DVD Shrink 2.3 vers IC 7.1.1

[geffroman]

First let me thank you guys in advance for your opinions on this..

But let me also say NO NEED TO TRASH A PRODUCT OR TELL ME WHICH ONE YOU HAVE AN EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TO...

I ALSO am not interested in a technical features comparison... I know both products well...

WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR...

The TRUTH about quality differences in compression with these two products on the average 6.5GB to 7.5GB DVD-9 to DVD-5.

Has anyone tested the same movie on both SHRINK & IC and displayed it via a QUALITY 36 TO 40 INCH TUBE Television in progessive mode(preferably XBR level - Projection, Tiny college TV and low end 35 inchers need not reply !)

I am truly looking for any good technical opinion about quality of the compression differences... I'd like to use DVD SHRINK on everything but still assume IC is better for heavy compression (20% to 30% sometimes)

I would like to prove or disprove this theory based on knowledgable opinion here...

BUT PLEASE... AGAIN... DON'T JUST CHIME IN WITH AN UNTESTED OPINION CAUSE YOU LOVE ONE SOFTWARE OR THE OTHER... Especially if you watch your result on a $49 Apex and a 20 inch hand me down...

Thanks again for your input... Jeff

[sapient]

Not trying to bug you here, but even the biggest, best TV does not have the resolution of a common pc monitor. So probably everyone can "chime in".

[papillon]

Let me chime in.
Do you always talk down to people?

You already own(?) IC, and DvdShrink was given to you.
Be a mentor, share the knowledge you gain with others, buy proving or disproving your-own theories, since you... "know both products well..."

I anxiously await your papers.

ps. I own an XBR, did that qualify me to post.

[mpucoder]

This basically is why we have rule #12. Everything concerning quality is subjective. And there are many variables, the monitor being one, plus other equipment and finally personal preference.
At the stations where I've worked they use Ikagami monitors, very expensive industry standard (because you can put any 2 side-by-side and see the same thing), and yet the TD (technical director, the guy who pushes the buttons), PD (program director, the guy running the show), and CC (camera controller, the guy who adjusts the cameras, not the operator) all disagree about the image.

[snidely]

Wow, a request for opinions is preceded by a stern lashing before anyone even posts....how amusing. :)

Anyway, I'll echo the essence of mpucoder's post. It doesn't matter what any of us think about the quality differences. The only thing that really matters is what you think of them, viewed with your eyes, on your own equipment. There are too many variables here to make any real determinations, and despite your inspirational post, I doubt that many people will be encouraged to offer their opinions. I've said enough, and I will now go back to my room without supper. :)

[drmih]

I would think that the size or quality of a monitor or tv is irrelevant if you are looking for a defacto answer as you're going to have to look at the reletive bitrate for different frames featuring different content on a pc. I'll chuck in my opinion whilst I'm here though and must say that I can detect the difference in the packages with even a monitor or small screen. Since IC7 sorted out the size problem I would put it as a poor mans CCE which provides a good quality across a range of subject matters. All of the other packages fall within a different group and it is harder to detect the difference between them. However, they all seem to fall down when you have areas of minimal contrast (flat walls, sky, matt surfaces etc) and you get shimmering and blocking, particularly on b/w sources. Assuming the compression ratio is not over the top I have always found CCE (obviously) and IC7 to do a much better job on these.

I have found a very good solution to quality for those with very expensive systems who are worried about their enjoyment level and that is to go to those people who sell original discs and buy them - I was amazed at the quality and you even get a box and booklet.

[luphy]

My system probably qualifies as a poor man's system and
my eyes are not so picky that I can really tell the differences
between one program from the next probably.

I agree with the previous poster - if you have that great a
system and are so concerned about maintaining the quality
for future viewing, you can either buy another copy or make 1:1 copies onto 2 discs. And when higher capacity writeable discs come out - you can then copy from those 2 discs onto the newer one.
Time a factor? Using CSS and you're worried about time?
Or money a factor? Well you get what you pay for - that's life.


Face it folks, the movies you are preserving now will pale
in the near future when higher capacity discs come out that will
support HDTV quality. The DVDs of today will be like the
vidoecassettes of yesterday. Your pursuit of the perfect
system to view your perfect movie is neverending.

Anyways, I'm off topic - and since I have no experience with IC
yet, I won't chime in on quality differences, though the consensus
from this board is that IC is better for larger movies that require
higher compression.

[geffroman]

The original question remains... has ANYONE used the latest version of DVD SHRINK and IC to do the same movie and compare the result on a non crap television...?

Sincere answers are very much appreciated...

Thanks...

[geffroman]

Originally posted by papillon
Let me chime in.


ps. I own an XBR, did that qualify me to post.

No... because your were rude, snotty and offered NOTHING of value.

I help people on the forum whenever I see them struggling with something I already have learned.

But typically I try to stay out of stupid conversations like this one.

For someone claiming I talk down to people you are just flat out rude to people.

[geffroman]

Originally posted by sapient
Not trying to bug you here, but even the biggest, best TV does not have the resolution of a common pc monitor. So probably everyone can "chime in".

This is true.. But the monitor also helps hide to some degree some of the faults... The resulting image does degrade on any set top box and TV... So targeting a viewing standard is important to make a real comparison of value...

I have a Mintek and a 20" Panasonic in the bedroom I would never use to test image quality because that set up destroys the image even on a store bought DVD... So even though some decided to flame me and get all offended... Their ability to view and offer feedback is crippled by their viewing options...

No offense was meant to edgy people that wanted to post and felt put off because I was specific in my question... In truth I was thankful and appreciative and SPECIFIC about what I was looking for because I am sure that the combined talent pool on this forum knows the answer to my question...

It is genrally assumed that IC is better when it comes to compression. But I have seen NO recent and SPECIFIC talk about the latest versions of DVD SHRINK (which has improved a lot) and IC (which seems to be about the same in image quality) as it pertains to image loss with compression.

If it turns out no one knows... or no one responds I will of course have to spend a few days doing a few movies with both products and then watch and compare... and of course I would post any specific technical result as is allowed and appropriate...

The point of asking questions here is to save time and share knowledge for the betterment of all... If no one was allowed to ask a question... then no one would answer them... and we would NOT have a forum...

Thanks again... Jeff

If you can't be nice don't say anything...

[snidely]

The original question remains... has ANYONE used the latest version of DVD SHRINK and IC to do the same movie and compare the result on a non crap television...?

Yup, I have used the the latest versions of both IC and DVDShrink quite a bit, and I have compared the results using my Electrohome Marquee 9500LC 9" CRT projected on a 100" x 56" screen, and I have definite opinions as to how they look to me, but like I have already posted, you will need to do the comparisons for yourself, as you and I don't see things the same way. If I can offer a clue, I now use DVDShrink for lesser compressions, and CCE for greater compressions, and I no longer bother with IC at all, but this is just my opinion.

I don't like to use compression at all, but if the disc requires very little (like less than 20%), then I want the process to be fast, as I feel that most of the compressors do just fine when asked to compress minimally, so I see no need to put up with IC's quirks and long transcode times just to do simple tasks.

When I really need a lot of compression, then IC still doesn't cut the mustard, as so far CCE has produced better results. Since both programs work within the realm of hours, rather than minutes, I feel that the long reencoding time is better spent using CCE, and once again IC has no useful purpose for me.

So to answer your question, I have no need to compare IC to DVDShrink at all, since for "fast" compression I use DVDShrink, and for "quality" compression I use CCE. Basically I use the right tool for the right job. Why use IC at all?

[MackemX]

I wasn't gonna post cos most had been covered but I guess I will now

basically do the tests yourself cos it's your eyes using your setup and your settings in whatever program you use etc etc

you could come over my house and view the same pics on my setup, yet how is it we could still disagree about which is the best quality of the two

it's cos people have a varied opinion of what is pleasing for their eyes

the best is whatever is most pleasing for your eyes using your setup no matter how good or crap it is so don't be offended when people say try it for yourself

I would offer my full opinions in the past but now I reckon if people ask which is the best quality then I believe they do not have an eye for quality because of their indecision

If people did have an eye then they wouldn't ask for other opinions as they would make your their mind up regardless of whatever anyone else thinks, even if it was 99% against their opinion!

so go out and buy a rewritable and then stick a few samples on it and make your own decision and I can guarantee you will be happy with your decision cos you picked it :D

p.s. why is it always 'Mine is bigger than yours so mine is better'

Bigger ain't necessarily better regarding the size of a TV and has nothing to do with the quality of the image produced. It's the build quality of the TV and the other components in the setup used to display the image that are more important factors

e.g. A 32" Sony TV with DRC could display a far better image than a 36" Schneider TV

[candsh]

I jump in this conversation with reservation since I have stated in the past and maintain to this date that: If you want quality pictures from your back-ups, show it through a quality system first and then cut all the un-necessary junk out of the DVD's you produce. I get sick of reading about making huge 3-4 hr back-ups and trying to keep all the other JUNK on the original disk. I can hear them now "come on over doll and lets watch all these hot trailers and menus and director's comments I've got". Yeah ! Sure!
Using DVDShrink, I was challenged to make back-ups of the LONG movies. Showing them on an 8' image the results were The Patriot (Perfect) The Gladiator (Perfect), The Green Mile (perfect) and then the gauntlet was laid down again for the Matrix. The result was once again (Perfect) and if these Big Mamma's aren't going to come apart at 8' you should have nothing to worry about on those 35 to 65 inch "small screens".
As good as my High Definition projector is though, I still feel the heart of my system is my Pioneeer, progressive scan DVD Player.
I try to use DVD Shrink for everything sometimes use DVD2One. Took CCE off my computer. Tried IC one time and got rid of it. Enjoy the conversations, don't join in much, but, then, I am perfectly happy with what I have and what does.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by candsh
Using DVDShrink, I was challenged to make back-ups of the LONG movies. Showing them on an 8' image the results were The Patriot (Perfect) The Gladiator (Perfect), The Green Mile (perfect) and then the gauntlet was laid down again for the Matrix. The result was once again (Perfect) and if these Big Mamma's aren't going to come apart at 8' you should have nothing to worry about on those 35 to 65 inch "small screens".
Perfect as in exactly the same as the original or pleasing for your eyes?

Originally posted by candsh
you should have nothing to worry about on those 35 to 65 inch "small screens".
I guess we are not worthy cos we don't have an 8' setup :rolleyes:

[geffroman]

Originally posted by MackemX
Perfect as in exactly the same as the original or pleasing for your eyes?


I guess we are not worthy cos we don't have an 8' setup :rolleyes:

Gee Wizz guys... Please stop...

MODERATOR PLEASE RETRACT AND KILL THIS COMPLETE THREAD if thats possible...

I can't believe all the NON INFORMATION AND BS THIS STARTED...

I'll do my own testing and I will NOT post my results because members junior and senior have acted like brats in this thread... even people I have had respect and appreciation for in the past...

Regards... Jeff

[snidely]

I'm sorry, Jeff, but you are your own worst enemy.

But let me also say NO NEED TO TRASH A PRODUCT OR TELL ME WHICH ONE YOU HAVE AN EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TO...

Just in case you are not aware, the use of solid caps = YELLING! This is not a good thing to do before you get even one reply. This statement assumes that you are going to be flooded with useless answers, yet you didn't give anyone a chance first.

Has anyone tested the same movie on both SHRINK & IC and displayed it via a QUALITY 36 TO 40 INCH TUBE Television in progessive mode(preferably XBR level - Projection, Tiny college TV and low end 35 inchers need not reply !)

Now you talk down your potential respondants, once again before anyone has had a chance to post.

BUT PLEASE... AGAIN... DON'T JUST CHIME IN WITH AN UNTESTED OPINION CAUSE YOU LOVE ONE SOFTWARE OR THE OTHER... Especially if you watch your result on a $49 Apex and a 20 inch hand me down...

Then you conclude by yelling once again and following it with another put down, as if we are all so dense that we didn't understand the first time...very diplomatic of you.

No... because your were rude, snotty and offered NOTHING of value.

Now, instead of issuing a public apology, as you should have done, you instead choose to insult papillon, who really was nowhere near as rude and obnoxious as you.

No offense was meant to edgy people that wanted to post and felt put off because I was specific in my question... In truth I was thankful and appreciative and SPECIFIC about what I was looking for because I am sure that the combined talent pool on this forum knows the answer to my question...

Woohoo, you almost said those magic words "I'm sorry", and at this point people actually began to give you serious answers.

Gee Wizz guys... Please stop...

MODERATOR PLEASE RETRACT AND KILL THIS COMPLETE THREAD if thats possible...

I can't believe all the NON INFORMATION AND BS THIS STARTED...

I'll do my own testing and I will NOT post my results because members junior and senior have acted like brats in this thread... even people I have had respect and appreciation for in the past...

And then the old Jeff rears his ugly side once again, and after several of us had offered honest help, despite your tactless manner.

You are right, please do your own testing and punish us all by not sharing your results. After all, we deserve what we get, don't we? :rolleyes:

[Deviant]

This is a useless post but I agree with snidely :D .....that must irritate you.....good. :D

[mpucoder]

And so it ends as predicted.

Hopefully everyone sees why rule #12 is there. Asking "what's best" (or better) on a subjective matter always produces disagreement.

MackemX is so tired of this line of question he placed the answer in his sig, which bears repeating here. "In the end it's a matter of individual perception and the level of quality delivered by the playback system"