Authoring DTS in DVDLAB?

[cinepro]

I'm making a DTS compilation in DVDLAB, with my one audio stream being DTS (I know this is against DVD spec, but I don't care).

What I do is demux to .dts and .m2v, then drag these into DVDLAB. I create different movies for each segment, make a menu, then compile.

After compiling, I use IFOEDIT and go into VTS_PGCITI, and change the audio to track "0" (meaning the first track).

When I play off the hard drive with PowerDVD, it sounds great. But my set top players won't output the DTS. Is there more that I need to do?

[maa]

I use IFOEDIT and go into VTS_PGCITI, and change the audio to track "0" How exactly have you done that?
And have you remembered to check the audio type for the Title Set on the first page of Video_ts.ifo? (Can be different to the menu)

[cinepro]

Ok, I think I have it worked out.


I changed the "Audio Stream 1 Status" to 32768 for each PGC;

Then added the POST command "(SetSTN) Set Audio Stream NR: 0" in the PGC Command Tables.


I did both at the same time, so I'm not sure which did the trick, but I now get DTS playback on my set top player for all four clips.

[jasonqhs]

Dear Cinepro,

I understand that you manage to get the DTS playback in your DVD player using only one audio stream which is against the DVD spec. Can you be more precise on how you manage to do it?

For example, I normally author with a first play followed by a menu with 4 video clips. After compilation, the quantisation always show as Dynamic Range Control. Should I change to 16 bits or? I am using DVD-LAB 1.3, Surcode DVD DTS Pro and IFOEDIT 0.95.

Can you teach me how to do your trick so that I can play them on my DVD. Previously, my DVD player can play the DTS audio but sound distorted and unnatural. Can you teach me how to set the settings in IFOEDIT so that the dts sounds will play well.

[cinepro]

I just do exactly as I posted above. I take the .m2v video, and .dts audio, and drag them into DVDLab. Then I author the DVD like normal, using the .dts track.

After compiling, I use IFOEDIT .95 and open up the VTS_01.IFO

For each PGC, I changed the two settings noted above, and save the IFO. I burn with Nero, and when I play the movies on a set top player, the DTS bitstream gets output to my external receiver.

I currently have clips from 12 different movies on the disc, so I have to change those settings in each PGC.

I had been using an older version of IFOEDIT, and it didn't work so well for some reason. After upgrading to the latest, I haven't had any problems.

Cheers.

[jasonqhs]

Thanks cinepro for your tips. I will try it and see if it works.

[maa]

Well this subject is a little confusing so lets look at the way the IFOs show the audio channels.

In the overview we see the old ID numbers that we used to use in VOBDEC, AC3DEC etc. - 0x80, 0x81, 0x82 ect.

0x80 should be used because its the first thing a player looks for.
PowerDVD 4 remains silent if this is empty, untill you change language.

Now in vts_01_0.ifo / VTS_PGCITI / VTS_PGC # we see reference to "stream numbers" counting from "0" on up.

So: 0 = 0x80, 1 = 0x81 etc.

To complicate matters a little further there is a set of "Audio Streams" thats counts from 1 on up.

So "Audio Stream 1" = 0x80 = "stream number 0" in a standard IFO

But thats not all:
"Audio Streams" have a "Value (DEC)" which can be changed.
Normally, as above "Audio Stream 1" uses "stream number 0" = 32768
but if we change the number to 33024 then:
"Audio Stream 1" uses "stream number 1" = 33024

So this can be a usefull method of manipulating the audio.
If its really compliant to the DVD Norm I do not know.

The other method is using the command table as "cinepro" mentioned above:
"(SetSTN) Set Audio Stream NR: #"

This is how the streams are changed with the audio menus - either by PGC command or by Button command.

Confusing is the fact that the COMMAND muxes up the terminology:
Set Audio Stream stream number

I'm pretty sure that the command changes the stream number ignoring the Audio Stream because it offers values from "0"

[auenf]

Originally posted by maa
0x80 should be used because its the first thing a player looks for.


0x80 means First Audio Track, AC3

for DTS you have to use a different hex code, cant remember what it is off hand tho.

Enf...

[Doom9]

DTS start at 0x88 or 0x89.. check an actual disc that contains DTS and you'll know for sure.

[cinepro]

I'm not the authority on this, but as I said, when I author in DVDLab using .dts only, I have to assign it as audio stream 0.

I tried the other x88 and x89 stream assignments when I was having trouble earlier, and it didn't work.

If you have trouble with one way, maybe try the other.

[maa]

Well, in the PAL version of The Pianist (Ger / Eng):

IFOedit shows in VTS_PGCITI / PGC_1 the DTS stream on:
Audio Stream 3 = stream number 2 = Value (Dec) 33280 = HEX 0x82
but in the Overview it says (ID: 8a) whatever that means....

Ripping this with DVD Shrink leaving out the other audio results in a VOB with audio on 82 that PDVD wont play on its own without the IFOs.
I don't know how a Set Top deals with this - probably not. So the (SetSTN) command would be a help.

[mpucoder]

I haven't been following this whole thread, but let's see if I can straighten out at least one part, the track/stream/substream numbers.
Substream numbers are used by audio other than MPEG (which is MPEG system stream 0xC0 - 0xC7). These substreams are all in private stream 1 (MPEG system stream 0xBD) along with subpictures.
The substream (and MPEG stream) numbers are a combination of the titleset audio stream number and coding type.
AC3 0x80 - 0x87
DTS 0x88 - 0x8F
LPCM 0xA0 - 0xA7
There are only 8 titleset audio stream numbers, so if the first stream is AC3, ie substream 0x80, and the second is DTS, the DTS will be substream number 0x89.

With me so far? Good. Now comes the part most people get confused on (and IfoEdit calling them the same name is no help), track number versus titleset audio stream number, or what the SetSTN command does.
The titleset audio stream numbers are determined for the entire titleset, and defined in VTSI_MAT. Since a given title need not use all the audio streams, each PGC has a map of its track numbers (PGC_AST_CTL), and what titleset audio stream number is assigned to it.
These may appear to be substream numbers due to the need to set bit 7 (of the upper byte) to indicate a valid entry, but they are not. So for the example I gave, the AC3 stream (stream 0) would have an entry of 0x8000, and the DTS stream (stream 1) would be 0x8100.
SetSTN uses track numbers, so if a title used only the DTS stream in this example, and placed it in the first entry, it would be track 0.

[maa]

Thanks mpucoder,

does that mean that "The Pianist" mentioned above is non-compliant ?

[mpucoder]

Not at all, just confusing. Another part of the confusion is 0-based vs 1-based numbering.
But in the post I think you are refering to, IfoEdit calls the tracks "audio streams", and then shows the titleset audio stream number the track maps to. In this case track 3 (1-based) uses titleset audio stream 2, which is DTS, so it uses substream 0x8A (0x88 + titleset audio stream number)

In the overview you see the titleset audio stream numbers being called "audio n" - this is 1-based (audio 1 = titleset audio stream 0). The ID given is the corresponding substream number.

[maa]

Well thanks again - I thought I was getting to the bottom of it finding Four different ways Ifoedit uses to describe its audio - but you found the missing Fith way:

"0x8A (0x88 + titleset audio stream number)"

which I don't understand because as in my post above the overview says:
"0x8A" but VTS_PGCITI / PGC_1 shows "0x82"

so 0x82 plus audio stream 3 = 0x87 and not 0x8a or is my maths wrong ?

[mpucoder]

Originally posted by maa
which I don't understand because as in my post above the overview says:
"0x8A" but VTS_PGCITI / PGC_1 shows "0x82"


That's exactly the part that most people confuse.
0x8A is the substream number within private stream 1 that the third audio stream in a titleset is assigned if it is DTS. DTS substream numbers begin with 0x88, add to that the zero-based titleset audio stream number (since the first is 0, the third is 2, 0x88 + 2 = 0x8A)

The PGC does not talk about substream numbers, but titleset audio stream numbers. These entries are 0x80 plus the zero-based titleset audio stream number.

In other words, in the PGC you should only see values from 0x80 to 0x87 or zero. The coding type of the audio is not encoded into the value in this table.
In the overview you will see the actual substream numbers which are a combination of titleset audio stream number and encoding type.

[maa]

Thanks I'm gradually getting there.

Two unrelated questions:
Do you have a comment on the audio confusion I posted in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58921#post357862)

How can I get my codec installer from this Thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59243) loaded on to doom9.org server for all to find and use ?

thanks

maa

[mpucoder]

This page (http://www.doom9.org/contact_info.htm) describes how to submit a program.
I'll answer the audio question in the thread.

[mpucoder]

Just made a correction to my earlier post, it had the wrong system stream numbers for MPEG audio. It had said 0x80 to 0x87, when it really is 0xc0 to 0xc7 (for DVD, MPEG itself can use 0xc0 to 0xdf).