Odd stuttering problem with DVD-Lab

[Swan]

I'm having a really odd problem with DVD-Lab. I'd just like to hear if anyone else has encountered something like it and found any solution to it?

The problem is that the audio goes mute on my final DVD and the picture freezes. It's not much, it's just for a fraction of second on a few occasions in the final DVD when played on my standalones. I have used different players and various brands of DVDs to eliminate them as the source.

I have tried the following in DVD-lab, and all DVDs created from the examples below have had the "stutter":
1. Video (encoded with CCE) and Mpeg Layer II audio (encoded with Beesweet).
2. Video (encoded with CCE) and AC3 audio (encoded with Vegas).
3. Video (encoded with TMPGenc) and audio (both Mpeg Layer II and Ac3, encoded as above).

If I take the *exact same video and Mp2 audio* and multiplex them using TMPGEnc, then feed it into Ulead DVD Moviefactory and let it output the vobs and ifos, the DVD plays 100% fine. So the problem is related to DVD-Lab somehow.

The raw material is stuff I captured myself via DVB-S, encoded to Mpeg-2 from DV avi (tested both CCE and TMPGEnc), and the audio was encoded to AC3 using Vegas 4 and Mp2 with Beesweet (Toolame).

/Swan

[Swan]

Sounds like I'm not the only one with this problem:
http://www.mmbforums.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=487

[cinepro]

I have a problem with my DVDLab DVD's stuttering (or pausing for a fraction of a second) after edits in the video. It doesn't happen all the time, but it is definitely DVDLab doing it.

I'm trying to figure out what I've done differently for the videos that play fine.

[al1959]

hi swan
just wondering if you can help me again, you may remember the help you gave me about 9 months ago creating svcd`s. well i`m now trying to make dvd`s using ulead videostudio 6.

i can see you have problems of your own and will understand if you do not have the time.

thanks

al

[maa]

If you don't mind a bit of Ifoediting you can bypass all the problems that DVD Lab is having right now by making your film into a basic title set with the autoring function in Ifoedit. Then replace VTS_01_1.vob that DVD Lab made.
My two guides will help you do this:
For a single film - A Simple Menue - easy! (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56225)

For multiple VTS with more audio tracks and subtitles than DVD Lab can create on its own - Making a multiple VTS with Ifoedit for a Menu produced with DVD Lab (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58791)

[cinepro]

Thanks maa. I've already printed out your guide and am working on it. You were truly generous to write it out.

[maa]

I do hope its do-able, let me know in the corresponding thread if you get it working or need any help.

[Swan]

maa, are you saying the audio stuttering problem with DVD-Lab-authoured DVDs is caused by a problem in the VTS_01_1.vob it creates?

[maa]

Not exactly - I'm saying that the VOBs output by DVDShrink or MyDVD or Ifoedit don't have this problem, so its similar :)

There are two main reasons why DVD Lab makes wrong VOBs:

1. It allows you to put Video and audio of different sources in each "movie". This doesn't work as advertized because all this material ends up in one VOB set and THAT only can have one IFO with one description of the audio and video material.

The only way to use the program successfully until it becomes multiple VTS is to make sure all "movies" have identical audio and video encoding !

2. Same as point (1) except now its the menus. Each must have identical video and audio content. This is not made clear in the help or advertized as a limitation. There is also no real way around this so its just knowing what you can and can't add that leads to success.

The muxing engine may or may not be up to scratch and I know Oscar is working on it.

The forums are full of this - especially DVD Labs own forum.
I've made this perfectly clear over there in several threads but no reply from the author to date.

My guide may take some time to do the first time but the possibilities are endless and give you the real power of the DVD Specs!

[Kika]

Did you try the actual Version (1.3 Beta 1)?
With this Version, i don't have this Problem anymore. But i must use the slower Multiplex-Option.

[Swan]

@maaThe only way to use the program successfully until it becomes multiple VTS is to make sure all "movies" have identical audio and video encoding !
The video files I had the problem with had the same audio encoding (Mp2, 224 kbps), both videos were VBR-encoded with the same max bitrate setting (8000 kbps). The average bitrate differed, however. Was this enough to cause the audio and video stutter?
Would it have worked if both videos were CBR (same bitrate on audio and video)?
Would it work if both videos were VBR with the same average bitrate?

Looking at DVD-Lab's forums, the suggestion there seems to be to change the GOP sequence, using only one B-frame in a GOP instead of two (which I don't want to do).

My guide may take some time to do the first time but the possibilities are endless and give you the real power of the DVD Specs!
I'm new to DVD-authoring, but would like to give it a try.
But I don't have My DVD, only DVDIt.

@Kika
No, I used version 1.15, 1.3 beta was not out when I wrote this post. I'll download the beta, but still, I'm curious as to why the stuttering happened. The quest for a good DVD-authoring software goes on..

[maa]

The point is if you use the same material and "author" with IFOEDIT (I know it gives you no menus) and you get perfectly good VOBs then there is nothing wrong with your material. If its going to be two films, author twice with Ifoedit to seperate directories and then follow my guide.

@Swan - you've got the wrong guide - its here:
Making a multiple VTS with Ifoedit for a Menu produced with DVD Lab (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58791)

[Swan]

I downloaded the latest DVD-Lab and have authored two DVDs with it. I haven't heard or seen the stutter (dropouts). Thanks, Kika. Do you use the "Flexible, any source" or "Fast, DVD compliant source" alternative under "multiplexing engine"?

Maa, I am concerned about what you're saying about DVD-lab not creating compliant DVDs. I am a total rookie at DVD authoring and the types of DVDs I have done are simple: just one or two mpegs, a simple menu with a thumbnail from each movie and a "play all" text button.
It's the simple menu in the quckstart from the help file that comes with DVD-Lab. My videos usually have VBR at various average bitrates and the audio compression I use is either AC3 or more commonly MP2.

Can you, in a simple way explain what it is that DVD-Lab does wrong?
You previosly wrote "It allows you to put Video and audio of different sources in each "movie".
How can I tell if it's still doing that?
If the problem is that for a DVD with a structure like mine (two mpeg's), DVD-LAb only creates a vts_01_0.ifo and not a vts_01_0.ifo and vts_02_0.ifo, then it is still doing it.

To begin to understand what you are saying, I have and will continue to read Doom9's article at
http://www.doom9.org/dvd-structure.htm

[maa]

DVDlab doesn't warn you if you mix source material in one VOB. It then tries to mux it together. A lot of experienced users know all this and make perfect DVDs. Others fill the forums with "stuttering video" and "audio not working" probelms because the source material IS different. If you are starting from scratch using NLE with home grown video, chances are that all the material is the same so there is no problem.

[Kika]

Do you use the "Flexible, any source" or "Fast, DVD compliant source" alternative under "multiplexing engine"?

I always use "Flexible, any source" now.

[Swan]

Thanks to both of you.

Maa, what are the things to avoid?
Having different audio formats, say ac3 on one video and Mp2 on another, yes, I understand that is a bad idea now.
Different average bitrate on audio and video, is that a no-no too?

And could you advice on what DVD authoring software the "experienced users" are using? What authoring software creates DVD's "the proper way"?

[Kika]

@Swan

In DVDLab, you can Mix Videos with different bitrates, also with CBR and VBR - no problem so far. But all Video-Streams must have the same Resolution.
The second Problem is the Audio-Part. All Audio-Streams has to have EXACTLY the same parameters.

Other Authoring-Programms... In SpruceUp or Maestro you can put Videos with different Resolutions and Audio-Streams onto one DVD. For every Clip the Authoring Program has to create an extra Titleset.
DVDLab only produces one Titleset, that's why you can't mix Videos with different Resolutions/Audio-Streams.

BTW: The Video-Resolutions aren't that critical. Most DVD-Players will play such Streams (mixed up ones).

[Swan]

Kika, thanks a billion for this interesting information!
I have tested SpruceUp, but gave it up because it took what seemed like forever to import a video. Is that normal?

Are there any guides to Maestro you know of that are good?
For creating the simple type of DVD I mentioned before?
I understand Maestro cannot create menus, like DVD-lab.
But I am not afraid of Photoshop. :)

The Maestro guide on Doom9 looks to me to be primarily intended for re-authoring a DVD.
I am not afraid to learn something new, but sometimes we all need a little push in the right direction.;)

I can also say that Ulead DVD Workshop 1.3 does not create several titlesets either.
This must be a huge problem, I bet the other Ulead DVD authoring software titles doesn't either. :scared:

[Kika]

I have tested SpruceUp, but gave it up because it took what seemed like forever to import a video. Is that normal?

Yes, if you are using System-Streams (multiplexed Streams) for import. If you are using elementary Streams, it's fast like hell and setting Chapter Points and other things is much faster and easier.

Are there any guides to Maestro you know of that are good?

I must pass. I only use DVDLab, SpruceUp, IFOEdit and TMPGEnc DVD Author.

DVDLab, if i want nice Menus.
DVD Author, if i want my DVD without complex Menus.
SpruceUp, if i want to mix different Videos onto a Disc.
(SpruceUp is the only Program of them i use which is able to do this mixed Video-Stuff)
IFOEdit, if i don't want a Menu or if i want SubTitles.

[maa]

Oscar stated today that Multiple VTS is on his to do list (in the thread annoucing 1.3beta 2 ) and he agrees that it would stop a lot of the problems involved with the single VTS output we have now.
Horray!
The latest Beta offers moving menu buttons and backgrounds too!

[Kika]

@maa
I'm glad to hear that. :)
That's a real good message.

[Swan]

Hooray!!
And again, thanks both of you.
I learned a great deal from you.;)

[Swan]

Am I wrong in thinking the latest TMPGEnc DVD Author creates multi VTS DVDs? I just tested version 1.5.13.44. When adding two tracks to a project, then outputting the DVD structure to a folder on the HD, I got a VTS_01_0.IFO and a VTS_02_0.IFO.