New info on "self destruct" DVDs

[Xayd]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/21/technology/21FLEX.html?8hpib

You need a New York Times account to view the above, but here are the juicy statements...

- DVD is unusable in about 48 hours

- Will retail for $5 to $7

- To preserve the rental market, the titles will not be available until 6 weeks after the regular DVD release

- Will not include any usual DVD extras like deleted scenes

Even Michael Eisner in the article is hinting that he thinks these will be a gigantic failure, and his company (Disney) were the ones that have pushed the idea forward. Maybe it's the idea of some VP that he doesn't like who he's getting hung out to dry or something, hehe.

[mpucoder]

From the very start this idea sounded goofy, what kind of Mickey Mouse company would invent such a thing.
Seriously, what an environmental disaster, while the data disappears, the plastic lives on in land fills forever.

[ammer]

that is an environmental pollution. down with the factories. disposable dvds bad!!! nay

[Doobie]

As the DVD has to be protected from the environment until use, there's no reason not to make the whole DVD out of highly biodegradable materials.

[killingspree]

Originally posted by Doobie
As the DVD has to be protected from the environment until use, there's no reason not to make the whole DVD out of highly biodegradable materials.
and you really think they'll do that? i highly doubt this will be possible at the same cost of a 'normal slef-destructible' disk and i don't think the studios will want to sacrifice a single sent of their revenues unless they're forced to :mad:

steVe

[Selur]

He,he I'd like a DVD that can be eaten once it's not playable,...
*gig* wouldn't it be cool to eat your DVD once you got it from your pizza service and watched it,... *gig*

[neo_sapien]

They'll have to figure out a way to write data onto donuts and pizza bagels first, and in that case, your new dual-format 50x donut/pizza bagel-ROM drive might get a little dirty, what with all those crumbs, pizza sauce and melted cheese fragments.

Better than eating glass or plastic or whatever it is that DVDs are made out of currently though.

[Xayd]

Originally posted by Doobie
As the DVD has to be protected from the environment until use, there's no reason not to make the whole DVD out of highly biodegradable materials.

I dunno if such a material exists like that, that is at the same time durable enough.

You ever seen what happens when a CD gets a small crack and a drive spins it up past the ~48x to ~50x speed mark?

BLAMMO! It literally shatters and can send shards throughout the drive (and whatever room you're sitting in ;)).

Anything Biodegradable I would think has to be sensitive to heat, and the heat of a drive therefore could cause it to lose structural integrity. Any engineering people around?

[wmansir]

This scheme has failure written all over it. I'm tired so my thoughts are kind of scattered, so please forgive me.

Let's see, for 50-100% more money I get a DVD with less features, I get it for half the time (all local rental places here are 5-day), I can't get the latest titles and as an added bonus I'm being environmentally unfriendly. And for all that the only benefit is I don't have to return the movie. Wow, that's quite a deal.

The laughable part of the article is the study saying that the gas saved by not returning the disc is the equivalent to 8-20 times the disc waste itself. Maybe if you rent your DVDs one at a time, from a shop in the next town over, drive a big SUV, and never have to go near the store on other business anyway. And I wonder who paid for that study.

I wonder if these discs have reduced content because they are only single layer and therefore tight on space? If so that would make them a pretty attractive target for DVD-R copying. I've also been wondering for a while if/when studios will make two versions of a DVD, one full featured for retail sale, and one bare-bones edition for rental. I'm not sure about the legalities of movie rentals, but I wonder if the studios could prohibit the rental of the 'retail' versions if they were to adopt such a scheme. Something tells me if they could do that, they would have already done this scheme.

And finally, I wonder if any netflix-like service could incorporate these disposable DVDs. It would save on return postage so if manufacturing costs were extremely low (and/or the postal rates keep climbing) it could be cost effective. Of course it would mess up the all-you-can-rent plans, since they are restricted by the customer returns. It could also be used for international rentals, since it would reduce the complexity and expense of two way shipping. Perhaps the international market is also why they are delaying titles six weeks.

Actually, now that I think about it they probably don't want to "protect the existing rental market" at all. Since they get a bigger cut of the revenue from these disposables anyway, why would they? They are probably just spinning these shortcomings (six week delay, less content) by saying that as an attempt to protect their relationship with the video chains.

[markrb]

Most digital cable systems in the US either have or have plans for video on demand, which in many ways is superior to this scheme.

My friend has it and for $3.99 he can watch a movie at any time and as many times as he wants during a 24 hour period. He can pause, rewind, fast forward etc... just like it's a VCR and there is no tape to return and no disc to pollute.

Mark

[DevilsChild]

Will these DVD's have CSS encryption, or will they use a more sophisticated encryption scheme (like the old DIVX discs)?

[dani82]

here's a thought, what if the dvd was defective? is there anyway you could prove it after the 48 hour mark (keep in mind you were to busy to return it any sooner)

for the price of a self-destructing dvd, i could rent 2-3 vhs longer than 48 hours.

[ammer]

if you shipped it internationally, it would "self-destruct" or "biodegrade" before it got there.

[wmansir]

They have to use regular CSS to be compatible with everyone's DVD players. The story linked above says something like "just like every DVD they will be encrypted to protect against copying..." which basiclly means CSS.

I was also thinking about the rental period and it's not entirely fair to compare their cost/day to a traditional DVD rental because the clock doesn't start until you open the DVD and put it in the player.

If these were very cheap (less than $4) I could see them being placed in the checkout isle at the supermarket and being an impulse item, but the price is too high at this point. Also, they had better be VERY clearly labeled, because you know some people are going to think they are buying the actual DVD and then try to return it when it stops working.

[Mole]

@ammer

No it won't. It'll only start to degrade once it has been out of it's package.

[ammer]

mole, well due to its limited lifespan, MTBF(mean time between failure), heat conditions and other physical factors, by the time it ships and arrives at the door of the buyer and is opened by the person, it would just fizzle away. i would not know what to do then. but then again if preservatives were added, that would make a whole lot of difference. see milk, has an expirational date of say 30 days or even less after you purchase it from the local grocers. see, although you might keep it in the refrigerator during the mean time, when that date comes around, that milk is no longer best to be used then. and if you keep it longer it'll probably go sour or curdle and get chunky you see. so with this dvds limited 48 hrs lifetime expectancy, it'll inevitably fizzle even before the product is properly viewed by the consumer. do you get the gist of 48 hrs prior to "self-destruction"?

[ultimatebilly]

Maybe it would be possible to preserve the DVD with, for example, a spray that isn't permeable for air? That would be funny, don't you think? All DVD's for only 7$...
But if they are DVD-5s anyway, why bother? I think thats another reason why this whole bullshit won't be successful, because the quality for most movies will be too bad (at least if DVDs are compressed as inefficiently as most are today - the studios should hire some of the DVD-copy-pros from here ;) )...

[Mole]

It starts self destruct when it comes in contact with air. I belive it's inside a vacum package, so as long as it's not opened, it won't degrade. You can keep it for years as long as it's unopened.

Do you think they'll have to rush out the product from the factory to the consumer or something? It can stay maybe weeks or months in warehouse reaching retail stores.

Use some logic man.

[dwflo]

Self destructing DVDs, heh? Sounds like environmentaly friendly toilet paper. Every time you use it, your fingures go through it!:p
Sounds like self destructing Hollywood, as if that hasn't already started.(Former MP&TV employee, here folks!)

[sysKin]

Anyone knows where I can buy some hellium? Or argon? And a small convinient box which I could fill with this gas and some DVDs?:rolleyes:

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Regards,
Radek

[r6d2]

Originally posted by sysKin
Anyone knows where I can buy some hellium? Or argon? And a small convinient box which I could fill with this gas and some DVDs?:rolleyes:

Actually, it would have to be quite a big box, to hold your player, your whole DVD library, and with some arm shaped sleeves to operate from outside :)

[wmansir]

Originally posted by r6d2
Actually, it would have to be quite a big box, to hold your player, your whole DVD library, and with some arm shaped sleeves to operate from outside :)

It's funny, in my last post I wrote about that exact setup, but deleted it before posting. You would also need some way to introduce new DVD's without contaminating the box with air, and probably a heat dissipation system for the player since there would be no ventilation, maybe just simple heatpipes from the DVD player leading to an external heatsink.

Do they make DVD players that are like those 200+ disc CD players? That would save a lot of work with the gloves. :)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by wmansir
Do they make DVD players that are like those 200+ disc CD players? That would save a lot of work with the gloves. :)
Actually, if you want to go for the real thing, the box should also be able to contain your PC for the encodes (I bet you'd still encode "just in case"), a TV and home theater systems, a frigobar, and a comfortable coach.

At the end, you'd need a life support system to be in there :)

[mpucoder]

If I ever bought one of these things - and that would only be after every Movie Gallery, Blockbuster, Best Buy, Circuit City, and Media Play went out of business - the first thing I'd do is rip it to HD.

[sysKin]

Originally posted by r6d2
Actually, it would have to be quite a big box, to hold your player, your whole DVD library, and with some arm shaped sleeves to operate from outside :) I rather thought about watching it, putting it into the box, then watching it again after a week or two, then maybe again. It should stay alive that long if only kept in a noble gas most of the time.

BTW I also wonder if putting it into a fridge would slow down the process ;) :D lol

Radek

[killingspree]

Originally posted by sysKin

BTW I also wonder if putting it into a fridge would slow down the process ;) :D lol


:D the thought of a fridge full of DVDs is truly amusing :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Does anybody know for sure that these DVD's degrade in air.

I would have thought it would have been much easier to manufacture disc's that degrade in direct relation to the amount of laser light they are exposed to!

Just a thought.... and I don't want to give anybody any ideas!

[r6d2]

Originally posted by killingspree
:D the thought of a fridge full of DVDs is truly amusing :)
Yeah, to me too. On the other side, it would be the perfect excuse for my give to buy a safe box for her magazines. :D

[dwflo]

Don't think the fridge idea is very good. Where will you keep the Beer?

Making them like TP would be more efficient. After you watch it and you don't like the movie, you can wipe your ass with it and flush. Or you can use it to blow your nose!:D

[mpucoder]

Originally posted by dwflo
Or you can use it to blow your nose!:D Just NOT both, in either order.
The problem is, just like that environmentally friendly TP, your finger would go thru the hole.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by dwflo
[B]Don't think the fridge idea is very good. Where will you keep the Beer?
I still prefer the fridge. I'd be forced to drink the beers faster and besides, I'd rather flush the beer subproducts anyway :)

BTW, I've heard that about 30% of rental business revenues come from late fees. I guess this disposable format won't make it into the market because of that.

[Sirber]

Anyway, in 48h, you have enough time to "backup" it :D. On my old 4X I can have it secured in 20 minutes...

[dwflo]

What scares me about this whole idea, is the efforts the Studios are attempting to curtail piracy. It could lead to even more drastic measures.
Take a look at the "Napsters", how they are going after anyone who downloads music, with fines being levied into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
What I expect to see next is a copy flag that is triggered, when a rental DVD is ripped. By scanning the disk, when it is returned, they would be able to tell if it had been copied. Then, they just notify the "Copy Squad" and have the subject arrested. The flag would be reset before it was rented again, so they could nab the next renter. Then they will go after those "Ripping Software" authors and have them arrested, i.e DVDShrink, DVD Decrypter, etc.
Think I'm crazy? Could be!!! :rolleyes:

dwflo

[ammer]

By scanning the disk, when it is returned, they would be able to tell if it had been copied. Then, they just notify the "Copy Squad" and have the subject arrested. The flag would be reset before it was rented again, so they could nab the next renter.

sounds like rw technology to me. maybe the video could be embedded in software which needs a one time access code written using rw technology to render the disc usable. perhaps partial rw sections technology.

I would have thought it would have been much easier to manufacture disc's that degrade in direct relation to the amount of laser light they are exposed to!

nice, it fizzles away in the drive. i'd be unsettled if smoke were to seep out of the drive too.

BTW I also wonder if putting it into a fridge would slow down the process

i could use those discs to cool the system and drive down. what a versatile disc.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by dwflo
Take a look at the "Napsters", how they are going after anyone who downloads music, with fines being levied into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

They are not after people downloading music. They are after people using what they have not paid for, in other words, stealing. I bet that if you were an author who lives on your production, you would call 911 when a burglar enters your house and rips you off in the middle of the night. Well, that's the same thing happening here.

What I expect to see next is a copy flag that is triggered, when a rental DVD is ripped. By scanning the disk, when it is returned, they would be able to tell if it had been copied.

Ripping a disk is no different to watching it, except perhaps speed. They wouldn't be able to tell what you did reading that flag.

Furthermore, there is no way they can make DVD player write anything on a DVD which, additionally, is read-only technology.

Think I'm crazy? Could be!!!

If that was possible, they'd have done it already. I'm sure they thought of it.