new copyright law in germany

[mikegun]

hi there,

maybe of interest and plz excuse my bad english ...
on 1st august there is a new law concerning protecting copyrighted material. in fact you are still allowed to make copies of your legal
owned dvd/audio cd unless there is no copy protection on the disk.
you are not allowed to backup css protected dvds, nor use tools or
publish guides describing this process.

I wonder how I'm legally able to use my mp3 player in my car e.g.
or how to deal with css protected dvds from this day on.

regards,

mike

[markrb]

From my limited knowledge of German law this seems like a radical change. If I remember correctly you were able to copy movies that you just rented before.

Was this sudden or was this in the works for some time?

Mark

[The Edge]

Seems radical alright. Haven't seen any news stories as of yet. Have you got url to news story?

Edge

[Awatef]

They have no way to control that, so it's a useless law :D

[Zhnujm]

wasnt that a law for the complete eu ?
anyway, i doubt it will change anything.

[TactX]

Originally posted by Awatef
They have no way to control that, so it's a useless law :D
ACK

And even if they catch someone who made a backup of a scrambled DVD, it will be just a misdemeanor and not an offense.

[dRD]

Problem isn't really with the users -- some EU countries who have implemented this (EUCD - European Union Copyright Directive) have still allowed using copy-protection circumvention tools for personal use. But the main issue is that distributing, manufacturing, selling or advertising (even when free) tools or software that can be used for circumventing copy-protection (DeCSS, DVD Decrypter, SmartRipper, DVD2SVCD in its current form, DVD Shrink in its current form, etc) is illegal and maximum penalty is normally couple of years behind the bars.

So, if Doom9 or other websites who distribute such tools -- even for free -- are hosted _OR_ operated within EU, after the EUCD is implemented to remaining EU countries (its in effect -- AFAIK -- in Italy, Germany, Denmark already), the changes of survival are quite weak (EUCD doesn't require advanced warnings like DMCA does -- just cops knocking on the door).

Same applies to CloneCD, etc tools that allow circumventing CD copy protections.. modchips.. etc..

[mpucoder]

DVDFab has already been affected, Joerg told me several days ago he had to remove links from the site as a result of the new law. And, indeed, I can't see how to download the program from http://www.dvdfab.com (but you can still get it from mrbass mirror (http://www.mrbass.org/dvdfab/) )

[mikegun]

Originally posted by markrb
From my limited knowledge of German law this seems like a radical change. If I remember correctly you were able to copy movies that you just rented before.

Was this sudden or was this in the works for some time?

Mark

hi,

this was in the works for some time.
if you take this 100% serious you'll not allowed to use software/hardware that does
support the "raw modus" because it can copy protected material like audio cds for example.

regards,

mike

[Selur]

over at the t-online hompage there are some questions (answered by a lawyer) regarding the new copyright.
see: Rechtsanwalt C. Czirnich bei T-Online (http://computer.t-online.de/comp/soft/pro-/fs/CP/fs-urheberrechtsnovelle.html)
also interesting might be: Kopieren verboten (http://computer.t-online.de/comp/soft/pro-/ar/CP/ar-urheberrecht-11juli.html)
btw. there also was a small note about it at slashdot yesterday DMCA-Alikes Sweep Europe (http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/03/07/14/0229253.shtml?tid=185)

Cu Selur

[Kika]

Don't forget: It's still allowed to copy all the DVDs/CDs you rented for. But it is NOT allowed to crack any Copy-Protection. And it is not longer legal to write about Cracking or provide Programs and Guides about that.

If you are able to Copy such Disks without cracking a Protection (and there are Ways to do that), then it is legal (like we Germans say. "Das liegt in der Grauzone").
Guess we have to go back to the roots...

[BaronVlad]

So we should be happy that we know how to work with these programs as the guides may be down some time :D

[mikegun]

I'm not sure if it is legal to make copies if you copy the protection mechanism, like a bitwise 1:1 copy ...
As I understand this, if there is a copy protection like CSS you are not allowd to make a copy, regardless how you make it.

[Kika]

Wrong, only cracking a protection is illegal, nothing else.
It's the same with Macrovision: Decoders seems to be illegal - if they are named that Way. Signal Enhancers aren't illegal anyway... ;)

Don't be scared about the new Law. It's only hard for People who only know Programs like DVDshrink and so on. They are illegal soon. It's also hard for PC-Magacines, they can't write any longer about copying CDs and DVDs. And Software-Manufactores with DVD-Rip-Software... hm, guess they have a problem now.

[Doom9]

The proposed German law and the DMCA are very much alike, meaning that as with the DMCA it's merely a matter of interpretation whether you're allowed to descramble or not. Copyright law still applies either way.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yes, these changes to EU law have been threatened for quite a while now.

All the activity in ha*k*ng digital satellite has not helped matters either. Over here in England there was a serious problem with Ond*g*tal (ITVd*g*tal) the terestrial digital network, as it was ha*ked with a vengeance!

Anyway it's always been illegal to copy any audio and video material in the UK. Even if you own the original.

About the only thing you are legally able to copy in this country is a TV signal using a video recorder but even then restictions apply.

A few years ago a friend of mine made his own RGB to S-VHS/composite transcoder box. Which allowed him to make copies of a macrovision encrypted source (DVD and satellite) via the RGB video output which at the time did not carry an macrovision encryption signal (something to do with creating problems for projectors). I don't know whether this is still the case.

But as far as copying audio goes. It should be possible (hopefully for many years to come) and in some countries, quite legal for an individual to capture the audio stream via the 'analogue outputs' of there CD players etc directly to their PC's in much the same way as some people still do now to compact cassette. Sure it's slower but at least your not cracking any encryption codes.

And if the RGB thing still works for video you could use this method to capture the signal from a DVD player to a DVD recorder.

Where there's a will. There's a way!

[TactX]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
About the only thing you are legally able to copy in this country is a TV signal using a video recorder but even then restictions apply.
:eek: Which restrictions are there?

S.th. like not being allowed to share your recordings with friends?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Oh cr*p. I knew someone was gonna ask me that!

There was a review in a magazine not so long ago about this issue. I'll have to dig it out and provide extracts.

Ofcouse I'll have to re-word it. So I don't get taken away by the copyright police!

........share recordings with friends. You must be kidding. Soon you won't be able to repeat a joke you heard off the TV or radio!

Walls have ears...... but they can't get me now all mine are lined with tin foil!

[DVDToolbox]

Maybe someone can translate this (I'm just too tired ..)
http://www.allesfertig.de/forum/thread.php?threadid=8668&sid=

Here only the core:

I give up all DVD things.
Last version of DVDFab wil be on homepage on 07/17/03
without any nag screens.
On 07/31/03 websites will be shut down.

I'd like to thank the people at doom9 for there work.
Doom9 for his great platform,
and MPUCoder for his great documentation.


So long

Joerg

[killingspree]

hi DVDtoolbox,
sad to hear that... anyway, just an idea: did you ever think about releasing the source codes of your programs to public. i mean i think everybody respects your decision to discontinue the work and at least i definitely understand why you did so (after reading your german post).
but it would definitely be an adantage for the community if you released the source. perhaps somebody decides to continue your fabulous work!

steVe

[mrbass]

google translated German to English (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allesfertig.de%2Fforum%2Fthread.php%3Fthreadid%3D8668%26sid%3D&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)

Hey Joerg,
Guess when that law was proposed in 2001 people didn't care until they get screwed. Always care when it's too late. I find it odd that 321Studios is expanding and opening up offices in Europe just now. Maybe they'll have to pullback or push forward and challenge the law against the fair use law.

Thanks for making a FREEWARE alternative to the evil DVDXCopy. That is a HUGE thing. I know you spent many weekends when you could have spent them with your family hacking on DVDFab.

Hopefully a miracle will happen. I sure wish people would speak up and let developers of software know how much they appreciate it. Everyone assumes thousands of people must do it so why should they. Same with donations, etc.

[mrbass]

Originally posted by killingspree
hi DVDtoolbox,
sad to hear that... anyway, just an idea: did you ever think about releasing the source codes of your programs to public. i mean i think everybody respects your decision to discontinue the work and at least i definitely understand why you did so (after reading your german post).
but it would definitely be an adantage for the community if you released the source. perhaps somebody decides to continue your fabulous work!

steVe

Ain't gonna happen. Contact him if interested in purchasing the source. He gave us a great 'last freeware' edition and I'm extremely grateful for that.

[Doom9]

Paragraph 53, Section3:
It is forbidden to manufacture, import, disseminate, sale, renta, advertise with the intent to sell or rent, and own for commercial use, of devices, products or parts thereof, and the offer of services which:
1) are part of a sales promotion, advertisement or commercial exploitation with the intent to circumvent effective technical measures (there they mean copy protection schemes, which are explained in some detail, but in the usual law terms meaning they don't mean js anyway) or
2) which besides the circumvention of effective measures only have a limited commercial use or
3) were mainly designed, manufactured, adjusted or rendered, to make the circumvention of effective measures possible or to facilite them.

Compare that to 1201 in the US DMCA.. my translation into English legal babble is certainly not perfect, but this is pretty much the same. Meaning, you can expect to happen what has happened in the US. Companies offering commercial CSS decryption will most likely be sued by the MPAA. Freeware and open source is left alone (after an initial onslaught against the open source community, the harassment has stopped.. last summer I was able to play DVDs with an "out of the box" Linux installation).

Paragraph 95:
If the copyright owner makes use of technical measures as set forth in this law, he is under the obligation, to offer each of the belowmentioned categories if they have rightful access to the work or the protected object, the necessary means to make use of these designations:
blah blah blah
- No53 (copies for private and otherwise personal use).

Paragraph53:
Permitted are single duplications of a work by a non commercial entity for private use on any support, if they do not directly or indirectly serve to commercial use. The entity entitled to duplication can also have the duplicates produced by someone else, as long as this happens free of charge, or ....

Please excuse my bad translation again, I did not find a dictionary and legal babble is hard till impossible to translate without those.

But my point is: As in the DMCA, there are excemptions that still permit fair use. So, as in the US, there's no need to panic. Circumventing a copy protection and offer your DVDrips on Kazaa has always been, and will always be illegal, but making your own copies won't be a problem.
In a way, the German law is better, as it states that the copyright holder is required to offer you a way to make a copy for fair use purposes. I'm sure that if you go ask the MPAA they won't help you, thus they are in violation of the same law they have pressed so hard to pass.

Last but not least, and I do know that judges will never really see that, and will probably turn down experts like the previously MPAA sponsored courts have, but anything found on a DVD is not an effective measure to protect the copyright. TripleDES, or 256bit AES encryption is an effective measure, but a scrambling mechanism that a teenager can break is not. I'm sure cryptographers all over the world had a blast finding out how crappy CSS really is. There was an issue about the copy protection of PDF documents a while back. Adobe once used something simple as a ROT13 (for those who don't know, this means rotating each letter half around the alphabet). Of course, the sued under the DMCA, but that was not an effective measure.

[mpucoder]

I always poked fun at the term "effective measure". If someone can defeat it, it is not effective.

[Kika]

@mpucoder

I guess, judges won't see it that way...
:rolleyes:

[erbuk]

We are getting this in Sweden too from 1 January. And what's even worse, they will add a $3,5 tax on DVDRW discs (they call it a copyright fee) and $1,5 for DVDR discs. CDRs and CDRWs are also affected :mad:

[chemmajik]

Turning out to be a 80's rerun... to me that is.

[marnum]

I hope they won't pass this law in Austria :scared:

The funny thing is: you may download every descrambling software, but you aren't allowed to use it :p
So what are users supposed to do? Download Smartripper just for the hell of it and then don't use it because that's illegal?

[erbuk]

I don't think you have any choice. As I understood it all EU countries have to do this :(

[SeeMoreDigital]

Anybody fancy hosting the Doom9 website (and some software etc) in a non EU country!

Maybe a small tropical island somewhere!

[killingspree]

@marnum: i do definitely hope the same.
anyway, although most people will not know what you mean by it, please change your 'title text' (stating you hate Jörg Haider - although i can fully understand your feelings regarding our Jörgile). As you might have missed there is a sticky in the general discussion forum stating that political discussion and statements are not allowed in the forum. In my eyes your title definitely is of a political form.

thanks
steVe
PS: moving the doom9 server to an extra european country would definitely not hurt on the long run... :)

[erbuk]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Maybe a small tropical island somewhere!

We always have the Swiss; they're not only good at making cheese.

By the way, the law is based on the EU-parliaments directive 2001/29/EG from 22 may 2001. Can't say that I feel like reading it but maybe someone else is bored enough :D

[mpucoder]

FYI, at least one Doom9 server is non-EU (USA).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yes,

what ever happened to EU freedom of speech laws?

[erbuk]

Ok, this is near to being too political. I hope they give you a warning before the ban you permanently :scared:

I'm not sure EU is the real problem in this case. As I said I don't feel like reading the EU directive but I fear that the copyright lobbyists sees an opportunity to make the local governments enforce even harder restrictions than the EU directive intended. It doesn't matter for the politicians if the law is unpopular in this case cause they can always blame it on the EU. It wouldn't be the first time that happened, at least not where I live.

[mpucoder]

@erbuk: relax, rule 15 states "Political discussion not directly related to DVD backup issues are prohibited." (emphasis by me). Copyright laws like this are in our interest to discuss.

[erbuk]

Good, I was afraid I was crossing the line there :)

[marnum]

Changed my signature.

@killingspree: Geht das? :D

[killingspree]

"@killingspree: Geht das? "

hmmm... I think so :)

thanks
[edit]PS: for all non german speakers: "Geht das?" can be translated as "That ok now?" ;)