what is the *PROPER* NTSC DeInterlace method?

[C0G0N3]

I am using DVD2SVCD 1.0.9 Build 3
Cinema Craft Encoder 2.50.1.0 as the encoder.
The DVD's I am backing-up are Region 1 NTSC (dont have any PAL DVD's)
I play my SVCD's on my stand-alone DVD Player, not on the PC.

I have been reading conflicting reports on this whole proper-deinterlacing
thing using CCE and DVD2SVCD.

I have always used Smartdeinterlace in the past to deinterlace any Interlaced DVD's
in DVD2SVCD. I have noticed that while it removes the annoying horizontal lines,
it leaves the video slightly more blockly and un-crisp. That I could do without.
The other day (after reading the forum) I tried not using Smartdeinterlace and instead
use the Advanced options in CCE. Zig-Zag scanning order & Progressive frames UnChecked.
I was lead to belive this would leave the video Interlaced but tag the video in some way
that my stand-alone DVD Player would Deinterlace while playing, just the way it does when
I play that (Interlaced) DVD.

Unfortunately it didn't. The resulting video had horizontal lines, and ghosting from the
other fields during motion scenes. I tried playing the SVCD on 2 other stand-alone DVD
Players and I get the same problem.

What did I do wrong?

I tried checking the DVD in DVD2AVI beforehand. It's 29.97 fps, INTERLACED, with no % of
film when played. It's a 16:9 Anamorphic WideScreen I was encoding as [16:9 Borders added
encoded as 4:3]. I thought that 'squishing' it as a "16:9 as 4:3" encode would help hide
those INTERLACE lines but I was sadly mistaken.

Here is my Bitrate Viewer log for the DVD:
Num. of picture read: 33233
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 720*480
Aspect ratio: 16:9 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 8000000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 10
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Field
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: Alternate
Frame type: Interlaced
Notes:


I have seen other SVCD's that showed horizontal lines when played in Windows Media Player,
but had NONE when played on my DVD Player.
These seem to have better quality than those that are pre-deinterlaced with Smartdeinterlace etc.

So I guess my questions are...

1) What are the settings (in DVD2SVCD) for a INTERLACED DVD, 29.97 fps w/ no film % using CCE 2.5?

2) What are the settings (in DVD2SVCD) for a INTERLACED DVD, 29.97 fps w/ some film % using CCE 2.5?

3) What are the settings (in DVD2SVCD) for a INTERLACED DVD, that is 23.976 fps FILM using CCE 2.5?

4) When should Force Film be used? Does it have anything to do with deinterlacing? I have it set to
Automatic, is that ok?


I have been up-the-wall trying to make this work without having to spend many
hours re-encoding the movie over, and over.
I am very confused being that everyone and their cousin has a different opinion, any pro-encoders out
there that can wrap this thing-up in a nutshell?

Thanks for your help. :)

[Jason28]

The problem is that you cant wrap it up in a nutshell. There are many things that you can read in this forum and on the web that will explain what interlacing is and why we have it. The reason why you see the interlacing on your moniter is that it plays things in progressive and not interlaced. Your TV can play both.

When you use smartdeinterlace on your DVDs you are always going to have blurriness on the video. It has to do with how it puts the fields back together. You shouldnt have more blocks then you normally would.

When you encode a video at 16:9 with borders added you are keeping the correct aspect ratio but just adding the 2 black borders so that your DVD player will be able to play the SVCD correctly (most players cant play a true 16:9 SVCD). So you are not going to squish the lines or remove them in any way.

Well I am sure that there are people out there that know WAY more about this then I do but, when I encounter an interlaced DVD I always use Smartdeinterlace on it. I was always pleased with the results. I know that you can use some Avisynth scripts to get some better results (no I dont know what those scripts are :p) but I havent had to yet.

You should only use force film when you know that your material is interlaced and you know that DVD2SVCD is not using force film when its supposed it.

If you dont want to encode a whole movie to see how it turns out them just do a chapter of the movie. It will take you about 20 mins or so to do it.

[C0G0N3]

Im thinking about trying IVTC on my next INTERLACED NTSC DVD, instead of using Smartdeinterlace.

My question is, Force Film and IVTC reduce a (blended) frame rate of 29.97 to 23.976.

Sooooo... how come the Force Film option doesn't Deinterlace, but IVTC does?

And why is IVTC so slow compared to Force Film?

Also, If im using IVTC do I Un-Check (in CCE's advance settings) Zig-"Zag Scanning Order", and "Progressive Frames"? Or leave Checked?

And should I set the Field Order according to what the "Bitrate Viewer" proggie tells me, or leave as 'Automatic'? Does that even matter?

Looking forward to any and all input.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by C0G0N3
My question is, Force Film and IVTC reduce a (blended) frame rate of 29.97 to 23.976. Sooooo... how come the Force Film option doesn't Deinterlace, but IVTC does?

They actually are pretty much the same. They do a reverse of the telecine process. (The fact that they both deinterlace is just a side effect).

And why is IVTC so slow compared to Force Film?

Because force-film does not look at the frames. It just uses the flags. If the film is properly telecined, this can be done without error. IVTC instead analizes and processes every field/frame to do its job. And does it very well.

Also, If im using IVTC do I Un-Check (in CCE's advance settings) Zig-"Zag Scanning Order", and "Progressive Frames"? Or leave Checked?

Don't mess around with this. If the movie is being converted to 24fps, CCE must treat it as a progressive one. Don't change this.

And should I set the Field Order according to what the "Bitrate Viewer" proggie tells me, or leave as 'Automatic'? Does that even matter?

Automatic has always worked for me. Please take a look at this guide, you will find plenty of info. The bottom line for NTSC is also very useful:

http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm

Hope this helps.

[manono]

Hi-

To follow up on what r6d2 said:

Sooooo... how come the Force Film option doesn't Deinterlace, but IVTC does?

Think of Force Film as a weak form of IVTC. Assuming you're starting with a movie (originally 24fps), then it may be encoded as Progressive or as Interlaced. The Progressively encoded ones can be Force Filmed. When you open the .d2v for that kind of DVD, it will say 01230123... If it has been encoded as Interlaced, or as a mix of Progressive and Interlaced, then Force Film will screw up and leave you with interlacing and jerky playback. Those have to be IVTC'd. You open the .d2v of those and they will say 0000..., or 2222..., or a mix of those and the earlier 01230123...

However, anything that was filmed as video (this includes most concert DVDs, some TV series DVDs, a lot of sports DVDs, and some low budget indie type movies), will also have all 2222..., or 0000... in the .d2v. But those can only be kept at 29.97fps and deinterlaced. And I won't even discuss the hybrid DVDs here, such as the notorious ST:TNG series. :) But read the tutorial to which r6d2 linked. It's explained in greater detail in there. Thanks for the plug, r6d2. :)