DVD-RW won't play on Pioneer DV-454

[ArnoF]

Hi!

I have captured a movie from a MiniDV-cassette, converted it to MPEG2 and burned it to a DVD-RW. I've used the following programs:
- Picture: TMPGEnc 2.59 / MPEG2 / 2-Pass-VBR 7500 kbit/s / PAL 720x576
- Audio: BeSweet v1.4 / AC3 (2.0) / 256 kbit/s / 48 kHz
- Authoring: IfoEdit -> DVD Author -> Author New DVD (M2V-file and AC3)
- DVD-recording program: Nero, latest version

This DVD-RW works perfectly with PowerDVD and my Cyberhome CH-505 standalone DVD player. At a friend's Pioneer DV-454 the disc cannot be played, after inserting the DVD the player says "This disc cannot be played".

Have I done something wrong during the transcoding, authoring and burning process? Or does anyone know about problems with the Pioneer DV-454 player?

Thanks in advance,
Arno

[oddyseus]

Have u checked if this player supports dvd-rw media?

If it does, change the burning process and use imgtools 0.89. This build isn't based upon nero's burning machine and it is known to be compatible with the majority of standalones and dvd playback capable consoles.

[influenza]

Check here : http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=Pioneer+DV-454+&Search=Search

According to this dvd-RW should be supported but only if you write them in a certain way.

[ArnoF]

Hi!

Thank you for the link. It says...
"DVD-R works only if burned in UDF mode do not use UDF/ISO (also known as UDF Bridge)."

Well, I don't know DVD authoring very well and I'm quite astonished by that statement.
The reason: I've once authored a MiniDVD, burned it to a CD-RW in UDF mode and my Cyberhome 505 standalone player didn't accept the CD. BUT it worked perfectly when I burned it in UDF/ISO mode.
Is that different with DVDs? Does the DVD standard demand an UDF recording?

Another posting says "Nero works well, but it's important to set ISO Level 1 without any reduction of ISO constraints.". Well, that would say that UDF/ISO is ok... I guess, I'll have to burn a few test DVDs which isn't very helpful because I don't own the Pioneer player (and no DVD recorder either)...

When I create an image with ImgTools I don't have to worry about UDF/ISO or UDF, right?

[oddyseus]

right. Switch to imgtools and u ll be OK

[MMhardKy]

Well, I don't know why it sayes disc cannot be played, but I know that Pioneer players have problems with BeSweet encoded AC3 audio. The playback pauses after few seconds (but the disc should start at least). At least that happens on my Pioneer DV-646 and on many other players like DV-444 etc. You have to encode AC3 in Softencode. Works great on my pioneer.

[MMhardKy]

Oh, and I also had problems with DVDs authored in IfoEdit on my Pioneer. The same content authored in Maestro works perfectly.

[ArnoF]

I really start to dislike the Pioneer players... :devil:
SoftEncode is a commercial program and so is Maestro and both programs are discontinued. Anyways, I wouldn't spend a lot of money just so that my DVDs work on Pioneer players. The only thing I don't understand is why everybody says that Pioneer players can play everything. The DV-454 has problems with the slightest difference from the SVCD standard (higher video or audio bitrate) and obviously there are also lots of problems with self-made DVDs...

Well, I've created an image with ImgTools and I'll see if it works. I can give you feedback on Monday.

[auenf]

Originally posted by ArnoF
I really start to dislike the Pioneer players... :devil:

Pioneer standalones are good, as long as you stick to the spec.

Nero has had a problem for a while with dvd video burning.

ive heard that IFOEdit's 'author' is really just a hack, but ive never used it.

if you want you can buy a dvd player like mine that will play a dvd video even if your burnt the files in the wrong order.

Enf...

[ArnoF]

Pioneer standalones are good, as long as you stick to the spec.
That's exactly the problem. As far as I can see, there is no free or cheap solution to burn a DVD+/-R that is 100% standard compliant (just 99.999%)...
When I don't accept the crappy MP2-quality, I will even have to pay lots of money (much more than I can afford) when I want to use the DVD on a "high quality player".
Well, these are the facts obviously and I have to face them. :rolleyes:
The only thing I know is, that I will stick to good "NoName-players" (like the Cyberhome CH 505) that accept most self-created DVDs and (S)VCDs even when they are only 99% standard-compliant. And I'm sure that I'll have more fun with that than someone who spends a lot of money for a "high-end" DVD-player that can only play retail DVDs.

Just my 2 cents...

[SupaCoopa]

I have a Pioneer DV-535 and a Pioneer DV-454. They play pretty much everything. Unfinalised audio CD-Rs (this is great), multisession audio CD-Rs, "on-spec" VCD and SVCD, xVCD and xSVCD with bitrates up to 3.5kbit in strange resolutions, the 454 plays mp3, both play DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW and DVD+RW absolutely flawlessly. I even have DVD-Rs that won't play on some PC DVD-ROMs but play fine on the 535. You probably have to be more careful as to how you burn your discs. I have come to the conclusion that the best way to burn a DVD-+R (at least for Pioneers) is to use ImgTool 1.00.4 or higher and use the following settings in "Filesystem Flags": Enable UDF and DISABLE ISO 9660. I have yet to burn a disc this way that won't play on the Pioneers. However I have also used Nero 5.5.10+ (where you can't disable ISO) and these play fine too. Maybe I'm just a lucky guy...

It's true that most cheapo stand-alones allow playback of discs that go way out of any specifications and that they're less picky about media. This is probably because those brands do not care about quality issues or that they don't have to obbey industry rules as the major companies have. If your Cyberhome plays self-burned discs better than the Pioneer, stick with it. But since the Pioneers are not Sony (talking about picky!) you might want to further investigate what causes trouble. You will see a big difference in sound and video quality if you play back the same disc in Pioneer and Cyberhome and this is especially noticable for re-encoded DVDs.

[ArnoF]

"on-spec" VCD and SVCD, xVCD and xSVCD with bitrates up to 3.5kbit in strange resolutions
Well, I once burned a SVCD with 3500 kbit/s CBR and it stuttered like hell on the Pioneer DV-454...

You will see a big difference in sound and video quality if you play back the same disc in Pioneer and Cyberhome and this is especially noticable for re-encoded DVDs.
I'm quite sure that you have never seen a Cyberhome CH-505 for yourself. The player has a REALLY good picture (much better than the real cheap players and a lot better than the Cyberhome 4xx series). In fact, in many tests (like in Stiftung Warentest) the 505's picture quality was rated just as high as the quality of Pioneer/Sony players. So much for that, but that's off-topic anyway.

Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to play back the disc on the Pioneer player this weekend, but I'll stick to my disc (now burned an image created with ImgTools) since I don't have much of a choice anyways. If it doesn't play on Pioneer/Sony players then it doesn't. That's life. :sly:

[SupaCoopa]

Well, I once burned a SVCD with 3500 kbit/s CBR and it stuttered like hell on the Pioneer DV-454...

ArnoF, I would guess you're generally unlucky with your burning projects... :confused: I have a dozen or so SVCDs, VBR encoded (which is more prone to playback trouble) with bitrate maxed up to 3.5kbit and they all play fine. I even tried making an xSVCD with DVD resolution (720x576) once . Well, it pixelated like hell (like it should) but didn't stutter one bit. Maybe it's your burning speed, this seemed to matter in (S)VCD as I remember a lot of threads about that in the fora when I was interested in VCD/SVCD. By the way, Pioneers support (S)VCD @ 3.5kbit max for audio and video combined, not 3.5kbit video only.

As for quality issues, it's true that I've never seen a 5xx series Cyberhome and I haven't heard of Stiftung Warentest, but a mate has a one-year old Cyberhome (can't recall the model) and a Dennon player that costs five times the price of Cyberhome. With the same disc, the cheap one pixelates, the expensive one gives crisp and clear picture. My Pioneers just don't bother me, but I wish I had that Denon of my own. I won't disagree that maybe newer or more expensive Cyberhomes are better in terms of quality than older/cheaper ones, but in HT equipment you usually get what you pay for. Which is kind of unfortunate for most of us poor lads... :(

Good luck with your burning/playback!

[ArnoF]

I'm quite sure that it's not my burning speed since I only have an 8x (CD-R) / 4x (CD-RW) CD-recorder (Sony CRX-140E).
My SVCD had a bitrate of 3.5 kbit/s for video only so it was a bit more. I also had a SVCD with standard video encoding and 256 kbit/s MP2-sound and that stuttered, too. Maybe I was quite unlucky.

Stiftung Warentest is a very big product testing organization in Germany. They are a foundation and are paid by the state and the selling of their magazine. Since they test really everything a consumer can buy (from condoms to cellular phones), they are probably not the most qualified DVD player testers, but when they say that something's good then you definetely make no mistake when you buy it. I often relied on their tests and I never got disappointed.
But I've read good tests of the 505 in several other (more "technical") magazines, too. The "5xx series" is not a guarantee for quality, though. The 528 sold by Cyberhome America (the 505 is made by Cyberhome Europe) is said to be not as good.