because it works with TMPGEnc, it must be pretty slow...
About 4 to 5 hours per movie, which is really a very short time, considering the quality and shelf life you get ;)

-kwag

[dvd_maniac]

Thanx for the defense. I don't understand this guys way of thinking, but I except that this is obviously not for him. Which is fine with me. But it is nice to know that this idea of shrinking with kdvd and storing on HD. I get the size of a movie to around 1GB or a little higher and the quality is still great and the process is only around 3 hours total for me. This increases the life span of my dvd's since they are not handled as much and 1000+ dvd cases in my living room just doesn't sound appealing to me. the idea of a central pc is MUCH cheaper than buying several with MANY dvd drives. I also do not even need to buy ANY dvd drives for the pc's hooked up to the TV's. I do not think you (ppera2) are a business major, are you?
And I do not think you are jealous at all. I simply do not think that this is something that yoou are interested in doing. But do not try to make other people feel stupid, or call them lazy simply because you do not agree with their ideas.

[ppera2]

What I wrote is by simple calculation: couple thousands GB HD space costs much more than 3-4 good equipped PC. If you want to store in shrinked format, you will still need at least 1500 GB, and it's still too much. More PC has some benefits, as I said you can run couple movies simultaneously. But maybe better thing is that you can reencode on all PC's in same time, so making all that backups will take much less time (perhaps you finish until Christmas :) ).
Sorry, if my humor is strange to you, I like twisted jokes. I don't think that you are lazy, just think that you don't have enough practice with hardware, and have no picture about all costs and possibilities. Making couple thousands GB harddisk place in single PC is very expensive, and as I said hard disk is not enough reliable for long time storage. It's even possible, that it will not work under Windows, probably under Linux.
DVD drives are so cheap today, that my usual practice to play movies exclusively from hard drives has no any sense more.
Right, I don't agree with idea - but it is normal. Discussion is always good, and you have nothing to loose, just to learn and get ideas. I learn every time something when visit this forum.

About kvcd: I tried it with 704x576 and 352x576, only Mpeg1, because Mpeg2 time expired. In lower res I get about 8 MB/min, what is similar to DivX, but at higher resolution. 704x576 has aprox. twice bigger size. But there are visible errors on picture - compression artifacts at darker parts, and worst is that whole picture trills a little. It's from good DVD source. It's probably barely visible on TV, and for TV 352x576 can be satisfaying.
In any case, it can't compete with well made DivX - size iz bigger, qulity lower, and encoding speed is 3 time slower than DivX 5.05. So I can make 2 pass DivX faster than Mpeg. Mpeg2 is surely even slower...

So, it can be useful only for watching via standalone DVD player. For computer based watching, DivX is clear winner.
But I'm glad to hear about kvcd, I will make couple CD in that format. I make transfers from VHS, and for such source kvcd's quality is more than good.

[dvd_maniac]

I have tried to make some divx movies in the past and done some heavy research on it. I guess I could never quite master it. The thing I like about Kvcd is that with ACP it is totally automated. I spend no real time encoding it. As for space? I only put certain movies on HD. I would love to have them all, but I wouldn't waste time on movies I am not going to watch again for years to come. I also like the idea of Kdvd better because it is KDVD- dvd compliant and ready to burn or KVCD- vcd compliant and ready to burn. This is the deciding factor for me. Also I see little difference from the KDVD mpeg2 files I have produced from the original. And I have yet to see a divx encode that matched it bit for bit. I concede that maybe divx is better and I just have not seen the proof, but I like the conveinence of kdvd being ready to burn...
I am sorry if I got a little heated. It just seemed like you were saying I am lazy.

[dvd_maniac]

Here is the link to the program ACP
http://usuarios.lycos.es/eagson/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=5
It is buried in the forum.

[TCCK]

I went copper gigabit in a dedicated P4 server and have 2 TB on my RAID so no dics swapping for me.
ATI 9500 All-in-Wonder Pro with universal remote with USB dongle receiver.
S-video cable to TV and audio cables to surround sound theatre system.

Who needs a theatre when you have this with a 52" plasma TV. Damn I hope the reports are not true and the plasma screen does not burn out after 3-4 years. I guess I will see.

Then add 2 beautiful leather recliners and you are set!