How to isolate particular instruments ?

[Eye of Horus]

Hi all,

Perhaps someone here can help.
I got this question in my mail, and thought : this is one the guys on the Doom9 forum can answer !

"Out of curiosity, have you heard of any software that would allow you to isolate particular instruments or voices from a stereo stream. From there you could then manipulate to placement in a 5.1 setup. I know that most karaoke machines will just eliminate the lead vocal by removing information that is the same level in both L & R channels."

Well guys, any ideas ??

Eye of Horus

[JensG.]

First idea: Choose another title for your thread. Because this part of the forum is all about audio questions. Why would anyone look into this thread if he is not as patient as I am?

[pacohaas]

yes, JensG is right, and you should know this by now Eyes of Horus. As a moderator, I am obligated to strike you for Rule 9 Violation as a reminder that there are rules here and they have been made for a reason.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by JensG.
First idea: Choose another title for your thread. Because this part of the forum is all about audio questions. Why would anyone look into this thread if he is not as patient as I am?

You're right ! I changed it.....

kind regards,

Eoh

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by pacohaas
yes, JensG is right, and you should know this by now Eyes of Horus. As a moderator, I am obligated to strike you for Rule 9 Violation as a reminder that there are rules here and they have been made for a reason.

I PM'ed you !
I think the tone of your message "you should know this by now" is rather "false", to keep the subject "audio" ;)
And BTW it's Eye of Horus... not Eyes....
If he had two working eyes, he wouldn't have become "famous".

EoH

[JensG.]

And now answers, please! I am curious :)

[KpeX]

EoH, every filter I have ever heard of or tried in this category attempts what you said, some sort of comparison on the two channels and applying the difference or similarities. IMHO on limited testing these filters murder the sound and don't give the desired result. But who knows, maybe there are better filters out there than what I have tried, or perhaps it would work better on music other than mine.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
EoH, every filter I have ever heard of or tried in this category attempts what you said, some sort of comparison on the two channels and applying the difference or similarities. IMHO on limited testing these filters murder the sound and don't give the desired result. But who knows, maybe there are better filters out there than what I have tried, or perhaps it would work better on music other than mine.

Hi KpeX,

First : good job on writing a guide about converting stereo material to AC3. I just downloaded all necessary tools (one of them was hard to get > website down) and hope to do a full comparison with my own method. (just like Kempfand said !).
FWIW I converted a lot of stereomaterial to DPL this way :
(AC3 encoder from Scenarist)
Input stereo
Settings : 2.0 Dolby Prologic Compatible
Subwoofer enabled
90% phase shift
3 DB extra attentuation to the rear channels.

On some Pink Floyd and Alan Parsons stuff this gives amazing results.
Sometimes you think you're listening to DD5.1 instead of PL !
Only drawback : could not find any AC3 encoder that can do this (with THESE settings) in a batch !

Back to subject : You said you already tried some filters. Can you please include the titles here, so we know what to skip ?
Saves a lot of work and gives some ideas on what you tried and how we can go on from there......
thanks in advance.....

kind regards,

EoH

[KpeX]

I don't recall names ATM, I believe they were in the form of plugins for Cool Edit Pro. I'm not saying that I believe that they were performing poorly, just that I believe that type of filtering is not good for the audio, specifically retaining the original sound to a high degree. hope this clarifies somewhat,

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
I don't recall names ATM, I believe they were in the form of plugins for Cool Edit Pro. I'm not saying that I believe that they were performing poorly, just that I believe that type of filtering is not good for the audio, specifically retaining the original sound to a high degree. hope this clarifies somewhat,

Yep ! But... still we want to experiment :D

EoH

[Stratyon]

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
FWIW I converted a lot of stereomaterial to DPL this way :
(AC3 encoder from Scenarist)
Input stereo
Settings : 2.0 Dolby Prologic Compatible
Subwoofer enabled
90% phase shift
3 DB extra attentuation to the rear channels.


Can you please be a little more spesific?
or post a screenshot with the correct settings or something

~Stratyon

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by Stratyon
Can you please be a little more spesific?
or post a screenshot with the correct settings or something

~Stratyon

Huh ??

I don't know how to be more specific than I was.....
All the settings are there, what can a screenshot add ???

Not that I'm not willing to post any....

EoH

[Stratyon]

Well I can't find these two settings:
2.0 Dolby Prologic Compatible
Subwoofer enabled

The "subwoofer enabled" setting might refer to the FLE input setting, but I don't see how that works with stereo input.
And also 90% phase shift is grayed out with only 2.0 channels selected.
I must be missing something
Or did you use more then 2 channels for input?

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by Stratyon
Well I can't find these two settings:
2.0 Dolby Prologic Compatible
Subwoofer enabled

The "subwoofer enabled" setting might refer to the FLE input setting, but I don't see how that works with stereo input.
And also 90% phase shift is grayed out with only 2.0 channels selected.
I must be missing something
Or did you use more then 2 channels for input?

Are you sure you have the right encoder ???

On the bottom 3 buttons : help, clear and done.
Click on help and it gives you information about the version. (2.7.0.0236)

Also you should be able to input "2 ch interleaved input"...
and next to the box where you can chose that is : LFE enable...

EoH

[Stratyon]

Guess I have an older version. that might be the reason...

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by Stratyon
Guess I have an older version. that might be the reason...

I also used version 2.60 without any problem with the above settings....

EoH

[Stratyon]

okay, post screenshots then :)

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by Stratyon
okay, post screenshots then :)

here you go.........


deleted
deleted
deleted

[Stratyon]

So you use the same audio track as the FLE track?
I see the 90% phase shift is grayed out for you too :P

thanx for the screenshots :)

[DSPguru]

http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/audio/vremover.htm

fyi : i had never tested this tool.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by DSPguru
http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/audio/vremover.htm

fyi : i had never tested this tool.

I did > doesn't work in 90% of music, but it is nice to experiment with. Main drawback is what they say on their site : sometimes the reverb or ambience of the vocals is left. And it does effect not only the voice, it effects other instruments too.
But from all the vocal removal tools, this is still one of the best.

BTW we're still searching for the ultimate stereo > surround tool that equals the "hardware way". We've come a long end and it will not be that long before I publish a new Ambisonics guide. There has been so many changes over the past year in the development of new software, it's now a lot more simpler and faster to achieve to same results. But with other sftware.

What's your opinion ?
- add it to the existing guide
- replace the existing guide
- make a new guide = new thread

Start of writing it will be in the next few weeks. Is it possible to add pictures on the site ? I mean the real pictures, not the links ?


TTYL,

regards,

EoH

[SallyDog]

Hello EoH

My 2 cents worth; I think you should start a new thread/guide. I think this would be less confusing for those new to ambisonics.

In any event, I look forward to your next project.

Best regards,

SallyDog

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by SallyDog
Hello EoH

My 2 cents worth; I think you should start a new thread/guide. I think this would be less confusing for those new to ambisonics.

In any event, I look forward to your next project.

Best regards,

SallyDog

can I take the statistics on the current guide with me to the next one ??? :D :D :D :D

EoH

[DSPguru]

i created a new thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60137) and preserved the stats. please PM me to unlock it when you want to edit the first post with your new updated guide.

[SallyDog]

@EoH

Well, I guess the answer to your stats question is yes :D

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by DSPguru
i created a new thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60137) and preserved the stats. please PM me to unlock it when you want to edit the first post with your new updated guide.

Hi DSPGuru,

Well, it will be more a complete new Ambisonics method than an update :-) (No more need to use Cooledit and the Aurora plugins....)

How about my other question : Is it possible to include pictures in the guide directly. I mean... not a link to one of my external guides, but pictures that stay on screen in the guide ?

It would make it a lot easier, because the setup is a bit difficult to describe without additional pictures.

I also promise a big surprise, that will be a great help in a lot of methods and programs. Even in Besweet/Besure !

I leave you all guessing for now...... :-)

kind regards,

EoH

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by SallyDog
@EoH

Well, I guess the answer to your stats question is yes :D

Whoopi !!!!

:D

EoH