Gordian 0.27 had a better Image quality for sure !!! WHY ?????

[dihelson]

Hello, Friends,

I can't explain how in the world a thing that presumably would become better with time becomes worst. So is my impression of GordianKnot image quality on version 0.28 and above.
Please, Understand: The software is NICE!. It improved a lot in functionality, automation, support for XVID, etc, but lost in Quality of image, why ??
I think the problem was when the developers changed the AVIsynth.
Although people often say that with the new AVISynth the colors have not to be "translated" , well, my eye perceives LOTS of details missing on so much FOG...
Definetelly, when we see the preview image on Gknot 0.27 it is better than image seen on the new 0.28.

The image on 0.28 seems to have such a FOG around it, which 0.27 hadn't.
Well, I installed the two versions and the difference is very visible.
I made extensive tests with it, and even now, many months after made the change for 0.28, my films made on 0.27 have a nice bright, such a more close to DVD quality, and deeper details.

I want to know just one thing form you, Fellows:
How can I use the funcionality of 0.28 on Xvid, automated things, using the software pack of 0.27 ?
In what extent?
Is it possible to use AVISynth and VirtualDub of 0.27 in 0.28 for XVID ??
0.27 is good, but I hate having to save in preview, then make the 2 passes in VirtualDub 1.4.13, then calculate the audio...
It's almost like making everything on VirtualDub...

It would be nice if I could use 0.28 with AVIsynth original and VirtualDub 1.4.13 without problems.

How ?? is there a chance?

Thanks in advance.

[bond]

first of all:
the encoding is done by the codec (and the settings used in the codec of course) additionally you can influence the output image with avisynth filters too (if you use them)

gordian knot is "just" a graphical user interface, which makes encoding (with the codec) much easier but doesnt influence the output quality itself

Originally posted by dihelson
I think the problem was when the developers changed the AVIsynth.
Although people often say that with the new AVISynth the colors have not to be "translated" , well, my eye perceives LOTS of details missing on so much FOG...avisynth itself doesnt influence the quality too, the filters used IN avisynth can do that...

Definetelly, when we see the preview image on Gknot 0.27 it is better than image seen on the new 0.28the preview window doesnt show the compressed video (you will get as output), it just shows the plain dvd source


i think you used xvid for your encodes with gknot 0.28?

so plz do the following:
open gknot 0.28 -> options -> xvid default codec settings -> first pass -> and tell us what settings are used in there

[dihelson]

Originally posted by bond
first of all:
the encoding is done by the codec (and the settings used in the codec of course) additionally you can influence the output image with avisynth filters too (if you use them)

gordian knot is "just" a graphical user interface, which makes

Hello, Mr. Bond,
Thanks for answering me.
I know that Gknot is just a graphical interface,
I love it! It's a fantastic suite, the best thing was invented to solve all our problems with DVD->XVID (or DIVX). I don't question this, I love GordianKnot...
but depending on the "software" it uses, the version of external softwares, like AVIsynth and others, may produce different results, don't you agree, so, why they changed AVIsynth from GK 0.27 to 0.28 version ?

So, how can you explain that in the preview of 0.27 version the image is better than the preview of 0.28 ?? 0.27 version has kind of bright and contrast which in 0.28 has kind of FOG around the image, and this "fog" persists after the filme is made. (It's very subtle, but it is there)... I can't explain why this happens.

I wouldn't like to discuss this too much, I made 1 entire month of tests using both 0.27 and 0.28, and I made up my mind. Dozens of testes with the same codec parameters.
I prefer the old Avisynth.
I only want to know how can I use the AVISYNTH version used in GK 0.27 in version 0.28.
Please, tell me: If I copy only the new 0.28 GordianKnot .EXE to the old 0.27 directory will work ? I mean: I would have the automated tasks of 0.28 using the 0.27 suite softwares ? Will it work ?
or I would have problems with Avisynth and virtualDubMod ? (If I'm not wrong I made this combination and VirtualDubMod didn't opened the saved avisynth script...

When I made my tests, I used the SAME codec parameters, by the way, I use XVID.
Just for curiosity the codec parameters used was:

(for 2 CDs) :
===================================================
First and second INT pass:
6-Ultra High
MPEG quant (on both passes)
Xvid
VHQ 1
300
1
Use chroma Motion
Quarterpel
2
150
100
0
DX-50 Bvop compatible

Quantization: 2,4,2,12 (or default)
Don't use ALT curve.
Debug: Chroma Optimization ON
(frame drop ratio ZERO)

==========================================

Regards,
Dihelson Mendonca

[chemmajik]

Also from one build to another a simple setting or virtual dub setting save config file could have accidentally been changed. One could be to reduce size the other to speed up conversions, its really not hard to do. where talking micron...

[dihelson]

Originally posted by chemmajik
Also from one build to another a simple setting or virtual dub setting save config file could have accidentally been changed. One could be to reduce size the other to speed up conversions, its really not hard to do. where talking micron...

Forgive me, if my posts may seem crazyness :) but not!
I re-installed now version 0.27 just to verify.
After many months using 0.28, it's different...
See, I just finished my 150 movies converted to XVID using GordianKnot...
(Yeah, I'm crazy! :) )

Well, the point now, I'm trying to run the two versions on the same machine at the same time, without interference, but it's difficult, since when I change one parameter in one of them, it mess around the other, so, I'm still trying this, any hints are welcomed.
I got using Avisynth from 0.27 on 0.28, not marking that option:
"Use Alternative Mpeg2Dec.dll in script"
I wanted a more radical change, trying to use VirtualDub 1.4.13 (not the MOD version, but GK 0.28 refused to work on VD original, any help ?)


Regards,
Dihelson

[dihelson]

Originally posted by chemmajik
Also from one build to another a simple setting or virtual dub setting save config file could have accidentally been changed. One could be to reduce size the other to speed up conversions, its really not hard to do. where talking micron...

I Agree with you,
The crispness X the foggyness
(it's like 0.27 version could add a little bit of "Sharpen" to the image.)

Regards,
Dihelson

[bond]

once again

1) it seems that you are the only one who experience this (sorry to say that but...)

2) avisynth itself doesnt influences the output picture!!!
no, no, no, never ;)
in fact in old avisynth there are color conversions, which reduced quality a little bit, which isnt the case in avisynth 2.5.x anymore

3) virtualdub or virtualdubmod itself (no matter which version) doesnt influences the output picture
no, never

4) the preview picture shows the plain (not filtered, not encoded, not anything) dvd source!!!
no, nothing else
there cant be differences between gknot 0.28 and 0.27 as the dvd source always stays the same. if there is "fog" on the preview screen than there is "fog" on the dvd (or in your eyes ;) ) period

5) you cant compare gknot 0.28 and 0.27 by using xvid, as you cant use xvid in gknot 0.27
no, never


once again again:

what influences your output picture is:
1) the codec settings (your xvid settings look fine)
2) avisynth filters which can be
a) resize filter, like neutral bicub, lanczos...
b) noise filter (did you choose some noise filter in gknot, because they were changed since 0.27?)
-> plz post an .avs script used (when the fog occurs)
3) postprocessing (for example with ffdshow)

if you still want to try avisynth 2.0.x download this (http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gordianknot/GordianKnot.AviSynth2.0.8andPlugins.Setup.exe?download)!
no, you will never need 0.27 system or rip pack again with gknot 0.28!

[dihelson]

Originally posted by bond
once again

1) it seems that you are the only one who experience this (sorry to say that but...)

need 0.27 system or rip pack again with gknot 0.28!


Thanks, I will try it and see...

Regards,
Dihelson