Questions & errata in DVD backup guide

[Vertigo1]

Hi all,

Well I've just finished working through the full DIF4U/DCCE4U/ReAuthorist backup guide and I'm very impressed, good work on that one!

I do, however, have a couple of questions. I also thought I'd try to be helpful and point out a small mistake.

I've been using the main disc from the 2-disc MIB2 R2 release as a test. Loading up in DIF4U, this has 11 video title sets, and with a threshold of 200MB, it selects 1,2 & 11, leaving the remainder unchecked. I left all languages and subtitles checked.

I ran through the guide without problems, using the default settings in ReAuthorist, but I forgot to click the Auto-Size button at any point. My resulting complete disk was just over the 4700000000 byte limit, which was pretty annoying, but I'm assuming my failure to click the Auto-Size was the problem. Do I have to click this always, or only if I change things from the defaults?

I didn't get into the VOB ID decoding stuff just yet, so I assumed I didn't need to do it :rolleyes: and it seemed ok.

Once all the processing was done, I ran through Scenarist fine, and ended up with my \0\VIDEO_TS folder with all my shiny new files in. This is where I got a tad confused though.

As instructed, I copied ALL the files left by DIF4U to a new folder, then just added the VOBs from the Scenarist output folder. Now the guide actually says:

complement them with all .VOB files that Scenarist generated

I assumed that this wasn't actually correct, and I should only copy across the VOBs from the video title sets that were actually processed, i.e. 1,2 & 11 in my case, and NOT the VOBs from the unprocessed sets, as the ones Scenarist had generated were merely dummies. Assuming this is correct, you might want to modify the above sentence in the guide.

Also, the list of files immediately following the words Your directory should now contain the following: should surely contain the VIDEO_TS.VOB file from the DIF4U folder? Might also be a bit confusing to some.

I then moved onto IfoUpdate, and proceeded to process the VTS_01_0.IFO, VTS_02_0.IFO and VTS_11_0.IFO files as instructed. I noticed, however, that when I updated the VTS_01_0.IFO file, it modified ALL of the other BUP and IFO files! Each of the three IFOs gave me a warning about needing to modify other files before running, but only the first one actually seemed to do this. The guide didn't say anything about this, so I wasn't sure what else to do.

Once I'd finished, I was a tad surprised to see that the files in the VIDEO_TS folder that DIV4U had created were the ones that had been modified, whereas I expected the "new" ones created by Scenarist to be the ones changed, is this right?

I assumed that I needed to copy the modified IFO files from the DIF4U VIDEO_TS folder to my new combined folder created earlier, but the guide didn't explicitly say this, am I right? Secondly, which files should I have copied? Just the three ones I actually selected to process in IfoUpdate, or all 11 of them, as they had all been changed?

I elected to copy all 11 IFOs to the combined folder, and the DVD image appears to work ok, although I've not been through every options.

I guess I'm basically asking whether the assumptions I made are correct, and whether I should have done anything differently. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Eyes`Only]

Ok that was a really long post but i'll try to respond to the points I feel responses are needed for:

As instructed, I copied ALL the files left by DIF4U to a new folder, then just added the VOBs from the Scenarist output folder.
This isn't actually how I do it, this is how doom9 does it. I personally just move the scenarist generated .vobs (from only the VTSes that I chose to reencode) from the \0\VIDEO_TS folder into the \VIDEO_TS folder. The resulting \VIDEO_TS folder is then the complete set needed. I don't know why Doom9 chose to do it his way, as I feel it's a bit more confusing, but his way does work without a doubt.

I assumed that this wasn't actually correct, and I should only copy across the VOBs from the video title sets that were actually processed, i.e. 1,2 & 11 in my case, and NOT the VOBs from the unprocessed sets, as the ones Scenarist had generated were merely dummies. Assuming this is correct, you might want to modify the above sentence in the guide.
Correct. Doom9 may want to alter this part of the guide a bit if it is unclear.

Also, the list of files immediately following the words Your directory should now contain the following: should surely contain the VIDEO_TS.VOB file from the DIF4U folder? Might also be a bit confusing to some.
Well, the correct VIDEO_TS.VOB to use is the original one, not the Scenarist-generated one, if that's what you're asking. Using my method, that file was already in \VIDEO_TS so I don't need to do anything except make sure I do not copy the Scenarist-generated one over.

I then moved onto IfoUpdate, and proceeded to process the VTS_01_0.IFO, VTS_02_0.IFO and VTS_11_0.IFO files as instructed. I noticed, however, that when I updated the VTS_01_0.IFO file, it modified ALL of the other BUP and IFO files! Each of the three IFOs gave me a warning about needing to modify other files before running, but only the first one actually seemed to do this. The guide didn't say anything about this, so I wasn't sure what else to do.
This only happens when you set ifoupdate to correct VTS Sectors, which is something I uncheck on all ifoupdates except the last one I do. Some never check it at all and choose to use ifoedit to do this step, others check it for every ifo (resulting in what you saw, an 'altering' of all ifos after every ifoupdate).

Once I'd finished, I was a tad surprised to see that the files in the VIDEO_TS folder that DIV4U had created were the ones that had been modified, whereas I expected the "new" ones created by Scenarist to be the ones changed, is this right?
Sorry, you confused me on that sentence. Hopefully my above commentary has already cleared up this point, but if not, lets show an example structure as it should be when you have completed the file moving:

Example: VTS 01 and VTS 03 are reencoded, VTS 02 was kept original.

VIDEO_TS.BUP (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VIDEO_TS.IFO (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VIDEO_TS.VOB (FROM .\VIDEO_TS) [if it exists]
VTS_01_0.BUP (FROM .\VIDEO_TS, duplicate of VTS_01_0.BUP)
VTS_01_0.IFO (FROM .\VIDEO_TS, ifoupdated using .\0\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO)
VTS_01_0.VOB (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_01_1.VOB (FROM .\0\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_02_0.BUP (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_02_0.IFO (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_02_0.VOB (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_02_1.VOB (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_03_0.BUP (FROM .\VIDEO_TS, duplicate of VTS_03_0.BUP)
VTS_03_0.IFO (FROM .\VIDEO_TS, ifoupdated using .\0\VIDEO_TS\VTS_03_0.IFO)
VTS_03_0.VOB (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_03_1.VOB (FROM .\0\VIDEO_TS)

Hopefully that made sense.

[Vertigo1]

Originally posted by Eyes`Only Ok that was a really long post but i'll try to respond to the points I feel responses are needed for:
Many thanks, apologies for the length of the post :)
This isn't actually how I do it, this is how doom9 does it. I personally just move the scenarist generated .vobs (from only the VTSes that I chose to reencode) from the \0\VIDEO_TS folder into the \VIDEO_TS folder. The resulting \VIDEO_TS folder is then the complete set needed.
Yeah I think that makes more sense
Well, the correct VIDEO_TS.VOB to use is the original one, not the Scenarist-generated one, if that's what you're asking. Using my method, that file was already in \VIDEO_TS so I don't need to do anything except make sure I do not copy the Scenarist-generated one over.
It's fairly obvious that the one to use is the original, I was just mentioning that the list in the guide omitted the file completely from the amalgamated file list, which might cause confusion.
This only happens when you set ifoupdate to correct VTS Sectors, which is something I uncheck on all ifoupdates except the last one I do. Some never check it at all and choose to use ifoedit to do this step, others check it for every ifo (resulting in what you saw, an 'altering' of all ifos after every ifoupdate).
Ok that makes more sense, I'll just do the sector correction on the last VTS.
Sorry, you confused me on that sentence. Hopefully my above commentary has already cleared up this point, but if not, lets show an example structure as it should be when you have completed the file moving:

Example: VTS 01 and VTS 03 are reencoded, VTS 02 was kept original.

VIDEO_TS.BUP (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VIDEO_TS.IFO (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VIDEO_TS.VOB (FROM .\VIDEO_TS) [if it exists]
VTS_01_0.BUP (FROM .\VIDEO_TS, duplicate of VTS_01_0.BUP)
VTS_01_0.IFO (FROM .\VIDEO_TS, ifoupdated using .\0\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO)
VTS_01_0.VOB (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_01_1.VOB (FROM .\0\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_02_0.BUP (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_02_0.IFO (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_02_0.VOB (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_02_1.VOB (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_03_0.BUP (FROM .\VIDEO_TS, duplicate of VTS_03_0.BUP)
VTS_03_0.IFO (FROM .\VIDEO_TS, ifoupdated using .\0\VIDEO_TS\VTS_03_0.IFO)
VTS_03_0.VOB (FROM .\VIDEO_TS)
VTS_03_1.VOB (FROM .\0\VIDEO_TS)

Hopefully that made sense.
Yep that makes sense. All I wanted to confirm is that when you IfoUpdate, it actually modifies the file in "Original IFO Path", using information from the file in "Authored IFO Path".

Many thanks for the response.

[Vertigo1]

Just a small note to say I tried it all again, but this time made sure I clicked the Auto-Size button, and it still came out at 4761000000 bytes odd :(

I'll try it again but reduce the size from 4680000000. How accurate is this setting supposed to be? Is it normal for it to end up slightly over-size with some discs, like mine has?

[EonBlue]

Is it normal for it to end up slightly over-size with some discs, like mine has?

I've done quite a few backups with RA and only once have I had that 'over-size' issue. It's really not that big of a problem to solve...I just used DVDShrink to reduce the size of an extra a little bit so it'd fit. You shouldn't have this file size problem with 99% of the DVDs you backup though...but I'm no expert on DVD reauthoring so there's a chance that I'm wrong.

Also it seems as though you've gotten the post-Scenarist process straightened out but just in case you were a little confused I just thought I'd let you know what I do (not to take away from anything that Eyes`Only said as he is MUCH more knowledgeable than me):

After Scenarist creates the reauthored vobs I leave them there (I don't copy them anywhere). Then I fire up IFOUpdate and update each of the reauthored vts sets one by one. The original IFO will be the one in the VIDEO_TS folder created by DIF4U and the reauthored IFO will be correspoding vts ifo in the scenarist output folder. I leave the same options selected in IFOUpdate as shown in the Doom9 guide (autocorrect vts sectors, copy color tables from each pgc, etc). After I've finished updating each vts set, I MOVE (I don't copy because it just takes too much time and there's really not that huge of an advantage, that I can think of, for doing it) only the reauthored vobs from the scenarist output folder to the VIDEO_TS folder created by DIF4U (these should be the same vts vobs you just updated with IFOUpdate...and remember not to include any dummy vobs). If you did everything correctly then Windows will not ask you if you want to over-write a file. Anyway after you move the vobs to the VIDEO_TS folder, fire up IFOEdit. Open the VIDEO_TS.ifo in IFOEdit and hit "GET VTS SECTORS" and hit OK for every box that pops up. IFOUpdate is supposed to 'autocorrect vts sectors' for you, and most of the time it does...but every now and then it doesn't for some reason so I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS Get VTS Sectors with IFOEdit at the end. From what I've read you can't ruin your reauthored project by getting vts sectors with IFOEdit so I do it just to be safe. After that you can go ahead and create an image and test it out and then burn.

Hope my drawn-out explanation was of some help.

[Eyes`Only]

If you did everything correctly then Windows will not ask you if you want to over-write a file.

You basically restated that same thing that I do. I do LOVE this line though, when using our method rather than the one in the guide, this is a great point to make! If you get a message saying you are overwriting a file, you are doing something wrong. :)

As for the ifoedit vts sector correction-- I've seen numerous posts that ifoupdate didn't do the vts sectors correctly, however I've never had it happen to me. Whenever I get vts sectors in ifoupdate, then get vts sectors in ifoedit, ifoedit finds nothing to do, so I am assuming they do the same thing (especially since the procedure for correcting vts sectors was taken from the ifoedit website, according the author of ifoupdate). So I guess it has happened to others, but until I see it personally, I won't worry about it :) I like the feature in ifoupdate much better because i don't have to click OK for every VTS. Sometimes less verbosity is a good thing.

[EonBlue]

Sometimes less verbosity is a good thing.

Duly noted...but like I said I'm pretty much a newbie like him and if I was in his position I'd rather have someone give me a somewhat lenghty explanation that covered everything than a short one that might've left certain things out...or, judging by the length of this reply to a simple statement, I very well may just have a problem with brevity. :)

[Eyes`Only]

LOL agreed. I meant less verbosity with app feedback though. Like I like the fact that ifoupdate can now be set to do everything without asking you to click OK every step. Ifoedit makes you click OK after every VTS, which just irritates me. I think I was one of the ones that actually asked for the ability to turn off the confirmations in ifoupdate even. I'd ask for it also in ifoedit, but well... there's no support.

[Séamus]

Just wanted to add that I've had bad experiences Getting VTS Sectors with IFO Update
IfoEdit seems to update all ifos (after confirmation, I know) while IFO update does not and it seems to create some problems once in a while.
Just my experience with the two.
I stick with IFOEdit for the "Get VTS Sectors"

[D3s7]

I'd ask for it also in ifoedit, but well... there's no support.


Is it semi official that ifoedit is dead as far as development goes?

I've heard different things regarding it

[Eyes`Only]

yeah, I knew someone would post that they had probs with ifoupdate. Please everyone, don't start posting 'I had problems with ifoupdate' threads, they really do nothing for this thread. I already acknowledged the fact that ppl have had issues with it. And I have no idea where the claim that ifoupdate doesn't update all ifos comes from, as the original question of, "I then moved onto IfoUpdate, and proceeded to process the VTS_01_0.IFO, VTS_02_0.IFO and VTS_11_0.IFO files as instructed. I noticed, however, that when I updated the VTS_01_0.IFO file, it modified ALL of the other BUP and IFO files!" clearly illustrates.

As for ifoedit, ask Derrow. Err.. 321 Studios. I think you can find them coming to a courthouse near you. :sly:

[D3s7]

oooh that's right...

forgot that he was "321 studios"

heh.. well more power to him.... excellent app... couldn't live w/out it